Hi,
This is my first post here. I have been reading your stories, similar to mine.
We have had a tumultuous year. My DH was having EA with his supervisor at work since about a year ago. He started visiting her at her home this January while I was home with the kids, asleep. She lives 40 miles away. I was in complete denial. I am 44, he is 45, OW is 47. We have been married 21 years and have 5 children.
D-day was March 12. I asked him to get rid of her or have a divorce. He sat on the fence for a month. I could not eat or sleep. I felt like a hand was reaching inside my stomach and pulling my guts out. I have lost 35 lbs.
He broke it off w/ her April 11. She begged him behind my back to continue text msg relationship, said she'd do anything for him. I found out May 29, and he ended it for good June 6. She was transferred to another work location 30 miles away. He agreed to a block on her number, and we had the best summer ever, rediscovering our love for eachother, about 3-6 hours of complete undivided attention to eachother every day, no matter what, even though we had work and a lot of family problems with our kids. We were happy and having more fun than we'd ever had in our lives. We had the marriage we had always dreamed of, even better than when we first fell in love.
In Spetmeber, when school started, unbeknownst to me, they began seeing eachother again on the sly while I was at work and the kids were at school. She gave him a secret phone to talk to her on. This went on from Sept 16 to Oct 14. No sex but meeting for lunch, kissing, and declarations of love, all of this while he was loving me intensely and being very attentive. My intuition became too much, and he fessed up last Sunday and asked me to go with him to return the secret phone. I told her boss on her and emailed her kids. She is very angry with me and sends me messages that my husband is in love with her, not happy with me, and I am holding him hostage with my threats of divorce if he doesn't cease contact with her. She says my husband doesn't love me and misses her and thinks about her the whole time he's with me. She won't let go. She calls him at work. He feels sorry for her. I can't live in this marriage with her influence over him hanging over my head, and how much he's lied about it. He says he wants it to be done with too, but he is too nice to her when she calls him at work. She is pathetic and won't go away. What can I do? She is very tenacious and will suck him back in again. He is being very honest right now, but I thought he was before! Three D-days now with the same POSOW... I can barely function. I live to be with him.
Thanks for reading.

Hello, iaint, welcome to Marriage Builders, sorry you are here. I quoted the above comment because it is the basis of your problem. Your husband refuses to end contact with her. He leaves the door wide open by allowing her to contact him. If he were serious he would be filing a restraining order against her but I assure he is not serious. She would never be able to get through if he took steps to stop it, but he won't do that.

That makes him very dangerous to you.


I would implore you to go into Plan B, which is a separation. What your husband is doing to you is extremely abusive and will continue to erode your mental and physical health. Ask your husband to move out first and then follow the recommendations for Plan B in the article on the notable posts thread in the announcements forum.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair?

Iaint, this is not to blame you for his affair, but I think that one of your troubles is, when you allowed him to sit on the fence for a month before ending his affair, he got the idea that you weren't serious about his having to end it.

Your husband, right now, is a cruel SOB. He actually asked YOU to go WITH him to return his booty-phone to OW? What would've been wrong with your just dropping the darned thing into the nearest deep river with him observing? Why put you through the pain of dragging you off to see his mistress? He wanted your presence there in order to validate his relationship with her, not to end it.

Yes, exactly. If he were serious about ending it, he'd get his work number changed. Just like if he were serious, he'd have smashed the booty-phone himself, in your presence, without the ridiculous proposition that you tag along with him to return it to OW. He's not serious, because he doesn't think YOU are.

The guy he is now, isn't worth keeping. Maybe he'll change, but not before you make it clear to him that he's out of second chances.

Hi there,

Unless you want this to continue you have to draw the line in the sand, and tell him he either choses you or he moves on........
Since he has refused to get serious and keep his word I would ask him to move out.........
MelodyLane has suggested what we call Plan B I think that is an excellent plan for you, this can be save but you have to have a good plan, stick to it ......no wishy washy part for you, firm, compassionate, loving...........but stop being his door mat.......
This is so easy, he blocks her #, email and just simply refuses to speak to her, he will have to leave the job so the contact between them can't continue.......
she is gone or he will be from his marriage and his family......It is time for reality to hit fantasy square in the face for him.....
You can't control what the OW does or even what your husband does but you can control things from your end............he is a big boy he needs to grow up.....I would expose the affair to everyone important to him and the OW and then go to Plan B.
You think the OW is powerful you are wrong remember this what she didn't count on in all this is the power you have, you have a history, you have a family......
Don't let her take your life, show her she has underestimated YOU!!!!!!!
Now stop wallowing and start working, fight for what is yours, nothing is off limits.......out smart her ..........

IAint, in reading your post I don't see that you have exposed the affair to anyone other than OW kids and boss. Is this correct ? Does OW have a husband ?

I am speaking to you as a wayward wife and I can tell you that EXPOSURE works to kill affairs dead. Do you understand this ?

IAint, how do you know they have not been sexual with each other ? If they are meeting during the day and exchanging declarations of love, I am most certain they are doing more than kissing. WAYWARDS LIE. I know because I was a wayward and I lied like crazy, and I said something very similar to what your husband is saying !! I know you want to believe him, because you love him. But PLEASE don't assume he's being honest with you. I am sorry .

Out and out LIE.

Do you have a hidden GPS on his vehicle?

Copy these messages down ( I assume these are voice messages) .... and send the copy to her BOSS at work. Tell them you have the voice message saved.

Tell your husband he is FREE to go.
Tell your husband he is not your prisoner.
Tell your husband he has 5 seconds to make his choice.
He is either IN the marriage 100% or he is OUT.
Do not make this an idol threat.
If after 5 seconds he is not 100%, pack his bag and kick his butt OUT.
Tell your children WHY Daddy is moving out.
"Dad had another woman and he has chosen to keep her."


He is either 100% married to you, or he is ZERO %. He has 5 seconds to make up his mind.
In fact, make sure the kids are sitting with you when you tell Dad to make up his mind.

He's in desperate need to a swift kick in his derri�re to knock his sorry butt off the fence.

What this woman is doing is sexual harassment and you need to escalate this with their employer.

PS

Brat is an attorney.
Follow her lead.

Yes, this is sexual harassment. It�s time for you to take action to force him off the fence. You started exposure, but need to expand it. Expose to your family, close friends, and your kids.

Expose to the employer and let them know that she is your H�s supervisor and that this could lead to a sexual harassment lawsuit and is against company policy.

Finally, be prepared to go to Plan B. Your H will capitulate quickly. Fence sitters usually don�t want to let go of their spouses.

But the way for you to move forward and save your marriage is to take action, which means exposure. Find out if OW is married and expose to OWH.

I have a gut feeling your H will capitulate quickly once you take the necessary steps.

Hire an attorney to send a cease/desist letter to OW's superiors.

As a BS, this is one of the WORST mistakes that you can make....believing that your WS is finally being "honest". If there is still contact, you cannot believe this for one second.

In fact, I can point to a part of your post that I am 100% certain he is lying:


Two people in an "EA" for a year while secretly meeting at night? Hon, this is a PA. No doubt. You will want to be tested for STDs and be careful from now on...

Agree with the others regarding exposure & Plan B. Hang in there.

Iaint...I have been in your shoes. I experienced 3 D-days, and I allowed my WH to sit on the fence waaay too long. I have to agree with Jess on this. It wasn't until I finally gave him an ultimatum after 7 months that he finally decided to change his ways... that along with exposure to OW's parents and siblings. I was too afraid before that to stand up to him for fear I would lose him for good. But my health had finally hit rock bottom, and I was on the verge of hating him, so I knew I had to take action.

I told him I would not be an enabler to his disgustings ways anymore. I would no longer be a doormat. I was prepared to let him go, and I told him that. He had to give 110% now or I was no longer in the picture. He almost instantly changed his ways, and we are currently in recovery. If you want your marriage to stand a chance, you must act now.

Yes, I am very fed up and have made it very clear that I am prepared to go on without WH. I told him that whether he fails or succeeds in his resolve to maintain no contact, I am going to be the one who comes out on top. I have proven for over 9 months that I am the best wife in the world. ANY man would do this for me - love only me, be faithful to me, not step out on me. If I decide firmly that I am done with WH, a hundred men would be interested in his position. He knows this, and now he knows that I know it, and I don't have to put up with any more lies.

OW is an ugly-looking person who has revealed herself to be ugly on the inside, too. I told him if he wants her, he deserves her and he's going to do it without me and this house to come home to.

I may have misrepresented the phone story. The whole family went to return it. I answered it when she tried to call him - told her off on her own phone right in front of him and then brought her the f-ing thing.

I exposed to everyone in our family the first d-day 7 months ago. This time OW had to face some consequences - mainly the likelihood of losing her job. WH exposed it this time, to our kids & his dad. I told my mom and sister, because I needed to talk to them.

I am going to get well. I am going to get thru this. I do feel that I need some surveillance equipment to put my mind at ease though. I am worried about it at work to the point where I can't concentrate - for 7 months now. my performance is suffering there. WH is taking leave from his job now to take care of me and the kids and the house and come see me for lunch while I am working. How can I ever be certain after all this?

Thank you for all your responses. Some of you were a little rough. I appreciate the advice, though.

Did you read our posts? The problem is that your husband has not ended contact with her. You know that without having any surveillance. The fact that he takes her phone calls means the affair is not over and will never be over until he stops that.

So quit talking the talk and walk the walk.

Iaint, you have been in Plan A for 7 months. Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of MArriage Builders, recommends that women DO NOT exceed 3 to 4 WEEKS of Plan A because many suffer nervous breakdowns and suffer from post traumatic stress disorder. Here you are at 7 months and your husband STILL has no plan to cut off contact with the OW. He continues to take her calls. There is no plan here to prevent that.

I would strongly advise you and your H to get a plan in place that ENSURES she can never contact him or you really should separate before you suffer a nervous breakdown. What your husband is doing is ABUSE, plain and simple. It is like being physically assaulted by your husband every day for 7 months.

Please protect yourself.

Not without a plan. You are going to GET WORSE if you don't do something. I see no plan here. Hope is not a plan.

Please listen to the advice on here. I felt the same way as you. But once you really listen to these amazing people, do as they suggest, yes it will be hard at first, but you know what, you learn that it is really for the best. You find comfort in knowing that you are doing the right thing.

For me personally I am waiting for it all to explode for my WH. It will hit him so hard. I have a feeling it won't be too long now. But I feel good with my decisions regarding my WH. I have come to term with it and I am not trying to score a goal with a deflated soccer ball anymore. I will be here if and when he needs me to help pick himself up.
I am learning everyday on here, both from the BS & WS point of view. And that helps allot.

Hang in there, listen and learn.

I think she is realizing the work that is involved and really doesn't want to have to do all of that...it's too much work for her...

If you can spare the time, read my story, linked below.

My FWH used to work with his OW, then hired her on as his employee. She was very persistent, to say the least, whenever she sensed him pulling away.

And yet once he was serious about ending it, NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING she could do (and DID do) made the least difference to him.

Of course I had read all of your posts. Some were helpful, some suggested I am to blame. I don't get online a lot and mostly I just read when I do.

Neak, I read your story, and could very much relate to it. The caricatures of the people in your life make for a real page-turner. I do see what you mean about H deciding that its over, and then there being nothing at all a persistent psychopathic OW can possibly do to perpetuate anything.

I am prepared to cut my losses and pursue life on my own with my kids without H if he allows her to contact him again. The whole thing is so sick and digusting to me, that yes, I was on the verge of giving up on him, after all this time doing my very best at being the wife he always wanted and it still wasn't enough to stop lying to me and cheating on me, until he understood that he was going to lose me.

Maybe it is my fault for not being more forceful sooner. There was a long period when the affair was over. Try if you can not to blast me so much. I have come here to talk about this, not to be judged or ridiculed.

I don't know what the chances of success are, with 3 D-days and an almost year-long clandestine extramarital relationship involving sexual harrassment at work. Do you know of any data on recidivism rates?

Are they still working together? If so, the recidivism rate is about 100%.

What has happened since the last time you posted? Anything?

aint,

I haven't seen anywhere if you have exposed the affair to the OW's family or husband. If you haven't, that should be done ASAP. Do not warn your husband that you are going to do this.


You must understand that your husband is lying to you. He tells you that he doesn't want OW to call or talk to him. He says he feels sorry for her.

Meanwhile, when he talks to her, he tells her he loves her, and he is trying to be nice to you "for the kids".

Your husband is a liar. You absolutely need to understand that everything he tells you is to pacify you. He is telling you what you want to hear, and also telling her what she wants to hear.

He is doing this because he wants -

HE WANTS

HE WANTS WHAT HE WANTS WHEN HE WANTS IT.

There is no other reason.

The affair is about YOUR HUSBAND.

It is NOT about the OW.


Your husband is going along with this, and then he is also throwing OW under the bus (which, IMHO, is where she belongs....as long as the bus has many, many wheels). Only he tells her that she is not under the bus.

This is also an issue of sexual harassment in the workplace because she was/is a supervisor.

She may lose her job. The affair, however, will likely continue in spite of that, because your WH will feel even MORE sorry for her.

You need to act now.


Expose to OW's family and husband if she has one.

Have your husband's bags packed and ready to go for him.

Tell him that he has one chance, and that time is right this moment. Point to the door, and say,

"You are 100% in this marriage with ME, only, or you must leave. Any other choice except a 100% commitment, and you must walk out now. If you stay, you have to know there will be lots of very hard work ahead, and this will NOT be the easy way out. In fact, this will be the very hardest thing you have ever faced in your life. We can get through this affair, and I know that you have likely had a physical affair with OW - what we cannot survive is having your OW in the middle of our marriage, and you continuing to contact her and have her in your life. We cannot continue to survive all of your lies.

You choose. Stay or go. Choose now, and make sure it is exactly what you want."


If he stays, the next thing you need for him to do is to understand the no contact letter, the EPs, and Radical Honesty.


Because he must tell you about his physical affair.

He has been sexually involved with her, and you need to be prepared to hear that.


He will try to lie about it. He is afraid that if he tells you everything, you will immediately divorce him. Be ready to hear his confession. Be ready for the worst.

File for an order of protection against the skanky and desperate posow and get it done NOW. If your wh doesn't want to end things w/her and TAKE THE MB EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS necessary to end the affair FOR LIFE...then he is out on his azz.

HAVE you exposed to posow's h? Does her H know she is a skank? I think he should find out like yesterday.

And I would consult an attny to begin charges of sexual harassment against the ow, and do let them know she has threatened you, citing that she and your WH are in love and blah blah blah, which confirms her sexual harassment of a coworker who works under her.

If wh will not commit 100 percent TODAY to extraordinary precautions and END FOR LIFE the affair, then when he leaves for work tomorrow, smile, kiss him goodbye, and tonight make his favorite meal and give him happy memories...because when he leaves tomorrow YOU GO PLAN B.

that means locks are changed, and his clothes are out on the lawn for all the world to see and the plan b note is taped to them. Btw, please get yourself tested for stds' at your doctors' immediately.

YOu can beat this affair!!! You stand strong against it. Sweetie, you've been thru too much and it's time to take a stand for YOURSELF. I know you've been hurting, but we have a plan here. and it works. Whether the wayward stays or goes in the end, Marriage Builders works. Just read my signature line and you'll see.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see where anyone was blaming you. The A was not, and is not, and will never be your fault.

What you will be blamed for is if you do not take the steps QUICKLY to protect your own health and well-being from a long, terrible period of abuse.

He has abused you for more than 7 months. Now that you have had a chance to learn a different way - a better way - you are responsible to safeguard yourself from further abuse.

MB is the very best chance you have for marital recovery, and the same plan will lead you to a complete personal recovery whether your M makes it or not.

You are right. The whole thing was abuse, to me and to the kids.
The affair is over. H is not in contact with OW, and is spending the rest of his life making it up to me. He said he'd been insane, wasn't thinking straight, has been stupid and foolish, and apologizes to me over and over again. There have been many confessions about every horrible detail, and even though it makes me angry I want to know it all so it will never ever happen again.
We spend all out leisure time together or with our children, and we have no more separate activities from eachother.
He has not worked with OW in 6 months. It is a chain of retail stores, and when someone gets a phone call, it is answered by the front desk and the other employees know about it. All of her numbers (including business # she was transferred to 35 miles away) are blocked from calling our cell phones because of the harrassment.
She has threatened to pursue charges of defamation of character against me for the exposure to her family on 10/16/11. I wish I'd included her fam in the original exposure 3/12/11 when I found out; I told OUR whole families AND our kids (didn't know about MB back then), but she kept after him because she'd suffered no consequenses until recently.
Prior to the affair with my H, OW's H was forcibly removed from her home 2 years ago for violent abuse of OW. I did not see a need to expose to him.

I had wanted to go to plan B, but was not sure how to do it. We have two 7-year-olds. I work full time and pay the bills. H takes the kids to school and picks them up and works part time and does the household chores.
I'd thought about writing the Plan B letter and taking the kids and disappearing with them, but they would miss school, and I would have to get off work for an indefinite period of leave. And wouldn't there be consequenses to me for kidnapping and/or abandonment? How would I get custody if Plan B had gone wrong, after yanking the kids out of school so irresponsibly?
Those are the things that stopped me.

Are they divorced? Do they live together?

In Plan B, you would ask him to leave. Plan B is a separation. Has he taken steps to end all contact with the OW? What has he done to ensure she can't get through? Has anything changed at all?

Melody, they are not divorced and they do not live together.

When I asked him to leave after D-day, he told me it's his house too, and I could leave, but he was not leaving. When I asked a lawyer about it, he said that was true: "There is no Marriage Police", and we'd have to undergo a year's separation while living under the same roof and being "civil" while he continued to do as he liked. (Or I could move out and support 2 households.)

OW has been publicly embarrassed in front of many of their colleagues from several store locations. She harrassed H and was rejected and ignored in front of everyone and no longer thinks my H "loves" her and not me. (long and seedy story)

I am sure she will try to call him again - at work - in 2 or 3 months. He is to say "Don't call me again" and hang up and then tell me. This has happened several times before the humiliation. If he ever speaks to her again and doesnt tell me immediately, I am filing for D and will not see him or speak to him again. He knows the deal. He knows what he has put at risk. I would like something in writing though, and notorized.

IAint, you need to get a better lawyer. It sounds like the one you talked to likes to take the easy way out. I've never heard of any state requiring you to put up with an ongoing affair for a year! A lot of lawyers really just want to go with what is easiest for them, rather than doing their real job, which is to help you get what you need within the law.

Read up on Dr. Harley's Plan B and take it to a couple more lawyers and say "This is what I need, and I need a lawyer who will help me get it. Are you the one?"

That cannot happen. You need to find a GOOD attorney who will get him out. Most attorneys are lazy and will take the path of least resistance. You need one who will get him out. That is stupid of him to say you could undergo "separation" while living under the same roof. If you live together, you are not "separated."


This does not solve the problem. Solving the problem would mean taking steps so she CAN'T ever get through. Telling you that she called is not a solution. I am an alcoholic. If I take a drink and I tell my husband, am I any less drunk? No. Telling you does not negate the fact that her call triggered him.

He needs to somehow block her from calling or get a # she doesn't know. Even if it means he leaves that job.

Why, at this time are you looking into plan B? Has you H broken the no contact rule?
Am I missing something?

Plan B is for helping a BS protect themselves from an active WW's actions. You really need to read up on the plans.

Plan B is certainly not you "going into hiding" with your children. Plan B is a plan of dignity and peace for the BS. It removes you from the drama, pain and destruction of an active A.

Why this now?

Please go back and read the thread.

I also do not understand why at this time there would be any reason to go to plan B.

No Contact has not been broken. H is actively working on the marriage and is with me 100%. He is remorseful for the deep hurt that he has caused.

OW knows that if she contacts him again, I will expose her actions to her children and to her employer. I told this to both her and her 21-year-old daughter, who was her accomplice (provided secret phone and helped and encouraged her mother to continue pursuing married man after he told her it was over). When H would not take OW's calls, she had her daughter try to bother him. Then when that didn't work, she tried to contact our 21-year-old son.

The scene she created in public was a negative and humiliating experience for her and embarrassing to my H. No sane person in her situation would ever try to contact the AP again.

Here is the reason why as you told us in your first post on this thread - and they most certainly had been in contact with no plan in sight to prevent such contact:





The problem is not the OW, but that your H has not ended contact. As long as she is free to contact HIM, the affair has not ended. When a WH refuses to end contact, the solution is PLAN B.

I don't think YOU understand what no contact means. It means that YOUR HUSBAND does not take her calls. Not that he "tells you" when she calls, but that he cuts off contact so she can't ever contact him. That he changes his numbers, files restraining orders, does whatever necessary to end contact.

You have been through THREE D-DAYS this year, and your husband STILL has not taken extraordinary precautions to end contact. You should have gone into Plan B months ago.

You have been through THREE D-Days, because you DON'T GET that the issue is not your husband "telling you" when the OW calls, but that he takes her calls AT ALL.

Until you get that, you are headed for more D-days until he leaves you for the OW.

SANE, waywards are not sane. What OW does at this point is not near as important to what your WH does or doesn't do.

I'm afraid that you have a major gas-lighting, cake-eating, conflict avoider on your hands and that this A is far from over. YOU can only enforce your boundaries and Plan B does that. Until your WH is willing to do whatever it takes to protect you and your marriage, he is still very much wayward.

IAINT, I guarantee you that if you spoke to Dr Harley he would tell you to MOVE to another town. Your H is hopelessly addicted to the OW and it is very likely you aren't going to make it if you stay there.

Here is a radio show you need to listen to because this is where you are headed:



He has told women in your position to move away, go into Plan B and let your WH follow you. That way, you win either way. If he comes, you have a marriage. If he doesn't come, you are far away from his him and his affair.


How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Blackmail is woefully ineffective. The threat of blackmail is even more so.

EXPOSURE is the key to ending an A. Even when there is fallout, and all kinds of negative consequences, your M can survive all of those. It WILL NOT survive the continued depredations of contact.

Perhaps you fear that, if you expose, you will have blown your weapon, and then what happens if she tries to contact again?

It's simple - you EXPOSE again.

ITA with moving. Most people would benefit from a move if they attempt to R, and you are definitely one of them.

If there is no marriage police, what is to stop you kicking him out and changing the locks?

Thats what I did. Even though it isnt legal (here in UK) there isnt anyone to tell me not to do it.

You need Plan B!

What kind of woman wants a txt realtionship, instead of a real one you may ask?



This is a very 'competitive' OW. She enjoys competing with you. She loves that he still takes her calls while going home to you. She prob dances around singing pussycat dolls, the poor deluded fool. If you were to remove yourself from the situation in Plan B, she'd no longer have a prettier, smarter, more successful woman to compete with. She'd just be left with some bum who got ditched by his wife.

Your h knows this full well and is intent on keeping two women in love with him.

Something to think about.

Melody, yes I got that from the beginning; the fact that he would take her calls at all was the crux of the problem.

If NC had been in place immediately in March, it would not have dragged out like this. Early April was the logical time for me to go into plan B; 4 weeks had passed, I had shown him my very best and he still wasn't ready to believe in me. There would have been no more D-days, just him begging to come home, now I know for sure.

Indie, your insight is uncanny. I have thought about this from all angles. OW was comfortable with her role as the other woman in other peoples' marriages. She had done it before and will certainly do it again, because that is her nature, and her daughter, Homewrecker Junior, is there to advocate for her at every step of the way.

She thoroughly enjoyed competing with me, and eating the leftover crumbs from a man whose basic needs were already being met.

H can see all of this more clearly every day now, how deep in he was, how he got there, how he'd been manipulated. NC has made a world of difference for him. The fog has cleared.

Listened to those video clips about Bob, and yes, that scared me a lot. H is determined that no one will ever come between us again.

Thank you all so much for your wisdom and insight.

Update: OW is gone. H is completely transparent. He makes sure I know where he is at every moment of every day.
His old anger and resentment of me is back though. He pu
ts his own needs ahead of mine. He doesn't keep up with things that need to be done the way he used to while he was striging 2 women along
Everything is his way or he gets a defensive attitude. Everything that has ever gone wrong in his life he has a way of making me feel responsible for

22 years ago we took vows. One of the commitments he made was to be a father to my son and daughter, then 2 and 3 years old. Throughout our marriage most of our arguments have been about how he wants to handle my firstborn

Do you have the book His Needs Her Needs for parents?

There's a chapter about blended families.

Have you listened to these clips?

Here's some excellent radio clips on blended families.
Please listen and tell me what you think.
Radio Clip on Blended Families
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4 [/quote]

Thanks, Brain. I don't get much opportunity to media stream, because there are always people with me.

I am thinking I may need a private investigator to check on OW and see if she is getting on with her life, if she's involved with someone else, or if she was found some other way to stay wrapped up in my husband.

I don't know if the damage has been too extensive, now that he's has proven to himself and to me that he can keep two women in love with him for almost a year. Can loving one woman who loves him completely ever be enough for a man who has already done this?

He has been working hard to meet all my ENs. We have a few setbacks. We have disagreements on things such as what will happpen to our (my) oldest child (25) when he returns, and about willingness to raise our (my) grandson.

We have UA time at least 2 hours every evening. He has been calling me and letting me know where he is and what he's doing and who he's with at all times.

I am finally able to concentrate at work again. I still have trouble eating and have not gained back any of the 40 lbs. I lost (30 of it needed to go anyway).

He loves music. I love music. We enjoy it a lot together. Our DS 21 is a part-time musician. We are very proud of him. He gets more love and attention from my H than the other grown kids. Recently my H has uploaded some of his performances to Youtube and linked them to facebook. I am not yet comfortable with H's use of facebook, but I have his password, and he shows me everything.

This morning, he sent a video of our son's song to his old girlfriend from when he was in high school before he met me. (They had a 3-year relationship and loved eachother. It had ended 2 or 3 years before H and I met in 1989.) There was a long message thread of the two of them talking about music going back a couple of years. I had known about it. It stopped before OW came into the picture, but reading it now, it looks as though he was courting a new relationship with his old high school girlfriend, ending posts with "until tomorrow" and "stay in touch", talking a lot to her about things he could have been talking with me about. It looked like flirting to me.

I have his password. OW is blocked. He swears he's had no contact with OW since 11/9/11 and does not want to talk to her or have any other relationship with any other woman but me.

How do I know if he has other secret facebook/email accounts? I am not technical enough to intall keyloggers on everything (not to mention the expense) without his detection.

I have put my whole heart and soul into being the very best wife I can be. For over a year I have made DH the most important person in my life. (We never had initial honeymoon years together, because we have always had children.) I have been meeting all his ENs.

I will never love another man the way I love him. No one else has ever made me feel the way he does. Most of the time he downright worships me.

Should I be ready to quit?

Polygraph?

He would be pleased to prove himself and do one if he has nothing to hide.

That call is up to you. But if you want to remain in this marriage you're going to need to get snooping to confirm his commitment to the marriage. And right now I'm not convinced he's committed.

He has no business sending music, or anything else, to another woman.

You need to get busy getting technical enough. It doesn't require a lot of computer savvy to be able to install a keylogger. Go to www.spectorsoft.com and look at the eblaster. It takes very little time to install. (NOTE: Set up a new email account that your WH doesn't know about to order this - you will email confirmation from them, and they may send you updates after installation. You will also go to that email account to get the reports for what your H is doing on the computer. You don't want him to see any of this on the email account he knows about.)We can help you if you have questions on the installation, but it truly isn't difficult. And it's virtually undetectable. It is unlikely that he will find it.

He says he'll be happy to submit to a polygraph.

Marital, thank you for your advice. I will do exactly as you suggested if I have any more suspicions.

I answered the old high school girlfriend's message about where to come see my son play music and meet our family. She had not been interested in rekindling a 30-year-old relationship, and she's well established in her own life, her own marriage, and her own interests. H was not really either; the flirtatious messages were a precursor to his emotional entanglement with his former boss OW, whom he'd been working with for three years prior.

OW is gone. There has been no contact since 11/9/11, when we'd faced her down and showed her, together, that we were in love and she wasn't getting back in, and it's going to stay that way. She lives 40 miles south, and I told her that night in front of H and all their former coworkers to "Go home and stay there." She shouted, "If you have anything more to say come say it in the parking lot." I just laughed, my H with his arms around me, and all their collegues looking on.

Yet the false recoveries of last year (esp. Set-Oct) continue to bite me with their impact, sometimes distorting my thinking. I was conditioned to believe that there was something wrong with my mind for suspecting my H had strong feelings for someone else (impossible!), and it's slowly abating, that feeling that I must be crazy for lacking the power to stop the infatuation and for lacking the precience to know that he was still talking to her. (He fessed up when I said I had eveidence; said he was ready to end the pressure of continuing contact with OW).

I used to have nightmares: I'd dream that I was in her house, taking care of OW's children, because they couldn't find her, and that she was dead because I had poisoned her; then I'd look into the mirror and see her face and not my own. I'd wake up, my heart beating fast, putting a hand mirror to all parts of my body, making sure I was really me, really alive, really hadn't hurt anyone.

That was last Sept-Oct, while he was seeing her and giving me tons of time, energy, love, and reassurance all at the same time he'd renewed contact with OW.

So sanity is relative. It is finally abating, my urges to go find OW and kill her so I won't have to worry anymore. When H pisses me off about other issues (mainly FC these days) I still want to do that. I don't like that she had such power: to instill a character issue in my husband where he was previously flawless: Needing something new, growing easily bored with marital romance had been MY character flaw! My H was loyal and steadfast, all O&H. He's like that now again. The old him isn't going away.

But to think that anyone could have infatuated him the way OW did makes me just want to wipe her off the map.

I know she's a pathetic creature, and I will not do that. I cannot go to prison. I am a responsible person with a reliable job and two young children and a grandson to raise. I have everything I need on this world, including a husband who worships me, wants me, and never left me to begin with.

I am using what I've learned here to help with PSTD and to replace bad memories with good ones. I am haunted at times while I am at work. My H gives me JC and then some. We have always had a passionate relationship that included a lot of fighting, making up, and withdrawl (always MY withdrawl not his until Oct 2010).

He told me, just yesterday, and he'd told me before in FR (when it just killed me to hear it 13 months ago while they were still employed together) that the fantasy was more about the idea than it was about the person - being with someone you've never yelled at, told off, or made felt hated by.

Have you tried Marriage Coaching through Marriage Builders?

I would like to. How would we go about doing that?

Marital, thank you for telling me what I need to do if I suspect anything untoward.

Our other priorities have consumed our energies. My firstborn child is in prison. We have a grandchild to raise consequently. We still have two young children. DH's brother's wife died suddenly.

The fall coming is bad because the kids start school. WH is underemployed and will have a lot of time on his hands. There are plenty of constuctive things for him to do, but will he do them? Last year this time he took up with OW again. He was very good at lying about seeing OW, but for the last 10 months (and for the last 21 years before OW) he has been totally honest and open about everything. (Last year he fessed up with no proof and has been unfaltering in his resolve to stay away from OW.)

But I still wish OW to be dead. That is for my own peace of mind, even though I know it is selfish.

I have asked him to write in his own hand and sign it, that he will never talk to her or see her again, even if he and I don't make it. He hasn't done it yet, and he say he'll do it, that there's nothing left there, it's dead, that there's no point.

It's for my reassurance that I need him to do this. He said it feels like a punishment. That was not my perspective at all; I am not trying to punish him. I even told him if it were me who'd cultivated a romantic relationship with another man and then gone back to rekindle it later, that I would happily write such a document just to make him feel better. He says yes I'll write it. But he hasn't.

He's always been a procrastinator about everything big. That's okay; I can live with that. But without the written promise I feel as though my life is hanging in the balance. I told him so.

I told him I'll have to move on without him if he can't do this for me. He said he can and he will, but he hasn't. OW is still alive out there. It's not in my best interest to kill her. I am not insane. But I have to be able to go to work and not worry about what he is doing while I'm not with him.

Here you go.
The Marriage Builders Coaching Center

IAint, this is sad news and I am sorry to hear it.

Where is the mother of your grandchild? Does she have any role in the upbringing?

Where is the father of your eldest two children? How did that marriage end?

Thanks, Sugar
The baby's mother is in prison also.

The father of my first son and daughter still lives with his own elderly parents, moving out from time to time. XH was never able to behave in the ways a parent would because of damage due to heavy drug use from a very young age.

I married him 11/1985 and left him 7/87. The divorce was final 7/89. I did not want to abandon him, but I was 19 and pregnant with my second child, and he did not help with the first baby. He was often out and wouldn't/couldn't say where he was, slept 14 hours a day, and rarely said 12 words at a time, not interested in sex, affection, meeting needs at all. Not saying I was a great wife to him either. At age 19 I wanted more out of life for my children and myself than he'd ever be able to give me. So I packed up and moved home and got started on a career to support my children. A had a lot of help from my parents.

My H wrote the letter that I wanted him to, that he will never contact OW again, whether I'm dead or alive. In his own writing.

Good.

Did you use the NC template? Have you sent it yet?

Brain, no I didn't. Neither of us will be contacting OW again.

My H's written note is for me. School has started. He's got lots of free time on his hands. Up to him to do something good with that.

Old yucky OW is thankfully out of our lives. H has no interest in contact with OW. After 10 months of her leaving us alone (completely :cloud9:), it would be poisonous to send her a letter and let her know that either one of us was thinking about her.

NC is in effect with OW after that horrible scene she made last November, in front of her friends and coworkers, yelling at us in public about H and me being together, watching our son play his guitar in our local bar. OW was thoroughly humiliated. I told her, quietly, off. She inivited me to the parking lot if I wanted to say more (had nothing to say). B!tch is a lot bigger than me. H has nothing more good or fond to say about her.

5 Years Later:

I crossed the Rappahanock River today for an entirely different reason than I rode across it 5 years ago today, October 16.

It only hit me hours later that today was that day, because everything is so different now than it was then. Recognizing this later, realizing recovery has occurred, was once unfathomable.

To see my H now, its hard to believe he was ever wayward in any shape or condition. My spouse is POJA, my ally. Who'da thunk...

Congratulations! I haven't read your thread, but I'm glad that you guys are following the POJA.