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Well, I have to make this short and sweet as I have been known to be long winded.
H and I have been together for almost 18yrs married for 12. I was his first anything. I had BFs in the past but nothing passed kissing.
We have 2 Sons 6 and 9. He works in an office Mon-Fri 9-530 and i work a PT job wed,thurs nights and sat and sundays during the day. He goes out with friends every Friday or Saturday night.

2 Years ago i received a call from a girl at his work that told me that he was making a fool out of me at work and that he was carrying on a relationship with OW at work, going on lunches with her and leaving work early to hang out. I called him he came home and said that nothing was happening they were "just friends".
There were a few incidents of lies about calling her and i even found him at her appt when he said he was going to be some place else. He told me they weren't having an affair but i believe it was emotional.

He is a very closed off person and he says that he has never talked to her about us or our problems at all. I have talked to her 3 times and the last time she actually annoyed me to the point that i wanted to hit her. I of course did not.

2 months ago on our 12th wedding anniversary my H gave me the ILYBINILWY line. I asked him if he thought about leaving and he said yes. I didn't rage or cry on the outside instead i calmly talked to him about what would happen when he left(welfare, sell house, kids lose school friends, etc.) We have agreed that since he couldn't leave by Nov 1st that he would have to stay in the house till February so the kids wouldn't remember xmas or our younger son's bday as the day daddy left. Emotionally it has been really hard for me but i have been getting through it.

He informed me a month ago that he is moving out in February and to noone's surprise he is moving into her "extra bedroom".

Last night, we were out at pool league when the owner of the bar asked me what was going on and I said things seemed to be getting better. She said, "but he isn't wearing his wedding ring" I burst into tears. I hadn't even noticed. I asked him when he took it off and he said a week ago. Then i asked y he hadn't told me and he said he thought i would have noticed by then. He said he had been keeping it in his pocket so he wouldn't lose it. I asked for it back and have placed it in a safe place.

How do I go about exposing an EA to my list of people? I have told my family and friends. How do I tell ppl at his work, since they do work together and actually sit beside each other all day long every day?
He doesn't really talk to his relatives and he has very few friends (4) who all work with him and don't know me at all.
Been attempting to do Plan A without even realizing it for 3 weeks and thought things were getting better. I expressed that to him and he said "yea because I was treating you like a friend." My response was, "Sometimes you treat me worse" and he said "that's cuz I know you." My heart is just breaking over and over again but I m keeping it together.
Any replies to this topic will help laugh

Last edited by Revera; 02/28/10 08:48 PM. Reason: title change
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Hey cowgirl, welcome to MB, I am so sorry you have to be here.

I am equally sorry to have to tell you it is a PA. There is no way it would have gone on this long without sexual activity. The fact he is planning on moving in with her sets off redflag too.

So far he is behaving according to script. The fact he is still living at home is a huge bonus for you, it means you can really knuckle down on a tight plan A. Then when/if he moves out you will be able to go into a solid plan B.

Have you read the articles, 10 basic facts and much on the forums? DO you realise your about to do some of the hardest work ever!

Dont worry about being long winded, we love detail, it helps us help you. And I love your name BTW, I am a dairy farmer, so am a sort of cow girl too


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The next thing we need to address is snooping. Yes it is an actual requirement. Many an A has fallen by evidence uncovered by a savvy snooping spouse. It also gives extra oomph to exposure when your not just saying "my WS is having an affair", but "WS is having an affair and here are the facts and details..."

I stole this from holyhearts thread...
Originally Posted By: holyheart
If I had advice for Newbies, that's what it would be. Don't wait until after the WS leaves or even when they say that the A is over. SPY, SNOOP and INVESTIGATE right from the get-go. And do not give up your sources. And do not... do not... spill the secrets you find until you absolutely have to. And nothing is off-limits because you never, never know when you may need the info. Photos, receipts, ticket stubs -- whatever. They may not make any sense at the beginning, but they will when you have to start putting the puzzle together. Keep a calendar, too, so you can reconcile credit card transactions with what was going on that day. Thankfully, I keep my purse calendars each year and I alway wrote when D!ck would be out of town and the reason.


there is a syping thread on here, I'll look for and bump for you.


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I agree, it's a physical affair.
You need to expose this affair *yesterday*.

Here is some info on exposure; just change the gender to suit your own situation. I will say that with the affair this entrenched and the plans already in place for him to move in with OW he may just go ahead and move out. So be prepared for that.

--Exposure targets
Anyone with influence over your WS or the marriage. WS' parents, siblings, best friend, children if they're over 4. OP's siblings, parents, spouse. Your priest or similar if you're religious. Their employer if they work together. Work exposure should be done *in writing* to the head of HR, the CEO, and WS' boss. All of them should know the others were copied; this makes it harder for them to toss the letter into the trash and forget about it.

--Exposure message
Use a formal letter for work exposure. Everything else is short and sweet: "OP and WS are having an affair. I love WS and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I'd appreciate any advice you might have." The exposure message is not vengeful; it is a message of love.

--No warning
Do NOT threaten to expose, do not tell her you're going to expose. Just do it. If she has advance warning, she will tell her friends and family "We are having trouble in our marriage. H is controlling and angry. He won't talk to me, he won't listen to me. He is possessive and jealous, and he accuses me of insane things. Sometimes I'm scared for my physical well-being, he's changed that much. Thank goodness I have friends to talk to, otherwise I don't think I could bear the abuse. OM has been especially helpful in offering insights into how a man would see things. I just hope we can make it but I'm not sure we can." How do you think your exposure is going to sound after an oscar winning performance like that?

--Exposure after-effects
Your WS is going to be furious. You will hear predictable things like "I can never trust you again. I was going to dump OP and reconcile but you've blown any chance of that. I hate you. I'm filing for D." Don't EVEN pay attention to this stuff. Your WS is just angry because the super-fun super-secret affair is suddenly looking downright tawdry and the fun is turning into a nightmare. Just ignore most of it. If your WS tries to talk about divorce, say "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." Then change the subject. If your WS tries to pick a fight, tell them you'd very much like to discuss things when you can both be calm and rational, and leave the room if you have to. If she says things like "How could you do this?!" tell her you'll do whatever it takes to save your marriage.

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A sample exposure letter, written by Brit's Brat, a MB member and corporate attorney:

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS

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Thanx for the great advice so far. I have snooped in the past and actually found some very interesting things and he got really good at hiding. I have thought about going to where he works and sit outside and wait to see if they come out together and follow them to see what happens.
I have also thought about going to their work one Sunday afternoon and follow her home from work and then the next time that he says he is going to another friend's house I am going to go to her house and see if he is there instead. Is that too much?

As far as the work thing, I dunno if it is against any of their policies because they are just co-workers and I know that they allow married couples to work there. I think I am going to call his mother and sister although he doesn't talk to them so I don't know how that will help. His bestfriend at the moment is her and he only has two other friends who happen to work at his work so I only know his their first names.

I asked him on Monday what he was going to tell people when he leaves and he said "I will say that we seperated and it was mutual." I was a little upset and i said "But that would be a lie." and his response was "I don't tell anyone my personal business"

I know I am going to have a lot of work ahead of me and I also know that he is going to leave. He may even leave earlier once he finds out what I am about to do (telling his work about this).

Thanx and keep it coming I have a feeling I am going to need a lot of this. I have a lot of friends but none have gone through this and come out together on the other end. And all of them have told me the "Kick him out now" "Why are you letting him walk all over you by staying there" I know they are trying to help but they don't know what I really need.


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DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
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Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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Originally Posted By: cowqueen
Thanx for the great advice so far. I have snooped in the past and actually found some very interesting things and he got really good at hiding. I have thought about going to where he works and sit outside and wait to see if they come out together and follow them to see what happens.
I have also thought about going to their work one Sunday afternoon and follow her home from work and then the next time that he says he is going to another friend's house I am going to go to her house and see if he is there instead. Is that too much?

As far as the work thing, I dunno if it is against any of their policies because they are just co-workers and I know that they allow married couples to work there. I think I am going to call his mother and sister although he doesn't talk to them so I don't know how that will help. His bestfriend at the moment is her and he only has two other friends who happen to work at his work so I only know his their first names.

I asked him on Monday what he was going to tell people when he leaves and he said "I will say that we seperated and it was mutual." I was a little upset and i said "But that would be a lie." and his response was "I don't tell anyone my personal business"

I know I am going to have a lot of work ahead of me and I also know that he is going to leave. He may even leave earlier once he finds out what I am about to do (telling his work about this).

Thanx and keep it coming I have a feeling I am going to need a lot of this. I have a lot of friends but none have gone through this and come out together on the other end. And all of them have told me the "Kick him out now" "Why are you letting him walk all over you by staying there" I know they are trying to help but they don't know what I really need.


Aaagghhh, Waywards! rant2 Cowqueen, you need to get to work. Snoop, snoop, snoop. Start collecting your info and be ready to use it to expose this mess. Yes, it's PA, not EA, and you'll find things - doesn't matter how much he tries to hide it. Check cell phone records, checking accounts, debit & credit card transactions, document everything.

As far as their job goes - no company owner wants to get a certified letter stating that two employees are screwing around and using company resources to do it. Especially when the letter references a possible sexual harassment charge - instant rash for a company owner. They'll have to respond to a letter that says that. Especially if you copy the letter to more than one higher-up (exp: President, Vice-President, HR person, company attorney, etc.)
Expose to everyone you can think of who could lend any support to you as far as ending the A. Family, friends, co-workers, etc.
Plan A. Show him that what he has at home is ever so much better than anything else he thinks he wants.
There's more - the vets will be here shortly to add to what I've said.


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Okay, here is a bit about my snooping past. I have always been kind of a snooper. I looked at redials, and incoming calls always. I even checked mileage on the car to make sure that it equaled where he said he was going.
After I received the phone call from his work I became a super sleuth but I also couldn't hold any of the things in when I found them so he got really good at hiding. I have complete access to email and facebook accts that I know of. I have tried to determine if he had other accounts and have not found any.

We have one bank account and one credit card and I have online access to both. There is no unexplained money trails.

As far as his cell phone, I also have online access to every call made and that's how I found out he had been calling her for 9 months while I was at work. There are no unknown calls on there either.

The only thing I don't know for sure at the moment is that he goes where he says apart from work which is usually one night every 2 weeks.

He no longer brings his pay stubs home because I had approached him about the missing hours and vacation time used.

Our separation plan at the moment is that he will leave and live in her "extra bedroom" and not pay her any rent. He will continue to deposit his cheques in the account and all bills will continue to be paid as always. He will come and watch the boys in my home when I have to go to work. I haven't read much about Plan B yet but I dunno how I am going to impliment it with this arrangement which at the moment is ideal.

Since logging on to this this morning I wrote message on facebook to his mother just stating the facts and telling her that I want to work at saving this marriage and I don't expect her to choose sides as he is her son. I have also decided to write to his company and tell them but it is a large company and I don't know if I should just send one big envelope to the office he works from with smaller envelopes with the President, Vice-President, HR and Company Attorney written on them. Any advice on that would be appreciated.

As far as the snooping thing goes, I believe that I have enough evidence that something has been going on that I don't need anymore.

Thanx again

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Don't forget...expose to OW's family and friends.

OW's parents shouldn't like their precious daughter dating a married man with children. Plus, any hope your husband has of a good relationship with them one day would be OUT THE WINDOW.

Mr. W


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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I fell a little weird telling people he is having an affair when I don't have concrete proof that it has become physical. I know that you (as well as all of my RL friends) have been convinced since the beginning that it was, but I was blind to it. Even if it was EA it has gone way to far already. I am seriously sick of the lies. I am sure there will be a lot of new lies coming.

I have ordered Surviving an Affair and His Needs, Her Needs, but I have to wait for them to come in.

I don't know any of her friends and family so I don't know how that one can be accomplished.

I am not physically afraid but I am frightened as to what will be coming next. I have a lot of support and I am strong enough to get through this completely intact and better. Life is going to get hard for a while first.

My husband cried over the fact that he would be leaving the kids and I know he is going to feel extreme guilt when he lives in her house as she has a 9yr old daughter.

I do believe that it is like he has been taken over by an alien and even more than one. He doesn't even seem to remember what he said last week let alone what he says were his values 3 years ago.
I feel like the universe and fate sent me this website for a reason and I take it as a sign that I was supposed to try to save it.
In the past 3 years H sister left her husband, BOL left my sister and then my mom left my dad. All of these marriages had other issues like abuse and addiction but they all also ended in affairs. I thought we had made it but I guess it was just the beginning.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
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Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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And let him know you won't be cooperating with his easy/sleazy divorce scheme.

If he wants a divorce -- he only gets the ugly kind. No "mutual" decisions. No nice sweet co-parenting.

Let him know you will NOT be his friend if he proceeds with moving out and divorcing.

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Take $500 out of the bank and hire a PI to get access to all of OW's family. Get the names/addresses/etc. of anyone he works with (his other friends). Saving your marriage is worth the money.

Then sit down and write/call all of them in one day - including your H's siblings, cousins, and aunts and uncles. Otherwise, they'll go to those you haven't yet called, and tell them you're a crazy person and not to listen to you.

It doesn't matter what proof you have. All you have to tell people is that he is leaving you and moving into her 'spare bedroom' - and make sure you use the quote marks! They will ALL understand what's really going on.

And by all means, DO write - individually - to the president, VP, CEO, and legal department of his company. Do it individually so someone doesn't realize what you're doing and run to stop the others from being delivered.

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I know my marriage is worth any amount of money unfortunately we live absolutely pay cheque to pay cheque so there isn't 500 dollars to get at.
I told My MIL and SIL today and even one of his old best friends whom is a female he met at work and knew him until a few years ago. She may be able to get me access to the one friend from his work that I only know the first name of and I am going to contact him and the one other friend who I do know.

He doesn't talk to any of his other family, and he has no other friends.

My MIL says she won't take sides, and I told her that that wasn't what I was looking for.

My SIL (who actually cheated on her own husband and is now living with OM and has 2 kids by him) said she couldn't believe that her brother would do something like that. She said that he loves me and the boys so much she is just in shock.

I have a rough draft of the letter for his work and I will be mailing them out as soon as I get the addresses for them all.

I don't know what to expect from his workplace but I will definitely be bracing myself for the day he finds out what I did. I am doing this for the best laugh Head high and still smiling.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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Originally Posted By: cowqueen
I know my marriage is worth any amount of money unfortunately we live absolutely pay cheque to pay cheque so there isn't 500 dollars to get at.
I told My MIL and SIL today and even one of his old best friends whom is a female he met at work and knew him until a few years ago. She may be able to get me access to the one friend from his work that I only know the first name of and I am going to contact him and the one other friend who I do know.

He doesn't talk to any of his other family, and he has no other friends.

My MIL says she won't take sides, and I told her that that wasn't what I was looking for.

My SIL (who actually cheated on her own husband and is now living with OM and has 2 kids by him) said she couldn't believe that her brother would do something like that. She said that he loves me and the boys so much she is just in shock.

I have a rough draft of the letter for his work and I will be mailing them out as soon as I get the addresses for them all.

I don't know what to expect from his workplace but I will definitely be bracing myself for the day he finds out what I did. I am doing this for the best laugh Head high and still smiling.



It sounds like the workplace letter may be your best defense. And then Plan A like crazy.


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Woman, ....puh-lease.

If I waddles, eats crackers and quacks... it is a duck.
(and if it AINT a duck, let the duck explain....)

Your WH is threatening the stability of your children's home/family/life. You are smart enough to come here, you are strong enough to do this.

You have a few months, PA, PA -- until your LB can not take it anymore.

People here will help you.

God bless.


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yup


Me; W 46
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Okay, I know what I have to do is Plan A. What exactly should I and shouldn't I do while in Plan A?
I don't have my book yet and I couldn't find the info on here that detailed any guidelines. If anyone can tell me that much to start with until I get my book that would be great so I don't do further damage in the meantime laugh


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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He hasn't admitted to an affair and I don't think he ever will. How do I go about doing this the right way?
I have been kind of a crazy person for the past 2 years with jealousy and insecurities. I know that he lied to me a lot because I found out and confronted him. 2 weeks ago for the first time in our marriage, he stayed out all night and didn't call me until the morning when he had an excuse about falling asleep on his male friend's couch. Of course I knew it was a lie but I didn't get angry or even really react to it. I let him believe that I believed his story but I know deep down that it is a lie.

We don't hold hands or kiss or hug. We sleep in the same bed still but it is only sleeping. I see him looking at me sometimes and I know that he still feels something for me but it is hidden behind these other feelings. It is seriously like he is possessed.

He doesn't talk about things and he definitely doesn't want to talk about any relationship things.
We are going to have to live together until February and I know I can keep myself together in front of him until then. I have a lot of caring friends and great support.

When he leaves he will still be coming here to watch our children while I am at work so do I implement Plan B then?
I had plans that I would walk out the back door when he was here and not answer the phone when he calls for the kids. Is that what I should do?

Can someone please tell me what I am supposed to be doing in Plan A? Do I make home seem nice by doing good things like taking care of the kids fully, making dinner and generally just not bringing up anything that is painful? That's what I have been doing for 3 weeks since I found this site.

I just kind of live life like nothing is going on unless he wants to talk about something. I also make sure to show him that I am having a good time with the kids and when he plays with them he looks at me to see what I am doing and I make sure he sees me smiling.

I felt really lost and helpless before I found this site and all of the concepts and other things on here have helped so much
Thanx


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

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For Plan A, read up on Emotional Needs. Figure out what his top three are and put your efforts into meeting those. If Sexual Fulfillment (SF) and Affection (A) are in the top, those will be tough to meet with you guys living like roommates, but there are still things you can do.

If SF is a top need of his, dress to show off your best assets. Touch him lightly on the arm or leg when you talk to him. Lean over and show some cleavage. Tell him a really good dirty joke. Wear your greatest underwear.

Most guys have admiration as a top EN. Pay attention to stuff he does and admire him for it. Admiration is especially strong, IMO, when you admire him to someone else, but where he can hear it. "John grilled out Wednesday night and it was soooo good. I can't hold a candle to his cookout skills." "You should ask John about that; he's a wizard when it comes to XYZ." Or if you need help with something, ask him to help you figure it out, fix it, solve it - and then admire him for being so good at that type of thing.

Many guys have Recreational Companionship as a high EN. So do really fun stuff that you know he'd enjoy. Invite him along (don't expect him to accept). Go and have a blast. Then tell him "Oh, it was great! You would have absolutely loved it, it's a shame you didn't go" - but don't nag him about not going. Just let him know he's missing out on time with a really fun gal.

Plan A does NOT mean being a doormat and doing "anything it takes" to make him happy. If he lies, tell him matter of factly "You and I both know that's not true." then change the subject "Can I get you some tea?"

There's a thing that gets passed around here called "The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A". Hopefully someone will post it here or you'll see it on another thread. It does a good job of illustrating the balance between meeting ENs and not getting walked on.

Your strength is incredible, by the way.

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This is a summary of plan A:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


BW(me)
DDay EA 4/05
DDay PA 6/05
In recovery
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