I know lots of you have posted comments on how to move past the pain of the affair, but I hope I can get some needed support from the folks here on this website, because I really need to get this off my chest to someone who can understand. I posted my story in Surviving an Affair. D-Day was two months ago, and we've been living on a remote island (in the Azores) for almost three months due to H's job transfer. I was only willing to join my husband here out of my love for him, because I've spent my entire 52 years of life moving from place to place, first with my father who was in the military,then with my government worker husband. So if there was ever any yearning for adventure, it had long been fulfilled, and I was at the point where I deeply wanted to settle down. But when my husband found out his next assignment was here, what's a loving wife to do but to offer to join her husband, right? He was so happy that I was going to be with him, and we made our plans. I cried every day for a month (I'm not exaggerating) because I loved my settled life there. I had my business, my grandchildren, friends, everything, but with my husband deployed, I was also looking forward to living with him again. At this point, he had still been faithful, although he says now that a friendship with a woman there had been developing for a while. I had no idea of this. I only mention this part, because this move was the most profound thing I believe I had ever done for my husband to show my love for him. To be willing to give up everything in the world I loved to be with him meant a great deal to me. At the time, it seemed to mean a lot to him as well.

When we first arrived on this island, I was perplexed as to why my husband wasn't warm with me, why he seemed so unhappy, but he wasn't forthcoming with any answers. I didn't know that the entire time, he was continuing to email OP, often right in the hotel room with me right there across the room. I never suspected this, because I didn't know he was capable of this depth of cruelty.

Shortly after I discovered the affair, he established NC, wanting to the "right thing," and to my knowledge this has not been broken. Physically, she is far away and unlikely to bump into us on this remote outpost. Since then, H has apparently done a complete turnaround, acting very remorseful and has done everything possible to deposit love units and avoid LB. We have read through SAA, HSHN, and the LB book. We completed the EN questionnaires. We had what seemed to be the usual up and down recovery period so far. Weeks of hysterical bonding, days of tears but also some very good days in between. The past couple of days have been extremely difficult for me. There's no good reason coming from H; he's been warm and loving as he possible can be. The pain is coming from within my own heart and soul. I think back to when I offered to give up everything I loved to join him and he gratefully accepted, THEN he had this affair with this OP. He ended up falling in love with her and didn't want to come home to me, although he says now he had no good reason--it wasn't like our marriage was in trouble or anything. He has always said I was a "wonderful woman." But he didn't tell me, so I assumed he was just trying to get used to things. We went through the complicated process of moving overseas and the heartbreak of saying goodbyes to those beloved little children and here I am now, wondering why I am here. How could he have accepted all of this from me and then turned around and have an affair with someone he knew for a few months. He said later on that he brought me here so we could pay off our house sooner, because he planned to give it to me when he left me. He said he knew I didn't deserve the affair, and this was the least he could do. He was going to leave everything behind, share his retirement with me (providing OP didn't give him guff about it, I'm supposing.) He was going sacrifice all of this for OP.

At this point, I am wondering mostly what kind of man he really is; is it possible for a person to change character so much? I couldn't imagine it was possible for him to be so selfish and cruel as to allow me to leave everything behind, knowing all the while he was in love with OP. I don't understand any of this, and now I go back and forth between absolutely despising him and wanting my own life back...without him in it, and yet wanting what we once had, what he says he wants more than anything now. I don't know how to believe him or if it's smart to believe him. How much more can I put myself in his hands and not be stupid? By putting myself in his hands, I mean that in order for me to be here with him, I have had to give up my career for the most part, except for some remote bookkeeping that I have been able to retain.

For thirty years, we have made plans and moved here and there, often living overseas, and I have made new lives every single place, never able to build my own career or retirement or even have my own health plan because of the requirements of moving. I know this part was my choice and that I could chosen to live separately all this time, but then what's the point of being married? Thankfully, we were in one place long enough for me to finally earn my BS in finance in my early 40's, so at least I have an education I can lean on if necessary. H apparently feels terribly guilty and promises he has changed, but after this, I don't know who he really is. He has asked me for something he could do to show me his changed character, but I have no ideas. I have his passwords. I never told anyone but our chaplain and my good friend back home, so no one else at all knows. I kept it to myself, because it seemed there was little point in exposure since OP was very far away with no chance of getting here. I have access to his email and have seen nothing. She was removed from FB and hasn't shown up since.

Is this what I have to look forward to for the next couple of years? I had no idea it was possible to suffer this much and hate someone so much while at the same time wanting desperately to love him. I'm not the drama-queen type of person. Heck, I'm the quintessential sensible bookkeeper-type. And yet, here I am with more ups and downs than I thought was possible in one person.

51CD30,

I empathize with your story. It has bits and pieces that are similar to mine.

Recovery is hard. You are only a couple of months into it. The amount of time discussed here, IF both spouses are on board, is 2 to 5 years.

It seems to me as if you have alot going for you. You have been married, in a good marriage, for a long time. You do not live anywhere near the OW and it appears as if there has been no contact for quite some time. It sounds as if your H has finished his withdrawal period.

I know this sounds awful, but it appears as though your H had what Dr. Harley would call a "typical affair". Like many, many people, your H slid into it because of poor boundries. Once in, he was addicted and did all kinds of awful things to "get his fix".

Ranting here is ok. Is there anything specific you want answered or anything you want to do?

AM

Thanks AM...

I guess what I'm needing to know at the moment is getting a handle on these awful up and down emotions. I'll be fine for a few days, even happy and doing things, then I'll go into a place where I feel like I'm going to cry for days about this and don't want to be close to my husband. I'll go from making love one day to sleeping on the other side of the bed the next. Is this supposed to be normal? I'm about the most emotionally even-keeled and logical person I know and this is very hard to go through. I hate not even knowing if I want to stay or go, whether I love or despise H.

I don't know much about recovery; it's better than divorcing, but it's still not an easy road, even with a H who wants to work it out. How did some of you handle this period of time?

Well, I was not really a poster child for handling it well. I had many of the same feelings that you are expressing. I disliked my H, but did not want a divorce.

My H lied to me for more than a year. I had angry outbursts during that time. What changed and how did I handle it?

1. H stopped lying and I stopped angry outburst. We both avoid lovebusters.
2. We work the MB program with very little deviation. We spend about 20 hours a week in undivided attention. This has been key for us. If we don't get our UA hours, we both feel bad. We both like the same recreational activities and we have a variety of both winter and summer outdoor activities.
3. Anti-depressants.
4. Avoid talking about the affair. it is an enemy of good conversation and once things are out in the open, there is no need to re-visit.
5. There is a thread on this recovery forum dealing with trigger management. It was helpful to me and over time triggers decreased. I still have them, but not the overwhelming reaction to them.

When we lived in Europe, my H visited the Azores for work. It seemed to be a very small place. Is there much to do there?



AM

Thanks for your suggestions.

I know I'm focusing too much on the affair and although I have never yelled at him about it, I talk about it too much at times and am very sad on and off. And the funny thing about negativity is that the more there is, the more it tends to snowball. I need to find a better way to deal with this by finding other healthy outlets.

On this island, hmmm....there ARE things to do, but it's not like it was in Southern California, is all I can say. The military community here is helpful and positive, but since the base is small, it takes a while to find things to do. Last week, the GIs hosted a talent show--ended up with standing room only. What does that tell you about all there is to do here? Still I will need get out more, force myself to get over that hurdle of just wanting to stay indoors and bury myself. I know it's not good for me.

We will need to look for some new activities to do together here in this new place. Moving turned our world upside down.

Guess it will take time and a great deal of mental effort. Thank you for telling me how you and your H handled things. I'll have to work harder to avoid sinking into "The Pit."

You already sound more positive. One thing Dr Harley seems to stress is a focus on the future, rather than the past. The past is done and there is no way to change it. And yeah, the recent past sucked, so I don't want the future to be more of the same.

A few months ago, my H and I filled out the recreational activity inventory. It is here on this site under the questionnaire tab. We had spent years apart during my H's deployments. It was helpful to rank those things that we both enjoy doing and then start doing them together. We both play golf very badly - still beginners. But we enjoy playing golf together, even though no one else in their right mind would want to join us.

The military are pretty good about making up something fun to do when in an isolated location. Maybe most of America would not be excited about a talent show. But there were probably some highpoints and some laughs.

Are there many travel opportunities there? We travelled much of Europe and skiied the Alps extensively. We took a couple of cruises while in Europe. One started/ended in Venice and went to the Greek Isles and Croatia. We loved it.

AM

I think all BSs feel the same. This emotional roller coaster is our new normal ... for a time, not forever.

It really is true that feelings follow actions. So, plan enjoyable time together with your H and focus on meeting the various ENs.

It will get better. I'm not entirely healed (will I ever be, I wonder), but I'm headed in the right direction.

I love your thread title:


Recovery is so much more difficult to pull off than Plans A/B during the affair.
People who are doing Plan A/B don't believe us when we say "RECOVERY is MUCH harder."

People who lack the strength/stamina/fortitude for a good Plan A-Plan B usually fail miserably at what they call "recovery" .... which usually amounts to living with/acceptance of an unhappy unfulfilling marriage arrangement.

People who shortcut Plans A/B will also shortcut recovery. And then, they say "Why isn't this working?"

If it is HARD, you must be doing something right !!!


More later ....

The first thing I always look at when I read your type of dilemma is this:



Your timeline.
You're FINE.
Keep going.



No yelling = good.
You did not mention crying.
Crying = good.
Ask H to hold you when you feel sad.

I want to suggest you journal your personal recovery.
You like to write, I think.
Once you have been journaling for a few months, you will be able to see your progress.

As for the negativity, write it all down in your journal and then balance it by writing 3 positive things every journal entry.
On the days you do not journal any negative thoughts, continue with the positive affirmations/gratitudes/things you learned/etc.

You'll soon see an accumulative effect of this type of personal journaling.

Best wishes and good luck!

1. You are not stupid.
2. You are wounded, be gentle with yourself.
3. Recognize that this recovery business is a process, and the necessary steps are not always pleasant nor always unpleasant.
4. You are trying to squeeze a WH's illogical choices into a "logical husband" algorithm.
Ain't gonna happen. Let it go for now. It will only drive you nutz.

5. Love/hate is exactly where you should be, considering your timeline.
You love the man, you hate his choices.

You're doing FINE.

Armymama, Delta, & Pepperband,

THANK YOU! You have all been through this. I really needed the support and suggestions, because it feels like I'm going crazy sometimes. I have cried buckets of tears, more than I ever have before over anything else in my 52 years of living. It sort of sounds like it's normal for me to feel crazy, for a while anyway. We are both so thankful I stumbled into this website. When I first discovered the affair, H thought I'd be happy for him that he "finally found his soul mate." (WHAT?--didn't realize he was on the search for one) And right here on this website, I found that this is common language. He was astounded and embarrassed to realize that what he thought was so special is part of the repertoire of the wandering spouse, the justification for leaving. Now he never uses that phrasing.

I will try the journaling. Writing is very helpful and will allow me to balance out the negative with the positive without always talking about it out loud. The acceptance part is very very difficult for me. I like to fix everything and have everything "nice and neat," but this can't be fixed. It only MUST be accepted and moved past. Sometimes, the adultery gets right up in my face and other times, it appears to be behind me where I can't see it and can sort of ignore it. Sounds like this is normal, too. I hate it, but like any wound, it needs time. I have read on this site of some very difficult situations for BS. I can only shake my head in sadness at what people do to each other. I'm thankful that it appears H is very sorry, very tender, and once again in love with me. I got the ILYBINILWY speech like so many of the others, and it hurt me deeply. But H does now appear to be much warmer than he was before and is back to being himself, perhaps even a better self than before.

Armymama was right. In the long absence, H didn't have any boundaries, enjoyed the friendship of both genders, but developed a special bond with this AP. I wasn't there to meet his ENs, and he allowed AP to do this. After reading Harley's books, H has promised to avoid any opposite gender friendships. We plan to avoid any long separations in any case.

We are both working hard at meeting the ENs. Being on this remote island is a blessing in disguise. I wasn't happy about moving here, but we do, at least, have a great deal of time for the UA, which has been instrumental in pulling us back together.

Well,thanks again.

51CD30,

Thank you for posting your thoughts. You have put into words what has been runing through my head as I go through this. Your d-day is not so far after mine. It is comforting to know that there are others out there experiencing the same feelings that I am. I don't feel so alone. Best of recovery to you.

Since my first post on this topic a few days ago, I have taken to heart the things suggested to me. When I think of the A and how horrible it all was that it happened and relive the feelings I suffered when I found out, I am trying very hard now to replace those awful thoughts with thinking how it is right NOW. Once H started coming out of the fog, his behavior toward me changed drastically, from cold and withdrawn to warm and loving. He has expressed frequently how terrible he feels about the A. I hadn't paid attention until yesterday to one particularly major change, though--no defensive and no escalation on his part.

We were doing a little marriage devotional that wasn't too helpful for someone in a recent post-adultery situation. It's a very nice book for someone in a regular sort of marriage who needs a little boost, but all it's done in our situation is point out all the shortcomings in our marriage. Depressing, and H (in a rare and new display of honesty and openness) asked me if we could just put it away for a few years or maybe even pass it on. We found Harley's books more on target for what we need right now. The devotional for that day got me started on A talk...bad. I told him he was an a**hole (I'm never vulgar like that, but here I was) with a lot of toilet paper stuck on. A wolf in sheep's clothing. He did what he has done for the last couple of months since D-day--sucked it up and agreed that he had acted very badly and said yet again how sorry he was. All without being defensive. He suggested gently that the name-calling was not helping anything. No escalation or ugliness like could have happened. Right after he left for work (I know, really bad timing and judgment on my part) I remembered the suggestions from others and was suddenly mortified with myself for saying anything so negative. Then I realized how he has displayed so much love and humility and not fought back with me in my occasional rages. I suddenly realized I need to think about THAT as our way of moving forward. H really is trying to deposit love units into my negative account and not giving up. I decided that I should be thinking about that, and that's something I can admire about him (one of his ENs.) I emailed immediately and apologized; he replied with a sense of humor about it. Really amazing, but I was taking it for granted all this time.

Pass this on to your H.

Everyday, my H asks:

"Is there anything I can do for you today?"

Sometimes I say: "No, thank you".
Or, I might say: "Yes. I'd like you to (task)."
My most frequent response is: "Stay tuned in."

Eventually, I began to ask him the same question.

It's a small but significant step towards mutual caring and (hopefully) empathy.

It sounds to me as if your H has made a good effort towards increasing empathy for your feelings.

((( HUGS )))

It's been a tough week. I am so often so terribly sad. Now that three months has passed since D-Day, I can see I must have been in some kind of shock and disbelief for a while. Now I'm struck very deeply by what happened. I'm so disappointed in my marriage and in the man I chose to be my husband. I often wonder if either of us has the stomach and fortitude to get through this recovery process. H is being to show some impatience. Honestly, there are times I would like to simply leave him and carry on in peace on my own. I am not afraid to live on my own; I did so the entire time he was deployed after all and did just fine. I have thought about this many times this week, wondering if it's worth the tremendous effort, wondering if he has the stamina to stick with me in spite of the tears and the terrible pain I feel. I know that in comparison to many others, my situation is "easier;" the emotional affair lasted for several months and then went physical for about a month while they traveled together in southern Iraq, taking advantage of the opportunity to be out of the "fishbowl" of the close confines of the base. She's far away and is unlikely to be here, so I don't have that concern. Since he was living an independent life, I don't have the lies that most spouses have to deal with on a daily basis to cover up the affair.

I hate hate hate the knowledge that everything we shared as a married couple sexually, he shared with her. I hate that he spent long hours in intimate conversation with her. I hate that he let me upend my life without having the guts to tell me the truth first and letting me make up my own mind. There are many times I feel nothing at all for H, other times I hate him and yet other times when he tells me he loves me and I reply that I love him, too, that I must love him in some way if I'm still here. Or maybe it's an unwillingness to let the dreams and building of 31 years of marriage die. I don't really know what it is. Last night, I just wanted a teddy bear to hug. Can you imagine that a grown woman of 52 years wanted a teddy bear for comfort? I feel like a sad little girl who has no one to hug her. I want H to hug me; I don't want H to hug me. I want to leave; I want to stay. It's a horrible thing what adultery does to all parties.

I'm not asking for any advice here, just some words of encouragement. I can't seem to get through this sadness. It's overwhelming at times. Still functioning: getting up every morning, showering, doing my remote bookkeeping, getting together with friends (no one here knows) cooking and so on. I feel somewhat dead inside.

51CD30,

I truly understand everything you wrote. I think most BSes on this site have had those same feelings.

It does get better. For me, the lows are less low and don't last near as long.

It is good that you are getting up and functioning. I had some days when I really could not get up and going. Instead of a teddy bear, our dog would cuddle me.

AM

Hi there 51CD30,
I think you have hit the nail on the head for all of us, we all feel like quitting at times and other times it works fine for us.......
When I need a hug I ask my husband for that, he holds me for a few moments and I feel better, sometimes I don't worry about him in that moment, I just really enjoy the hug and closeness and it gets me through the moment.......I struggle with the fact that the marriage vow I took is gone and that my sacred intimate life with my husband doesn't belong to just us anymore.............the way I look at it is that life is different now and that it will never be as it was.......you can't be accountable for someone else's decisions but you can do what feels right for you, if it no longer feels good to do something don't do it........you have to just find different ground rules for the two of you. Your husband will understand that he has changed things and that parts of the situation will be different for you and the marriage........
Just a consequences of his decisions........
52 years old, I'm 53 I know what it feels like to have all you believed in change......
But you are worth any effort it takes to have a happy productive life.....you are doing it for you not him.......
Take your control back...........you are letting the affair control your life and the affair isn't worth that.........
Set up your boundaries and respect yourself and if do what makes you happy.....
When you feel better about yourself you will start to enjoy life again.........
One of the sayings around here are fake it until you feel it..............

After reading many more posts from this great website, I think I know why recovery has been really really hard for me, with days fluctuating wildly from hope to despair. The whole story is below, but in a nutshell, this is not the first offense committed against our marriage, although it is the most egregious. With this adultery came up all the old, long-buried monsters of the past.

I apologize for this being so long, but it has helped me tremendously to get it all out....Perhaps a few of you will bear with me and then offer your wisdom.

H had for many years displayed very independent behavior, rarely asking my opinion on important financial matters. As a result not only did he make a number of gross missteps, which frankly would have been avoided had we worked together, but it made me not like him very much. This went on for about 18 years. I never did deal with it properly, because for most of that time, we were living overseas, and I felt pretty powerless. I didn't tell anyone, because I figured it was our burden to work through.

At the end of our tour overseas, H had to go on a three-week business trip. He met some female there, spent time with her, made out with her, and came home withdrawn and extremely cold toward me. When pressed, he finally angrily told me, that yes, there had been a woman during this travel, and that he was seriously considering leaving me and our daughter for this person. (Remember this was someone he knew for THREE weeks.) I was deeply hurt and stunned. About this time, I had discovered evidence of more secret spending and some dating games on CDs, hidden behind our computer desk.

As part of our own recovery process, I told him that he had to allow me to learn to deal with the finances and was was grudgingly allowed to do so. We suffered through the recovery process in the new place, going to counseling and as a result found that he had some serious depression problems, which we then needed to address. H had for periods of time been very difficult to live with. Now we know this was chronic depression, but we didn't know that at that time. This took place as we were making our arrangements to move to the states, based on orders from his company. He acted horribly to both me and our daughter, just brutally cold with us.

As I was working on the finances, I found that he had forged my name to some documents withdrawing funds from a financial institution. This was done three times, totaling about $10K, in order for him to purchase expensive collectible comic books without my knowledge. Stunned again. Because I needed some support and advice, I told my parents about this and about the brief affair, and they recommended I put as much as possible into my name to protect the funds and to get my education completed in case I had to take care of myself. They loved my H but they wanted me to be protected.

H eventually repented of these things, and we moved on. Recovery took a good while, though. Our marriage seemed much happier, and H was finally content with his life as it was. Before this, he had forever been restless and discontent with just about everything in his life. Really sad.

At 42, I earned my BS in Business/Finance. During the last semester of school and while getting ready for our daughter's wedding, I accidentally found that H had been going into porn sights and inappropriate Internet chat rooms, emailing other women in a ribald manner. Also masturbating frequently, which explained why the low sexual desire in our marriage. I found emails where he was very suggestive with a woman we knew from a prior assignment, but the interest was not returned from what I read on her side. Stunned again. I was horribly disappointed in this man. The only one I told was our pastor at that time. He directed H to a men's sexual purity support-type group, which he was part of up until the time we moved yet again. He really appeared to take repentance and purity seriously again and things seemed to get better. Getting over this offense took longer than the first time. When this was discovered, it brought up the monsters of the past again. For a couple of years at least, I felt like I was always looking over my shoulder.

Everything stayed pretty happy until some really tough work years for H, plunging him back into a depression, but this time it came with angry outbursts over tiny offenses or he would misunderstand something, taking it the wrong way, and be angry. No one at work liked him anymore. He was angry and tense for weeks. Finally he left for a five-week business trip. No women during this time that I could tell, but I didn't miss him in the least, not even for a moment, because it was such a relief to be away from him. When he returned home, I told him he had to get help, or I was done with him. So he got help, went on meds again and was much much better. He apologized to all that he had offended and was a very nice person again. That was maybe 6 or so years ago, and since then our friendship/marriage had been fine, lovely actually. At our 25th anniversary, we even had a wedding vow renewal service, and H was literally moved to tears.

His long deployment went well, and he was faithful up until nearly the very end when he met this woman he enjoyed being with and started spending a lot of time with her. They did a lot of recreational stuff together, which met one of his ENs. He was still "with me" up until he left for his final stint over there, and that's when he walked right into full-fledged physical adultery without looking back.

So now those old monsters have been dredged up yet again along with the cruel hurt of this affair. I wonder if I am just unwise to stay. Maybe he will never change. Maybe I will never be able to get past all of this. Maybe his character is deeply flawed and it's for someone else to deal with. Me? I'm weary of it all.

So it's been about 5 months since D-Day, maybe 4 months or so into actual recovery, and all this old once-forgiven stuff is thrown up again. H had promised absolute fidelity some years ago and was so loving, so sorry he had been such a jerk for those years. So much repentance. Then he pulls this incredibly destructive behavior and now I am feeling lost, angry, sad. All of my choices at the moment suck. If I stay, we have to work through this. If I leave, as I sometimes so badly want to do, I'm saying goodbye to the good things we had once in our marriage. I have only just this morning said, "Okay, I will stay for a while, but only if I never see you angry or defensive and that you will not fall into a depression again. I can't deal with all the crap AND your depression, too." Probably sounds selfish, but I'm at the end of the rope.

H has been persistent in meeting my ENs during this time, even losing weight to please that EN. I have worked hard to meet his, too, although it's been tough for me at times, because I feel so deeply hurt. It's hard to be sexually aroused at the same time I'm feeling terrible about his choices and wondering if I should stay with him. But there are times it's farther away and then I can enjoy a nice time with H.

A poster to another thread asked if the BS would choose the spouse all over again, if the marriage had an expiration date. My immediate thought was not that only would I NOT choose this man again, I now wish I had never even met him. But, and here's the difficult part, he can be so loving and wonderful and tender. It's like a Jekyll and Hyde. But to have the good one, I have to deal with the bad one. When I look at our marriage through the MB lens, I see that for long periods of time, the ONLY EN H met for me was that of financial support; all the others were neglected for long periods of time. I was ignored while he worked long hours, not consulted in many of the big decisions, lied to, and defrauded of marital sex in exchange for masturbation. He gained about 50 pounds over the course of our marriage, and one of my emotional needs is an attractive spouse. Sorry, just can't stand a lot of fat on my man. I look back and wonder how could I have stayed all these years with so little to work with at times. But then, things would get better and be so good. At this time, H has promised to meet my ENs and promised extraordinary precautions, has provided me with his email PW and we now share one FB account. We are doing the UA time. Maybe it's not enough. But it all seems too late. Is it too late? What would you do? Would counseling with the Harley's help?

I'm really sorry this is so long, but to condensing 31 years into a paragraph or two is hard for me.

Hi 51CD30,

You say H has promised to meet your EN and be transparent. So how is he actually doing? It sounds as though he is working on the attractive spouse by losing some weight? Do you do things together - working out/sports, cooking together? How about the other ENs? Do you have current agreement about financial matters?

AM

Yes, H has lost weight. I was so disgusted with his weight last year that I told him I had been considering having an affair. I know that sounds terrible, but now I realize that I was complaining, letting him know how much his weight bothered me. I didn't cheat in any form, but I did consider it from all angles, then decided I would not do so for the many risks and wrongs involved. He began to lose weight in earnest at that time and now has only about 15 pounds to go to get to his goal. His lady friend didn't mind his weight at all, which was a plus for him. One of his ENs is admiration and this was sorely lacking in relation to his physical attractive to me.

Since No Contact, H is everything I had always wished for in a husband right now. He is being affectionate and tender, passionate, and we do things together that we both enjoy. It's been my job ever since I took over finances to handle that part of our life now, although I always let him know what's going on. So the finance part is no longer a problem. I mentioned that because it's part of all the things that went wrong in our marriage that have all come back to haunt me. Maybe I'm taking this all wrong?

The problem is now that although he is being wonderful, I no longer feel safe with him. It took a long time each of those other times to fall back in love with him again and trust him. Now I wish we had MB back then, or things would certainly have been different now. I don't even know how I feel at this time. Maybe I must love him, but I don't know. It feels pretty broken. He would have to keep on doing this "great husband" stuff for a long while, and I am not sure he's capable of it. Mostly I am ANGRY about how impulsive the affair seemed to be, how completely unexpected, and that no one informed me. He was so deep in the fog when we came to this place, he remade marital history and then decided I would be happy about his meeting the soul mate because I could go "home" now. When the fog lifted, he said the difference was like night and day and he could see the damage and wondered why he did that. Good memories of our marriage flooded his brain suddenly and he was deeply sorry about the adultery. I know his remorse is real, his love seems real, but I wonder if it will last. That's the part I am most concerned with. Is this a lasting recovery?

Everything you detailed above in your M life was a lack of POJA and PORA. Your old M was also filled with love busters and lack of care (fulfilling each others ENs)
Notice I say Old M? With these strategies employed for life. I do believe that is what a M should be and its also one you can bask in.
The resentment and pain you feel today will go away more and more as you adopt a new way to live your M.
I am no better than my WW. Her selfish acts were a mirror of mine. There was no care in our M. No honesty and Independent behavior. Thats no way to live.

One other comment. I think the feeling of safety comes from transparency and extraordinary precautions. My H has become totally open with his feelings, plans and actions. In addition, he has a written list of EPs that he follows. These two things have been very helpful to me. I stil have my down times, but they are not near as frequent and don't last as long. It is getting better and better with time.

AM

Just an update....Things are going better in my head this week. Must have been that roller coaster ride we all talk about and dread. So that was a bad few days on my part--bad thoughts swirling around. No LBs from H at all, just lots of deposits. So I started really working on concentrating on those-the good things that are happening NOW; it's a big effort at times. FWH repeats the EPs to me frequently so I know he remembers them.

One really helpful technique when I go crazy trying to figure out the "How could you DO this?" is to read the posts of others. All the WSs seem to go down the same path once they start walking that road to adultery. It's like a cancer or some other disease, in which you can just expect certain symptoms to occur. That part was so darned amazing and sad to realize. When I first read them to my H five months ago when I found this site and he was open to listening to some reason, he was humbled by knowing his experience was not unique or special in the least. The whole "soul mate" thing, the rewriting of marital history, the ILYBINILWY speech, the trashing of his family, everything...his adultery had all the symptoms of all the other wayward spouses out there. Just reading that helped the both of us, oddly.

So thanks again for your encouragements. This is a marvelously helpful site.

Im glad all is going better for you and I so understand the Crazy days. We all trust and hope they get better...and they do.

A little update...The occasional really bad day still happens, but I find there's almost always some trigger.

The most recent one was watching (okay, I'm embarrassed about this) "Glee." Was in the library and H thought I might like seeing it, since I was recently in a group that sang a medley from the show. What a mistake. Not only did it NOT count for our UA time, the more I watched that married male teacher with the guidance counselor, the more disgusted I became, because in my mind, I kept seeing my FWH and OW instead. Finally after a few episodes, I blew up. Started small but then turned into a full-on AO when I told my H I hated him for what he did. Sigh. So we turned the set back in to the library, vowing to be more careful.

Other times are during SF; being in my own mind is a bad place sometimes. Images of OW swirl in my head and make it really hard. AUGH! So finally I suggested music would help. Only there are triggers in some of the songs. So we went through a bunch of songs and found some really nice ones that are "safe" and enjoyable. Hoping that it works out better.

As time has passed and we have created a new lifestyle for ourselves in this new place we have moved to temporarily, I take some comfort in knowing that I am sharing some things with FWH that OW never can. We have hiked some beautiful trails and agree that for both of us, this is most lovely place we have ever lived. He says very often how glad he is that I didn't leave him, that I am still here, even though there are still some tough days. He's more affectionate and loving than ever before. Still can't quite take in the difference in him.

We tried golf for the first time ever. Pretty lousy at it, but it didn't matter, because the course was so beautiful.

We learned a really fun strategic board game that we both enjoy; meets both RC and our UA time. Perfect.

Still not sure how I feel about him, whether it's a romantic love or a caring love or what, but I will give it time and eventually I'll figure out how I feel. H says every so often how much he wants to earn my love and respect back. Very humble. He's never been like this before.

It's hard NOT to talk about it, but you are all correct in that talking about it most often makes the whole thing worse. Kind of like stirring up a pile of poop. Just makes it more stinky and gross. There's really no resolving it. It can't go away. I can have a marriage with infidelity in the past, or I can have no marriage with infidelity in the past. Thirty-one years is a lot to just give up on with a H who is promising to follow MB for life.

Well, this pretty much sounds like a normal course of recovery.

For a long time, the only music I listened to was Italian and Greek tenors. I had not clue what they were singing about and there was no danger of being triggered from the lyrics.

TV shows are another story. We pretty much stuck to reality shows. Even then, we had an issue last year when H wanted to vote on-line for a singer who sang "Lips of an Angel". H said he had no idea the song was about an affair. In any case, it developed into a problem. I thought H was insensitive and H thought I was upset over something that he did inadvertently. Later, Dr. Harley's advice was that we POJA EVERYHTHING, to include who to vote for on the reality shows.

We play golf together as well and we both are terrible. That is why we only play golf together. And the bugs have been so bad this year, sometimes the golf has not been as much fun as it could be.

SF is still an occasional problem. My H's A was intensely physical and it was very frequent. There is alot there for me to get past. Yesterday, I was down because I need to buy new lingerie. During the A, one time I was shopping and H made fun of what I was buying and then a few weeks later bought OW lingerie. There is no way I can shop when he is with me. I think my best approach is to shop online.

Best to you.

AM

I love your musical ideas! Someone posted a thread asking how get the adultery thoughts out of the mind of the BS. Not too many people answered. I guess that means not too many ideas. I had no idea that so many triggers existed. I hate even hearing wedding songs about promises or songs I used to sing along with on the radio while FWH was deployed. He thought it would be great to include in the play song list, "Unchained Melody." I immediately said NO, because that was one I used to sing along with, and one of the lines is, "Are you still mine?" No way did I want that included.

For a month or so after D-Day while I was still in shock and some disbelief, I had some fun buying little cute lingerie (part of the hysterical bonding.) Then reality truly settled in, and I would pick up a little naughty something I had purchased and had actually worn, shove it deep into the back of the drawer and shout, "F*** those red panties. I'm never wearing them again!!" And I never use the F-word but in the case of the lingerie, I did. Who knows how to predict what goes on in the mind of the BS?

FHW told me the other day, while he was on a few days of vacation with me, that he would like to do a vow renewal. I looked at him with some great surprise. "Why would we want to do that? The first vows didn't "take", and neither did our 25-year anniversary renewal vows." He hung his head and said he knew. I suggested we use the MB Online Memorandum as a kind of jump off point into a renewed marriage. He liked that idea. They are specific promises we are making to each other to meet specific needs and avoid specific love busters. Plus there's accountability.


Best to you, too, Armymama. Adultery sucks. I wish it was against the law.

51CD30,

Again, all normal. I did the very same things, to include not liking anything about other people's weddings (why would they want to get married anyway?), to tossing nightgowns and lingerie, to telling H I did not want to renew vows.

There was a thread on this forum dealing with triggers and BS management of memories. It was a pretty good one. I will look for it and give it a bump.

We are planning our 29th anniversary for the end of the month. We are taking a weekend trip, attending a jazz festival and a dinner cruise on the Saint Lawrence River. I think it is good to have these small get-aways. Our 25th anniversary stunk. H was at a military school, went out to a bar alone, and did not answer my phone calls. He was at the beginning of the emotional part of the A.

If you like classical tenors, try Alessandro Saffina, Mario Frangoulis and Vittorio. None of them sing many songs in English.

AM

Oh yes to the music triggers!! I tend to put on music without words, some of the dance stuff can be good too as you get a rhythm going KWIM!!

Sometimes a track does trigger me, I have to just close my ears for a while.

Your timeline is similar to mine, yes I know the rollercoaster all too well and there are still days when I could walk away, then he asks if he can do something, brings me a cup of tea unasked, kisses me on the way to another room, and I realise that although he is rubbish at talking about recover his actions are louder than his words.

He is still a plonker for what he did for so long, but........these days it feels more like he is my plonker!

I agree, it should be against the law. Why isn't it?

Little update...fewer adultery-related AO's these days, especially since we started the MB Online course.

FWW has continued his "program" of extraordinary care toward our marriage and to me. It's rather amazing to me that he has it in him to be so consistently loving, even when I've pushed him away due to my own anger or sadness. He has held me when I've sobbed and over and over comforted me with not just words, but actions.

We've been practicing POJA in the small things so we are prepared better for the larger things. Seems like baby steps at times, but at least we're moving forward. I still get very sad sometimes. Even though we had a nice weekend, I spontaneously started to weep while washing dishes after yesterday's breakfast; I was suddenly just SO sad about the adultery and resulting loss.

Last week, we suffered through a really bad few days, while I rehashed all over again whether I even want to stay in this marriage. Ugh. There are times when it seems like it would be so much better if I just never saw him again, but after this hard time was over, we agreed that we would continue to "work the plan." We must give ourselves time.

We went over our EN questionnaires and he had moved Affection up to his top five. That surprised me and I asked him about it. He said little signs of affection would show him I don't hate him. So I tried to do things like touching his leg, reaching out to hold his hand, that kind of thing. On our hike this Sunday, he stopped for a bit to think and finally said that I was doing the affection just great and he was very happy. What he truly wanted was for me to be able to look into his eyes and tell him that I love him. The one thing I can't do right now, and he knows it. But what surprised me was that his very saying this, his openness and honesty about his deepest desire for affection of that sort, deposited love units. He was humble, especially knowing I haven't been able to say I love him for months now.

What are AO's? Thanks for the helpful words of wisdom on my post. It helps to know that I have people out there that are experiencing the same mood swings, thoughts, and feelings and that there is hope that I can heal and still be married to the same person. By the way, Azores is a small place, I've been there. You need a good hobby or you're going to go stir crazy!

AO is shorthand for Angry Outburst. Check "Notable Posts," where you will find a list of the shorthand on this site. I would link it in, but I don't know how to do that.

The roller coaster is a sad truth for betrayed spouses. This forum has been very helpful for me; can't imagine getting through this without it. The vets and others give me hope that the roller coaster will one day slow down and maybe even stop. They give me hope that I will one day feel "normal." Maybe I will be able to tell my H that I love him.

Yes, this island is very small, but thankfully H's work schedule is amazingly pleasant, which leaves us lots of time for Undivided Attention, meeting emotional needs, and working on MB homework. We love to hike and have done all the marked hikes here, as well as several unmarked trails; we plan to visit the other islands and hike those trails, too. We have great Internet access, which helps keep us in touch with family and friends back home.

As horrible as adultery is, we can be thankful our spouses are remorseful and want to create a better marriage. When I feel really down, I have to remind myself that it could have been much worse. My H might have continued to be wayward, and our marriage could have been over.

Good luck with your recovery. I wish you and your wife well. It sounds like she has seen the reality and wants her marriage back. If we had discovered and followed MB years ago, this adultery would never have happened. We would have known how to avoid it. Your wife made a terrible mistake, but with MB principles well in hand, not only will it never happen again, but your marriage will be wonderful.

I have a question about the Extraordinary Precautions:

My H willingly agreed to all of below.

1.) No contact ever again with Affair Partner
2.) Total Transparency with spouse:
a. Email passwords shared
b. Accounting for all time and money
c. Eliminate all social networking sites, except for shared FB account
3.) No communicating with a female in any other way than the necessary professional manner needed for work
4.) No intimate conversations with a female (no conversations about anything personal, such as likes, dislikes, marriage, music, etc)
5.) No flirting, no inappropriate conversations or jesting. No �boobs or butts� comments ever.
6.) No porn, no �adult� clubs or shops, no chat rooms
7.) No nights apart. I will find a way to include spouse.
8.) No recreational activities with the opposite sex.
9.) No interactive online games.
10.) No business mentoring with a woman.

He seems to have a habit of rather flirtatious charm. I have had to speak with him a couple of times about inappropriate joking around with women. Just today, I checked his email. One of his emails is to the HRM here and he calls her "My Flower." Geez! What the h*** does it take to get a FWH to pay attention and actually PRACTICE the EPs?

So other than the periodic questioning and an apology, what else can I possibly have up my sleeve when he does not strictly adhere to the EPs. Do I leave for a week or so to really let him know it's bothering me tremendously? Do I just keep pointing it out?

Other than that and what I think is some PTSD, I think we've been doing pretty well. I did wake up this morning very early from stressful thoughts of the affair. I hate that. This has really been a terrible 12 months for me, what with moving away from my life and to a remote island and discovering the adultery. Traumatic.

I empathize with your situation, 5. I have felt many of the same emotions you describe in your post. Like you, I sacrificed a great deal to follow my husband and have lived HIS life for the past 30 years only to be betrayed more than once.

Like you, some days I just want my own life. Like you, I startle awake in the middle of the night with anxiety (although Xanax helps, lol). Like you, I fear that I will be betrayed again. But I love my husband, and I continue to work on the marriage.

Some days I get angry with myself for not giving up and going it alone. I know I would be fine financially and emotionally and fantasize about how fulfilling my life could be. I've loved my husband for nearly 40 years, and, frankly, I would miss having him in my life.

It's particularly difficult to end a marriage as long as yours. Take your time, and make sure that whatever decision you make is right for YOU. While you're trying to recover, some days will be good and some will be bad. It's not a straight line progression from point A to point B. While Dr. Harley says that it takes two years to recover from an affair, many on this forum will tell you that, for them, it has taken even longer.

I'm sorry that you feel isolated where you are now, but know that you have friends here.

Getting close to the first anniversary will probably feel awful.
It does get better.
I promise.

It sounds like he has very inappropriate boundaries in the workplace and I would insist that he get out the habit of flirting ASAP. I would not let up until he stops and keep in mind, EPs are not negotiable. Do you have a key logger on his work computer?

Thank you all so much. It helps so much to know I can post here and everyone truly understands.

I don't have a keylogger on his work computer, but I have his work email password and can remotely access it from home..which I do a few times throughout the day. Probably sounds compulsive, but I figure he would get sloppy at some point, and I'd have to be quick to catch it. I check inbox, sent, deleted, junk. Once I even checked his outlook rules and found his old rule set up for emails from OW and the few people related to that situation that sent all those emails to a particular folder in his inbox. H removed that rule right away.

I forced myself to think rationally before H came home yesterday from work. Since NC day, H has been consistent in meeting my ENs and avoiding LBs; he has followed all the EPs except the one about women in the workplace, which has become a bad habit with him. H defended the practice at first, saying he wanted things friendly at work, but he backed off that stance and appeared to agree with me that that level of familiarity is not needed for people to "feel comfortable" in the workplace. I told him that many professionals would feel odd or even offended at being called "My Flower" or any other term of endearment. Other people might well take it the wrong way and think it means more than it possibly does.

It doesn't matter anyway--the practice simply isn't acceptable to me. If he can't or won't change, then I can't live with him anymore. I've been through too much. He was trying to be careful in his response and not come across as upset in any way. Instead he came across as withdrawn, and I suddenly became very weepy, as though there was no hope for us. Sigh. I mean I burst into a full-fledged crying melt-down. (Not usual in my pre-A life.)

H just sat and held me in his arms and stroked my hair and kept saying "don't cry; you're safe," over and over. He started to choke up a few times himself. Finally I felt calmer.

H got up to recall the email and rewrite it, promising he would pay much closer attention to his boundaries with women.

Yes, I am dreading this time of year with all the anti-versaries. It was hard moving into August, because that's when the full-fledged PA started.

I feel a very different person inside than the one I was before. I was always considered to be strong and resilient and adventurous, but I think I have hit my limit.

My posts are always longish...sorry about that.

And....thanks again for your time and thoughts. I have truly appreciated it.

You ARE strong and resilient; otherwise you wouldn't still be there trying to recover your marriage. It takes a whole lotta strength to rebuild a marriage.

"Making work fun. . ." yeah, that's the line my WH used too. In my WH's case he was hula hooping with his female subordinate. . . inside the same hula hoop.

You're going to have to be very vigilant about boundaries, until your H really gets what's appropriate and what's not.

Good that he revised the e-mail and comforted you when he saw how upset you were.

51, you are right, that is extremely unprofessional.........and creepy. My H did this exact same thing and when he didn't stop, I told him I would pass on the marriage and he could leave. I have no desire to be married to a workplace weasel who flirts with women at work. Most women look at men like that and go "ewwwwwwwwwwwww what a creepo." It is not funny or attractive at all. They are creeps and an embarrassment to their wives. I won't be married to a man who embarrasses me in public.

What drove it home for my H was when I asked him if it was ok for my male co-workers to call me "babe" and "hon?" He went white as a sheet when I said that. I still check his computer from time to time and have confirmed he has truly changed. I would not tolerate anything less. I have no desire to be married to a weasel.

51,

Sorry you are going through this. I was uncomfortable with some of the things my H was doing in his interactions with women (even though he would insist that he was practicing EPs). I wrote to Dr Harley about this on the private forum and this was his response:


Hope this helps.

Important caveat to this statement: Dr. Harley is usually quoted as saying that "if after two years your marriage isn't better than it was" or "better than it's ever been", it might be time to hang up the cleats.

"Recovered" is a nebulous word to many. The real benchmark you're shooting for is "is my marriage better today than it was before the affair?" If it is, great! Keep doing the right things and you can improve it even more. If it isn't, you want to evaluate if it can be made better.

If after two years of trying, your marriage isn't any better than it was before the affair, Dr. Harley's usual recommendation is separation. Not immediate divorce, but a separation in an attempt to "wake up" the reluctant spouse from their abuse or neglect. If this attempt is unsuccessful, then the next step is to file for divorce. That may also "wake up" the reluctant spouse... but if it doesn't, a divorce is the next step in the progression.

Even then, sometimes a divorce marks the beginning of a new life together for some couples.

I guess what I'm saying is that "recovery" isn't a destination. It's a journey. If your marriage is better than it ever was two years after the affair -- as mine is today -- many would say you're "recovered". I say that I'm enjoying having the time of my life with my wife.

Thank you all for your help with the EPs. My FWH has agreed that in the future, women will be addressed by:

1.) First name
2.) Miss or Mrs. Last Name
3.) Ma'am (that's what our dear chaplain calls all the women, and it works!)

Otherwise, the EPs are going well. Still working the Online Course, which has been very helpful, since it's so targeted to problem areas.

My H says he no longer wants to be the man he was for so many years. He humbly admits he was very self-centered and immature. Wow. (I wanted to emphatically agree, but I just held my tongue.) He demonstrates his love on a daily basis, which is unparalleled in our 31 years of marriage. It's been 10 months pretty much without letting up. Amazing, really.

Oh, I still have my roller coaster, although it's not as volatile as earlier after D-Day. Last weekend, I felt just so terribly sad...mournful, even...about the loss we suffered. But he just continues doggedly on meeting needs.

Our lifestyle changed drastically with the move to this island. The slowed, often leisurely pace has been so beneficial to our healing, because we spend a lot of time together with few distractions. As much as we both miss family and the grandchildren, and I very much miss my work, this enforced togetherness is just what we needed for healing.

One new habit we started a few months ago. (I can say this on this lovely but anonymous forum, right?) When H would like to enjoy some SF, he calls me from work and asks me to meet him in bed...birthday suits only. Sounds so perfunctory, but it's not. We lie there for a while, talking a bit and being affectionate, so it's a nice time for both of us.

We took Armymama's suggestion and H downloaded a bunch of Italian songs for SF time. No triggers since we can't understand Italian. Works great. Yesterday afternoon, there we were, passionately embracing, when the song "Adeste Fideles" starts, otherwise known as "Oh, Come all Ye Faithful." I burst into laughter and asked him what was next "Hark the Herald Angels?" He looked chagrined and said he had downloaded the songs without really looking at them.

On that long road toward recovery....

51CD30,

That's a great update.

I really like the story about the Christmas song. Try some songs by Vittorio, Mario Frangoulis or the group Il Divo. Just don't get the holiday CDs.

I have never really been a Bocelli fan though.

AM

51CD30,

Your comments this morning on AEK's thread were wonderful.

AM

51CD30:

I couldn't agree more with ARMYMAMA on your comments to AEK.

Nice work!

Thank you for your kind comments, ArmyMama and SweetPea. I appreciate it very much! I hope the young woman can find some kind of peace in her terrible dilemma.

Last week, I read a book by a popular Christian author about a young pastor and his wife. Over time, the pastor became very ambitious and moved forward with many items on his own agenda without enthusiastic support from his spouse, much less the elders. It is very interesting reading books now with MB always in the background of my mind.

So anyway, to the bottom line, three quarters of the way though the book, the threat of adultery begins to loom. After that, although it was a sure trigger, I could not put the book down. I wanted to see how the wife and family and church handled this. I literally wept through the final quarter of the book as I read the emotions of the betrayed wife. I mean tears running down my face; it was like reliving the whole thing all over again, but in someone else's situation. My H realized I was not in bed and came downstairs (completely naked, for heaven's sake) to make sure I was okay. He held me while I told him what I was reading, but I assured him that, really, I was okay and would be fine in spite of the streaming tears.

The wife in this book went through all the same conflicting emotions I did: hatred, love, betrayal, disillusionment. The H was not remorseful at first, but after a few days, the fog began to lift. It was an incredibly realistic "story" of what actually happens in adultery. Wow.

So in the end, the pastor confesses to his church and steps down from his pulpit and the couple moves together to another location to do something else instead....this time in complete agreement. There really was no "happily ever after;" instead, there was the journey to recovery.

The story didn't make me mad all over again at FWH, because he swears he is a changed man, just like the pastor in the story, who also wanted to turn completely away from the man he had been up to that point.

I know...kind of a blog sort of post, but I was so surprised at my emotions just reading that I felt like I HAD to tell someone. Who else understands but the MB forum folks?

Recovery is going pretty well these days. Annoyingly, I still think about the A on a daily basis, but I don't talk about it. I don't even cry about it anymore, unless I read about someone else going through it. I'm past the stage of anger, which was dreadful, but in a way easier than the stage of sadness.

When I first began to feel like I was beginning to love my H again, I would question the whole character thing all over again. I was periodically afraid to become vulnerable again by allowing myself to love him again, you know what I mean? But in order to really love again and receive his love I kind of have to allow that vulnerability.

My H shows his remorse in how well he treats me. He truly acts like a man in love.

It was very hard on me emotionally to move here with my H and go through D-Day just three weeks after arrival.
What is really surprising to me is that after almost three years of living apart, we were just going to continue living separately if he had been stationed in the US. I look back aghast at our crazy thinking! If we had done any thing other than what we did, which was to move away and live together again, I doubt our marriage would have survived after the PA started.

H works regular full-time hours for the most part, instead of the long hours required in other locations; I had to give up working for the most part because of being in a foreign location with rules about priority hiring, so I'm only doing a few hours of remote work and volunteering. But the upside is that we get lots of UA time, which has been great.

The SF is on a scale not seen before in our 31 years of marriage, which surprises both of us. Maybe we're still in hysterical bonding stage, who knows? Who cares! We're having fun with it. H has become very affectionate with me, I think it's the most affectionate he has ever been with me. The affection makes it very easy for me to meet his need for SF. He'll call me up from work and ask me to meet him in bed. Gosh. That's kind of new for us! (Sorry if TMI!)

Like you, I don't cry about it any longer.

I still get resentful (even just last night)toward W from time to time, feel like she 'got away with the crime', so to speak.

Doing a better job NOT thinking of the A at all, but admit probably still too much than I should be at this point....yes, still feel vulnerable to allow myself to fully trust, love.

(And, yes, the SF has been incredible...even after an hysterical bonding phase...)

W has been great about it, even my 'down' days...yesterday, she got a little choked up -- said she is 'madly in love' with me and our marriage -- never thought she could be this happy, and will do anything/everything to protect our marriage.


Just gotta keep moving forward...

Thank you for sharing!

I felt the same way you sometimes do about your W "getting away with the crime." I have to remind myself that my H hates what he did. He does try not to think about it, because it causes him great pain. It sounds like your W is very remorseful and perhaps feels this same pain of regret.

The only way I can get close to how H feels (and maybe to how your W feels) is going back to my pre-marriage days. I lived a pretty yucky life for a few years there, the result of trying to get men to fall in love with me by using my body. Later, I was truly horrified by my behavior. Although I had made no vows at that point, what the heck was I doing to myself??!! When I married my H, I vowed I would never ever again be immoral in that way. And I never was. I knew what it looked like and what it felt like, and it felt terrible. I have no feelings of "if only" with any of those guys.

When H and I talked about it, he kind of gets that. That's the way he feels about OW now. At first, yes, absolute infatuation and addiction. He was ready to dump his whole family, even his beloved grandchildren, so he could be with her. After seeing the devastation this caused, he has no feelings of "if only" at all. He says he wishes he had never let her get close, that he had behaved properly, even that he had never met her at all.

Almost daily, he thanks me for being here with him and for giving him this chance to build our marriage.

Sounds like we're in similar places. I am so thankful for finding Marriage Builders. I felt like I was crazy and stupid for considering staying with an adulterer, even a remorseful one. I mean, how desperate and dumb could I be? So I googled "reconciliation after adultery" and found MB. Best thing that could have happened after D-Day.

Good luck to your and your W. I'm so happy that she is repentant and wants to have a good marriage with you. Recovery is really hard, harder than I would have imagined. This forum is such a great resource.

I couldn't agree more.

My last post probably sounded more callous than I meant...I mean, jeez...she daily thanks me for being her husband, for 'flattering' her in staying married and working through recovery with her, for being her partner, for saving her...

...just last weekend she said to me "he (OM) left me a sick woman, a sick woman..." and has repeatedly expressed her own shame, giult, 'WTF was I thinking'...it sounds stupid of me to even question the 'getting away with it', but I guess that's the trauma speaking at times.

And yes, ironic that after dday I googled 'how to survive an affair' -- and up popped MarriageBuilders...thank God for that.

It saved me, my marriage, my family.

Thank you!

I concur with the above posts.

I get a weekly thank you for forgiving her. I have SF that I never even dreamed of.

The only real obstacle I see is me. My need to sometimes run the bad images thru my head which only results in a low moods. Low moods that I try my best to hide so not to rock the recovery boat.

That she is beyond remorseful and beyond embarassed and beyond regretful for putting her family in jeopardy is what has made the last 5 months possible.

I know she went willing to him, but she's still stuck with the feeling that she was used and its taking a lot of her gumption to right herself mentally and gain confidence.

Things have been pretty good here lately.

Mike,

Wow...was thinking the other day that it is I who is a stumbling block in our recovery at times...I who has more of the bad days...and I do NOT want to jeopardize the marriage we have now.

Being so thickheaded, I think it's taken me awhile to realize how yes, indeed, my W does understand OM would've said/done anyhting for the easy score, and that it wasn't being 'in love' or anything close, just a fantasy...

For some reason, that comment she made at the park the other day about the OM leaving her a sick woman really sunk in, really resonated. Maybe speaking of him in this light was the first time I really heard her vocalize disgust directly at OM?

I don't know, but I just remember what NG and HHH always state that whatever we BS's are feeling about the A/OP, the FWS's must feel twofold becasue they knowingly and willingly caused/participated in the tragedy.

Best wishes.

As we were friendly with her OMs family and they were in our social circle for years, my wife notably changed her tune about being social with them for at least the last 3 or 4 years.

She doesnt defend herself with that idea, she points out that her affection for him ended a long time ago. And, when I look back its clear she did plenty to remove herself from his midst but just not enough. It certainly doesnt say much that she elected to stay in her A while she lost much of the feelings for him.

This is where I attribute the addiction to what he provided her: some money, a credit card, and that cushy life she so much lived for. Life today for her is million times harder. She working a full time job and another full time job healing us.

I do believe her when she says she'd have it no other way. Living with a clean consience today makes thinking about her life pre-dday very painful for her.

That's one problem I have on the forums... a lot of forum-ites insist it's some kind of "character flaw" that a person had an affair. This directly contradicts Dr. Harley's position, which is that -- under similar circumstances -- EVERYONE would have an affair.

What are those conditions? Simply allowing a member of the opposite sex other than your spouse to meet your most important emotional needs. That's it. And learning to NOT allow anyone other than your spouse to meet those needs is not a natural thing for most people. It's work!

So ignore the character flaw question. If you allowed other men to meet your intimate emotional needs, you'd have an affair, too.

Mike,

Yeah, I know what you mean. I stated in an earlier post that my W, in thanking me for 'saving her', mentions that even when the PA was over, she kinda held on to contact to 'remain friends' because 1. the longer she delayed NC, the longer she delayed the pain of having to face herself and what she did and 2. she was so eff'd up, she really just didn't know/have the ability (addiction?) to eradicate herself from the situation.

She has stated that if I hadn't exposed and gotten OM fired from job -- which allowed her to clear her head (the fog?) -- she would've probably destroyed her life.

Like your W, mine also talks about her life now, our marriage, and says she'd have it no other way...Living with a clean consience today makes thinking about her life pre-dday very painful for her...that's my W as well.

Coming home from Yom Kippur services last week, which was a trigger in and of itself, W turned to me to say "There is no more comfortable feeling than being in this car, with you and the kids, at this moment. I'm exactly where I belong, where I need to be..."

Must keep following MB...it's almost becoming unthought of it's so routine now...

thanks.

Yes, DoNoMo, you're correct about that whole character flaw issue. Thanks for pointing that out to me. It's something I often forget.

While my H was deployed, I made a conscious effort to avoid most male company, knowing I was vulnerable with my H gone. I wanted my H to come home and not hear any gossip at all about me. But it was a decision that was hard at times, because I was lonely. I longed for a man's arm around me again. So, I avoided it. I also had accountability all around me; my family and friends always surrounded me. My H was able to live a secret second life with no real accountability. He met someone over there who was enjoyable to be with and let her get close. He swears never again will he have a female friend. (one of his EPs.)

MB is the first link after searching "infidelity and resentment."

Yup.

And so concludes the most miserable year of my life. D-Day was a year ago and a couple of days. No Contact started Dec 1st roughly. What a horrible and difficult year. More tears and anger and sadness than I thought was possible.

We've been helped immensely by the MB Online Seminar and the accompanying accountability program.

We've learned so much about what we did wrong for so many years. I never set any standards for recovery. I never demanded transparency. We went to traditional marriage counseling for nine months and still had tons of love busters. I look back and can't understand why no one knew anything about boundaries. No shared passwords, business travel continued, no accountability. It's no friggin' wonder the trouble continued.

What we did wrong would fill a book, but we know NOW what we need to do to make it right and keep it right.

I think a good analogy would be when I joined a popular weight loss program a few years ago to shed a few pounds that had crept on during my mid-40's. I had to go through my pantry and get rid of all the foods I could no longer eat, replacing them with the kinds of food that were better for me. The will power started at the grocery store. Knowing my will power to be very weak with temptation in the house, I had no choice but to refuse to allow it in the first place. This helped create the conditions that would allow me to lose the unwanted pounds and also keep it off.

In the same way, I have relied on my H's character and will power to keep him faithful under all conditions. It's not that my character was really any better. A couple of years ago, I did consider very seriously the thought of having an affair. My H was overweight and sloppy and I have always hated that. My problem is that with PA as one of my top five ENs, and very possibly at number one or two, most men around my age don't look real great. So that ruled out most of any possible APs. So one of the most important conditions could not be met. Also, I am practical enough to consider STDs as a real risk and didn't want that. Probably the biggest reason is that I had no male friends.

When I was a teenager, in the 70's, I was reading about all the Amer-Asian babies born as a result of American soldiers having sex with the Vietnamese women during the war. Suddenly I was very suspicious and concerned about my dad. He was away for two long years, with a year home in between. He and my mother were always very affectionate, always embarrassing us kids with their kissing and hugging. I asked my father how he managed to live for two years away from my mother. I mean, I pretty much had it written on my face and in my tone that I wondered how it could be that he had remained faithful with so many that had not been.

His answer stayed with me all the rest of my years, although he doesn't even remember the conversation. He looked me in the eye and said he had to live "like a monk." He told me frankly that he knew he could probably fall in love with someone else and not only did he not want to cause hurt to that unknown woman, he certainly did not want to hurt my mother and us children. So he went to the war having a plan of protection in place. While many of his compatriots hired house girls to do their housekeeping and become their bed partners, he avoided this huge pitfall. He said he was often incredibly lonely, but he stayed busy and wrote my mother a lot of letters.

Years later, I see that what he had done is to create boundaries for himself. My mother did the same.

I spent last weekend very sad and weepy, thinking that I had made a big mistake staying with my H all these years, even marrying him in the first place. I finally posted my question to Dr. H. in the private forum. He reminded me that a good marriage is partly about creating and maintaining good boundaries, that trust is possible under certain circumstances but certainly not under ALL circumstances.

So, a little over year since D-Day, I think there's hope for us after all. We know the bar has to be set high, we finally have transparency and an integrated life. My H jokingly says he's "addicted" to me. He has lost weight and looks very handsome.

Here's to Marriage Builders!

A little update on the LongWays:

We will soon become Lone Star residents, moving from our beautiful island home to the states again. We have loved living here; it has been a healing place for us, allowing us to live a very integrated life with lots and lots of UA time together, no commute and no family distractions.

The terrific thing about this upcoming move? FWH was requested to interview for this position and he said he needed a day to consider. He came home and we enacted the POJA, brainstormed, I mean, we really followed the MB rules on this.

My biggest concern was that since we will soon be living in the real, and much bigger, world, what would we need to consider to ensure our MB marriage continues just as strong?

So we have discussed the EPs and done a lot of advance planning on how to handle various situations.

Otherwise, all is going well. Thank God no more roller coaster. It has finally smoothed out.

Thank you to all you terrific MB'ers!

LongWay,
I have been following your story the past two years with great interest as my story has parallels ... I am finally doing better too, but it's been a long hard ride. I wish you well as you return to Texas and the next stage of your life.

Thank God, we have finally reached, and passed,the 2-year antiversary of D-Day and NC day. It has been a long and emotional roller coaster ride, but we have survived FWH's affair and have a marriage that is leaps and bounds better than before because of Marriage Builders. Extraordinary Precautions are a byword in our household now. We negotiate freely and spontaneously. We love the POJA.

H has been working relentlessly on meeting my ENs and avoiding LBs. Not perfect, but pretty darn good. I've been doing the same. He says that meeting my ENs isn't work at all; he loves doing it because he's in love.

Just like the Harley's say! "Meeting your spouse's needs is effortless when you are in love." I mean....WOW! It's true.

We are "in love" with each other in a way that has been unreachable for many many years. Now we can't imagine being apart. The only way we can understand how we chose deployment/separation as an option in a bad career situation was because we lived parallel lives and were not in love. In comparison to these days, I know I was not in love with H for many years. I loved him, sure, but it was a caring love, the kind of love you "do" because you promised to and to be faithful and all of that, but I avoided frequent SF with him, because his weight was always a problem for me. so maybe once a week. He was rarely affectionate or conversational and played computer games, so no RC. Hardly any UA time. Of course we weren't in love.

One of the tragic ironies of the timing of the affair was how it coincided with menopause. I had not had any real issues other than the minor inconvenience and discomfort of occasional "warm flashes." I never had the hot ones. Now they're gone. No other symptoms of menopause. I had determined years ago when I overcame the PMS "b*itchiness" (through behaving nicely and avoiding extra stress) that I would never be that way in menopause.

I have kept myself in shape and am healthy and active and have maintained a normal weight for my entire adult life. I didn't expect any problems with menopause.

The one thing that began to happen but I didn't realize it was that I had been losing testosterone. Just after D-Day, I turned 52 and for reasons unknown to me, I began having some trouble with my libido and with full sexual enjoyment. It didn't slow us down at all, because despite my difficulties, I was very happy meeting that need for H.

Having an O began to be a lot of work. I thought it was odd, because I'd never had that difficulty. When I had trouble "going over the top," I felt terribly anguished and inadequate, figuring that the sex during the A was terrific and thrilling and heated and the OW had Os all the time, and here I was having "foamers" constantly, for the first time in my life. At those times, sex for me in my mind was just tortuous. There were times I would weep over it, right there in the middle of it. Mental torture. H tried his best to comfort and reassure me but it didn't help much.

Finally when we moved back to the States this year, I read an article about the role of testosterone in men and wondered if it had any role in women. Turns out that it does indeed play a key role in sexual functioning, among other factors.

So bottom line is that I went to a doctor and after some tests and labwork was placed almost a month ago on testosterone therapy that involves a compound of testosterone in a gel. It takes some weeks for enough free testosterone to build up in the system but there do seem to finally be some sparks of life.

Every single morning, H holds me and while still in a sleepy daze always murmurs to me "I'm in love with you." It took me a long long while, but I finally started responding to him with "I'm in love with you, too."

Oh, thank God...

...and thank you Marriage Builders.

Thank you LWFH for sharing.

It's so nice to read wonderful updates. Also thank you for all your help around here.

indeed... thank you for the awesome update. It is great to hear you are back "in-love!"

So, the way our lives work here, is that every single Saturday morning, we have scheduled into our day a long and pleasant "lie-in." Only once or twice has anything ever interfered with it, and it always felt like a huge sacrifice when we had to give it up. It always includes an extra bit of coffee, enjoyed in bed, some chit chat and cuddling, and SF. I then make a brunch, usually frittatas, around 11AM.

This morning, our chit chat was stumbling along. I would pose out a topic, maybe a few questions, but H would answer briefly. And then stop. So I'd start out on another tack. He's answer briefly. Then stop. Sigh.

So I teased him,"You know, according the MB principles, we'd have to have a date of three hours before SF. And the conversation would have to be intimate."

A pause.

"You know," I continued, "We want to talk about things like hopes and dreams - that sort of thing. DEEP stuff."

Another, longer, pause.

H grinned at me. "Well, I'm hoping we get to make love. I'm dreaming about it!"

Even though he didn't exactly comply with my, uh, request for IC at the time, I still find that man irresistible.

Love it! Congrats to you both LWFH, what an amazing journey!

Aha!


But, remember... good conversation in the arena of opinion will open the door to those "deep" conversations.

One moment, you are waxing poetic about The Walking Dead on AMC and thoughts on the Zombie apocalypse, next thing you are talking about your dream zombie-proof love-fortress!

Love the way you write, my friend.

Thanks, as always, for sharing.

Slight thread jack but, I'm already building in my head my zombie apocalypse fortress. Kiss thinks I'm nuts

Love the Walking Dead!

I just got NGB started, she's a season behind.

We were watching Sons of Anarchy but she left me in the dust.

Having some mutually enjoyed shows drives a lot of conversation - as well as establishing mutual interests.

Good stuff.

So....yesterday morning at our Bible study class, in the moments before it started, an elderly lady came up behind my chair and leaned down to me. We had never spoken before (large class.)

She said, "I wonder if you would allow me to say something personal to you."

I replied, "Um, sure...go ahead." I wondered what in the world she could be about to tell me. Wearing jeans too often to Bible study? Was she going to ask me to help with serving snacks?

She said, "I just LOVE to see the way you and your husband interact with each other. You can see the love you have for each other. And...it's just wonderful."

Tears immediately sprang to my eyes. I stood up and hugged and told her it hadn't always been that way and thanked her for telling me.

When I sat down, my H asked me what she had said. I couldn't even answer for a few moments. When I did, then he had tears in his eyes, too.

Just feeling....blessed and happy.

Congrats!!!

Deservedly so! I am so pleased to read this, LongWay!

Thank you! We, neither of us, don't take our recovery for granted. It really does both people doing all the steps to make it work. It was a painful, difficult, and long process.

I don't think we've ever really been in love before this, now that I look back. We never had what we have now.

What an inspiration, thank you to both you and your H for "blazing the trail" for those of us that go after you.

P.S. and you are still such an eloquent writer

This is so nice!!!! What an observant person!

During our church service, there is always a time for "peace be with you". H always gives me a great big kiss at this time, tripping over the other people in the choir. Other choir members, especially the widows, often comment about it.

Thanks for sharing, my friend.

You and your DH are true MB warriors and it shows.