Bookstore | Courses, Seminar and Accountability | Videos | Coaching Center | Questionnaires | Marriage Builders® Radio | Radio Archive
   Home | Tax-deductible Donation | Site Tour | Meet Dr. Harley | Basic Concepts | Q&A Columns | Articles | Discussion Forum

Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.

If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.

The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.

We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.

Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail Denali at MBDenali@gmail.com

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 23 1 2 3 22 23
Need Help with Plan B #2585737
01/15/12 05:06 PM
01/15/12 05:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
J
Justthe3ofus Offline OP
Member
Justthe3ofus  Offline OP
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
After reading MelodyLane's recent and valuable thread on cutting corners with the MB processes, I learned that my Plan B is actually a "Plan C," and Plan C's lead to divorce according to Dr Harley. I would like to un-modify my plan b and go orthodox Harley with it. But there are challenges in doing that.

My wife left the house last September when she finally admitted to me that she was having an affair. I gave her the choice of ending it or leaving, and she chose to leave. I was in plan A for about a month-and-a-half before that, but once she admitted the truth I couldn't maintain my intense job and her affair at the same time. I went straight to plan B and exposed the affair to her family. I did not expose to anyone related to the AP because I know nothing about him since I could not install a keylogger on her password-protected computer or phone. She keeps him a secret. Only my MIL knows anything about him as far as I know. She plans to move overseas with her AP this summer. I will have the kids.

In order to protect my children and assets (her AP lives overseas and is a Muslim--so is she now)I consulted with an attorney and filed for a legal separation. I made it clear to her that I want to leave open the door to marital reconciliation. However, she immediately responded by filing for divorce.

Getting back to plan b, I didn't really follow it correctly. My wife and I have been in communication the whole time: texting and e-mail mostly, along with an occasional letter and phone call. She also has a key to the house and is here with the kids after I leave for work and before I come home. I have kept this arrangement for the sake of the children and my in-laws. My in-laws, who live within blocks of us, have been incredibly supportive through this ordeal. They don't approve of what my STBX is doing and they care deeply for my DD's. I have known them for 27 years, and my relationship with them hasn't changed since this all started. I am worried that if go into full NC, my in-laws will be put in an awkward position, and I don't want to jeopardize my relationship with them. They are still family to me, and the girls need them. They may regard changing the locks and having no contact with my STBX as punitive and an act of war. Taking away my STBX's access to the house will severely complicate matters. There is no room to be with both girls in my MIL's small apartment and it is a retirement community.

Here is my plan: I am going to share with my MIL and sister-in-law (STBX's sister) what plan b is. I'll send them a few links to help, but I'll also explain it myself in a nut shell. They will know that I'm doing this to save the marriage and I think they will be supportive, even though they probably don't think it can be saved at this point. The only possible IM I think can work is my MIL. I know that Dr. Harley recommends against this, but I think they will all think having a stranger be the IM is nutty. My STBX may not cooperate with an IM she doesn't know. I know of no one locally who could do it. I don't know what to do and would like some help. As far as my MIL being the IM, I believe that she is in favor of saving the marriage and her primary concern right now is the girls. If divorce gets messy (STBX hasn't signed the marriage settlement agreement yet) then I will have to change IM's; if it doesn't, I think it can work. I have been very careful not to put her in the middle of things. But she may think that Plan B is stupid and not understand why I have to have an IM. I'll do my best to explain.

Finally, saving this marriage is a longshot. She fell out of love 4 years ago due to my neglect. She claimed that there is nothing I can do to restore her feelings of love for me, and I didn't know how to properly deal with that. We both stopped meeting each others needs and I had a 2 month online EA last year at this time. I was repentant but also foolishly arrogant in the aftermath. It was only after reading HNHN's this past summer that I recognized the full err of my ways. She says she has no life here anymore. She wants out and it will take a miracle to get her back. I remain steadfastly prayerful. My only hope at this point is for her affair to crumble and for her to get out of the fog. Even if it ends, she wants out of the marriage. Even my DD doesn't think she'll come back if and when the affair ends. And if she does come back, she'll have to agree to NC with AP and to work on the marriage by applying the MB principles.

Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: Justthe3ofus] #2585739
01/15/12 05:21 PM
01/15/12 05:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
M
maritalbliss Offline
Member
maritalbliss  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
Quote:
I have kept this arrangement for the sake of the children and my in-laws.
Don't you think your children and in-laws would prefer that the two of you recover your marriage? Would they not be open to an idea that might accomplish that, as opposed to you allowing her to ease out of your marriage, which is what you are proposing and have been practicing?


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: maritalbliss] #2585745
01/15/12 05:35 PM
01/15/12 05:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
J
Justthe3ofus Offline OP
Member
Justthe3ofus  Offline OP
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
Yes, Maritalbliss, I do. And I had a feeling this would be pointed out. Just to be clear, I'm not going to resist the advice of veterans such as yourself. I need concrete advice that will help me to salvage the mess I made out of plan b.

Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: Justthe3ofus] #2585746
01/15/12 05:43 PM
01/15/12 05:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
M
maritalbliss Offline
Member
maritalbliss  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus
Yes, Maritalbliss, I do. And I had a feeling this would be pointed out. Just to be clear, I'm not going to resist the advice of veterans such as yourself. I need concrete advice that will help me to salvage the mess I made out of plan b.
You're going to have to start by taking the man pants off your WW and putting them back on, sir. I read your post and saw you bending over backward to explain why Plan B can't possibly work for you. I'd like you to do this: go back and read your own post. Write down every objection you listed for why Plan B can't work in your case. Then write next to each objection how you can work around it. There is a way for every objection. It took me less than a minute to poke a hole in every objection. Take another look, and you'll find the same holes.

You are operating from a point of fear. Let me ask you this: What do you stand to lose? Your WW is planning to abandon her family and move out of the country! If Plan B totally blew up in your face, what would be worse than what she's already doing???


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: Justthe3ofus] #2585748
01/15/12 05:44 PM
01/15/12 05:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
M
MelodyLane Offline
Member
MelodyLane  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
Just, why do you think you need to be in Plan B? Can you explain your reasoning to me?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: MelodyLane] #2585755
01/15/12 05:54 PM
01/15/12 05:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
J
Justthe3ofus Offline OP
Member
Justthe3ofus  Offline OP
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Just, why do you think you need to be in Plan B? Can you explain your reasoning to me?


Good Socratic question, Melody. Truthfully, I think I gave up after she filed for divorce. I sort of took myself out of any semblance of plan b and focused on the settlement agreement. Mistake.

In short, I need to be in Plan B because I want to eliminate any conversations that will include love busters on my part. I'll let the AP do that once they are together and the fantasy erodes. Unfortunately, I let too much Plan C time come between my Plan A and my Plan B. It could be too late for me, but I'm going to try anyway.

Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: Justthe3ofus] #2585756
01/15/12 05:58 PM
01/15/12 05:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
M
MelodyLane Offline
Member
MelodyLane  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus
[
In short, I need to be in Plan B because I want to eliminate any conversations that will include love busters on my part.


Are you certain that you can't control lovebusters? See, you have a REAL advantage over this guy if you would use it. He is not there and you have opportunities he does not have.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: MelodyLane] #2585759
01/15/12 06:04 PM
01/15/12 06:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
J
Justthe3ofus Offline OP
Member
Justthe3ofus  Offline OP
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus
[
In short, I need to be in Plan B because I want to eliminate any conversations that will include love busters on my part.


Are you certain that you can't control lovebusters? See, you have a REAL advantage over this guy if you would use it. He is not there and you have opportunities he does not have.


Funny you should mention that. I was thinking this week for the first time in a long time that I didn't Plan A long enough, even though there was no way I could maintain my job with her having her affair under our roof. She was up all night skyping. Still does. Can't live with that.

What are your thoughts?

Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: Justthe3ofus] #2585760
01/15/12 06:05 PM
01/15/12 06:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
M
MelodyLane Offline
Member
MelodyLane  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus
Finally, saving this marriage is a longshot.


Her affair is a much, much longer shot. The chances of her affair ever coming to anything are next to none. Only 5% of affairs ever get married and 70% of those get divorced in under 5 years. On the other hand 65% of marriages stay together after affairs.

See, this guy is a loser who is just having a little fun. He will dump her as soon as he tires of her or at the first sign of conflict. And they don't have the benefit of Marriage Builders so when the lovebusters begin, it will go down fast.

Quote:
She fell out of love 4 years ago due to my neglect. She claimed that there is nothing I can do to restore her feelings of love for me,


But, she is a falling down drunk and has no idea how to restore the love in your marriage. YOU DO.. Not that it is relevant, but almost every WS claims they "fell out of love years ago." That is a hindsight perspective that is written on the basis on a new comparison, the point of comparison being a fantasy. It is like a heroin addict who decides his whole life history has been miserable because he didn't have heroin before. He is rewriting history and comparing his past to the high of heroin.

Fallling out of love is a problem to be solved, not a reason to break up.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: Justthe3ofus] #2585763
01/15/12 06:15 PM
01/15/12 06:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
M
MelodyLane Offline
Member
MelodyLane  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus
[
In short, I need to be in Plan B because I want to eliminate any conversations that will include love busters on my part.


Are you certain that you can't control lovebusters? See, you have a REAL advantage over this guy if you would use it. He is not there and you have opportunities he does not have.


Funny you should mention that. I was thinking this week for the first time in a long time that I didn't Plan A long enough, even though there was no way I could maintain my job with her having her affair under our roof. She was up all night skyping. Still does. Can't live with that.

What are your thoughts?


First off, I think you did the right thing by protecting yourself legally and getting her out of the house. Her skyping all night was destructive to your health. She was flaunting her affair in front of you and your kids which had to have been intolerable. And my hat is off to you for getting full custody of your kids. That is amazing and I applaud you for doing that for several reasons. You don't know who this scumbag is and there was always a chance that your children would be harmed. You have effectively taken steps to protect your kids from that.

I would forget Plan B and go back to Plan A. You are in a position to do Plan A for a very long time and compete with this loser. AND WIN. With her out of the house, she is not flaunting the affair in your face so it isn't as hard to associate with her.

By giving her the cold shoulder treatment, you just make the OM look good in comparison. But if you went back into Plan A and really did a good job, YOU would look good in comparison.

I would try to cause some havoc in her affair. Ask your MIL to find out who the OM is because you want to quietly contact his family and confront him. OM are typically cowards and lowlifes and this guy will not like any conflict at all. We have had OM run off by exposing the affair to their families. Would your MIL help you get his contact information? Will she help you?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: MelodyLane] #2585766
01/15/12 06:25 PM
01/15/12 06:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
M
MelodyLane Offline
Member
MelodyLane  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
When will she be signing the divorce settlement giving you full custody?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: MelodyLane] #2585771
01/15/12 06:36 PM
01/15/12 06:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
J
Justthe3ofus Offline OP
Member
Justthe3ofus  Offline OP
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus
Finally, saving this marriage is a longshot.


Her affair is a much, much longer shot. The chances of her affair ever coming to anything are next to none. Only 5% of affairs ever get married and 70% of those get divorced in under 5 years. On the other hand 65% of marriages stay together after affairs.

See, this guy is a loser who is just having a little fun. He will dump her as soon as he tires of her or at the first sign of conflict. And they don't have the benefit of Marriage Builders so when the lovebusters begin, it will go down fast.

Quote:
She fell out of love 4 years ago due to my neglect. She claimed that there is nothing I can do to restore her feelings of love for me,


But, she is a falling down drunk and has no idea how to restore the love in your marriage. YOU DO.. Not that it is relevant, but almost every WS claims they "fell out of love years ago." That is a hindsight perspective that is written on the basis on a new comparison, the point of comparison being a fantasy. It is like a heroin addict who decides his whole life history has been miserable because he didn't have heroin before. He is rewriting history and comparing his past to the high of heroin.

Fallling out of love is a problem to be solved, not a reason to break up.


Melody,

Agree 100%, and I have expressed all of these points to her, including the statistics you cited, in a series "love" letters. My constant theme to her is that love CAN be restored, and a NEW relationship can be re-created that is better than ever. And that thousands of doomed marriages have been saved. But she doesn't want to be educated.

Sounds to me like you might be saying, 1) stay in my current mode, 2) let her affair die its own natural death (and I agree with you that it will) and 3) then attempt recovery if and when she returns.

I am willing to do that with MB stipulations in place. In fact, that is the only hope I see.

My daughter told me yesterday that if the affair dies, my wife will have too much pride to come back. Seeing her resentment and contempt right now, I can understand why my daughter feels that way. I have the same fear. She's been so unhappy and has said to me many times, "My life is over here."

By the way, she fell out of love 4 years ago, long before she was in an affair. I'm certain of it because her way of acting was much different once the affair started. I knew the affair was cooking when it started...the behavior and actions changed. Even Jennifer Harley Chalmers (who was excellent by the way when I was in Plan A) was skeptical of an affair when I was pretty sure something was going on. The point is, love has been gone for a long time and I've read that women who fall out of love often don't come back no matter what. That's not to say I'm quitting. I have nothing to gain by giving up. But I know the odds are long right now.

Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: Justthe3ofus] #2585774
01/15/12 06:47 PM
01/15/12 06:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
M
MelodyLane Offline
Member
MelodyLane  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus


Melody,

Agree 100%, and I have expressed all of these points to her, including the statistics you cited, in a series "love" letters. My constant theme to her is that love CAN be restored, and a NEW relationship can be re-created that is better than ever. And that thousands of doomed marriages have been saved. But she doesn't want to be educated.


Right. And you can't educate a falling down drunk. That is about as effective as selling AA to a falling down drunk. grin But you have planted seeds for the future. I would not educate her anymore.

Quote:
Sounds to me like you might be saying, 1) stay in my current mode, 2) let her affair die its own natural death (and I agree with you that it will) and 3) then attempt recovery if and when she returns.


I would abandon Plan C and go into Plan A. Start reaching out to her. Be creative, but don't go overboard. Be as friendly and attractive as possible.

What you are doing is making yourself an attractive place to land when her affair crumbles. Do your best to pull her away. You will see her become suddenly very confused.

Quote:
The point is, love has been gone for a long time and I've read that women who fall out of love often don't come back no matter what.

Fortunately thats not true in the least! About 99% of people who have affairs have fallen out of love. And 65% of them reconcile. So, never fear about that! We have scads of recovered marriages right here on this forum where the couples had fallen out of love.

Quote:
That's not to say I'm quitting. I have nothing to gain by giving up. But I know the odds are long right now.


I agree. I don't think the odds are as bad as you think. The affair is not logical and won't last in the light of day. The OM will never be able to compensate her for the loss of her children and her entire family, if it EVER gets that far. Which I seriously doubt.

Did you read my comment about raising hell with the OM? How can you find out who this loser is?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: MelodyLane] #2585778
01/15/12 06:59 PM
01/15/12 06:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
J
Justthe3ofus Offline OP
Member
Justthe3ofus  Offline OP
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
Melody,
I did read the comment about the OM. She keeps him under lock and key. No one knows who he is. Her trips are clandestine. I will keep trying to find him.

By saying go to Plan A, you're not suggesting she be allowed back in the house, are you?

Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: Justthe3ofus] #2585782
01/15/12 07:16 PM
01/15/12 07:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
M
maritalbliss Offline
Member
maritalbliss  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus
Melody,
I did read the comment about the OM. She keeps him under lock and key. No one knows who he is. Her trips are clandestine. I will keep trying to find him.

By saying go to Plan A, you're not suggesting she be allowed back in the house, are you?

I believe her parents may know who OM is. They have surely asked her about him. Keep at it with them. Tell them that you believe you can keep their daughter home in the USA and not lose her to some scumbag from another country - but you need their help. They have to understand that your efforts will keep their daughter here.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: maritalbliss] #2585787
01/15/12 07:32 PM
01/15/12 07:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
J
Justthe3ofus Offline OP
Member
Justthe3ofus  Offline OP
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
I will have that talk right away, Maritalbliss. Thank you.

Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: Justthe3ofus] #2585798
01/15/12 07:58 PM
01/15/12 07:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
M
MelodyLane Offline
Member
MelodyLane  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus


By saying go to Plan A, you're not suggesting she be allowed back in the house, are you?



Oh no, I am NOT suggesting she move back in. She is so flagrant that it would wear you down quick. Better to do Plan A from afar.

And I agree 100% with MaritalBliss. I bet the mother knows who it is. I would have a heart to heart with the MIL and ask her to help you. Tell her there is a strong chance you can run this guy off and save your marriage if you know who he is. Explain to her that this guy is a bum who has no character who is likely to dump her at the first sign of conflict. It is obvious he doesn't care about her or he wouldn't be trying to take her away from her own children. Your wife is getting ready to make the biggest mistake of her life. She will NEVER overcome this. But there is a chance you can stop her if the MIL will help you find this guy.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: MelodyLane] #2585800
01/15/12 08:00 PM
01/15/12 08:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
M
MelodyLane Offline
Member
MelodyLane  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 90,566
Texas
If you can kill this affair and attract her back, you will be in a position to set the conditions of reconciliation, ie: based on MB concepts.

You aren't giving her any more support than what is court ordered, are you?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: MelodyLane] #2585804
01/15/12 08:05 PM
01/15/12 08:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
J
Justthe3ofus Offline OP
Member
Justthe3ofus  Offline OP
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
I will talk to my MIL tomorrow when she is away from my wife. I will also go back to Plan A. Up until recently, due to the anger, I couldn't do it. I can now.

Many, many thanks for your help!!!

Re: Need Help with Plan B [Re: Justthe3ofus] #2585816
01/15/12 08:35 PM
01/15/12 08:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
J
Justthe3ofus Offline OP
Member
Justthe3ofus  Offline OP
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,311
Melody,

You asked about custody. I won't technically have full custody until she signs the agreement. My attorney sent it to her before Christmas. She's sitting on it. She agreed to terms before it was drafted. Waiting for her to sign it.

My kids have been with me full time since she left the home. They see her on weekends and every day before and after school for a short time.

Thanks again for your clarifying insights. I am ready to move forward with a new Plan A.

Page 1 of 23 1 2 3 22 23


Marriage Builders®
Radio

FREE
BROADCAST
Marriage Builders®
Radio

Live Program
12:00-12:45pm CT
Monday-Friday


Rebroadcast

Every 45 Minutes
until the
Next Broadcast


All times Central Time.

DOWNLOAD MP3 FILES NOW!

More radio information...


Click here for
iPhone

Click here for
ANDROID

Most Popular Links
* The Marriage Builders? Discussion Forum
* How to Survive Infidelity
* The Most Important Emotional Needs
* Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts
* Coping with Infidelity:
Part 1 - How Do Affairs Begin?
* A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts
* Love Busters
* The Emotional Needs Questionnaire
* Q&A Columns
* The Policy of Joint Agreement

Who's Online Now
7 registered members (NOMO, NewEveryDay, 5 invisible), 20 guests, and 376 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

   Home | Tax-deductible Donation | Site Tour | Meet Dr. Harley | Basic Concepts | Q&A Columns | Articles | Discussion Forum
Bookstore | Courses, Seminar and Accountability | Videos | Coaching Center | Questionnaires | Marriage Builders® Radio | Radio Archive
|  Advertising  |  Feedback  |  Privacy Policy  |  Contact Us  |
© 1995-2018 Marriage Builders, Inc. All rights reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1
(Release build 20180111)
Page Time: 0.025s Queries: 15 (0.008s) Memory: 1.1857 MB (Peak: 1.4413 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-04-26 13:41:38 UTC