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Merry Christmas!! The day I dreaded is almost done, however not without incident....

KaylaAndy- I don't have a recording and I don't think it would be in my best interest to give this info out to my atty or LG due to how I came across this info.

Today's incident.... DSs were with me until noon today, then WH picked them up and actually has DSs until Sunday evening as it is his visitation weekend.

DS12 and I were texting; I initiated inquiring how he was since he really didn't want to go with WH. Through our texting I discovered that after leaving our home, WH took DSs to OW's house for a couple of hours. The boys didn't even go to open presents with WH, they were going to do that later. Apparently, WH has all DSs presents/stockings at his parent's home instead of at his apt. What is up with this???

One of DS12's last texts were "we're at OW's, please don't pick us up or call dad, please don't".

I am so torn... this is such a violation of visitation... will be contacting atty's office Monday however I do believe he is out through the New Year due to recovery from surgery and the holidays. But I will leave a message.

My next concern is that WH has the boys New Years Eve 10 am through New Year's Day 10 am. If he brought the boys to OW's home today, he most certainly will have no qualms about doing this New Years Eve.

So, what to do? Do I contact WH regarding today's violation? I have held back thus far and it has been hard. Also, given his atty's comments to WH (seek counseling for boys to prepare for introduction to OW) I don't think she is aware of DS's exposure to OW by WH.

Also, what should I say to DS12, as well as DS15, DS9, regarding this situation?

Thanks.


Last edited by kateydid; 12/25/09 07:02 PM. Reason: added a question

BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Looks like you've no choice but to wait on your attorney. Your boys don't want you to raise a fuss so you're left hoping the judge will smack him down later.

It would be nice if you could get your attorney to file some kind of motion...and requesting "supervised visitation" as your WH seems unable and unwilling to respect the previous clearly written court order.

You really want your attorney to be aggressive here. He MAY want to play nice guy facilitating an amicable divorce (and divorce settlement). Trust me...that's what the typical attorney thinks is in your & your children's best interest. He won't go aggressive unless you really really convince him that is what you truly want. Right now...he may be being a bit parental and taking the nicer route thinking he's really saving you a lot of grief (and maybe money) in the long run. Courts are a frustrating place to take grievances. Typically NO ONE comes out satisfied. Attorney's know that and a "friendly" one will try to take you down the path of appeasement to spare you that frustration. Just remember...he represents YOU and YOU sometimes have to really really really insist and give him explicit direction of what you want. Telephone calls and meetings everyday...will end up costing you a ton. But a motion in this instance is necessary, if only to get the judge to smack down your husband and give him explicit orders to keep the boys away from OW. I'm fairly certain the judge will give him one more chance to obey. I just hope the judge will be more clear about what he expects and THEN, WH can either comply or face MUCH MORE serious consequences on the legal front down the road.

Good luck and do something for yourself this weekend. It's personal recovery weekend...NOT ice cream and tv weekend.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - MAKE YOURSELF SOME PLANS FOR NEW YEARS (friends and family)


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
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I just talked with my boys and it�s worse than what I was told yesterday�. WH took DS�s to OW�s house to open their gifts from WH (and most likely her name was on the tags as well). This was confirmed by DS15 and DS12; DS9 stated they opened their gifts at WH�s apt. DS9 is now lying and covering for his father.

I am so tempted to call WH and let him know that I know about this and see what he has to say, but I truly don't think that he cares. He is doing what he is doing out of his own selfish needs and to keep OW happy. I also want to ask him directly if his atty is aware of what he is doing, how he is violating the visitation order. DS�s are with WH until tomorrow night, if I call now this will give him today and tomorrow to convince DS�s how much fun they had at OW�s house.

Is this advisable to contact WH?


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Originally Posted by kateydid
I just talked with my boys and it�s worse than what I was told yesterday�. WH took DS�s to OW�s house to open their gifts from WH (and most likely her name was on the tags as well). This was confirmed by DS15 and DS12; DS9 stated they opened their gifts at WH�s apt. DS9 is now lying and covering for his father.

I am so tempted to call WH and let him know that I know about this and see what he has to say, but I truly don't think that he cares. He is doing what he is doing out of his own selfish needs and to keep OW happy. I also want to ask him directly if his atty is aware of what he is doing, how he is violating the visitation order. DS�s are with WH until tomorrow night, if I call now this will give him today and tomorrow to convince DS�s how much fun they had at OW�s house.

Is this advisable to contact WH?
Katey, do you have an IM? A lawyer? I know one of the "veterans" will offer you the best advice, but my senses tell me that YOU contacting WH is NOT the best thing to do!


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Can you call his folks and beg them to call him and ask him not to take them to her house? Not for you, but for their grandkids' sakes? Let them know that they are texting you and upset, but are afraid to upset their dad, so it's tearing them up?

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Katey, do you have an IM? A lawyer? I know one of the "veterans" will offer you the best advice, but my senses tell me that YOU contacting WH is NOT the best thing to do!


Fred- I have an atty. I don't have an IM- I am not in Plan B. I need to be, I want to be... However, in consulting with my atty when I brought this up to him months ago, he stated that I need to appear to be cooperative, esp. in the judge's eyes... Plan B would not be... so here I am. This was prior to the scheduled hearing in October, which was rescheduled to November, which was rescheduled to December, which is now rescheduled to February....

When he returns DSs tomorrow evening I so want to confront him, non-threatening of course, about the blatant violations. But, maybe I shouldn't, keep WH guessing what I'm going to do as he is obviously aware that DSs have told me about being with OW on Christmas.

Catperson- I wish I could do what you suggested, but I can't especially after learning more details tonight from DS12 (who by the way called me twice because he wasn't feeling well due to cold symptoms). DS12 tells me this evening that they also ate Christmas dinner at OW's after opening gifts and then they all, including OW and her kids, went to my in laws for dessert and to open gifts for them. Yes, Grandma and Grandpa bought OW and her kids gifts.

I feel betrayed all over again and am in such despair right now. I can't not stop focusing on this and OW and feeling that she has invaded more of what is (was) mine.....

And then, I have a voicemail from MIL inviting me and boys over for dinner Monday to give me my gift. They were thankful for the gifts from DSs and I and she ended the conversation with "we love you hon". They didn't even call Christmas morning to wish me a Merry Christmas and now this..... WTH??

I will find out tomorrow if my atty is in his office Monday as my friend's mother is his secretary. If my atty is unavailable am I able to do something with Family Court directly?


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Help...I tried sleeping on all of this... and am still so distressed...UUGGHHHH.... venting....

Do I need to talk with the boys this evening about this violation of visitation? discuss being truthful vs. lying about situations? If the boys say that "it was Ok, it didn't bother me" what then? Will the judge see it the same way or will he really care that WH is in violation of the order that he agreed with and signed? WH so manipulates the boys....

Should I say something to WH? In talking with a few friends, I'm getting mixed answers... some say yes, let him know how inappropriate he was, etc... some say no, let WH keep guessing about what you are going to do...

I am still undecided about going to in laws for dinner. If I go will they think that I am OK with what transpired on Christmas day and how they helped to facilitate this violation? FIL was very uncomfortable around me yesterday (he comes on Sat to take our garbage to the dump). He usually comes in for a cup of coffee, yesterday he didn't, just said thanks for the gifts and to be careful if I go out on the roads. I just keep thinking about how my MIL ignores me in public at DSs sporting events... esp. DS15's school bowling matches. MIL sits with WH, OW and OW's kids.

And then, DS12 has a couple of basketball games this week during non-visitation in which I now have no doubt that WH will show up with OW. This occurred last week, DS12 not happy, had a horrible attitude for about an hour afterward. When I asked if this is what is bothering him, he said in an "I give up" attitude, angry voice "It just doesn't matter anymore... I don't care" Funny thing is, while basketball was being played, OW's kids are at their own school bowling match that OW didn't go to until after DS12's basketball game was done. DS12 came with me to watch the rest of DS15 bowling match, and he never went over to see his father or his grandparents... pretty strong statement.

I know WH is splitting hairs with the whole visitation/non-visitation time, but OW had no reason to be at DS12's game. Other than to either continue to flaunt their affair in front of DS and me, make it acceptable in public, or OW doesn't want WH to be alone if I'm going to be present (this was a theory just presented to me by a friend- not sure if I buy into this one- what do you think?). WH calls alot of attention to himself when he is around the boys in public. He is very loud and obnoxious cheering on the team, pointing out fouls that the refs missed... come on this is a modified team and if every foul was called it would become a 3-hour game.... Then upon leaving he will say loudly "love you boys, be good" Such a warm fuzzy feeling this creates... YUK.





BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Hi kateydid-

I know you are very upset about your WH's on-going violations of the visitation and you want to bring it up-maybe in the hope that he will "snap out of it" but he is a wayward, and they can't see anything beyond their own selfishness. You can't "educate" him right now because he is in the fog of justifying his horrible behavior. Basically, it's like the old saying "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It is a waste of your time and it annoys the pig." (My mom always added: "You will end up covered in mud and pigs like mud.") laugh

I would just keep documenting everything. I think that your boys may be trying to "protect" you from knowing about your WH's on-going disregard of the visitation agreement and them being around the OW. Your boys know that she is a home-wrecker and they won't be giving her much slack. They need to know it's okay for them to tell you the truth about what happens without risking hurting you. I know it's hard, but it's like taking them to the ER to get stitches. You have to be the strong one so they stay calm and can get the help they need. (Yep, been to the ER a few times when my DS's were younger).

I know Queenie had to deal with her FXH bringing the OW to her sons' lacrosse games. I'm not sure where it is in her thread, but she did a great job of always making sure she was chatting with other parents, looking her "goddess" best, and ignoring the waynerds.

Hang in there!



johnstwin-

"I may not know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future." -Martin Luther

Remarried my FXH 25 years to the day of our first M. God is so good-and sometimes so unexpected!

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JT- Thanks for your post.... yeah WH is some pig, huh?? Yup been to the ER with DSs for stitches as well. I will continue to document, pray and hope that when the judge hears of all violations he will not ignore them. I still haven't heard from my friend if atty's office is closed this week.

So, I found that OW has a MySpace page. There is a great photo of her, with her kids and WH puke. I tried accessing her page but it is set to private. Her last login was October... she obviously doesn't check it much. I'm MySpace illiterate. Anything I can do with this? can you post anonymously on this site?

I'm still undecided about dinner with the in-laws... but if they are feeling guilty now about Christmas, then perhaps I should go with a smile on my face.... Take the higher road... I am curious to see if WH and mine pictures are still up on the walls. OW could never have missed them. Maybe I should put my wedding rings back on???


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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I hate to be Debbie Downer, katey, but Im beginning to be pretty unhopeful about your chances of getting him back, since the entire community is now accepting them as a couple.

Are you ready for Plan B?

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Katy,

Had another revelation...

Check with your attorney about persuing a restraining order against OW.

The NY Stalking Laws seem pretty applicable to this situation. Link New York Stalking Law.

I think "Stalking in the Fourth Degree" and "Harassment in the Second Degree" are the most applicable to your situation (I presume she hasn't threatened you physically...yet).

She is "following you (and your children)"; and,
She is "Repeatedly showing up for no legitimate purpose
at places where you (and your children) are.

From the language, you may need to have your attorney send a letter requesting that she CEASE stalking you and your children (you would be filing on behalf of yourself and your kids). You would list out specifically the times she "stalked" you and your children and that such must stop immediately. Then...when she does it again, you file a restraining order AND seek prosecution against her (by filing a police report).

I'm not certain of the exact procedure you'll need to go through to apply these laws in New York otherwise I'd try to save you money by giving you a draft letter to send OW. But I do think this is a good avenue to take.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - If your attorney is unavailable all this week and you'd like to get some kind of letter out to OW in time for New Years eve (do you have her email address?), then I can try to draft a quick Cease Notice for you to send to her. From reading this... safe horizon stalking phamlet it appears such notice can be pretty simple and straight to the point. You just have to give her a clear indication that she needs to stop continually and repeatedely showing up everywhere you and/or your children go. You seemingly don't have to put a bunch of legal language in there or anything. Just ask her to STOP and when she doesn't (which she won't)...you file a restraining order and file a police report.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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I am so frustrated with the legal system..... and am really wondering why I shouldn't just go along with what WH is doing. But then I have several sets of pics of DSs looking at me here on my desk at work and tell myself that is why....

I spoke with my atty today and there isn't anything I can do except document these violations to bring up in court in Feb. My atty tells me that this makes our case look that much better....HMMMM, I wonder. Will the judge lay out some consequences for WH for these violations, esp. Christmas, forcing DSs to be part of a blended family their first Christmas away from our family/traditions. Or will the judge just look at it and say "well it has been long enough and DSs should be able to be around OW/kids with WH". IDK anymore... I expressed my concern re: New Years Eve that WH will do the same thing again. I have been encouraging DSs to really speak up for themselves, but.... Why did I raise them to be so polite and respectful of their elders???? So for now I document.

Mr. W- THANKS!!!! I absolutely love your ideas. I read the info you provided. Do you think this could actually work? or is it more of a long shot? The OW also is aware of the visitation order and she is knowingly violating it... she certainly does not have DSs best interests in mind.
Also I'm certain that this Christmas day was planned as WH never put up a tree/decorations and all the boys gifts were from "Dad and OW" puke

Cat- I never heard the expression "Debbie Downer"... you brought a smile to my face.... I don't know anymore...

I did learn from DSs that when they all arrived at IL's, WH's niece, her DH, and 2 toddlers packed up and left. DS15 said "DS3 wasn't even done playing with his trucks and they were packed up and left" and, WH's older brother, wife, 3 DSs (20,18,18) didn't talk much to WH and OW. I explained to my DSs that is because they do not approve of/like what their dad is doing with OW. They all looked shocked at this.

My atty did recommend that I contact Law Guardian regarding all of this and request she meet with DSs to hear them say how uncomfortable they were, didn't like it, they were never asked but forced to do this, etc.... so I will do that.

I have to leave work now, I'll be back later to post some more... off to dinner with IL's where I will truly be my shining, goddess self with them!!


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Copy all myspace pages with her and your husband so you can show them in court. Make them BIG COLOR PICTURES of her and him.

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Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
Copy all myspace pages with her and your husband so you can show them in court. Make them BIG COLOR PICTURES of her and him.
To that end, anyone who is making screen shots of their WS's computer pages, here is an invaluable tool:

http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Mouser/screenshotcaptor/index.html

It's 100% free, but you have to have a registration code sent to an email address.

I found this invaluable when I was making copies of my WW's telephone activity. There were multiple pages that would not display in their entirety on the screen and required scrolling. This tool will capture the ENTIRE PAGE. It's a great program. I highly recommend it (sorry, Windows only).


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Bubbles-

At this point, I'm not sure if I understand why I should do this... WH has already admitted in divorce trial, under oath, that he is having sex (committing adultery) with OW. Will a copy of her MySpace page be of benefit to me in family court? I also have pictures of her and her kids together with WH & DS9 at DS12's soccer games during his visitation time.

OW's MySpace page is set to private, so I can't see any of her other pictures. On her profile under things she likes to do is "spending time with my magnifesant person and kids" and under Books "dont read", she can't spell either- WH has a smart one!! Also she has typed under her profile "the candles go out August 18". WH and I had a scheduled divorce hearing that day, but only was a pre-trial conference where nothing was resolved- NICE on OWs part. Her page was created last June 09 and last logon in Oct.

Update of last night's dinner with IL's... Dinner went well, it was comfortable though not as comfortable as in the past before my MIL's and BIL's (still lives with his parents at 41yrs of age) attitudes towards me shifted 180 degrees. We all made small talk, MIL asking how certain members of my family are doing. Also, a level of joking was present as well that was always present before. I also noticed that mine and WH's wedding and family pictures were still up on the walls. What does this say? Should I take some satisfaction in knowing that OW and her kids, even WH, had to see them on Christmas?

I did put my wedding rings on before going and I really can't describe the feelings with this, but it was incredible, like being reunited with someone you haven't seen in a long time- does that make sense? I still haven't taken them back off... I know I took them off last month because even though they represented a lot of memories, the mutual committment that they also represent isn't there; it is just my committment to my marriage. Any thoughts on this?? I wish the thread on this wasn't lost when this site was down.


BW-me 40; WH-39
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DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
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Hi Katey, I think your best bet in this situation is to make that appointment with the guardian ad litem (or whatever you call them in New York) for an interview with your boys about their take on being forced to integrate into WH's new life and with OW and her children.

The GAL's sole purpose is to figure out what's in the best interest of the children and to make recommendations accordingly. Judges almost always go with a GAL's recommendation.

But before that, you need to have a discussion with your boys that it's OKAY to express their unhappiness with the whole situation, to be honest on how all of this makes them feel.

Their dad is trying to be a Disney Dad leaving you to deal with the real aspects of child-rearing, disciplining, hand-holding, teaching them values and morals, etc. I would make this your focus-- instead of WH's relationship with OW. Your children are WAY more important than that.

WH needs to wake up and smell the coffee and realize that life isn't so grand and it's only going to get worse for him. He makes ME angry and I don't even know him.

(((Katey)))


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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I DO think the stalking thing could work.

Depends on the judge, of course, but if she's aware the judge ordered her to keep away from the children during WH's visitation that PRESUMES some degree of "harm" is associated with such contact.

Do you have her email address...send her a notice and cc your WH asking her to cease and decist following you and your children around town. I think it could be as simple as this:

"OW,

I am asking you respectfully to cease and desist following me and my boys around town. There is a court order specifically precluding you from contact with my children when they have visitation with [WH] (which you and he continually violate but that is beyond my control and will need to be addressed in future court matters between my husband and I), however, during my custodial time with my children I do have authority and you have NO legitimate purpose to continually show up unwelcome in our presence and I am requesting this stop immediately.

Your persistent and repeated presence is threatening, hurtful, and emotionally devastating to all of us. Please stop stalking me and my children.

Katy"


That should do it. If and when it continues...document the date, times, circumstances and places (even email responses which I hope this solicits). Then...file a restraining order AND a police report.

I think NY takes stalking laws a little more serious than most of the states out there. Worse case...the judge denies it, but you are free to file police report after police report. Each instance is a seperate "offense" and CAN BE prosecuted. You'll get your restraining order...eventually. Squeeky wheel WILL get the grease. Be persistant but PLEASANT so as to not be vindictive seeming.

Mr. Wondering




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Oh I agree with the stalking thing too! But I think along with that, the GAL could be very beneficial to get something DONE legally (along with the stalkings stuff) about this. In fact, a copy of your demand could be copied to GAL as well.


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I explained to my DSs that is because they do not approve of/like what their dad is doing with OW. They all looked shocked at this.
You should have some more discussions with them about what actually goes on in families. Kids just think all kinds of crazy things about how adults handle things. If they know that other adults wouldn't accept his bad behavior, it will give them courage to be true to themselves, too.

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I would make this your focus-- instead of WH's relationship with OW. Your children are WAY more important than that

Thank you and you are ABSOLUTELY right- My children are more IMPORTANT. But, yet I find myself in that rut where my main focus is on WH's adultery with OW and I can't seem to get out and away from it..... It also seems that I just keep hitting brick wall after brick wall banghead and it gets hard to get up. BUT, I know this is WAR and there are going to be tough battles along the way.

Mr. W- Thank you for your advice and the directions you point me in. After reading your post last night I felt like I had something to fight back with having my boys exposed to OW in blatant violation of the court order. I even wrote a letter to send to OW and have it ready to email.

Then came the brick walls this morning..... banghead
I was told by 2 of my friends that I shared this with that it was a stretch and I might do more harm by sending this letter to OW, in essence threatening her (though I don't see where there is a threat stated in the letter- it is what you wrote).

I discussed this with my IC this morning, who is the Family Court psychologist, and he told me that this would not hold up in court. He did state that WH is in contempt of court and he assured me that the judge would address these violations, but maybe just by fining WH- what???. He doesn't think the judge will restrict WHs visitation... but you never know... maybe the cases he hears before ours will pi$$ him off. He's not sure why my atty won't file official violations (unless it will be more effective to bring to court the list of all violations and other infractions at once), or even a motion for WH to show cause why he is violating visitation order. I did tell IC that I had contacted DSs LG and requested she meet with DSs to discuss this. He thinks that she may file a motion with the court depending on outcome of her meeting with the boys.

I am waiting for my atty to call me back re: harassment/stalking by OW.

If my atty is not in favor of this is this something that I can do on my own? Or will this jeopardize his working with me and my case? I don't want that to happen. I did question some of what he told me in the last year re: WH's divorce petition, but in the end it turned out like he said it would- dismissed due to lack of grounds.

Now I just wait and see what WH does with DSs for New Years Eve. It is predicted that we will be getting a snow storm so in my mind, the worst case scenario is.... WH taking DSs to OW's house and they end up getting "stranded" there b/c of snow storm and have to spend the night....... and I will be on the phone with atty Monday morning being that squeeky wheel.

NO, I will not be sitting at home worrying and thinking about this, I am going to friends' home to a party. I went there a couple of weeks ago for a Christmas party and enjoyed myself. I even had a new experience... sat in a hot tub at 2 am in 10 degree weather... it was AWESOME (except the getting out part.. cold and slippery). Though, these parties are hard as I am surrounded by couples... and WH and I used to attend as a couple as well.


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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