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#2545954 09/20/11 10:21 PM
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What defines a serial cheater as opposed to say long term affairs, or someone that had an affair 2x?

Is the road harder with multiple affairs or just different?


is serial cheating somehow worse than a long term affair? If so why? If not, why?

Is there less hope for recovery with serial cheaters?

I understand that even one affair is devastating. I don't want to minimize that at all. Just a few random questions running through my brain tonight...

CV


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Where to start. I have also considered some of these very things, as my WH is a serial cheater. The twisted path my life took because of this still has my head spinning. Some thoughts:

I have considered that having more than one affair is about the lowest thing a WWard can do. My WH had an affair 11/05 until he got sloppy in 2/06 and was discovered. He lied through his teeth. While I was still in the dark and couldn't figure out why we couldn't recover, he pursued another old GF 7/08. I discovered that one 9/09. Lied again. I even screamed at the screen when I saw he started a thread here, got terrific feedback and was lying through his teeth. I am beginning to think that after almost six years of this, he is still fogged out. Only revealed one affair and said he would try to get me to start a thread. Never mentioned anything to me. He doesn't know I post here now and then.

Still with me? lol! First A was PA, second EA with him as the instigator. BUT! The second one was worse for me. At the point of discovery, we were already separated. He was already living the consequences of lying about the first one. Saw the pain it caused me and the kids. Lived outside the house. Handled it the same way he handled the first one. Had to educate him that this was indeed another affair even if he didn't have sex with her. Eventually he would have. He lied, berated me, and tried to convince me of what he already convinced himself: it wasn't what I thought it was. MrRollieEyes

During this time he also managed to have a "fun" email dalliance with potential OW3 who offerred him sex two days before Christmas. My DD, who was 14 at the time intercepted that one. mad

Managed to tuck in a mission trip to Mexico with the church pastor and others who thought he was the best thing to come along since strained peas. puke Oy!

Is there less hope for recovery with a serial cheater? Well, it depends on what he/she decides to do. My WH did nothing but blameshift, excuse and lie. He managed to walk over every boundary I set. Dealbreakers were laughable to him. I used to think we could recover, now I just feel like a fool for wasting so much time. Personal recovery is now my gig.

Last edited by seeingclearly; 09/20/11 11:36 PM.

me: bw, 50
he: wh, 51

m: 1990
sep: 2007

dd: 18
ds: 14
dd: 11

multiple affairs: two with past gf's, one email dalliance.
Too many d-days to count. First one 2/06. After all this time, it's still my fault.

I've had enough. Divorce in progress.
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Dear Celtic Voyager:

This is something that I've been thinking about too.

I consider my husband (CGIR) to have had four affairs. One PA early in our marriage with co-worker, one ONS with a stripper-prostitute at a bachelor party, one "coulda-been" affair with a co-worker who either did not share an interest in having an affair or had some boundaries of her own and another PA with a different co-worker. Each affair (other than the ONS) lasted about a year and ended because the OW ended it. (But CGIR never did what it would have taken to continue the affairs either).

I have actually been considering taking some comfort in the fact that CGIR has been a serial cheater - one way of looking at it, I've been thinking, is that it shows the problem was within him. He was not with another woman because he met his match, "soul mate," whatever - he was missing something or looking for something not to be found in a relationship.

If OW #1 was so great, he could have left me to pursue her. We were only married a year and had nothing - it would have been easy. But he didn't.

The stripper was just about a BJ; no relationship potential there.

If he didn't have the courage to take the risk with "potential" OW #3, how great could she have been? He took the risk to ask me out when he was just a kid.

If he really wanted OW #4, he knew what he needed to do. But he didn't do it. In fact, he did some things that made a "relationship" unlikely, such as bringing her into his car and telling her to get out when he was done with her because he had to go home.

Through all the OW, he stayed with me, even though our relationship had become pretty, uh, "unpleasant" by the time OW #4 rolled around.

CGIR seems to have changed. Is the change permanent? I don't know. We had a conversation over the summer about a hypothetical situation, that had it come up, CGIR felt he would have lied to me about. (The situation did not involve an OP). But maybe that CGIR told me the truth about considering lying is a step toward truthfulness? I don't know - things get pretty convoluted sometimes.

For me, the test will be when CGIR gets a FT, regular job. For the past 3 years, CGIR has been unemployed, punctuated by limited-term contract work. Once he gets a steady job, employed by a company, and settles in, will he spot OW #5? All of his previous OW (except for the stripper) were co-workers.

If he could work a few years in a steady job without beginning another affair, maybe I could start to hope that our marriage will not end because of new infidelity.

I don't know if this is type of response you were looking for, but like you, the topic has been on my mind.

I just don't want to pursue this line of thinking if it's just denial/rationalization on my part. "D & R" got me a marriage marred by four affairs.

BV



Me - WW/BW - 49
Him - CGIR - WH/BH 49
Married 27 years, together 33 (HS sweethearts)
No kids
DDay #1 - 1989 EA co-worker
DDay #2 - 2004 internet porn
DDay #3 - July 2006 EA different co-worker
DDay #4 - Aug. 2006 EA with OW #2 was actually a PA
DDay #5 - Sept. 2010 False recovery - H dishonest about both affairs and porn usage
DDay# 6 - Sept. 26, 2010 - Full disclosure - 1989 EA was actually a PA and lasted one year. 2006 PA more extensive than originally thought. 1992 ONS with prostitute.
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Originally Posted by brokenvase
Dear Celtic Voyager:

This is something that I've been thinking about too.



I don't know if this is type of response you were looking for, but like you, the topic has been on my mind.

I just don't want to pursue this line of thinking if it's just denial/rationalization on my part. "D & R" got me a marriage marred by four affairs.

BV


I am thinking along those lines. My FWW had two affairs. there was 6, almost 7 years between them. Was not the pursuer for either. She posts here sometimes, and has come a Loooong way.

I guess what I am looking at is the "anatomy"of the serial cheater. Something along these lines...

serial cheaters are often, or often do these:

1. mainly initiators

2. cannot go for extended periods without pursuing an affair

3. Are not motivated by EN's, but by ????

4. know the repercussions but disregard them

5. ???

CV

Last edited by celticvoyager; 09/21/11 01:10 AM.

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Originally Posted by seeingclearly
Where to start. I have also considered some of these very things, as my WH is a serial cheater. The twisted path my life took because of this still has my head spinning. Some thoughts:

I have considered that having more than one affair is about the lowest thing a WWard can do. My WH had an affair 11/05 until he got sloppy in 2/06 and was discovered. He lied through his teeth. While I was still in the dark and couldn't figure out why we couldn't recover, he pursued another old GF 7/08. I discovered that one 9/09. Lied again. I even screamed at the screen when I saw he started a thread here, got terrific feedback and was lying through his teeth. I am beginning to think that after almost six years of this, he is still fogged out. Only revealed one affair and said he would try to get me to start a thread. Never mentioned anything to me. He doesn't know I post here now and then.

Still with me? lol! First A was PA, second EA with him as the instigator. BUT! The second one was worse for me. At the point of discovery, we were already separated. He was already living the consequences of lying about the first one. Saw the pain it caused me and the kids. Lived outside the house. Handled it the same way he handled the first one. Had to educate him that this was indeed another affair even if he didn't have sex with her. Eventually he would have. He lied, berated me, and tried to convince me of what he already convinced himself: it wasn't what I thought it was. MrRollieEyes

During this time he also managed to have a "fun" email dalliance with potential OW3 who offerred him sex two days before Christmas. My DD, who was 14 at the time intercepted that one. mad

Managed to tuck in a mission trip to Mexico with the church pastor and others who thought he was the best thing to come along since strained peas. puke Oy!

Is there less hope for recovery with a serial cheater? Well, it depends on what he/she decides to do. My WH did nothing but blameshift, excuse and lie. He managed to walk over every boundary I set. Dealbreakers were laughable to him. I used to think we could recover, now I just feel like a fool for wasting so much time. Personal recovery is now my gig.

I think with serial cheaters it *is* hard. There are so many more obstacles to overcome.

CV


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well, with my limited knowledge... I can only speculate on my own experience. I have a friend who has what i consider a sexual addiction who has had several affairs lasting up to 3 years he has no real love for the op just needs to fill some sort of personal gap....for some reason i understand this.....make no mistake i dont condone it but i may understand it a little..
w/ my affair things were really dark.. I was getting emotional needs met that were not met at home at the time......the feelings were the same as all ws????? still puzzeles me. when i was exposed the fog lifted immediately.....I understood what i wanted clear as water..
with my spouse, I think it may be lost love syndrom(my own word) she is her soulmate, she is willing to give anything and everything and is not willing to break it off even though i know about the whole thing...
yes there may be more partners to deal with but the depth of emotion of the so called soulmate is a tough nut to crack!

I Think and this may be a stretch to believe, but sometimes sex is sex......yes i know it is sacred, but to have your spouses heart and soul is the most important thing....If they want you but have issues their issues can be worked on if they are willing and able to do the work.

sorry if i offended anyone
still considered a newbie

Last edited by tryingtofeelgood; 09/21/11 08:52 AM.

Me: BH 40
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D Day July 11,2011
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Originally Posted by tryingtofeelgood
I Think and this may be a stretch to believe, but sometimes sex is sex......yes i know it is sacred, but to have your spouses heart and soul is the most important thing....If they want you but have issues their issues can be worked on if they are willing and able to do the work.

sorry if i offended anyone
still considered a newbie

TTFG,

do you think that with serial cheaters, there is simply no interest in relationship or en's being met by op? that what drives them is something different?



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Originally Posted by celticvoyager
What defines a serial cheater as opposed to say long term affairs, or someone that had an affair 2x?

Is the road harder with multiple affairs or just different?

A serial cheater is a person who has multiple affairs. I think serial cheating and long term affairs are equally hard to recover from. Dr Harley told me that serial cheaters tend to be addicted to AFFAIRS, whereas, your typical one time cheater is addicted to the person. A serial cheater, in order to recover, has to live a completely integrated, transparent lifestyle to recover.

I called Dr Harley back in 2006 and asked him what the difference is between a serial cheater and a one time cheater. Here is the radio clip" http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=578


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I truely truely think that with a serial cheater, and i am not a psych, only had one class in psych 20 yrs ago in college, there is always some sort of pain in the past. Maybe I am niave in thinking this, mind you I only know 1 individual....but I know him very very well. I dont know if he can help himself, I truely think there is a void somewhere in his persona, that makes him need for anothers something......I know he loves his wife above all else and loves his family. But i think he is driven by pain, and maybe if there was a way to crack him open and make him realize what he is doing and why, what the root cause of his need. then maybe he could see it for what it is,,,pain from the past and that need to have the space filled, would be ok left unfilled....just a divot in the armor of a great person.....which i know him to be
It is very tough to put myself in your position cause I am reeeling in mine....I am upside down and wishing my spouse was just being selfish and looking for simple sexual gratification....when there is a true relationship people are having their intimate needs met, that one is tough


Me: BH 40
WW 39
S13, D9
Married 15 yrs together 19!!!
D Day July 11,2011
WW in P.A. with OW
WW wants D
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Holy carp breath i have been spelling truly wrong my whole life....................argg what an idiot, see even really educated people are stupid sometimes


Me: BH 40
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thanks for posting cv- have been thru this in my mind so much.

I have a serial cheater, thats a fact.

and i mean alot!


"actually been considering taking some comfort in the fact that CGIR has been a serial cheater - one way of looking at it, I've been thinking, is that it shows the problem was within him. He was not with another woman because he met his match, "soul mate," whatever - he was missing something or looking for something not to be found in a relationship."

I agree with this statement. in that way it helps.

few things i can say:

I stinks beacuse you have to look over you shoulder for EVERYONE.

It was definately fulfilling a need, SF and Affection. but no interest in going any further than getting off. - but i dont think H could define his Affection need - it like the feeling that you know you are hungry but you dont what would satisfy you. so you eat it all and feel like crap.

But i take a little comfort in that he didnt care about any of them and it was a means to an end. typing this make me want to puke..

there was no emotional attachment so there is no withdrawal.

It was a game- like fishing i guess

I think i wouldnt be able to handle what so many here go thru with the Sole mate situation or one who is addicited to the OP, so i guess you really only get what you can handle

there are so many EP to maintain, and so many things to check and recheck and so many different points of potential contact. that makes it very triggerish

H says he is glad its over, its very hard to play the game all the time. and so many levels

i asked him to write about it and i have to reread to see if there is anything to say that is enlightening about multiples.

in recovery, very emotional, working with jennifer (just got pushed out of the nest) to look into online classes as a boost.


just a few thoughts.











Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
working the plan

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Originally Posted by tryingtofeelgood
I know he loves his wife above all else and loves his family. But i think he is driven by pain, and maybe if there was a way to crack him open and make him realize what he is doing and why, what the root cause of his need. then maybe he could see it for what it is,,,pain from the past and that need to have the space filled, would be ok left unfilled....just a divot in the armor of a great person.....which i know him to be

I dont disagree, i will try to find a link to our radio show ( back to back). I also know that as we are going thru this my H is learing many things about the needs in his life that were never filled and why he persued his actions. in addition to dealing with this mess he is also learing about emotions, feelings, communication, acceptance, shame, and love and many other things. for the first time! yes it is like he is being born into a whole new world and he says infact everything is so much more colorful with out all of the baggage.


Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
working the plan

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sorry I can find the link and i have to run but. it was on May 13th.



Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
working the plan

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by celticvoyager
What defines a serial cheater as opposed to say long term affairs, or someone that had an affair 2x?

Is the road harder with multiple affairs or just different?

A serial cheater is a person who has multiple affairs. I think serial cheating and long term affairs are equally hard to recover from. Dr Harley told me that serial cheaters tend to be addicted to AFFAIRS, whereas, your typical one time cheater is addicted to the person. A serial cheater, in order to recover, has to live a completely integrated, transparent lifestyle to recover.

I called Dr Harley back in 2006 and asked him what the difference is between a serial cheater and a one time cheater. Here is the radio clip" http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=578

Mel,

Now I can put a voice to the image in my wee little brain! Lol!

This is very helpful. As I understood what he said, even a person who has had only 2 or three affairs may *not* fit the bill of a serial cheater, because it isn't about the number so much as about *what* they are addicted to.

Now this fits with my thought that they are often the initiator, because someone who is addicted to the affairs and not the person will tend to pursue the feelings more than a particular person. Almost in a predatory way.

This to me is something very different from the person who has an A and breaks it off out of guilt and years alter has one not because the A was good or even a person, but because they never did what it took and took the attitude "well I am a pos" and gives up. Not that there isn't a host of other issues there, but the difference may be qualitative rather than quantitative if that makes sense?

Extreme narcissism, detachment issues, etc... all seem to play important factors with serial cheaters

CV





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Extreme narcissism, detachment issues, etc... all seem to play important factors with serial cheaters

CV



[/quote]

CV
You hit it right out of the park.....



My buddies w is also one of my good friends and has been part of my support system and has shared their sit. and that is exactly what she says about her H.....Dam How did you guys become so insitefull


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Originally Posted by celticvoyager
Extreme narcissism, detachment issues, etc... all seem to play important factors with serial cheaters

My STBxWH (currently on affair #4 which he started shortly after I went into Plan B) is a serial cheater.

I spoke to Dr Harley about this and he DID say that STBxWH has low self-esteem and that it plays a role in his going after women ~ that a good M (with ENs being met) isn't enough for him and he needs the extra boost/thrill to feel good.

At the same time he said he doesn't recommend looking at how to solve those types of childhood/underlying issues when trying to recover.

He emphasized looking at the conditions that made the affairs possible. [My translation: for a serial cheater, most likely stronger EPs will need to be in place.] So for my STBxWH he recommended (if we were to attempt R) that he change professions, most likely work out of the home, have no email, no cell etc. so that it would impossible for him to have an affair...


Ddays 2007 and 2011
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I have an aquaintance (can't really call her a friend) who has cheated on every husband she's ever had (she's scouting for #4 now).

She's a narcissist with a HUGE need for admiration. The second she gets settled into marriage, and the guys stop telling her she's beautiful every 5 minutes, she starts hitting the bars.

She knows it's wrong, but she has to have extreme admiration. She explained it's like crack to her.

So, to me, serial cheaters are addicted to the high, not the person. Once the high starts to wane, they need to refresh it with a new source. They don't believe in recycling :p


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Originally Posted by celticvoyager
What defines a serial cheater as opposed to say long term affairs, or someone that had an affair 2x?

Anyone who has had more than one A; does not necessarily have to be with a different AP...could be breaks with the same AP vs one LTA.

Quote
Is the road harder with multiple affairs or just different?

I would say harder and different.


Quote
is serial cheating somehow worse than a long term affair? If so why? If not, why?

Idk...both suck. I suppose worse is the one a BS has to deal with. I have to deal with serial cheating...to me it is worse because I could at least understand my WH being drawn, in lurve, addicted to one person. To have multiple APs seems more seedy and gross in ways...like he just want a warm body...a user. NC has to be with more than one AP as well...the logistics become more widespread...just simply math when you have more than one.


Quote
Is there less hope for recovery with serial cheaters?

Yes



BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




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Originally Posted by celticvoyager
This is very helpful. As I understood what he said, even a person who has had only 2 or three affairs may *not* fit the bill of a serial cheater, because it isn't about the number so much as about *what* they are addicted to.

Now this fits with my thought that they are often the initiator, because someone who is addicted to the affairs and not the person will tend to pursue the feelings more than a particular person. Almost in a predatory way.

This to me is something very different from the person who has an A and breaks it off out of guilt and years alter has one not because the A was good or even a person, but because they never did what it took and took the attitude "well I am a pos" and gives up. Not that there isn't a host of other issues there, but the difference may be qualitative rather than quantitative if that makes sense?

Extreme narcissism, detachment issues, etc... all seem to play important factors with serial cheaters

CV

Hmmmmm...I don't I agree that the serial cheater has to be a predator or initiator. The As can start as "innocently" as other As. I don't even think my stbx is a narcissist. Not a one size fits all IMO.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by celticvoyager
What defines a serial cheater as opposed to say long term affairs, or someone that had an affair 2x?

Is the road harder with multiple affairs or just different?

A serial cheater is a person who has multiple affairs. I think serial cheating and long term affairs are equally hard to recover from. Dr Harley told me that serial cheaters tend to be addicted to AFFAIRS, whereas, your typical one time cheater is addicted to the person. A serial cheater, in order to recover, has to live a completely integrated, transparent lifestyle to recover.

I called Dr Harley back in 2006 and asked him what the difference is between a serial cheater and a one time cheater. Here is the radio clip" http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=578

Loved hearing your voice!

I believe LTA's and serial cheater's moral compasses are off. Or they've allowed their consciences to become seered from repeatedly violating it.

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Throw a brick at me if you want, but I dont think they have a moral compass or conscience, I know i didnt. I didnt think about us, about my children about anything but me, and i dont think my ww is thinking about anyone but her right now....

now my buddy the serial cheater, thinks about what he is doing, i believe, and brick me for it if you want, he needs, i mean needs psychotherapy seriously......he knows the consequences.... and is very involved in making the right deceisions.....i just feel there is something missing.

let them fly....just my thoughts


Me: BH 40
WW 39
S13, D9
Married 15 yrs together 19!!!
D Day July 11,2011
WW in P.A. with OW
WW wants D
Almost done
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Back again on this one. NO my xwh was not the predator, but could easily fall victim and did two times to ow who WERE serial ow.

But he fell victim and IS a serial cheater because he wants that high. He wanted that constant high. He wanted somebody to giggle that sparkling new giggle when he'd recycle those old stories of glory days gone by. He wanted the trill of somebody new, somebody with a different body. Someone he didn't know. Somebody he didn't have to pay bills with, deliver a baby with, or watch a childbirth with. Somebody who would hero worship him constantly, new enough to KEEP HIM ON a pedastal.

That is what it is about for them. The addiction, the high, and the admiration. All intertwined. Fwiw, my xwh did not find his ow at work, but out and about. So the whole world would be a cheating hotspot for him.

So my xwh is and was NOT the predator seeking out the ow. He was weak with his boundaries and his unattainable lust for admiration and attention MADE him a target for predatory ow seeking a rich sugar daddy with looks.

He was part of a lethal affair equation. Something like this:
Need for constant 24/7/365 admiration + predatory gold digger ow + opportunity (could have been 30 minutes or a short while even with him) = an affair.

But to also add, YES MY XWH WAS AND IS A NARCISSIST of the highest order.


Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
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After his last affair, he married the wistress.

Began cheating on her almost immediately. FOUR and possibly more documented affairs on her, in a 5.5 year affairage.

Once she was no longer new, and a mommy with whom he had a very young child who NEEDED ATTENTION TOO, and a woman with whom he had to pay bills with, live life with, she lost all her appeal to him far more quickly than I did.


Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
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peachy:{But he fell victim and IS a serial cheater because he wants that high. He wanted that constant high. He wanted somebody to giggle that sparkling new giggle when he'd recycle those old stories of glory days gone by. He wanted the trill of somebody new, somebody with a different body. Someone he didn't know. Somebody he didn't have to pay bills with, deliver a baby with, or watch a childbirth with. Somebody who would hero worship him constantly, new enough to KEEP HIM ON a pedastal.} (Iforgot how to do that quote thing already!)

peachy, you said it exactly as I would. My serial FWH did not go looking for an A, but he put himself in all the right places. He traveled alot and hung out in bars with all the other guys he traveled with. 99% of them would get drunk and meet women (even had women on call to meet them). My FWH LOVED the admiration/being the center of attention and being told what a "cool/glamorous" job he had and (they thought) he made lots of money. Most of them were divorced looking for a husband and they did'nt care who they destroyed while getting it. (bar whores)

When FWH would get bored with one, it's on to the next.

I'm not sure which is more difficult to recover from, serial or one-time "soul mates". I don't think one may be easier to recover from, just a differnt type of pain.

I think either one, it's what/how the stich is dealt with. My FWH wrote a NC letter/email to all (I made him list all OW, even those he only talked to) And that was the end of it. There was one break of NC when a OW mailed him a "I miss you letter" to his work (before MB) and he did'nt tell me. After I found out, the hammer came down HARD!!

We have EXTREMELY strict boundries and he has followed them to the "T"

He knows if he EVER messes up again there are NO more chances.

I don't think he was ever really attached to any of the OW. He told all of them he would never leave me. Withdrawl for him was mild if that... I mean which one would you withdrawl from?








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Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

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Lgtex1 #2546196 09/21/11 04:13 PM
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I'm beginning to see that the only common denominator in each of our situations is adultery. There don't seem to be any absolutes. The basis is the same, circumstances are different.
It's always painful and it always breaks a heart.

As I was considering the the very same questions so many of us have, I also consider how many WWards really even know what adultery is. I know of a couple at my former church who left their spouses, moved in together, are now engaged and she is questioning whether or not what they are doing is actually considered adultery - after all, they were both unhappy in their marriages and deserve to be happy. WE can see this clearly, but to someone who is rationalizing because they are in it and want so bad to be right, may not even know and that is why they could've crossed over that line to begin with. After my WH first A, I actually had to educate him about adultery and what it really was and why God dedicated an entire commandment to it. I thought that was clear to him when he had his EA with someone else. Had to educate there too.

The more I see and the more I learn, there aren't too many out there, unless they have been touched by this themselves, who can really take a black or white stand on adultery. Maybe this is why adultery is so stinkin' common>

Last edited by seeingclearly; 09/21/11 04:15 PM.

me: bw, 50
he: wh, 51

m: 1990
sep: 2007

dd: 18
ds: 14
dd: 11

multiple affairs: two with past gf's, one email dalliance.
Too many d-days to count. First one 2/06. After all this time, it's still my fault.

I've had enough. Divorce in progress.
Lgtex1 #2546198 09/21/11 04:15 PM
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I remember one time my WXW and I were watching TV and they were talking about Tiger Woods.

WXW said, "I can't believe he would do this to his family."

It was almost surreal to hear her say it.

Is it worse to have sex with multiple partners and not fall in love to than to actually fall in love with some OP?

Hard to say what's more destructive. In the public eye, the sexual addiction probably makes for better news.

But as far as recovering a marriage, it would be my guess that they are both equally DIFFICULT to overcome.


BH(Me)=40
WXW=38
ILYBNILWY: 8/09
DDAY: 8/31/09
Two boys: 8,7
Divorced 3/23/2011

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Originally Posted by TryingEverything
I remember one time my WXW and I were watching TV and they were talking about Tiger Woods.

WXW said, "I can't believe he would do this to his family."

Ahhh... yes, there have been many things come out of my FWH mouth, while in the fog, that have made me say...WTbleep!!??


BS(me)
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Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

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Thanks for this thread CV.

I often wondered which category my H was on with he had his two overlapping affairs. He said that it was very dark for him during that time and he was very guilty and wanted to end it several times but both OW#1 & OW#2 threatened to tell me the truth and he was stuck. I don't understand why he kept on eating his own vomit.

I don't think I would consider with a serial cheater but someone who had multiple affairs. I know both women were predators and cast their nets wide and would do anyone that is willing. He treated them like dirt. But the women gave them the admiration that he had been craving for.

I had a very hard time dealing with his multiple affairs. But God is always good and we are recovering slowly. Sometimes, I don't want to work on it and my Taker pokes his head out and wants to give up and start new but I now have a H who is willing to work hard on recovery but even then my taker thinks he's not doing enough on his end for our recovery.

I do have a friend that is a serial cheater. I think if you look up serial cheater in the dictionary that her face would be on it. She is one of the most beautiful people I know but she is also the most lost person I know. This would be her signature line if she was here (hope you can follow):

WW-34
XBH#1-40?
OM#1
OM#2/currently BH#2/affairage-38
OM#3
OM#4
OW#1
DS-14
OCDS-12 (from OM#1). Lied to XH that this child was his until son was almost 3 years old.
DD-10
OCDS-8 (from OM#2)
Heard from XH#1 that she is now pregnant with from OM#3. Lying to OM#2/BH#2 that this child is his!

I am no longer allowed to be friends with her because she supported my A and H does not want me associated with her as part of EP. She has lied so much that I don't know if she can ever come clean and have a normal life. Is there hope for her?




Me: BS/FWW - 38
BH/FWH - 36
Married 13 years, together 17 years
Two boys: 9 & 12
OW#1 DDay: PA Nov 26, 2009 (July 2008-July 2009)
OW#2 DDay: PA Nov 29, 2009 (May 2009-Sept 2009)

Me: EA/PA (RA?) June 2010-Sept 2010
His DDay: Oct 2010
SusieQ #2546205 09/21/11 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by celticvoyager
Extreme narcissism, detachment issues, etc... all seem to play important factors with serial cheaters

My STBxWH (currently on affair #4 which he started shortly after I went into Plan B) is a serial cheater.

I spoke to Dr Harley about this and he DID say that STBxWH has low self-esteem and that it plays a role in his going after women ~ that a good M (with ENs being met) isn't enough for him and he needs the extra boost/thrill to feel good.

OK, so low self esteem may be a chief motivator for many or most. This was OM#2 for me. Found out after the A was over that he was (on top of everything else) a swinger.

At the same time he said he doesn't recommend looking at how to solve those types of childhood/underlying issues when trying to recover.

right. I remember this from HNHN. Not sure if I'm looking to solve a problem so much as being able to identify it. I hear phrases like "serial cheater" and "sex addict" a lot, and wonder how much is truly that or just plain stupidity. (or both!)

How are you doing BTW? You've been on Grace and my winds the past few months. Are you holding up ok?


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Originally Posted by seeingclearly
As I was considering the the very same questions so many of us have, I also consider how many WWards really even know what adultery is. I know of a couple at my former church who left their spouses, moved in together, are now engaged and she is questioning whether or not what they are doing is actually considered adultery - after all, they were both unhappy in their marriages and deserve to be happy. WE can see this clearly, but to someone who is rationalizing because they are in it and want so bad to be right, may not even know and that is why they could've crossed over that line to begin with. After my WH first A, I actually had to educate him about adultery and what it really was and why God dedicated an entire commandment to it. I thought that was clear to him when he had his EA with someone else. Had to educate there too.

I remember feeling like I had to "teach" FWH what it was he actually did. The "huge-ness" of it all. He only thought of himself, never of our kids or me or our extended family.

I remember soon after D-day saying "our marriage will never be the same" FWH says..."why not?" think He wanted us to immediately go back to pre-A and it would all disappear.

Now, we both are glad our marriage is not like pre-A. To bad we just had to take this road to get there.


BS(me)
FWH
M '91
DS x 3



Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

Col. 2:8 (NLT)
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Originally Posted by black_raven
Hmmmmm...I don't I agree that the serial cheater has to be a predator or initiator. The As can start as "innocently" as other As. I don't even think my stbx is a narcissist. Not a one size fits all IMO.

Black Raven,

Thanks for this. I'm willing to be wrong. I am trying to look more at the general picture. Is there a common thread(s) with serial cheaters. It is hard because the WW of all stripes all share so many common traits.


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Originally Posted by L2010NM
I am no longer allowed to be friends with her because she supported my A and H does not want me associated with her as part of EP. She has lied so much that I don't know if she can ever come clean and have a normal life. Is there hope for her?

Just wanted to point out that she is not a "friend." She is your enemy. She is the kind of "friend" who would throw you an anchor while you were drowning. No, she was a partner in crime, not a friend. No "friend" helps a friend be bad. A true friend cares enough to stop you from degrading yourself. A caring friend would not stand for that. Losing her was no loss at all.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by L2010NM
I am no longer allowed to be friends with her because she supported my A and H does not want me associated with her as part of EP. She has lied so much that I don't know if she can ever come clean and have a normal life. Is there hope for her?

Just wanted to point out that she is not a "friend." She is your enemy. She is the kind of "friend" who would throw you an anchor while you were drowning. No, she was a partner in crime, not a friend. No "friend" helps a friend be bad. A true friend cares enough to stop you from degrading yourself. A caring friend would not stand for that. Losing her was no loss at all.


A true friend will tell you when you've got your head up your butt.


BH(Me)=40
WXW=38
ILYBNILWY: 8/09
DDAY: 8/31/09
Two boys: 8,7
Divorced 3/23/2011

Don't let your eyes refuse to see. Don't let your ears refuse to hear. Or you ain't never gonna shake this sense of sadness. --Ray Lamontagne
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Originally Posted by tryingtofeelgood
Throw a brick at me if you want, but I dont think they have a moral compass or conscience, I know i didnt. I didnt think about us, about my children about anything but me, and i dont think my ww is thinking about anyone but her right now....

I think there is a moral compass in their brain, its just twisted to fit their situation.

I remember (soon after D-day) my FWH would not use my moms handicap permit to run in the grocery store to get some milk. He say's... "but that's against the law!" think Hmm.... But ADULTRY is OK???? I just had to say something to him, I don't remember what he did about the parking...I couldn't see straight!


BS(me)
FWH
M '91
DS x 3



Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

Col. 2:8 (NLT)
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Originally Posted by L2010NM
Thanks for this thread CV.

I often wondered which category my H was on with he had his two overlapping affairs. He said that it was very dark for him during that time and he was very guilty and wanted to end it several times but both OW#1 & OW#2 threatened to tell me the truth and he was stuck. I don't understand why he kept on eating his own vomit.

My FWW had 2, but I would not classify her as a serial cheater.

I don't think I would consider with a serial cheater but someone who had multiple affairs. I know both women were predators and cast their nets wide and would do anyone that is willing. He treated them like dirt. But the women gave them the admiration that he had been craving for.

I had a very hard time dealing with his multiple affairs. But God is always good and we are recovering slowly. Sometimes, I don't want to work on it and my Taker pokes his head out and wants to give up and start new but I now have a H who is willing to work hard on recovery but even then my taker thinks he's not doing enough on his end for our recovery.

boy can I relate! lol. I have a strong taker side to me and constantly have to check it.

I do have a friend that is a serial cheater. I think if you look up serial cheater in the dictionary that her face would be on it. She is one of the most beautiful people I know but she is also the most lost person I know. This would be her signature line if she was here (hope you can follow):

WW-34
XBH#1-40?
OM#1
OM#2/currently BH#2/affairage-38
OM#3
OM#4
OW#1
DS-14
OCDS-12 (from OM#1). Lied to XH that this child was his until son was almost 3 years old.
DD-10
OCDS-8 (from OM#2)
Heard from XH#1 that she is now pregnant with from OM#3. Lying to OM#2/BH#2 that this child is his!

I am no longer allowed to be friends with her because she supported my A and H does not want me associated with her as part of EP. She has lied so much that I don't know if she can ever come clean and have a normal life. Is there hope for her?

See, I think it is harder for them to recover, but the only people I say there is no hope for are pedophiles.

cv


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Lgtex1 #2546229 09/21/11 05:40 PM
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Well serial adultery is, IMHO, a need to be admired and a need to have the romantic love "high", and a desire for "newness" in their life, and like all A's, the double life secrecy is exciting!

The morale compass is definitely off, strange that my FWH can go for years going to church etc., then he will, when convenient, not believe anymore. As to the question why or how can they do this to a spouse multiple times? Because they are only thinking of themselves of course, they rationalize, rewrite history, etc.. FWH I believe has had multiple affairs and the last one was a LT affair. The LT was the worst to get over. The length of time of the deceipt and the amount of the deceipt crippled me. I can't say that I have yet fully gotten over it. When an A goes on for so long, I have trouble believing that FWH is here for the "right' reasons. Trust issues I guess are something that will take as long the A went on I read somewhere **edit**

ba

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Me-49, WH-51
Married 02/1983 yrs, Sons - 27, 26, 20
1st PA - 1985, 1st known EA - 1992/1993
2nd PA - 06/02 to 11/04
1st D-day - 09/03, D-day 2 - 10/04 D-day 3 05/08
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Originally Posted by celticvoyager
...My FWW had two affairs. there was 6, almost 7 years between them. Was not the pursuer for either. ...
t/j here, but this bolded phrase bothers me.

I admit, I've trotted something similar out here from time to time (along lines of "my OW made the first move"). However, at the core, I do see it as somewhat of an evasion of responsibility. Sort of like Adam's "Yo, God, this woman you sent here, she handed me this here fruit, even though you told me not to eat it." [Forgive my paraphrasing of Scripture. What's Hebrew for "Yo"?]

Bearing in mind that we WSs decided to continue the conversations, decided to go out alone with them for coffee, decided to take the pursuers' phone calls, decided to stay on the line, decided to let them into our cars, decided to accompany them to the hotels... the shade less degree of culpability we might or might not bear is most probably too insignificant to bear too much mentioning. I hope Grace flags you on that once in awhile. It's one of the smaller gifts a FWS can give his/her spouse.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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amen!

My FWH, early on, would say "I didnt want to have an A....did'nt pursue it.. OW called me...."

Our counselor then said, "well, you werent acting married either" So, you are just as much at fault


BS(me)
FWH
M '91
DS x 3



Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

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Originally Posted by GloveOil
Originally Posted by celticvoyager
...My FWW had two affairs. there was 6, almost 7 years between them. Was not the pursuer for either. ...
t/j here, but this bolded phrase bothers me.

I admit, I've trotted something similar out here from time to time (along lines of "my OW made the first move"). However, at the core, I do see it as somewhat of an evasion of responsibility. Sort of like Adam's "Yo, God, this woman you sent here, she handed me this here fruit, even though you told me not to eat it." [Forgive my paraphrasing of Scripture. What's Hebrew for "Yo"?]

Bearing in mind that we WSs decided to continue the conversations, decided to go out alone with them for coffee, decided to take the pursuers' phone calls, decided to stay on the line, decided to let them into our cars, decided to accompany them to the hotels... the shade less degree of culpability we might or might not bear is most probably too insignificant to bear too much mentioning. I hope Grace flags you on that once in awhile. It's one of the smaller gifts a FWS can give his/her spouse.

Hi GO,

Not trying to evade any responsibility. Far be it from that. There is plenty of guilt to go around and she has more than her share.

nabat (in the hiphil) would be the closest in Hebrew. smile

She does.Oh she does.




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Lgtex1 #2546294 09/21/11 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Lgtex1
My FWH, early on, would say "I didnt want to have an A....did'nt pursue it.. OW called me...."Ou
\

Yeah, I love this defense. My WH's variation on it was "I wasn't looking for this. She came on to me and. . .suddenly. . .everything
. . .EXPLODED!

I couldn't tell if he meant he had a premature ejaculation or if a
random missile came hurtling through the clouds and struck them.


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Originally Posted by freefall
Originally Posted by Lgtex1
My FWH, early on, would say "I didnt want to have an A....did'nt pursue it.. OW called me...."Ou
\

Yeah, I love this defense. My WH's variation on it was "I wasn't looking for this. She came on to me and. . .suddenly. . .everything
. . .EXPLODED!

I couldn't tell if he meant he had a premature ejaculation or if a
random missile came hurtling through the clouds and struck them.

Well, maybe I should be clear. This was never a defense my W made. It was simply an observation I noticed. Sorry if i confused anyone.



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I've been thinking on the moral compass comment. It being off isn't right exactly, at least to me.

In my WH's case. He has a moral compass. I think, though, that he lied and justified so much, it altered his reality. Instead of black and white, his realities blurred so much, he had gray.

He only admitted he was having an affair 1.5 yrs into it. To him, it was a relationship, it was true love, she was his soul mate, how could that be wrong? Affairs are dirty, sleazy things. Because he left me 1 day before sleeping with her, it was OK. Never mind the fact he kept coming back to me.

Ironically enough, he admitted to me recently that the reason he kept coming back to me, was to make sure I wouldn't have a revenge affair. So the word was in his head the entire time, he was just applying it to me. banghead


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NC again 07/11 broken 12/11
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Originally Posted by beginagain
Well serial adultery is, IMHO, a need to be admired and a need to have the romantic love "high", and a desire for "newness" in their life, and like all A's, the double life secrecy is exciting! . . .Because they are only thinking of themselves of course, they rationalize, rewrite history, etc.ba


I agree with you, begin again. This certainly describes my WH's motives for his many affairs.

His first affair was with my fbf, who was living with us at the time. They had sex every time I had a night class. That was 38 years ago. 25 years ago, shortly after the birth of our third child, he had an affair with someone he worked with, who ended up losing her job and her marriage. I thought that time that we had recovered completely and that he would never betray me again.

I was wrong.

In May, he admitted that he was having another affair, with a woman 20 years younger who is only a few years older than our daughter, our oldest. Since then I found out about two other affairs that happened in the interim, one EA and another PA.

I don't know if I'll ever recover after almost 40 years of lies and deceit.



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Holy Wow TT
Same exxact as my sich.
But instead of leaving me told me she wanted a physical and emotional separation.....but wanted me to stay in the house...

"He only admitted he was having an affair 1.5 yrs into it. To him, it was a relationship, it was true love, she was his soul mate, how could that be wrong? Affairs are dirty, sleazy things. Because he left me 1 day before sleeping with her"

Sorry I cant figure out how to quote....
I want to thank everyone for posting makes me feel better somehow


Me: BH 40
WW 39
S13, D9
Married 15 yrs together 19!!!
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[quote=freefall
I couldn't tell if he meant he had a premature ejaculation or if a
random missile came hurtling through the clouds and struck them. [/quote]

rotflmao


BS(me)
FWH
M '91
DS x 3



Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

Col. 2:8 (NLT)
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Thank you Celt. for starting this thread.

I, as a BS of a SC sometimes feel like the "odd-man-out", like some sort of freak for staying with a guy like that.

It REALLY helps to see there are many others out there in the same boat.


another question, maybe a new thread needs to be started on it. I find myself often asking.....

"lgtex1, would you have still married this man if you knew this would happen?"

does anyone else think about this?

not sure why this enters my brain, but it does.






BS(me)
FWH
M '91
DS x 3



Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

Col. 2:8 (NLT)
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Originally Posted by Lgtex1
[quote=freefall
I couldn't tell if he meant he had a premature ejaculation or if a
random missile came hurtling through the clouds and struck them.

rotflmao [/quote]

My WXH told me just this week that when he slept with my 19 year old cousin, 'it wasn't my fault! She came over and asked to use the shower and when she came out naked and jumped on me there was nothing I could do!'

Seriously. He said those exact words to me...2 1/2 years after DD...2 years post divorce. I think maybe he hasn't figured it out yet.

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Originally Posted by Lgtex1
I find myself often asking.....

"lgtex1, would you have still married this man if you knew this would happen?"

does anyone else think about this?


I can tell you when I was in my fog the question was""""How was it possible that I married the completely wrong person, Wrong in every way. This feels so right how could it every be wrong...

Then the awakening

Now I know I would marry the same woman every time...no matter what.

I love the quote on someones sig line
I wouldn't trade her for a million dollars, but i wouldnt buy another one like her for a nickle..
always makes me think


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Originally Posted by celticvoyager
How are you doing BTW? You've been on Grace and my winds the past few months. Are you holding up ok?

Hey, CV (& Grace smile )

Doing OK. Divorce & dealing with a wayward is definitely quite stressful (my atty is getting ready to file contempt charges as we speak because he is not following our pendente lite agreement re visitation and $$ ~ GRRRRR)

I just am sooo looking forward to the day it is final and the kids and I are settled in our new place (wherever that may be)...

Luckily have got great friends & family to help us thru it. You all have been awesome too. smile

Thank you for asking!


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For me I wouldn't change my kids for the whole world so if marrying someone else meant not having them, then no I wouldn't marry someone else.

I do wish I had my head out of the dirt though much sooner than I did....

ba


Me-49, WH-51
Married 02/1983 yrs, Sons - 27, 26, 20
1st PA - 1985, 1st known EA - 1992/1993
2nd PA - 06/02 to 11/04
1st D-day - 09/03, D-day 2 - 10/04 D-day 3 05/08
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Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by celticvoyager
How are you doing BTW? You've been on Grace and my winds the past few months. Are you holding up ok?

Hey, CV (& Grace smile )

Doing OK. Divorce & dealing with a wayward is definitely quite stressful (my atty is getting ready to file contempt charges as we speak because he is not following our pendente lite agreement re visitation and $$ ~ GRRRRR)

I just am sooo looking forward to the day it is final and the kids and I are settled in our new place (wherever that may be)...

Luckily have got great friends & family to help us thru it. You all have been awesome too. smile

Thank you for asking!

Grrr is right! I am so glad you have family and friends helping out! Grace and I are thankful for you, and we are praying for you too!

by the way, you weren't on our *winds*, you were on our *minds* lol!

CV


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@Mel, my H said the exact same thing that she was an accomplice to my 'crime'.

@TE, I sure had my head up there for a little while. I can thank God and MB for getting me out of it!


Me: BS/FWW - 38
BH/FWH - 36
Married 13 years, together 17 years
Two boys: 9 & 12
OW#1 DDay: PA Nov 26, 2009 (July 2008-July 2009)
OW#2 DDay: PA Nov 29, 2009 (May 2009-Sept 2009)

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Originally Posted by celticvoyager
Originally Posted by L2010NM
Thanks for this thread CV.

I often wondered which category my H was on with he had his two overlapping affairs. He said that it was very dark for him during that time and he was very guilty and wanted to end it several times but both OW#1 & OW#2 threatened to tell me the truth and he was stuck. I don't understand why he kept on eating his own vomit.

My FWW had 2, but I would not classify her as a serial cheater.

I don't think I would consider with a serial cheater but someone who had multiple affairs. I know both women were predators and cast their nets wide and would do anyone that is willing. He treated them like dirt. But the women gave them the admiration that he had been craving for.

I had a very hard time dealing with his multiple affairs. But God is always good and we are recovering slowly. Sometimes, I don't want to work on it and my Taker pokes his head out and wants to give up and start new but I now have a H who is willing to work hard on recovery but even then my taker thinks he's not doing enough on his end for our recovery.

boy can I relate! lol. I have a strong taker side to me and constantly have to check it.

I do have a friend that is a serial cheater. I think if you look up serial cheater in the dictionary that her face would be on it. She is one of the most beautiful people I know but she is also the most lost person I know. This would be her signature line if she was here (hope you can follow):

WW-34
XBH#1-40?
OM#1
OM#2/currently BH#2/affairage-38
OM#3
OM#4
OW#1
DS-14
OCDS-12 (from OM#1). Lied to XH that this child was his until son was almost 3 years old.
DD-10
OCDS-8 (from OM#2)
Heard from XH#1 that she is now pregnant with from OM#3. Lying to OM#2/BH#2 that this child is his!

I am no longer allowed to be friends with her because she supported my A and H does not want me associated with her as part of EP. She has lied so much that I don't know if she can ever come clean and have a normal life. Is there hope for her?

See, I think it is harder for them to recover, but the only people I say there is no hope for are pedophiles.

cv


I'm not sure she wants to recover. She's been living a lie her whole life. Lies are the only way she knows how to live and she's a very good serial cheater. She has beaten the statistics. She's still married to her OM#2 (just had their 7th anniversary) albeit she still continues having affairs. She's very good at pretending life is perfect and it sure looks good from the outside. It seems like her house that is 'made on sand' will last a lifetime and she and OM#2 will have a happily ever no ever knowing the OC#3 isn't his.

I'm glad my H has pulled me out of that drama and I am no longer in her influence...I hate to admit this but she was my 'affair mentor' puke





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BH/FWH - 36
Married 13 years, together 17 years
Two boys: 9 & 12
OW#1 DDay: PA Nov 26, 2009 (July 2008-July 2009)
OW#2 DDay: PA Nov 29, 2009 (May 2009-Sept 2009)

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Is it possible to t/j your own thread? Someone posted this on Facebook today and just thought I'd share it. There are some interesting aspects to it... And it was just darn funny...

THE WEIRDEST DIVORCE LETTER EVER!

Dear Wife, I�m writing you this letter to tell you that I�m leaving you forever. I�ve been a good man to you for 7 years & I have nothing to show for it. These last 2 weeks have been hell. ... Your boss called to tell me that you quit your job today & that was the last straw. Last week, you came home & didn�t even notice I had a new haircut, had cooked your favorite meal & even wore a brand new pair of silk boxers. You ate in 2 minutes, & went straight to sleep after watching all of your soaps. You don�t tell me you love me anymore; you don�t want sex or anything that connects us as husband & wife. Either you�re cheating on me or you don�t love me anymore; whatever the case, I�m gone.


Your EX-Husband


P.S. don�t try to find me. Your SISTER & I are moving away to West Virginia together! Have a great life!



�� Dear Ex-Husband Nothing has made my day more than receiving your letter. It�s true you & I have been married for 7 years, although a good man is a far cry from what you�ve been. I watch my soaps so much because they drown out your constant whining & griping Too bad that doesn�t work. I DID notice when you got a hair cut last week, but the 1st thing that came to mind was �You look just like a girl!� Since my mother raised me not to say anything if you can�t say something nice, I didn�t comment. And when you cooked my favorite meal, you must have gotten me confused with MY SISTER, because I stopped eating pork 7 years ago. About those new silk boxers: I turned away from you because the $49.99 price tag was still on them, & I prayed it was a coincidence that my sister had just borrowed $50 from me that morning. After all of this, I still loved you & felt we could work it out. So when I hit the lotto for 10 million dollars, I quit my job & bought us 2 tickets to Jamaica But when I got home you were gone.. Everything happens for a reason, I guess. I hope you have the fulfilling life you always wanted. My lawyer said that the letter you wrote ensures you won�t get a dime from me. So take care.

Signed,
Your Ex-Wife, Rich As He77 & Free!


P.S. I don�t know if I ever told you this, but my sister Carla was born Carl. I hope that�s not a problem.


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Baby, that's too funny!


Me...saved by grace
Him...wonderful husband
Us...3 years in to our new life and better every day!
and we have 3 great kids (20,19,17)

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This radio clip explains why serial affairs occur. We see this play out over and over again on this forum when couples cut corners in recovery. They usually end up back here with repeat affairs:

radio clip


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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That radio clip also addresses therapists who believe that romantic love is "unrealistic." He explains that 20% of married couples are in love after 20 years and if you follow their habits, you will be too. This is what MB is patterned after. But most therapists have no idea how that is achieved, which is why they tell clients it is "unrealistic."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Dr Harley discusses why the oft heard ~~"I forgive you"~~ comment will not help prevent another infidelity in the future.
To me personally, that was the most valuable part of the broadcast.
How often have we heard a BS tell us "I forgave him/her for the first affair, and we moved on." .... Unfortunately the "move on" can sometimes mean move on to a series of infidelities.

If you are about to type a response to what I just wrote about "I forgive you" without LISTENING to the show first .... Be honest, and tell us you did not bother to listen !

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Originally Posted by Pepperband
Dr Harley discusses why the oft heard ~~"I forgive you"~~ comment will not help prevent another infidelity in the future.

He actually says that "forgiveness" harms their chance of recovery. I agree with this, and have observed that those that "forgive" while the affair is still going on cause even more damage because it leads to prolonged affairs. That kind of unconditional "love" leads to abuse and neglect. It might feel good temporarily to pass out cheap, unwarranted "forgiveness" but it is harmful to the marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
It might feel good temporarily to pass out cheap, unwarranted "forgiveness" but it is harmful to the marriage.

I agree with this statement.
I want to add that it is not uncommon for the WS to assume their infidelity will forever be a wedge in the marriage. Assume that their BS will forever hold a grudge. Some WS use that as an excuse for not returning to the marriage.
"You're never going to get over this, are you?" <~~~ A type of gas-lighting and an attempt to force a premature "I forgive you" from the BS.

That's not what MB is all about. "Getting over" is too passive. MB is dynamic purposeful and proactive.

It is MY OPINION that forgiveness is meaningful when the marriage has boundaries of protection (EPs) in place, and the conditions that permitted infidelity are no longer happening.

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I thought this was appropriate for this thread.

Radio Clip on a Serial Cheater
Segment #2
Segment #3


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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That was me, I did not get the mail with that particular date so unfortunately I did not make it to the show on that day but I rang yesterday. I do not know how to put the link here.

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Originally Posted by lorraine555
That was me, I did not get the mail with that particular date so unfortunately I did not make it to the show on that day but I rang yesterday. I do not know how to put the link here.
Were you on the show again? If so, when?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I was on the show yesterday.

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Originally Posted by lorraine555
I was on the show yesterday.
There is some talk about it on the Recovery board.

What did you think about Dr. Harley's advice?

I will link it as soon as it posts in the archives.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Thank you, I'll have a look at the recovery board.
Dr Harley said my husband had to stop travelling to conferences alone; if he agrees I'll be able to do that very shortly as I am due to retire in July. If not, I'll have to ask for a divorce, not a nice perspective at 65. He told me my husband is "in the fog": yes, I was amazed at my husband's mail to Dr Harley.
He wrote about his lover (someone he met at conferences every month or two): "we became occasional bed-sharers" and "we quickly realized we were just good friends", and "it did not last very long" (more than a year).
When I discovered this affair in December 2012, he was calling her his lover, and they were planning more escapades at conferences for 2013. Complete denial.
Dr Harley told me it is all about himself. Husband agreed to send Dr Harley an email, hopefully he will ring him too as suggested.
We are also going to a councelor, individually for the time being.

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Is marriage recovery with a serial cheater more difficult? I'm not really sure, but I'm positive that personal recover is MUCH easier.

Back when I only knew about the most recent OM, I constantly blamed myself. Even though deep down I knew it was her decision, I would read the articles and the stories in these posts and could see all the mistakes I made in my marriage. "If only I had been a better husband," I thought, "she wouldn't have strayed."

Then, the truth came out. She cheated on me within a week of our marriage, and continued to cheat for 9 years with various partners. Knowing that allowed me to understand that it had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what I was or wasn't doing as a husband, and had EVERYTHING to do with the choices that she was making. That made personal recovery for me a lot easier.


Me: BH
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Another clip on serial cheaters.

Radio Clip on Serial Cheaters


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by lorraine555
I was on the show yesterday.
Here's the show.
Radio Clip on Serial Cheaters
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I can't believe I just found this thread. There are some really good points here. I was told my ex-wife was a serial cheater, but after the radio clips and the words of Harley, I don't believe she was. Then again she was only caught twice and only she knows if there were more men during our thirteen year marriage. From what I know about the affairs, the two POSOM were nice to her and treated her well (the fantasy feeling we all get when we first date someone). That was her reason for her affairs. She wanted to be happy and felt I didn't treat her well. That's not an excuse of course, but to people like her, it's a way out in order to feel appreciated. What my ex-wife learned was that the grass isn't greener on the other side.

Good topic CV. I believe people can change even though it would be harder for the ones who have had multiple affairs. I was told not to bother reconciling after my divorce was final because my ex-wife is a serial cheater, but based on what has been stated in this thread, she doesn't fit that category. The potential is there and I believe anything is possible. I won't keep my blinders up.


Me: BH 36
Her: WW 34
Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9
DDay 1-6/2009
DDay 2-9/2011
DDay 3-11/2011
Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011
Divorce final May 24, 2012
My Story



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Originally Posted by GJM
(the fantasy feeling we all get when we first date someone).

I think the focus of Dr. Harley's research and counseling is the fact that that feeling is real and can continue for life.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Bump!


Ddays 2007 and 2011
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Enlightening thread!!!

So, is there a method to redirect the SC's moral compass?

With my W, i still firmly believe that we truly had a loving relationship in both our hearts for the 1st 7-8 years.

Then, due to pizz-poor boundaries during a time of severe emotional strife and depression created during the 2 1/2 month hospitalization and seeming recovery and then sudden unexpected death of her Mom, that she allowed all of her EN's to be met by the 1st OM, and also shot down any attempts i made at meeting here EN's, that she rewrote our marital history to totally find me unacceptable to reconsider.

Her current OM moved in with her around 1 year ago. She "seems" to be as infatuated with him as she ever was with me previously, which also could be said about the previous 2 OM, but those never evolved into living together and fizzled out naturally.

Also, her cheating coincided with when she relapsed to alcohol after about 8 years of steady sobriety. She has abandoned, for all purposes, our beautiful young son now, since his 9th birthday through him now being several months shy of his 11th birthday.

She had already moved out to carry on with OM2 prior to hooking up with this current OM3. There was also an OW one night drunken ONS that occurred after D-day1 just prior to beginning with OM2, who also had been OW's long term on again, off again BF for the previous 15 years.

Serial cheater, or multiple monogamous affairs? She truly was a good Wife and Mom prior to the relapse and affairs starting.

Can her moral compass be rediscovered with any help, such as a multi-affair exposure this late in the game?

LTL

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Dr. Harley says that serial cheaters can be faithful, but they must follow extra extraordinary precautions.

Sometimes changing careers and/or being with the spouse 24 hours a day.

Did you listen to all the clips?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Hi LTL,

I wouldn't bother. It sounds like your WW isn't willing to help herself and is perfectly fine living this way. Maybe it is sexist, but as a woman and a mother...for a mother to abandon her children..she has to be a pretty messed up person IMO. Then you also have the issue of alcohol. I would walk away.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Dr. Harley says that serial cheaters can be faithful, but they must follow extra extraordinary precautions.

Sometimes changing careers and/or being with the spouse 24 hours a day

Did you listen to all the clips?


Thank you BH.

I responded to you on my thread rather than t/j this one further about one individual situation.

LTL

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Originally Posted by black_raven
Hi LTL,

I wouldn't bother. It sounds like your WW isn't willing to help herself and is perfectly fine living this way. Maybe it is sexist, but as a woman and a mother...for a mother to abandon her children..she has to be a pretty messed up person IMO. Then you also have the issue of alcohol. I would walk away.

Thank you BR.

That does seem to be the prevalent consensus.....

Yet, i still have my heart invested totally in my family, which used to include a beautiful soul as my Wife.

I didn't know about exposure early on.

I tried to let go. I still love the person she was when we married each other.

I want to be there for her to have someone to reach out to if she can be snapped back into her former reality.

I am probably being unrealistic. But, if there remains even one stone unturned that i haven't done to do all i could have done, even if it does not achieve the desired goal, then i would not have done all i could have done.

I am continuing being a great single parent and have slightly restored my business and might get out of foreclosure, so i am doing the positive steps for my life. I want her to see those improvements if she ever accepts that she has an alcohol problem, which we say in AA, is a "Thinking Disease", not just a drinking disease.

I need to remain patient, but can i raise the bottom she needs to hit?

Here is the link to my thread:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2745098&page=all

LTL

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This is an enlightening thread. My WXW was a serial cheater by definition, with at least one PA and several EAs. I did not know about MB at the time and did not expose properly, instead counted on the fact that I confronted her that she would stop.

She was one of those people who was never happy, but if she got that new kitten/puppy/baby/bigger house/worked less hours/etc. she would then be happy. The new thing never made her happy though, and she was left wanting.

WXW has been in a LTR with a man that I suspect was an OM. They worked together during the period that I caught her communicating with multiple people on yahoo chat. My DD comes home and tells me about how WXW complains about her boyfriend, plans on kicking him out, and hides her phone and computer from everyone.

With her, she was never willing to put much effort into the relationship. We both missed the boat with meeting ENs, lots of LBs, etc., but with her she was able to get all this attention from OMs because it was easier than working at a marriage.


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Question,
How many d days are needed before it is considered serial cheating?
In my case, my wife was with 3 OM before I found out. 2 of them were one night stands, the other was 1 guy that lasted over a year.
There was only 1 d day, and as best I can tell she stopped everything and is 100 percent devoted to me.
So would she be considered a serial cheater?

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Yes, she is a serial cheater.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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She is a serial cheater if there has been more than one affair. ONS's count as affairs.

You don't need serial D-Days for her to be a serial cheater.

The reason for the distinction between singular and serial cheaters is that serial cheaters have different MO's. They are often addicted to having affairs, not just to the one AP.


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Originally Posted by gmsisko1
Question,
How many d days are needed before it is considered serial cheating?
It isn't the number of Ddays; it is the number of APs that defines serial cheating. A serial cheater has two or more APs.

ML answered your second question; your spouse is a serial cheater.


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There was another recent poster whose WW was trying to sweep the ONSs under the rug with excuses. That poster was trying to reduce the number of affairs bc of this.

Make no mistake...your WW had FOUR affairs.

These ONS are an indication of a person with serious SSL and a desire to have needs met outside the marriage vs an oops I fell in love with my coworker type of thing.


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GM,

Dr Harley during one of his radio shows talked about intentional vs unintentional affairs. An unintentional affair occurs when you are around someone for a long time and you bond, but you didn't start out wanting a relationship. Your WW intended to have an affair, actively went after these OM, which means she is more likely a serial cheater.

What do you know of her history in Brazil?

God Bless
Gamma

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Originally Posted by Gamma
Your WW intended to have an affair, actively went after these OM, which means she is more likely a serial cheater.
She had four affairs. She IS a serial cheater.


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Originally Posted by SusieQ
There was another recent poster whose WW was trying to sweep the ONSs under the rug with excuses. That poster was trying to reduce the number of affairs bc of this.

Make no mistake...your WW had FOUR affairs.

These ONS are an indication of a person with serious SSL and a desire to have needs met outside the marriage vs an oops I fell in love with my coworker type of thing.

Actually she had 3 affairs. Maybe I mis posted earlier. Anyway, we are trying to R.
I get mixed signals and statements from her on the responsibility thing.
I know I contributed greatly to the factors that led to the affair, but I take zero responsibility for the affairs.
We had a great vacation together, we had a great time together. (Vacation ended about 3 days ago)
Thank you all for your help.

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That is good, sisko. Glad that you had a great vacay.

I would advise you to keep posting. This is a particularly vulnerable time for you!


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Originally Posted by Gamma
GM,

Dr Harley during one of his radio shows talked about intentional vs unintentional affairs. An unintentional affair occurs when you are around someone for a long time and you bond, but you didn't start out wanting a relationship. Your WW intended to have an affair, actively went after these OM, which means she is more likely a serial cheater.

What do you know of her history in Brazil?

God Bless
Gamma

I Married her when she was 18. (Had to go to Brazil to marry her) we have been married 11 years in December. She was a virgin when we got married.

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Originally Posted by catwhit
That is good, sisko. Glad that you had a great vacay.

I would advise you to keep posting. This is a particularly vulnerable time for you!

More true words have never been spoken.
Tonight I came home early from work, partly because I still feel uneasy when I am at work. (I work overnights) I found the house just the way it is supposed to be. (My 4 year old asleep wife about to fall asleep.
No signs of any type of cheating since d day. (I am watching like a hawk.
I had a mostly nice conversation with my wife.
I know I contributed to the conditions before the affair, however, I believe my wife is not fair with the way she describes the way things were.
I mean I know I had some huge faults that contributed, but she makes it seem a lot worse when she describes it.
One of my faults was I was into pornography for years until 2012, she found out and I stopped it 100 percent.
About 4 months later her affairs started.
She tries to point the finger at this, and that makes me angry, because I never touched another woman while we were married.

Anyway, I asked her if I have been more good than bad throught our marriage, and she said yes. Then I said that I wish she thought of this before giving herself to other men and she said she wishes I thought of her good before I wanted other women.
(Like she is rationalizing)
The best answer from her should have been,..... I know, you are right, I am very sorry.
Part of me wants to just leave when I get so angry, but my 4 year old can tell I am about to leave and he asks me to stay.
Granted, I don't know how long I could stay away, I love my wife and my son, but I want my wife to understand the gravity of the situation.
My wife is a bitter person, if someone hurts her, she has to hurt them worse.
I don't know how to make this stop.

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Sisko;

You can only work on YOUR behaviour. You cannot control your wife's behaviour. If you are having angry outbursts (AO's), and it sounds like you are, then you must eliminate them.

Imagine how much better your life will be without another angry outburst. Ever. Consider what a wonderful model you will be for your child when you show that you can solve conflicts with your intellect, not your emotions. And you will be a better partner to your wife.


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The Ashley Madison website has been in the news; Cheryl asks whether a marriage can survive after using an adultery website. Is there a way to prevent one's spouse from using a website such as Ashley Madison to start an affair?

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Jessica writes about the rate of infidelity. Dr. Harley has an answer but others disagree, and Jessica is looking for evidence to back up the numbers of marriages he states have been affected by infidelity.

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Dr. Harley has a new article on the website about when and if you should grab and grope your wife. He is also working on a new article about serial cheaters and whether they can be helped.
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The Serial Cheaters article has been put up:

What to Do with a Serial Cheater


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Katrina writes she fears her husband may be a serial cheater. He can't seem to help himself from having sex with every available woman.
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Matt writes he has been married 20 years but will soon be divorcing his wife who is a serial cheater. They are still living together but in separate rooms. They are working towards an amicable divorce and she plans to go with the other man. He has proof of her affair but she denies it, he asks if he should expose the affair or not.

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CAUTION: Serial cheaters may welcome extraordinary precautions they think will give YOU the security to safely ignore their SSL.

I keep coming across theads by BSs with serial cheating WSs that seem reluctant to get their heads around how difficult it is to create real security in a relationship after multiple episodes of cheating. Since I now have some experience on the topic, I thought I would share a few thoughts.

The main thing to remember is this: there is nothing more devious than a cheater � except an experienced cheater. If you take the standard approach of asking him/her to give you access to email and social media accounts, agreeing to remove passwords/codes from smart phones, spending most time together but leaving big gaping holes during the working day, ignoring work-related computer and phone stuff, or allowing your partner to keep one night a week (or something like that) for socialising without you with same-sex friends, you are not recovering your relationship � even though it might feel like it to you. What you are actually doing is giving your WS a checkbox list of things they need to show to you to ensure that you don�t bother them with your anxieties, and essentially telling them that as long as they conduct their infidelities during the working day, using email or instant messaging accounts you can�t see on their phone, and meet up with people during times they usually tell you they are with their friends, you will not suspect anything.

Think of it like this. If your house was burgled and the robbers got in through a window that you left unlocked, would you immediately change your behaviour to ensure that ALL windows and doors were locked, or would you only lock the one the robbers came in through? If you leave half of your windows and doors unlocked, the robbers will have no problem finding their way in again.

With a serial cheater, everything is the opposite way round from a non-serial. Remorse is not a sign that they value the marriage above their SSL. It is a sign they are sorry they were caught again. Putting in effort to win you back is not a sign they want to be in a faithful committed marriage. It is a sign that they want to go back to having a marriage and a secret life of cheating. They will work extremely hard to get back to a situation where they have a marriage AND an SSL � and it is really easy to kid yourself into thinking that they are making the effort because they want the same thing as you: a committed and secure exclusive marriage. Don�t be fooled!

So how do you deal with this situation? You have to switch your mind around. You can�t �verify� that they are not cheating � unless you watch them 24/7. You just can�t. Their aim is not to protect the marriage � their aim is to keep the marriage AND their SSL. So they will put all their energies into tricking you into believing that they are not cheating. And they will fight tooth and nail for that. You need to keep in your head that they will cheat if they have opportunity. And if they do normal things like go to work, run errands to shops, go and wash the car at weekends, etc, that gives them plenty of opportunity to be conducting an affair. Remember also that serial cheaters like the chase. So they may not even need that much time for physical meetings (how long does sex really take?! 10 mins?) if they have spent a few days working themselves up with steamy whatsapps. Trying to stop a serial cheater cheating is like trying to keep water in a sieve.

The only thing you can do is try to turn it around so that the onus is on them to PROVE they are faithful, while having your doubt-o-meter set to supersensitive so that you recognise that if it takes an hour and a half to go buy bread and milk from the supermarket there is something you need to worry about there. If they are cheating, they won�t be able to reassure you as long as your eyes are open. And don�t think you can be reassured by GPS in that situation � he could just be sitting in his car in the car park of the supermarket, talking on his phone to one or several of the random attractive women he bumped into during the course of his working day in the previous week.

I spent way too long being falsely reassured by GPS data, by no suspicious texts or calls during the evenings, by innocent looking-phone records, by having passwords for email and facebook, by doing random checks on whatsapp, and seeing my WH home at 7pm every night to have a family dinner with me and the kids. All the while my WH was carefully cleaning up all his devices before coming home, restricting flirting to working hours and evenings when he was out with his male friends, and conducting his affair meetings while the car was being washed or he was picking up some things from the supermarket.

After my experience (8 years of marriage, WH�s many many affairs plus an OC, with him seeming to become a better and better husband and father along the way), I am now convinced that there is NO WAY you can have a secure and loving marriage with a serial cheater unless they go through some kind of dramatic crash and epiphany to change their behaviour. If they don�t reach rock bottom and reconsider their philosophy of life, your marriage � and your mental health in it - does not stand a chance.

Can you help engineer a crash to rock bottom? I think you can....but so far I am only half way through my plan so will post more on this later.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Any update on your plan? I was going to PM you but I think because I am new, I cant.

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Some useful threads/posters for BSs struggling with serial cheating spouses:

Green Mile - repentant WS - 25 years of cheating
DanceswithGoats - GM's wife
These stories are quite eye opening about the enormity of the challenge of recovering/creating a marriage with someone who has been only thinking of themselves for their entire adult life and makes you think about what kind of future you can expect in a "recovered" marriage with a serial cheating spouse.

BrainHurts and Chickadee - a couple of happy-ending stories of serial cheating husbands.

Living Well, SusieQ and Black_raven - lots of great advice from people who have been there. Read their posts to others as well as threads created.

NB28 - wife of a serial online cheater. Shows how difficult it is to implement EPs (or how extreme the EPs need to be) in order to recover with a serial cheater.

Everafter2010 - I learnt a lot from her posts, especially the importance of gathering evidence on OWs for court cases.

Last edited by chalkncheese; 09/22/17 02:15 AM.

BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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My Wife tried to justify her one night stand with a "I considered myself single".

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Hey chalk
Yup it was very hard to implement anything with my situation as to everyone (a part from people on this forum) he appeared to be a charming loving husband no matter how many affairs he had. He would agree to everything and even had a list of boundaries printed that he carried with him. Didn�t stop the further 6 affairs that happened.

I am here still reading and learning even though my marriage ended 2 years ago.

I can�t find nor can I stomach reading my thread as it hurts to see how stupidly hard I tried working at something that had no hope.




BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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Originally Posted by NB28
Hey chalk
Yup it was very hard to implement anything with my situation as to everyone (a part from people on this forum) he appeared to be a charming loving husband no matter how many affairs he had. He would agree to everything and even had a list of boundaries printed that he carried with him. Didn�t stop the further 6 affairs that happened.

I am here still reading and learning even though my marriage ended 2 years ago.

I can�t find nor can I stomach reading my thread as it hurts to see how stupidly hard I tried working at something that had no hope.
Hi NB28,

I learned so much from your experience. It helped me really understand what SusieQ, Melody and others were all saying about looking at people's actions not their words. I'm sorry for everything you went though but hope you are in a better place now.

I know the feeling of not wanting to look back at your thread! I can't believe how deluded I was when I first came here. I had no understanding at all of the mentality of cheaters, the way they live their lives and how liars trick people. It's still hard to believe that I thought I was sharing my life with this person for 10 years, when all the time he was living a totally different life.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Hey chalk

Yes. Actions vs words is an absolute must, anyone can promise anything but if they don�t follow it with behaviour that shows they mean it, it�s absolutely pointless.

I wanted to believe it, I wanted to believe my babies wouldn�t have a broken family... little did I see or understand that what we had even by not divorcing was still a type of broken family, the behaviour the kids saw was not healthy, the impact it had on me and the state the children saw me was not healthy.

I struggled to understand that the good husband I fell in love with and married was capable of being who he became. I didn�t marry the monster he became. I married a gentle, shy and loving man.... the WS he became was a complete stranger to me.

Today I wouldn�t have a friendship nor would I have anyone that behaves like that in my life so why did I accept it from him?
Plan B for me is not saving a marriage, for someone like me with a serial cheater it means accepting the man I married is gone.

Oddly enough I am not angry at him, I don�t know him, I�m angry at myself for enabling someone like that for so long, for not standing up for myself and feeling I deserved to be treated better. This has cost me, the delay in walking away from him has completely messed up my life but I�m still much happier I am away from him.

As of today, he has the kids, the house and people still believe he�s a charming single father in need of love and support.

Had I gone into plan B in 2008 I can guarantee this would not be happening. I really do hope that people listen and understand the consequences of not following plan B or continuously braking it.


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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Originally Posted by NB28
Had I gone into plan B in 2008 I can guarantee this would not be happening. I really do hope that people listen and understand the consequences of not following plan B or continuously braking it.

It would be great if you could update your last thread - it would be helpful to people who refuse to implement a dark Plan B. Sadly, that is a problem we see often here on the forum.


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Update done...
I�ve kept up with MB and the forum I just don�t post... I don�t feel I can advise anyone when my own thread was so horrible..
I see people resisting plan B and I just want to drag the. 2/3/4 years down the line and show them how much more pain is yet to come if they don�t.


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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Originally Posted by NB28
I wanted to believe it, I wanted to believe my babies wouldn�t have a broken family... little did I see or understand that what we had even by not divorcing was still a type of broken family, the behaviour the kids saw was not healthy, the impact it had on me and the state the children saw me was not healthy.
Yes! This is what I have learned too. You think by separating you are "breaking" the family unit. But you are not. Your WS already broke the family. Your only choices after you realise what he has done (and who he really is) are to how to protect yourself and the children from the consequences of HIS decisions and actions. But it takes a long time for us BSs to understand that when we first come here....

I know that by throwing WH out, moving the kids to another country, and going through the courts to make sure he can't take them again, I have preserved our family. Sure, it's a one-parent family with very little input from the absent parent. And i do have to deal with fighting off the pressure to "compromise" or collaborate with WH, and looking like the bad guy as I stick to my guns about not communicating or interacting with him unless via lawyers. But I feel proud that I can say the children still have a family with structure and routines and stability and love. If WH had got his way - or if I had listened to "advice" from other people telling me "he's still their father", "you can't stay angry at him forever", "so it didn't work out, but you still have to work together for the children's sake", etc etc - everything would have been torn apart. It is so important for BSs with serial cheating partners to understand that the WS will destroy the family if you do not separate and cut contact. There is no other option that is good for you and your children.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
Sure, it's a one-parent family with very little input from the absent parent. .

Just think what you'd be doing to those beautiful kiddos of yours though if he'd been allowed unrestricted input though once you knew what that input might actually be. Serial cheaters are as charming as free snacks on the outside but the inside is full of heartfelt, strongly held beliefs that everyone cheats, it's just polite to cover it up well (their version of nose picking?) and that only the schmuck parent does the actual work. The star of the show just does a lot of showboating which encourages the child to admire and encourage the parent, rather than the other way about.

As we say in the north of England they're all fur coat and no knickers.

Can you think of a more damaging person to tell your child to trust? Look honey it's the snake oil salesman! He's our friend!

I think kids like yours actually have an advantage on kids who grew up in uneventful families like mine. They know what snake oil looks like and they know not to buy it.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
As we say in the north of England they're all fur coat and no knickers.

rotflmao


3 adult children
Divorced - he was a serial adulterer
Now remarried, thank you MB
(formerly lied_to_again)
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I've just read a book that really enlightened me about the serial cheating mindset. It is called "Character Disturbance: The Phenomenon of our Age" by Dr George Simon. I found that it echoed all the observations on this forum about the wayward charater and helped me go back through correspondence from WH to identify all the manipulation tactics he was using against me for years. Doing that exercise helped open my eyes to just how calculating and deliberate his manipulation was - and how it follows the clear pattern of other disturbed characters. The book also gives you techniques for if you have to engage in a conversation and/or relationship with a disturbed character, so that you can identify manipulations at the point they are happening, call the manipulator out on them, and set boundaries for your interactions so that you can prevent yourself being the victim of their self-serving games. I thought others might find it useful like i have.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
Joined: Feb 2017
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Some wisdom from Living Well on the reality of serial cheaters:


Originally Posted by Living Well
Serial cheaters are addicted to the chase and conquest. It gives them an adrenaline rush. So getting rid of this particular woman will not solve anything for you. He will just throw her over and find another. He is an addict and women are his drug.

The serial cheater gets better and better over time. Mine could pick up a woman on the street on his way to work. His antenna was so well tuned that he could tell at a glance who was a likely target.

A decision to stay married to a serial cheater therefore requires you to supervise him 24 hours a day. He could not even run a quick errand without you, let alone go out to work. Even if he agrees to this, you will hate him by the time you have done that for a few months.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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