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Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? #2656080
08/14/12 05:44 AM
08/14/12 05:44 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,428
Australia
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Caracal Offline OP
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Caracal  Offline OP
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Australia
Hi all,

I am not really sure where to post this... it is not to do with a marriage.

I have just learned that a loved one is expecting a child. A de facto relationship (in Aus this is living together for 6+ months). He is upset. He had made clear he did not want children although clearly did not take action to ensure this. He is frustrated, and I suspect his resentment will grow.

I have not had to face him yet... I heard about the "blessing" from others. I suspect he will contact me tomorrow.

I have mixed emotions. I know he did not want children. I feel he has been conned by his partner, but given my own situation I am hardly objective.

How do I go about supporting him, and what is said when a pregnancy is not planned? I can't congratulate! I think he has made a huge mistake, but want to give the right advice. Given this is triggering me, I want to be sure what the right advice actually is!!!

This relationship is not MB and I know the relationship is doomed. Before the pregnancy I suspected the relationship was doomed. What on earth do I say???


Me (BW): 35
Married 1999 with no kids, DDay July 2011, OC born September 2012, Divorce final November 2012.

WXH (Gollum) is corrupted by his A, and now forever bound to it.

Plan B has set me free.

"Mourn the man he was. Know the man he is."
Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: Caracal] #2656083
08/14/12 06:36 AM
08/14/12 06:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
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alis Offline
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alis  Offline
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It's not the ideal situation (or even a good one) but there is nothing wrong with congratulating him on his child. A child is still a blessing. I don't think there's much you can offer in terms of advice. He is sleeping with someone when clearly somewhat uncommitted and it is only natural that a pregnancy will eventually result. Whether or not you feel he was "conned" (perhaps she feels he is dine & dashing? perspective...), he has a responsibility that comes along with the territory. The child has been created and unless they go for adoption or termination, then there is no sense poisoning a future co-parenting situation with such animosity. It's happened. They will need to learn to work together about it for the sake of an innocent child who had no choice in the matter.

Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: alis] #2656097
08/14/12 07:49 AM
08/14/12 07:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,859
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TheRoad Offline
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Never seeks to amaze me that a man complains that the low life trailer park **EDIT** tricked me into knocking her up.

What did he suspect?

Basic biology. When a man **EDIT** then complains that a baby is in the oven against his own free will.

Did this trailer park temptress hold a gun to his head to force him to copulate?

There is no 100% protection against contraception. People have gotten pregnant on the pill, vasectomies have been know to fail.

**EDIT** Unfortuantely people have sex with anyone instead of possible good marraige material partners incase something as an unwanted pregnancy happens.

Or the selfesh person that has to put his control stick in when he does not want kids.

Last edited by CicadaMB; 08/14/12 11:41 AM. Reason: TOS
Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: TheRoad] #2656123
08/14/12 09:22 AM
08/14/12 09:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437
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CWMI Offline
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CWMI  Offline
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You're hearing second hand about him being upset and frustrated.

Why does your family seem to dislike this woman he has chosen to live with and have sex with?

The right advice, imo, would be to give him HNHN for Parents and use whatever influence you have to encourage him to do the honorable thing and make his family official. And then to continue to be an honorable man, forever, using the tools available at MB.

I feel really sorry for the girl here, especially in light of my own situation. Unknown to me, everyone in my H's family knew he never wanted kids. We got together, and I already had one child, and let him know that I wanted another, I wanted my son to have siblings. He said he wanted kids, too. So we planned two children together. WE planned it. Then we had a third, unplanned. Then he told me that the only reason he'd said he wanted children was because he thought he couln't have any. Essentially, *I* was branded as a conner by his family, even though that was the exact opposite of the truth.

So be careful when you don't know what he has been telling her.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: CWMI] #2656180
08/14/12 11:40 AM
08/14/12 11:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437
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CWMI Offline
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Ugh, talk about triggered! That's me, on this post!

After the 'never wanted to have kids' conversation, my H admitted that he told me he wanted to have kids because he thought I would dump him if he didn't. Damn skippy! I was approaching 30, and not game for committed relationships that wouldn't lead to marriage and children. I didn't force him or talk him into it, I stated what I wanted and he said, "Me, too!" Before we got married! He had ample time to tell me he didn't want kids (and not dating a woman with a child already would have been a good move on his part).

Anyway, please refrain from calling her a con until you know the full story.

My H's aunt said, IN FRONT OF OUR KIDS, that H never wanted children. Yeah, we don't see her anymore after I told her, in front of the kids, that that was a strange thing to say considering the children were planned. Grrr...


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: Caracal] #2656193
08/14/12 12:24 PM
08/14/12 12:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,352
New York
N
NeverGuessed Offline
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NeverGuessed  Offline
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Caracal, please be very careful here. You are NOT part of this "de facto relationship". For good or ill, pregnancy or not, by virtue of his co-habitation Mr. Lucky has crossed some kind of threshold into a civilly-recognized union. This is only made more (not less) proprietary by the existence of a potential child. He should no more be discussing his intimate problems with you, than my wife should have been discussing her marital dissatisfaction with the late POSOM.

You wish him luck in coming to a mutually agreeable resolution between the two of them, and you hang up, or escort him to the door.

May that be hard for you? Yes! But rules and principles are only in place to assist when the unsupported choices ARE hard.


If the HEARTS of our enemies, Lord, cannot be turned,
then let their ANKLES be,
so we may know them by their limping!
My Story
Addenda
Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: NeverGuessed] #2656198
08/14/12 12:52 PM
08/14/12 12:52 PM
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CWMI Offline
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Wish him luck in resolution to a pregnancy? I don't see how an impending child needs resolution.

It needs parents in a mutallly supportive relationship.

Ya know. MB 101 stuff. If these parents don't have it, then give it to them as a gift, before the booties and blankies. Families need support, not meh, not my business. Don't force-feed, but dang, don't turn a blind eye on your loved one's troubles because it's none of your business! This is a major problem in our world. People won't get involved when asked, because its none of their business.

It is why exposure often fails.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: CWMI] #2656206
08/14/12 01:59 PM
08/14/12 01:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,352
New York
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NeverGuessed Offline
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New York
You're debating a premise that was not presented to us, CWMI.

Caracal has not asked us to recommend a plan to assist them - AS A COUPLE - in their rebuilding a relationship, and her thankfully honest words betray her bias in this matter. ("This relationship is not MB and I know the relationship is doomed. Before the pregnancy I suspected the relationship was doomed.") Her getting involved to assist the male escape this supposedly "doomed" situation would likely not end well, nor reflect well on Caracal.

If she cannot, as hinted, wholeheartedly urge him to man up and take responsibility for the results of his own actions, "surprise" though they be, she should not assist him in bolting, IMHO.


If the HEARTS of our enemies, Lord, cannot be turned,
then let their ANKLES be,
so we may know them by their limping!
My Story
Addenda
Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: NeverGuessed] #2656208
08/14/12 02:06 PM
08/14/12 02:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437
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CWMI Offline
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CWMI  Offline
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My mistake. I thought she asked for the right advice. Not advice that agreed with her premise of being a doomed relationship and unplanned and omg omg. smile


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: CWMI] #2656303
08/14/12 10:13 PM
08/14/12 10:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,704
Oklahoma City, Ok
K
kilted_thrower Offline
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kilted_thrower  Offline
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K
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,704
Oklahoma City, Ok
What do you mean conned? How do you think he was conned?

Now I have 2 daughters from an ex wife that purposefully stopped taking birth control and did not inform me until after she was pregnant... Twice.

We are divorced now.


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: kilted_thrower] #2656366
08/15/12 05:32 AM
08/15/12 05:32 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,428
Australia
C
Caracal Offline OP
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Caracal  Offline OP
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C
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,428
Australia
Thank you all for your responses. I need to be challenged in my thinking here, given my own resentment with my sitch. I realise it may be spilling over, and your views are calling me on that.

NG, if you're warning me to be careful is based on boundaries being crossed and EN's being met this isn't possible; this man is my brother frown

If, on the other hand, you are warning me not to get involved because I may give the wrong advice... please explain why (I think it is because you suspect my advice is to cut and run given my bias, but read the rest of this post before answering...)

I am sorry for triggering some of you with your own sitches. Was he "conned"? I can now see this was not the right choice of words. I don't know that he was "conned" for a fact because I do not know what has been exchanged between him and his GF.

What I do know. My brother was badly hurt by his WXW, who ran off with the OM and his 1-year-old DS. His WXW fought any access, and actually stopped him from seeing his DS for about 3 months. She claimed DV although this was discontinued at Court because of her lack of evidence. He eventually gained legal access visits to his DS, one weekend a fortnight. He vowed he would never go through custody disputes again, that he did not want more children as a result.

He began a relationship with this GF about 2 years ago. She had her DS (now aged 8) from a previous de facto relationship. The Courts intervened and awarded custody to the father when she moved interstate to be with my brother. Or so she claims. This is her version. Even if this is accurate, my opinion has always been that this is inexcusable. IMO, her DS should have come first. This is where my feelings of distrust come from.

Since I have been back in Aus, my brother has repeatedly told me and my parents (in front of GF) that he does not want to get married again (his view is you only marry once). He has repeatedly said to us and her that he does not want more children. My brother has said GF would like kids and marriage,and she has agreed. He tells her he is the wrong man if this is what she wants.

When my brother and GF announced the pregnancy yesterday (to my parents), he again said he did not want to have children but would support her. GF was quiet throughout.

This is not exactly painting either of them in a positive light is it? Warts and all, this is what it is. I know my brother is not without criticism here. I had cautioned him months ago when I learned of her wanting to have more children that this needed to be discussed... that maybe they were no suitable if it couldn't be POJA'd.

Now, I have given this background info but it is all for nought. Today my brother and his GF learned that she miscarried three weeks ago.

I am of the opinion my brother needs to have a serious look at whether this relationship is what he wants... if he wants children or not. IMO, if he does not want more kids, and she does, they should split now.

But I always welcome words of advice and opinions. I don't want to not get involved as many choose to when actually, I know my brother respects my opinion. But nor do I want to act on my own bias, and some of you are calling me on this.

Maybe I can't be impartial in this, and should stay out?


Me (BW): 35
Married 1999 with no kids, DDay July 2011, OC born September 2012, Divorce final November 2012.

WXH (Gollum) is corrupted by his A, and now forever bound to it.

Plan B has set me free.

"Mourn the man he was. Know the man he is."
Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: Caracal] #2656370
08/15/12 06:20 AM
08/15/12 06:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
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alis Offline
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alis  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Caracal,

It is understandable that you care so much, since this is your brother.

Your brother is being a fool if he does not want marriage and children yet continues to date this woman. This woman is being a fool if she wants marriage and children and continues to date him. I'm sure you know this.

She has not conned him anymore than he has conned her. By staying with her, she is being given hope, in her mind, that he will change. By her staying, he is given hope, in his mind, that she will change.

You will probably have a future nephew or niece if they continue. I'm not sure what else you can do but to tell him that he needs to leave as she is obviously open to having children and marriage. If he listens, great. But I doubt he will.

Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: Caracal] #2656382
08/15/12 07:47 AM
08/15/12 07:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Shrek's Swamp
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Pepperband Offline
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Pepperband  Offline
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Shrek's Swamp
Originally Posted By: Caracal


This relationship is not MB and I know the relationship is doomed. Before the pregnancy I suspected the relationship was doomed. What on earth do I say???



Just listen.
That's what I do when I can't think of something productive to say.
Support is sometimes offered with the ears, not the voice.

Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: Pepperband] #2656394
08/15/12 08:31 AM
08/15/12 08:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,704
Oklahoma City, Ok
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kilted_thrower Offline
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Oklahoma City, Ok
I agree that they should not have stayed together if they had opposite ideas of children and marriage. I do not believe he gave this woman false hope if he was continually honest about not wanting marriage or children. That is her own fault if she thought he would change.

All I can say is I hope she didn't get pregnant on purpose like my ex wife did.


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: Caracal] #2656418
08/15/12 09:23 AM
08/15/12 09:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,352
New York
N
NeverGuessed Offline
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NeverGuessed  Offline
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NG, if you're warning me to be careful is based on boundaries being crossed and EN's being met this isn't possible; this man is my brother

...which fact you intentionally hid from us.

I don't like being "played", especially when I'm responding to a request for help.

I'll not be back.


If the HEARTS of our enemies, Lord, cannot be turned,
then let their ANKLES be,
so we may know them by their limping!
My Story
Addenda
Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: Caracal] #2656422
08/15/12 09:33 AM
08/15/12 09:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Shrek's Swamp
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Pepperband Offline
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Shrek's Swamp
Originally Posted By: Caracal


NG, if you're warning me to be careful is based on boundaries being crossed and EN's being met this isn't possible; this man is my brother frown


An important bit of information you did not share .... faint

My advice still stands.
Just listen. Hug.

Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: kilted_thrower] #2656434
08/15/12 09:56 AM
08/15/12 09:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,389
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alis Offline
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Originally Posted By: kilted_thrower
I agree that they should not have stayed together if they had opposite ideas of children and marriage. I do not believe he gave this woman false hope if he was continually honest about not wanting marriage or children. That is her own fault if she thought he would change.

All I can say is I hope she didn't get pregnant on purpose like my ex wife did.


He is just as much at fault as she is, she has already given birth to one child, this pregnancy appears to have miscarried, and yet he is still dating her. If he doesn't want to have children, then he should make a better choice as to who he plays Russian Roulette with.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, well, the birds and bees still apply. They are both fools.

Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: alis] #2656447
08/15/12 12:16 PM
08/15/12 12:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437
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CWMI Offline
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Has he thought about getting snipped? Using condoms?

Maybe this little scare will push each of them to reevaluate their choices. Condolences to little momma, too. I can't imagine how she feels right now, but I imagine it would be a little tougher with a daddy who sounds as though he may be feeling nothing but relief.

I agree with kt about tricking someone into believing you are on BC, but I simply wanted to caution against that assumtion. Not even every accidental pregnancy is maliciously entered into.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: alis] #2657383
08/18/12 04:24 PM
08/18/12 04:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,231
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Letty Offline
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Letty  Offline
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Originally Posted By: alis
Caracal,
Your brother is being a fool if he does not want marriage and children yet continues to date this woman. This woman is being a fool if she wants marriage and children and continues to date him. I'm sure you know this.

She has not conned him anymore than he has conned her. By staying with her, she is being given hope, in her mind, that he will change. By her staying, he is given hope, in his mind, that she will change.

You will probably have a future nephew or niece if they continue. I'm not sure what else you can do but to tell him that he needs to leave as she is obviously open to having children and marriage. If he listens, great. But I doubt he will.


i have seen this with several people i know. the man thinks because he's STATED what his desires are, his actions don't matter (i've told her where i stand, and she's still here...). the woman thinks that his actions speak louder than his words (he SAYS he doesn't want kids, but knows that i do, and since he's still here...). bad communication all round.

these two have fundamentally different ideals about relationships, and you are right - their relationship is doomed because of it. they should stop wasting each other's time and allow each other to find partners that are the same. and they both would benefit from MB in their future relationships.


fBW 49
xWH 55
DD 22
DDay 6/07
D 8/15
Letting Go
Re: Unwanted pregnancy and how to support? [Re: Caracal] #2657486
08/19/12 10:09 AM
08/19/12 10:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
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black_raven Offline
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If your brother is adamant that he does not want any children, he should get a vasectomy. Whether it is this woman or any other in his future, HE should insure that a child in not a possibility because if a pregnancy ever comes to be, he has NO choice what she does with the pregnancy. Trusting a woman who says she wants kids, not to get pregnant is foolish. Even if she says she doesn't want children, there can always be a "surprise" or a dumb "con" moment, so get snipped.

I have told my own brother this same thing.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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