Hey folks,

My first post - here goes. My husband of nine years and I been having problems for some time. For about three or four years Ive felt he likes to go out with friends at least ten times better than to spend time with me. Two years ago his good friend died and since then he has spent even more of his free time with their other mutual friends. Also his friends family, which I dont mind, if he spends some time with me too. I have in the past used very inneffective methods to solve this, first I wouldnt raise it forcefully enough then I would go completely overboard with an angry outburst filled with selfish demands.
The last one of these was just before Christmas when I was pretty drunk. I dont remember it, I hurt him very badly saying inexcusable things (untrue things) and he nearly left me.
It was around then I found the website and have been applying the principles since then. Taking the love busters out of my own actions has slowly improved our relationship (but it is glacial slow). Th independent behaviour stuff I am getting nowhere with. He is only slightly less huffy with me and still thinks if we go out and have a good time I will end up screaming at him (like the last time). He will go very reluctantly with me to the odd film or meal but its drive there drive straight back one hour later. Most of my weekends are spent alone. If his friends call he's straight off, whereas I have to book him two weeks in advance, then he will probably cancel on me (hes sick a lot!) IB was a cornerstone of our marriage that we both believed in and I indulged in it plenty until all the women we knew had kids, but he still went out the guys.

Welcome to MB, indiegirl.

Are you legally married? Do you have any kids? Has either of you been married before? How old are you both?

Yes married in 2002. No kids, each other's first love. Hes 34 im 33

Just realised I havent actually asked a question! I suppose what Im wondering is do I push the issue? I bring it up a lot, but have been trying to be less demanding.
Its very very hard!

So indie, it sounds like you've done a lot of growing and changing. I think a lot of times we used to yell because we mistakenly thought our partners would not take us seriously unless we did. But now you've gotten rid of those lovebusters, awesome! So how do you communicate to him effectively that this isn't working for you, the lack of time together, and while you were willing to go the extra mile in planning and stuff, you see maybe he isn't enjoying the things you pick, you guys drive straight home. So you need some help. Today is Sunday. How about you two plan one nice thing for Saturday and one for Sunday?

IB is a tough one, especially if you two are used to drinking to the point that you don't remember what happened the next day. Have you read the articles on IB and what to do about it?

Yes, but I am having real trouble even approaching POJA. He is very very withdrawn from me. For example we havent had sex since this incident at christmas, or kissed even. Although forehead kisses and hugs are just making a comeback. Hes ultra sensative to criticism (the drunken rant was pretty much all criticism and I guess some of it was true to have hit him so hard) He sees me asking him to spend time with him as criticism.

Weekends are a sore point because a lot of it is taken up with him playing golf, watching sport, he goes to his godsons football practice too sun mornings. It drives me mad becauseI work hard all week - I want some time with my husband at the weekend...

Having come back from practice, hes said he will finally take care of some dishes that Ive asked him (nicely) to take care of for a few days now. He says hes too tired to do anything this afternoon after that but nap. Hes agreed to babysit for his friends kids later (the friend who died). I asked could I babysit with him but he said he would probably be too tired for me to be with him! Its one of those where I could twist his arm but whats the point in that? When we go out places I usually insist on his choosing, to get over the whole 'drive straight back thing' but thats not working. He just does not relish my company at the moment.

He has agreed that we 'should do something fun' when he knows what his shifts are in work for next week. His tone of voice is a lot more upbeat than it has been in past months when he agreed. Im sceptical though.

The drinking isnt really an issue for us, it was sort of a one off. That night had been the first night hed really made an effort to plan something for us and we were doing something fun. He kept making comments though about how wed prob break up and then he said he hadnt really wanted to be out on a date with me a bit later on. It made me feel shaken, I took a drink, the drink took a drink and the drink took me. It mad me see Im not so calm about things as I thought I had been, so I went googling for help!

Welcome, indiegirl. A few questions, if I may:

Is it possible that your H is having an affair? Have you investigated that possibility? I don't mean asking him, I mean quietly snooping to rule it out (without his knowledge.) I ask because there are a lot of red flags in your story, the main one being
This sounds very 'off' to me. He's too tired to do anything but nap around you, but he's going to go babysit later? Is babysitting something your H would have done in the past? What is the story with the widow of his friend?

And this:

HUH? This makes no sense at all. If he has to 'babysit' and he's 'tired' wouldn't he welcome the extra help?

I think you need to do some industrial-grade snooping, indie. WITHOUT YOUR H'S KNOWLEDGE. Do you need suggestions on how to do that?

Also, don't let him know you're spending time on this site right now. We have tools on here for killing affairs, and it wouldn't be good for him to see them.

I know what you're saying, but that's not it. I always know where he is, what bar, house, sportsfield he's at and if I drop by he's always where he says he is. He is using these places to avoid me though.

Friends widow is a good friend to us both (one of my oldest friends) She is not too pleased with his behaviour towards me at the moment. She has been unhappy with my behaviour in the past, told me so and gave me good advice.

It is 'off' and it isnt strictly truthful that hes tired. He is tired but the reason he doesnt want to be around me is because hes in withdrawal. Actually I think he is emotionally tired.

I should add that he told me last summer he didnt want children, causing major sds and djs in my response to that total bombshell. (as I do want them and we had talked extensively about having them) Weve talked about it more calmly since and he says he 'wants to want them' but just doesnt, so is spendng more time aorund kids to encourage himself. Not with me though, hes very resistant to that. He also is a lot more involved in his friends kids lives in the past, because they remind him of them an it makes him feel closer to his friend. So babysitting is failry new, the past few years hes been doing it on the odd occasion

You've indicated nothing here that would preclude an affair. Including Especially that the widow is a friend of you both. Look, you had a drunken outburst. That happened HALF A YEAR AGO. That is not what's driving this 'withdrawal' you're talking about.

I would very strongly suggest you do some serious snooping.

You didn't answer my question: is it normal for your H to babysit for people? When did he start babysitting?

[/quote]

I would very strongly suggest you do some serious snooping. [/quote]

I have been snooping quite a lot, just to get a better glimpse inside his head. His internet history, emails, phone bills, checking he is where he says he is, not found anything to suggest affair.

And the babysitting?

Started mostly after we had the talk about children. He said he would try to want them more than he does. Said he wanted to spend more time around them to see how he liked it.

Hes just left to go babysitting. Before he left, I didnt say anything to him but he said he might call me to go over if he wants company later, but that he might not if hes watching sport. He said he wants to try getting them to bed by himself 'because its a learning curve for him'. Im considering dropping by.

This reeks. Just reeks, indiegirl. I would definitely plan to mosey on over there in a bit. Without telling him that you're coming!! Show up with a pizza or something. Tell him you wanted dinner/lunch/whatever and you wanted to share it with him. Ask him how the learning curve thingy (not in those words) is going.

JUST SHOW UP UNANNOUNCED.

I was planning on it, but unsure, so thanks. It hasn't gone too badly when Ive dropped by in the past, so why not? I have a book to return to our friends house anyway...

Think back, indie. Did this conversation take place after his friend died, or before? Does he have a habit of babysitting for all of his friends? How often does he babysit for this widow? Did he babysit those children before his friend died?

More questions, sorry: where did the widow go, that he has to babysit her children? Do you know how long she's going to be gone? I would wait to go over there for a few hours. I'm confused about the business of putting them to bed - is it evening where you are? If that's the case, give him time to put them to bed and then head over. You need to time it so that she would logically still be gone. You don't want to walk in and see them standing in the kitchen with a "Oh, HI, indiegirl! I just got home! How've you been?" from the widow. KWIM?

Yes its evening - we're in the UK. She has a cousin's birthday party to go to ( I know other people goign to same party, its likely to be a late night)Catching her 'not going' isnt really a concern. Shes very close to her cousin and it would be extrememly odd and talked about if she didnt go.

He (or I) dont really babysit for anyone else, though we would. Our other friends are two parent families and arent struggling. I help out, so does he, so does another close friend of ours. She only has her parents to help her, they do a lot through the week while she works, so she needs more of a hand for nights out.

The kids discussion took place seriously a year after the friend died

However he had tried to bring it up a year before his death and I shot him down. It went something like Him - 'I think weve gone past the point where we'd have kids' Me - Er no we are having them, no discussion'.

Not proud of that.

So I stopped by.

He was there alone, had just put the kids to bed. I came in, asked how he was doing, put the book on the coffee table. He said he had just tried to call me, I said why, do you need company? He said no, he was planning on staying by himself and just watching TV. He said was I ok, he must have asked me if I was ok five times. I said yes and that he seemed worried and why. He wouldn't really tell me why, so I just said I would see him later.