You know there is a very, very crude saying they have for this. I will NOT post it here...
Afraid I will get 2 x 4'ed into oblivion.

Not to be overly harsh, barbiecat, but if you weren't going to post it here, why did you post the above?

A clue, maybe...?

People told me I'd have a ton of work and a lot less money without B. Nope. Sure, there was less money, but I was able to stay in the house. Sure there was more work, but not that much more. How are is throwing in a load of laundry? Plus the savings of having someone who reads the labels and sorts by colors is amazing.

And honestly, after watching the financial stuff for the last 7-8 years, I believe that B was sponging off of me. He seems to have a lot more disposible income now than he ever did when we were married. Back then I had to ask him to contribute money to the household bills every month. I have never known how much B made, and still don't. Better that way.

I was wondering whether my stbxh was going to find a case of "sticker shock" if he moves in with his illicit romance partner. I'm a laid back person, I don't have any expensive habits (other than a nice vacation trip, when I can get it). I don't like jewelry, I don't spend a lot on clothes, I don't accrue a lot of possessions. I was slow to anger, quick to make up, I worked full time and handed my check over to WH because he paid the bills. I was pretty good in bed (although WH's sex addiction meant that enough was never enough), and I was totally faithful in our 33 year marriage. Even WH describes me as a "low maintenance" wife.

He may find new woman to be a high maintenance drama queen with expensive tastes. And if she is as sexually needy as he was, he may find that he can't keep up with HER, and will probably find out what if feels like to be cheated on.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just "shuffle the deck" on this site, and see our wayward spouses matched up with each other, instead of us. I'd bring popcorn and watch that drama!

If we all get together, I bet we can buy an island somewhere and drop all the ex's there.

you guys are 2 funny.
Around the time W started being WW, she wanted to "help out" by taking control of paying the bills. So she got the passwords and we refinanced and we changed banks. She then thought it would be good to pay extra on the mortgage (like $400/mo). All seems real fishy now. Was she trying to have more of the house paid off for some reason that I can't figure out even now?

Either way, it prepared me for the extra money that's now going out to CS. I cut back on the heat, water, electricity cause she's not home all day to run up the bills. Quit drinking through all the revalations - there's >$50/wk btwn booze and all that goes along with it. Don't go out or order out as much b/c I've discovered a love for cooking. More time to make the kid's lunches - no more buying at school. No more trips to the Caribbean - we'll camp instead, and have just as much fun.

It probly ain't all that good, but I try to look at the bright side.
opt

MB is teaching me to write concisely. This is a bit lengthy, but I'll try to make it as brief as possible.

Three days ago I was asked to be the speaker at an A.A. District event. I agreed, but was dismayed to hear the topic: "Serenity Under Fire." But I never say no when A.A. asks.

I arrived at the appointed time, and who should walk in ten minutes later than The Leopard. "Huh," I said to myself, "what is she doing here? It's a ways from her new place and the food is spaghetti (she abhors pasta)?"

The organizer of the event said he could get someone else to speak if her presence bothered me, but I said no, I would go ahead.

Since much of the "fire" I've been feeling lately is a direct result of The Leopard's adultery and the crushing of our marriage, I felt I had to address that in my talk.

First, I mentioned an occurrence that happened when I was young in A.A. concerning an injury my daughter suffered. Then I recounted the events of late: my "back attack," losing the first of two job losses, my wife "losing her job" and finally culminating in her announcing her wish to leave the marriage. I did not mention that she had gotten fired or that she was committing adultery. I did mention that I had filed for divorce this week, so if she hasn't checked her mail, she knows it now!

Toward the end of my talk I asked the audience for a show of hands. How many were feeling "under fire?" The Leopard, sitting all the way in the back, raised her hand. How many were feeling serene? A good number of hands. I then indicated The Leopard and asked if she wanted to share about how she felt "under fire." I guess I caught her by surprise, as she stammered a little in disbelief and then spewed some nonsense about me harassing her, stalking her and something I couldn't make out.

When she finished, I turned to the audience and said, "Ladies and gentlemen, meet my soon-to-be ex-wife. The woman I have not spoken with since January and who I have visually encountered four times since. I turned and left three of those four times."

I then asked for more q&a from the audience and then ended my talk.

I had a number of people come up to me afterward telling me how well I managed the situation. One person put it best: "A great demonstration of serenity under fire when the fire is right there in the room."

The best is yet to come.

As I was making my way out of the building I had to walk past The Leopard, who was speaking with someone. She caught my eye as I was walking and in a neutral voice asked, "Can we talk for a few minutes?"

In an equally neutral voice I replied, "No."

And I kept on walking.



And oh, a postscript. I saw her drive away in a Honda Civic that was at least several years old. With new car plates on it. It's no Jeep.

Hey Fred-O,

Nicely done. You really are doing awesome. I hope you know that. Keep setting a great example for the folks who find themselves in a boat similar to yours, but who just haven't rowed as far along as you have.

TB

Fred,

It's never a dull moment on you threads.....

I got to agree with BT you've done an awesome job.....

Did you drive the Jeep ????

Do you have the plates on it yet ??????

Please tell me yes and the Leopard saw the Jeep !!!!!!!

You just never know when those opportunities will present them selves .........

Wow Fred, that is some story! Serenity under fire, thinking fast, and balls of steel! So happy / proud for you... you will be able to use that one for smiles if you need them for a while.

Not to mention the tremendous example you provided for everyone there who might be tempted at some stressful point, to see how it is done, live!

Love the license plates as well...

Check it out, SC. here.

I don't know if she's seen it, yet. But enough people have that I don't doubt word has gotten back to her.

OK, somebody smack me.

A couple of times today I felt "bothered." And I finally realized what was bothering me. It's been an unidentifiable uneasiness that's dogged me since near the beginning of this miserable time.

Here it is: I've been wondering if maybe I didn't give it my all?

What if The Leopard isn't personality disordered, but is just another run-of-the-mill wayward? And I didn't fight hard enough to work Plan A, expose the affair and show her the best husband she's ever had?

Stories abound in A.A. of the given-up-for-dead drunk who ultimately manages to turn it around and get sober. Could it be that I gave up too soon, and that she truly is redeemable?

Alright, I know that I've spent the past months studying, researching, getting counseling and generally coming to an awareness of not only the condition of The Leopard, but of myself as well.

I'm hardly a perfect man. I didn't realize it until recently, but impatience is a major character defect of mine. My daughter, like her mother, is missing the "punctuality gene," and her expected tardiness still irks the bejesus out of me!

The Leopard and I were married within eight months of us meeting. I guess I wanted "instant recovery" after D-day. Ha!

Maybe I'm patting myself on the back too much, but I'm pleased with the way I was able to resist getting back into her vortex yesterday.

Plan B - even when it's the lead-up to Plan D, works!

Fred-isn't it true that it is the "given-up-for-dead drunk" who is the one who manages to turn things around and get sober? No one else can do it for them, correct? If that is so, how could it be that YOU gave up too soon on the Leopard? It wasn't your job to "redeem" her.

To quote Dr. Phil: "The only person you can change is you." Or, as the saying goes: "you can lead a horse to water..."

Yes, johnstwin. Thanks.

Fred, I honestly think that for conscientious guys like you (and myself) that this question never quite goes away. For me it's really the one thing nags me the most about all this D crap. Can I really, really look my kids in the eye and say I did everything I could?


How well do you know your WW? Can you make a reasonable prediction that IF, IF she were to redeem herself from the tremendously bad choices she has made, it will be on far too long of a time-table to be fair to you? Am I making any sense? From what you've told us here, I don't see that much potential for your WW; I think she has serious issues that will take a long time to straighten out, if she chooses to try.

In case it helps, here's how I look at my situation: I've know WW for 20 years. I think I can reasonably say that she's never going to subscribe to the MB philosophy. I also don't think anything I could have done would have persuaded her to do so (Plan B, Plan anything). If I'm wrong, well good for her and good for her new husband, when that day comes.
On the other hand, there's someone else out there who I have a better chance at building a real marriage with. I may never find her. But I feel my odds are better with someone I have yet to meet than with someone I 'shared' 20 years with.

Selfish? Maybe. I had a biblical excuse to bail before I went through the same trauma again down the road, or died trying to avoid it.

Not sure if that gives you any perspective, but I can definitely identify with your apprehensions. Thanks for laying it out there - good food for thought/discussion.

**Would you say that you're running up against these doubts in your mind TODAY, because of the interaction you had with WW? I'm not criticizing you, but I think this is why Plan B is supposed to be air-tight.

opt

Fred,

Been hanging out over here on the dark side..... funny I never used to look that this board now I have trouble looking at the SSA one....

Sooooo I missed your tags on the other thread that makes me laugh... and yes I'm going to steal that one if I can get my hands on the CJ-7 I gave the WW for our 20 anniversary.....

Dr. Harley talks about as we work our way thru plan-A and plan-B .....that as we reach our limits (what ever they are) and we end up (where you and I are now) divorcing..... that in the end that we will have less regrets .....not that we won't have them just that there will be less of them.....

I think it's natural to second guess what we could have done.....might have done..... should have done......

What we tend to forget was the living H we were in at that moment and that we did the best that we could at the time.... You know your character, the man you are, and what you have done to attempt to restore your marriage.......

In your heart you know there are no real regrets there ....you did everything possible.....

It's ok to be proud of the effort you have done



(You know I writing this for myself as well)

Fred, a word of warning...

Please be careful about antagonizing your STBX. I'm not judging your actions, and I don't even know if your STBX was antagonized.

Now is the time to keep the ends clearly in the center of all your actions with her. I'm not sure exactly what your goal is. In your shoes mine would be to get away as quickly and as cheaply as possible. This won't happen if you make her madder than a hornet.

Fred,

I just heard about a book that might be helpful for you (just saw it today on my lawyer's desk, of all places). It's called, 'Splitting- Protecting yourself when divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist" by William Eddy.
My lawyer said it was a very good book (and he obviously has a lot of BPD divorces he deals with).

I'm trying to think of anyone else that could benefit from this. Supposedly it's good for rec. what to do and not do when divorcing in order to spare yourself tons of more $$$ and pain due to their vindictiveness.

I know someone else who strongly, strongly recommends this book if your STBX suffers from a personality disorder.

I went to the on-line book place I normally order books from (don't know if I can say the name here) and for some odd reason the price for this book was $178!!!!

If you Google the title, you can find it at a BPD website for $25.