I found this neat little book today. I see where a lot of this applies to the FIGHT FOR OUR MARRIAGES...

What do you think?

pp. 14-16

Warfare is the Tao of deception.
Thus:
Although you are capable, display incapability.
When committed to employing your forces, feign inactivity.
When your objective is nearby, make it appear distant; when distant, create the illusion of being nearby.
Display profits to entice them.
Create disorder in their forces and take them.
If they are substantial, prepare for them.
If they are strong, avoid them.
If they are angry, perturb them.
Be deferential to foster their arrogance.
If they are rested, force them to exert themselves.
If they are united, cause them to be separated.
Attack where they are unprepared.
Go forth where they will not expect it.
These are the ways military strategists are victorious. They cannot be spoken of in advance.

I picked up this book some time ago, too.

I like the one on Intelligence:

"Never speculate about your opponent; always seek facts.
Don't listen to rumors, seek information from those who know.
Check out the truth of everything before moving.
For if you have sought lies, you have sought failure."

And especially this one...

"Those who are afraid retreat.
Those who are brave grow greater.
Never fear, always grow."

Thanks Mimi for reminding me of this little gem !

Great, Brownhair! This book holds a wealth of info, doesn't it?

Check this out:

Only someone who lacks strategic PLANNING and slights an enemy will inevitably be captured by others.

Gosh, guys. You have no idea how helpful this is right now.

"Warfare is the Tao of deception."

Although that might be useful for a war and for other practices in human life, I'd say that deception is not an appropriate tactic, even in the midst of infidelity.

After all, it's one of the main problems with the affair in the first place. It grew in a place of secrecy and lies.

I do like many of the other things The Art of War says. I'm just not a fan of marital deceit.

"To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself."

.... this is such an interesting book ....

Mimi, I went out & bought it today based on your thread.

There are so many different translations available !!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Which one do you have Mimi?

Thanks Mimi ... the "enemy" is not our WS, the enemy is the affair !

It is a war if you want to kill the affair.

Pep

Thanks, Pep..

I'm going to look for another translation tomorrow...

My translation does not seem as easy to understand as the one that you and Brownhair have quoted...

I do love this book, though...

Can be applied to a lot of different situations...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just J,

I partially disagree. Deception to the courts and soceity in your pursuits of surviving, overcoming and battling infidelity is NOT recommended as it is a disservice to yourself and your integrity. However, in the war on infidelity deception can play a vital role.

examples:

1. The 180 plan. Making it appear by deception that you the betrayed spouse are happy, looking good and going out for fun and good times. At times even giving the impression you MAY be dating...making the WS feel jealous or out of control. Being vague (deception by misrepresentation) about your plans is a good one too.

2. I told my WW last spring approximately how much she spent on average the last three years. Of course, I deliberately exaggerated the numbers cause I knew she would pass the information along to OM. I deceitfully attacked his insecurities of being low income and unable to afford my wife.

3. I told my WW last spring an approximation of what she'd get if she divorced me knowing again she'd pass that information along to OM. I deceiptfully and grossfully underestimated the amount thereby disillusioning OM of the notion that he may be "stealing away" my wife AND my/our money. He'd thought he had hit the jackpot.

4. I deceiptfully relied upon my understanding and knowledge of my wife and her inclination to pass those "secrets" along to OM. In fact, I listened in while I deceiptfully tape recorded her conversations with OM.


In the end, OM (who was single) got the hint and moved on to greener pastures. He got married to some other local single girl within 2 or 3 months of ending it with my wife.

All is fair in love and war. No difference. Be an honorable member of soceity, be empathetic and humane but the infidels deserve no such respect until they end their evil ways. Sometimes saving your spouse from eternal damnation requires one to get their hands dirty from time to time.

I'd do it again...too...only better.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.-Mortarman had a great post on "lying" quite some time ago. If I recall he said just avoid "lying" blantantly, but play your cards close to the chest. Be sneaky but not dishonest I think was the jest.

MASTERFUL, MR. W!!

You used THE ART OF WAR!!

I had a link...can't find it darn it...the tao of divorce...based on art of war mentality.

it was helpful when dealing with a completely unrepentant ws...when divorce was looming.

but here's my favorite parts you posted on art of war:
"If they are united, cause them to be separated.
Attack where they are unprepared.
Go forth where they will not expect it."

I think it's KEY TO KNOW IF THEY ARE UNITED...CAUSE THEM TO BE SEPARATED...and yea, a bs can help the ws and op lovebust...like mad if they're smart...use art of war techniques..like mr. w did...and how I still do! regarding exposure? attack when UNPREPARED..don't give em' a heads up! go forth? go to work place, church, wherever exposure will cause BEST AND MOST DAMAGE to the affair.

I caused so much discomfort at ow/wife's former church..the pastor (of church of thousands) called her and said "we need to talk"...and informed her of how he knew how she met my H and how it was not basically "cool" and not part of how they believe. they have NOT gone back...had to find another church as it is not an affair friendly church..in fact, before their affair marriage, I called up all the protestant denominations and told them of the affair in my area, and they had to use a RENT A MINISTER to marry them as no church would have them. how's that?

I remember a thread about a woman in plan B who tried to get her WH back.
On the advice of her counselor (whom I suspect to know some Art of War stuff) she would, when he would call her, for example say
"Oh, I'm going out this weekend."
While she actually stayed at home.
She made him think there was someone else in the picture, but very, very vaguely and in a ladylike manner, just enough to get WH interested.
And aha... it worked!
Now that is deception used to vanquish.. fog.

Pep and Brownhair:

What translations do you two have?

I'm trying to search out a better one for me at B&N or Amazon.

Thanks.

Classic-this book is!! Great idea to apply to an A!

And some of you may find the Tao Te Ching, by Lao Tzu, very applicable to "personal recovery" and Plan A for a BS.

Translations should be available with full text on-line for free. It is a very old book (I think written in 530 B.C.)

paperback (227 pages total)

barnes & noble classics

edited with an intro by dallas galvin

translated by lionel giles

~~~~~~~~~~~

web sites mentioned in the back of the book

buisness >>> belisarius.com

"best site for newly minted aficionados" >>> Sonshi.com

d-n-i.net >>> "It devotes considerable space to the work of legendary pilot Col John Boyd who developed 3 influental mathematically coherent combat theories .... and the system refered to by the acronym OODA (observe, orient, decide, act) <<< I LOVE THIS !!!

I can see why you would disagree, MrWondering. It is certainly possible that your "deceptions" could lead to recovery. And yet...

1. The 180 plan. Making it appear by deception that you the betrayed spouse are happy, looking good and going out for fun and good times.

Why not just BE happy, looking good, and going out for fun and good times? I always encourage people to do this. And it's a whole lot more convincing when it's genuine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

At times even giving the impression you MAY be dating...making the WS feel jealous or out of control. Being vague (deception by misrepresentation) about your plans is a good one too.

This part is problematic. A jealous or out-of-control WS may certainly turn around and head toward what he or she was once running away from. What it does not do is get the WS grounded in an ethical place -- and that leaves the cycle of push-pull craziness to continue.

2. I told my WW last spring approximately how much she spent on average the last three years. Of course, I deliberately exaggerated the numbers cause I knew she would pass the information along to OM. I deceitfully attacked his insecurities of being low income and unable to afford my wife.

3. I told my WW last spring an approximation of what she'd get if she divorced me knowing again she'd pass that information along to OM. I deceiptfully and grossfully underestimated the amount thereby disillusioning OM of the notion that he may be "stealing away" my wife AND my/our money. He'd thought he had hit the jackpot.

The trouble with something like this is that now MrsWondering has grounds to doubt your word -- and your own integrity is harmed by the lie. Sometimes a lie is critical. I would lie through my teeth and be happy to do it if it kept my daughter safe. And yet I would also know that it would leave a lingering darkness (perhaps a small one, perhaps not) that I would have to pay for.

If I were MrsWondering, I would probably take steps to ensure that from now on I had detailed and accurate knowledge of all of the monetary transactions of the household. I would also permanently suspect that you were hiding things -- and I would very likely put in place safety measures to make sure that your distrust and deceit did not harm me.

4. I deceiptfully relied upon my understanding and knowledge of my wife and her inclination to pass those "secrets" along to OM. In fact, I listened in while I deceiptfully tape recorded her conversations with OM.

The trouble with listening in is that although it gives you information, it also allows you to obsess about what your wife is doing rather than detaching from the insanity and getting on with your life. I did it -- probably all BSs do it -- and that doesn't necessarily make it healthy.

All is fair in love and war. No difference. Be an honorable member of soceity, be empathetic and humane but the infidels deserve no such respect until they end their evil ways. Sometimes saving your spouse from eternal damnation requires one to get their hands dirty from time to time.

There are Geneva conventions for a reason. All is not fair in war -- and I believe the same is true of love. A betrayed spouse needs to know, I think, that he or she did everything possible to end the affair. However, to say that some particular group of people -- infidels, in this case -- do not deserve respect? That's giving yourself permission to treat that person without the basic dignity and respect that every human deserves. Permission to lose compassion and to view that person as "less than" you.

What happens when you set that aside? Depends on how far you set it aside. It is not unreasonable to worry about physical harm. It's not unreasonable to worry about emotional, sexual, or verbal abuse.

I'd do it again...too...only better.

I'm sure you would. I'd say, though, that being grounded and certain in your actions -- being clear and unequivocal with MrsWondering about the consequences of her actions -- would leave your integrity more intact.

p.s.-Mortarman had a great post on "lying" quite some time ago. If I recall he said just avoid "lying" blantantly, but play your cards close to the chest. Be sneaky but not dishonest I think was the jest.

There's a difference between keeping things to yourself while you prepare and being deceptive. There was a period of time when I had to decide whether to enter a precedent-setting court case that would have determined whether I have the legal right to be my daughter's mom.

My ex, you see, filed a court case to deny me that right. And in my case, there is not one similar court case. Or there weren't at the time. Now there have been a couple, though not in my state.

My ex, understandably, put extreme pressure on me to say what I was going to do. My attorney gave me great advice, which I crafted into the following phrase. "I'm looking for solutions. I believe that the best solution for our daughter includes having her parents cooperate, having her spend lots of time with both her parents, and having her relationship with both her parents legally protected. I don't yet see how to combine those things. I'm still considering my options."

Absolutely true. And it gave away only the things that were most important. I think I probably said it 50 times over the course of that godawful three months.

It was not until I got grounded and clear in my intent, and until I -stopped- the manipulative tactics, that I began to be able to take clear and unequivocal action to truly protect my daughter. Before that, my attempts at deception deceived no one. Afterwards, I had no need for them. I much prefer working with people to get to the "afterward" part than to encourage them to use deception beforehand.

My DD is watching me type this (at 3, she can't yet read at this level, though she does read "See Spot! Funny, funny Spot!") and she wants me to add these:

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Force is the control of the balance of power, in accordance with advantages.

In Plan A ... the BS restores their power to affect change. Plan A gives the BS an advantage with their intimate knowledge of their spouse's ENs.

Warfare is the Way of deception.

Deception meaning .... showing more strength than you might possess at that given time ! Hiding your weaknesses. Plan A ... not begging, crying, pleading ... standing tall and presenting a self ready to battle & fight for the marriage.

Therefore, if able, appear unable,

Plan A ... let your WS provide you with things that save your energy for future need.

if active, appear not active,

When snooping about like a squirrel searching for seeds of the affair, appear calm & serene ... Plan A snooping is done quietly & without announcing >>> "Ah-Ha ... Look what I found !". Be stealth.

if near, appear far,

Plan A ... keep your WS guessing where you are.

if far, appear near.

What seems just out of reach is sometimes more attractive. What seems a sure thing, is taken for granted.

If they have advantage, entice them;

Offer the WS goodies ... as in meet their ENs.

if they are confused, take them,

Plan A is confusing to the WS. They would prefer the BS appear ugly & unattractive in order to justify their cheating. It is confusing for the WS to see an attractive BS.

if they are substantial, prepare for them,

Plan A ... get all your ducks lined up. Legal preparations. Financial preparations. Spiritual preparations. Etc.

if they are strong, avoid them,

Plan A is not plan doormat. They can wipe their feet elsewhere, but not on your back. Accepting abuse is not an attractive trait.

if they are angry, disturb them,

LOL .... this is precicely Orchid's "reverse babble" .... The WS speaks with foggy tongue, disturb them with O's reverse babble.

if they are humble, make them haughty,

If the WS is over-confident, they become sloppy & make errors.

if they are relaxed, toil them,

Keeping an affair going is exhausting to the WS. It's like a juggling act. Throw the WS another ball to keep in the air. The affair will fall when the juggler becomes exhausted by the added effort.

if they are united, separate them.

Do not become the fool that encourages both the WS and the OP to join forces. If you act insane during Plan A, they have a common enemy to fight ~~~> YOU !

Attack where they are not prepared, go out to where they do not expect.

Do the UNexpected in Plan A. Keep the WS guessing & wondering.

This specialized warfare leads to victory, and may not be transmitted beforehand.

Do not give away your plans.... do not show the WS your books. Do not invite the WS to this site. Stealth.

Before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will win, because many calculations were made

Plan ... you must have a Plan or you will suffer & be defeated.

before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will not win, because few calculations were made

Don't waste time flailing about .... get organized & recruit helpers.

many calculations, victory, few calculations, no victory, then how much less so when no calculations

Do not proceed by your feelings alone. Develop your plan.

By means of these, I can observe them, beholding victory or defeat!

The BS who refuse to develop & follow a plan, are most likely to fail.

I LOVE THIS!!

I got my B&N Translation yesterday but left it at home...

Stay posted for my continued discussion with you...

ONWARD, SOLDIERS!!!!

Don't hint at D-day and allow them time to think and prepare for the onslaught of questions. If they KNOW you know but not exactly what you know don't give them exactly what you know...deceive them that you know EVERYTHING. I call it cresting the wayward wall of denial.

D-day should occur in person and when the wayward is unlikely to remove themselves from the situation. No distractions should be present and hopefully NO ACCESS to the OP. If your snooping reveals OP is going to be unavailable on Wednesday night from 6 to midnight, then have your d-day then. Another good place to have D-day is in the car with the BS driving. WS will not jump from the vehicle and MUST communicate.

Also, the wayward wall of denial must often be broken down with deception. The art of giving the perception you know all without really giving up what or how you know is important. For example, I was able to retrieve a couple of text messages to OM off Mrs.W's phone. I was also monitoring her email and eventually using the digital recorder. However, I convinced Mrs. W on D-day that I had obtained ALL of their text messages from the prior month directly from Verizon. I gave her the details of only the ones I saw on her phone and a couple of the ones that made it to her secret email account (they sometimes texted each other from the computer and the entire thread would often appear). I gave enough detail to make Mrs.W believe I had ALL the text messages even though this was not the case. I caught her off guard. If I had revealled this earlier to her by phone or in passing a little at a time perhaps she (and/or OM) could have discovered that I would not have been able to get such from Verizon. They would have plotted together to maintain the denials at all cost as technically I didn't and couldn't have actually SEEN them together. They could have thought out a ploy to say they knew I was watching and lied in the text messages to play with my mind. Instead, I caught her/them off-guard. I did not need to reveal ALL the information I had to convince her. My then current snooping techniques remained in place, unsuspected AND on top of that I cut off the text messages between them as they believed from then on that I could see all that was written.

I also played the Private Investigator ploy. I found out what color and make car he drove directly from her several days before d-day. Her initial physical contact was undertaken at a hotel near her parents home (750 miles away from me). I found the hotel receipt in one of her bags (waywards really make silly mistakes). I told her on D-day that I hired a PI and he followed OM to the mall where her credit card receipts indicated she was just minutes before checking into the hotel (Victoria Secret no less). My snooping had already confirmed that he met her at the mall prior to going to the hotel. So I laid out the PI followed his black ford whatever license plate abc 13 (another lie) to the ______ shopping mall then over to the xyz hotel where they were seen checking into together. The car stayed until x:xx am (the time I knew he left for work).

None of it was true, but it worked. It took hours but once I broke down the wayward wall of denial...we could really start focusing on the problem (her and the affair) instead of the avoiding, manipulations, blame shifting, and denials (we are "just freinds" crap). Mrs.W loves to talk (as evidenced by the length of her posts lol)....from that day forward I was able to discuss our relationship and her affair pretty openly and honestly without LB's. I was on the inside trying to work OUR way out. I drew her into intimacy with my friendship, love, empathy, and understanding. That part was not feigned nor was it easy. Thank God for MB which I found just a week or 10 days after D-day.

Moral of the story: Be prepared, be sneaky, and catch the Wayward spouse off-guard, unsuspecting and unprepared.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- Another thing I did. I don't know if it comes from this book but I think it may. The adage:

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer"

Mrs.W and OM would occassionally talk on the phone right in front of me. I occassionally demonstrated reasonable and understandable anger and frustration at such; however, occassionally I did not. Their conversations in front of me were designed by them to be of a "we're just friends" nature so I would join in the banter. I would engage the infidels in a three way conversation to frustrate THEM, to divide THEM. I don't recall anything I actually said. I just was delivering the message to OM that I was there and he was NOT. (remember OM was 750 miles away). OM no longer had unfettered access to my wife.

I looked at this site today...

[color:"red"]"best site for newly minted aficionados" >>> Sonshi.com [/color]

it's pretty neat ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Ponder and deliberate before you make a move.

Disciplined and calm, to await the appearance of disorder and hubbub amongst the enemy: this is the art of retaining self-possession.

Do not swallow a bait offered by the enemy.

SUCH IS THE ART OF WARFARE.