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Hello there :-)
I'm Peter, the betrayed husband.
I�m 36, she�s 34, married for 13 years, with children aged 6 and 3, we are living in Italy.
I'd like some opinion on these topics:
- What kind of her effort I should ask before knowing she's really committed to reconciliation?
- In the meantime should I try to rebuild my own life (also dating) trying to override the sentiment of remorse?


The story
06/2011 I start feeling my emotional need where not matched, and I asked more of her time for the family and for me. We were together way less than 15 hours per week, let alone the hours of undivided attention. My request were ignored, she continued working in optional non paid overdue work, to maximizing her career opportunity. I continued to complain. I also started feeling alone in my need and I proportionally stopped to fulfill some of other emotional need (mainly affection).
12/2011 She started an affair with a colleague. They work in a hospital, night shifts and monthly abroad conventions together. Whoaaa what a dream life :-)
7/2012 Discovery day
8/2012 I made my offering of forgiveness, and talked about a mutual plan to rebuild our marriage. Now I know I was silly to think her remorse should be enough to let her end the affair.
9/2012 She confessed the affair was still going on. Started therapy, both us individually, and also couple therapy. The couple therapist approved my need to move out. We ended the couple therapy. Exposure to families.
10/2012 I moved out and I stopped to fulfill all the other emotional need she continued to ask me. I dated briefly another woman. I then fall in depression for months.
02/2013 Not any sign of reconciliation. She stated the relationship with the other man was going well.
03/2013 Depression almost ended: I recovered a good control in my life, I ended my individual therapy, I started dating again and let her know about dating.
Since then she periodically try to talk about reconciliation, she asked me to stop seeing my female friends, which I did. She never followed entirely: I always asked her to think about the kind of life that would prevent our disaffection. But she always returns on how I should be different, without offering any meaningful compensation. She lied repeatedly about the end of the contacts with the other man.
The other man is already divorced, for cheating with another colleague, has children.
For the 4th time she says she ended contacts with the other man. And this time (as always) I feel she could be telling the truth. BUT I still feel her huge ambivalence and I'm pushing the paper for filing the separation. In Italy you need three years of separation before ruling a divorce.
Anyway today it seems I can't enjoy my life outside of the primary family, feeling always a sentiment of remorse, even in the best time I can get.
I'm not a liar and when she asks about my details I speak the truth. But she proved not able to handle the truth, and the news about me rebuilding a life put her in sabotage mode, lied about the end of contacts with the other man, just to let me stop see other woman. She never offered any contribution the reconciliation. Every time I understand she lied I suffered a lot. I just feel to be manipulated to satisfy her possessiveness. I ended my female friendships, but this was enough to move her out of her ambivalence.
Should I continue going out with my female friends? Some of them would like to go further in knowing each other, but as I said, I don't like to lie, and if I had a real change to rebuild my family and my marriage, I'd grab it without looking back. Howbeit friendship's opportunities flow easily.

The kids: we consulted with professionals, read books, and we are quite good collaborating for the kids. We decided not exposed the children to the cheating concept. I see them weekly. They spend the nights in my new apartment. But I see their fatigue growing day after day. I really feel we are letting them down. They don�t understand. They never saw us fighting. They want both of us with them. They were perfect, lovable and loving. Now they are insecure, slightly regressing. Kids� thoughts make me cry always, even now. But I can�t give them a father so lame to live with a cheating wife.

Again my doubts are:
- What kind of her effort I should require before knowing she's really committed to reconciliation?
- In the meantime should I try to rebuild my own life (also dating) trying to override the sentiment of remorse?

Thank you very much for the participation in this wonderful forum.
And thank you to anybody who read all my long post.

Best Regards

Peter

Last edited by Peter_ITA; 04/24/13 12:47 PM.
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Do not date.
You are not an available man.

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Are you and WW American expats?

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We are both Italian.
She sees her friend every day.
Why I can't see my friends sometimes? :-)
She doesn't seem to progress toward anything.
She is ambivalent as always. I risk to wait for her my entire life.

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Do what you want. This is Marriage Builders.

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Peter,

Dr Harley, the founder of MB and expert on recovering marriages after infidelity compares a cheating spouse to a drug addict or a drunk. This means that right now your WW is addicted to the thrill and rush of the A and is in a fog/fantasy world where she gets to have both of you. Your first step should be to do everything in your power to destroy this affair, including exposing the A to everyone who has an influence on your WW and the OM including their work management, colleagues, his friends and family and her friends and family. There are examples of the exposure letters on the site.

You have to be the sane non addict in this equation because your kids deserve better than both their parents off selfishly dating people they are not married to. You are STILL married and until the divorce is over you should not have any dates or relationships with other women because that makes you just as bad and foggy as your WW. It is not fair on your kids and it is not fair on the people you date.

There are far easier more moral things you could do to brake up the A and fight for your marriage like plan A where you show your wife what she would get if she was to give up the A by basically meeting all her emotional needs and showing her a path home. Or Plan B, where you cut all contact with your WW in order to show her what life without you would really be like giving you the space to recover from the injury she caused you by having this A. Both plans are on this site and neither plan involves dating while still married.

The choice is yours either fight with all your might to recover your marriage or give up and call it quits. It's time for you to commit to one of those choices. Having no plan is going to cause more pain and suffering for your children and they are already going though enough.

Trust me I'm half Italian and grew up in Rome and have a father who was married that had an A with my mother and I was the result, there has been nothing but pain and misery caused by my father who all he does is sleep around and destroys families. He has several kids all over the world and has nothing to do with any of them as he's too busy thinking with his nether regions to care about anything else.



BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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Thank you. I appreciate your point of view. Maybe I was hoping for a little more comprehension, since the name of the forum is �surviving an affair�, and I�m emerging in these weeks from a deep depression.
Anyway, I understand your suggested rules, which I was reading since August. And I applied them with all the strength I was able to use. Exposition, Plan A, Plan B, moving out. Nothing changed her mind in six months. And I thought that entitled me to try dating.
The only thing that moved her was knowing I was having other women. But her ambivalence remained.
In your opinion how long should I had to wait before dating?
You know the loneliness and the low self-esteem that come from infidelity. And you know that successfully dating can be consolatory. I never lie, to anyone. But I agree with you that I need to be legally separated before dating again. I�m fixing that detail in few days. But I don�t think that a piece of paper will help me with my remorse.
The other question remains:
What kind of her effort I should require before knowing she's really committed to reconciliation?
She says not spending nights out implies she has to renounce to her career. This is a fair compensation for my pain. Should I wait until she hypothetically changes her job? And until then I should continue with the silence therapy of plan B?
Three days ago she asked me to help creating momentum in the reconciliation. Today she worked in the same team with the other man, didn�t returned my call and texted she was busy working. She is never involved in emergency procedure. Is she crazy, still putting her job need before my emotional need?
We talked about in on the phone few minutes ago. I told her that as reconciliation test she performed way too [censored] for the reason mentioned above.
I exited my depression only when I was able to commit myself to rebuild my life, and cut her out of my thoughts.
Thinking about her, or about reconciliation and more than anything her words about reconciliation at first trigger my depression, an unemotional lethargic state where I don�t bother to do anything. Usually in this state I try to measure the sustainability of their claim, finding very few actions to back her statement. I get hurt and I go back committing myself to rebuild my life, cutting her out. When I feel stronger, my perception return to feel the good part of her fluctuation and the circle restarts.

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Peter, I would try using Marriage Builders concepts. So far you have not. For example, moving out was a major mistake. You can't very well save a marriage if you are not there. If your car is broken down, do you go in the garage to fix it or do you go to Cleveland?

The second glaring problem is that she works with the OM. What does MB say about that? And what does MB say about men going into Plan B? You say you have been reading here and following this program but I see no sign of it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Also, dating while married is called ADULTERY. You should not date until you are not married.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Peter_ITA
She doesn't seem to progress toward anything.
She is ambivalent as always. I risk to wait for her my entire life.

Peter, the reason she doesn't progress towards anything is because there is no goal here. If you set a goal, gave her conditions for return, then you would have something to reach for. If she won't do those things, then you should just divorce her because this is hopeless.

What you should demand is this:

1. She leaves her job and ends all contact for life with the OM

2. She finds a job where she won't be working wild hours and won't be tempted to have an affair

3. She gives you complete access to all of her phones, email accounts, computers,etc. she should lead a completely transparent lifestyle

4. Restore the romantic love to your marriage by following the MB program

If she won't do these things, this is hopeless and you should just get divorced. Because this is what it will take to recover your marriage. Just reconciling without a plan will be a plan to fail.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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We know lots of people date when separated from their spouses but that is not the marriagebuilders way.

Here, you feel the lone-ness and loneliness of being separated to ultimately build your own soul into a stronger, more amazing thing.

While a wayward does not cooperate to rebuild the marriage, you rebuild yourself without romantic entanglements with any other person.

You do that until you don't need another person to be a full person. Until you can be more selective about future mates and/or you reconcile with your wayward spouse IF they ever step up to the plate and show you by actions that they mean business to rebuild.

(by the way......everyone is sexual and loves romance so you are not unique in that regard)

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This is not a pick and choose program. You're either all in or you're out.

Follow the guidelines or your marriage will whither away.

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Ok I agree my dating was a mistake.


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Peter
I am confident you have not followed the program accurately if at all and here are some simple check lists,

Exposure wise

Who did you expose to and how?
Did you expose to their employer?
Did you expose to the OM friends and family and colleagues?

PLan A wise

You can't plan A well if you have moved out
Men should plan A for 6 months yet you are 6 months from discovery and have mentioned trying plan B etc.
What type of things did you do in plan A?
Do you know what your wife's top emotional needs are and how did you try to meet those?

Plan B wise

Did you give your wife a plan B letter?
Did you have an intermediary in place?
Did you go total radio silence on her meaning did not talk to her or see her and had ZERO contact?
Did you give her a list of requirements she had to do before you considered talking or reconciling?
What were those requirements?
You are clearly talking to her now so plan B if there ever was one is over. You should not talk or see your WW until she complies with your requirements for reconciliation including after divorcing. Plan B is for LIFE.

So you see you really have not followed any plan and it is very obvious that right now there is no hope for your marriage. The way to brake your wife's addiction is not to go out and find yourself a drug as well, do you see how that sounds really silly when you put it in real comparison terms?



BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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Thank you Pepperband, MelodyLane, reading, Justthe3ofus and NB28. Some replies:

Exposure wise

Who did you expose to and how? Both of our families and friends.
Did you expose to their employer? No
Did you expose to the OM friends and family and colleagues? No

PLan A wise

You can't plan A well if you have moved out. The couple therapist suggested that I moved out of the house, due to my dangerous anger bursts.
Men should plan A for 6 months yet you are 6 months from discovery and have mentioned trying plan B etc.
What type of things did you do in plan A?
I tried a plan A from July to September. She really needed affection, and I started meet it again. Plus I offered my forgiveness I acted really calm and comprehensive from the beginning and for the first 40 days after the DDay. But when I discovered she continued cheating, well, I changed, uncontrollably. I needed to separate physically from her.

Do you know what your wife's top emotional needs are and how did you try to meet those? I always provided a lot of emotional needs, and always asked about her feelings and needs. At a point I know started blocking affection, which I restored in my try of a Plan A.
She'd also need validation about her intellect, but it was really hard spending so little time together, in every project we shared her effort was so small the results were not so outstanding. And this leads me to express some Disrespectful Judgments.

Plan B wise

Did you give your wife a plan B letter? yes
Did you have an intermediary in place? I hadn't the gut use intermediary for discussing about my children. The policy started as a text only, and only about the children. After a while also phone was condoned.
Did you go total radio silence on her meaning did not talk to her or see her and had ZERO contact? I was able to do for only two months.
Did you give her a list of requirements she had to do before you considered talking or reconciling? The initial requirement was too mild: let's talk about a life style that could be make the both of us happy.
What were those requirements? I realized the real requirement yesterday: change your job/career. No more nights out. This is a real pity because she earned a good job position that very few women have in Italy, and I was really proud of her. But this position required a lot of nights out. And really too much overtime. I had similar position for myself, years before, I had temptations, but I was able to change my conduit in a natural way in order to avoid pitfalls. All that occurred naturally, without affairs or without her jealousy. She started working only few years ago, and when I saw her a little distracted she reminded of myself. I was sure she would understand by herself what a silly game could be flirting at work. Big mistake :-) I really trusted. I think she the only person I completely trusted in my whole life.
I tell you one thing: I can't image myself checking the phone calls, or email of anyone. Let alone my spouse. This one of the many marriagebuilder dogmas that I can't accept easily. Maybe the whole concept of limiting the freedom of another person looks insane to my point of view.

You are clearly talking to her now so plan B if there ever was one is over. You should not talk or see your WW until she complies with your requirements for reconciliation including after divorcing. Plan B is for LIFE.
I can agree. I think I will talk to her again in these days and than I'll try to come to back to not talk to her. But from my point of view with so young children involved this is crazy.

So you see you really have not followed any plan and it is very obvious that right now there is no hope for your marriage.
Please take into account my anger bursts.
The way to brake your wife's addiction is not to go out and find yourself a drug as well, do you see how that sounds really silly when you put it in real comparison terms?
I agree. But when I started dating I was 100% sure she was happy with the other man, I was just trying to asses my strenght. Anyway I agree.

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Peter,

I know you have tried to make things better but consider that many people here HAVE followed the plan to the letter and have successfully recovered their marriages or had a personal recovery. There are a lot of BH on here right now and many of them are fighting the good fight and most of them are getting the results.

I am a BW and have been recovered for 2 years even though the A happened 5 years ago, I spent 3 LONG years doing a tailored plan and it didn't work. This plan is accross the board no exceptions or alterations. The road to recovery is a narrow one any deviations will lead to failure, frustration and disappointment.

Get yourself in the right mind frame, fight for your family or quit, you can't be somewhere in the middle because that does not work.

First step is to EXPOSE the hell out of this A. Especially work managment, the OM friends and family and colleagues. Do it without giving her the heads up and using the templates on here. There is no reason that you have not done this already. Is the OM married? Does he have kids?? If yes to either of those immediately expose him to his BS or girlfriend.

Second protect your children, contact a lawyer and see what you can do about ensuring that the OM is NEVER around your children,

Get yourself the help you need including anger managment course and antidepressants if needed.

You have no where near plan A ed enough. You need to plan A for longer before you go into plan B. the better you plan A the more effective plan B.

Please remember that your WW thinks she is happy with the OM but she is far from it, the reality is that a man who makes a move on a married woman does not respect her and sees her as easy, he will loose respect for her (especially as he's Italian as well) and eventually this fantasy bubble will burst leaving nothing but pain and misery and a broken family in its path.

Are you ready to do this?


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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I need to add some details.
She says she not in love anymore with the other man, but they will travel together one week (starting tuesday) and another week in June.
My heart and my mind seem to explode: how on earth she could say she is interested in a reconciliation and avoid to take into account the suffering I have from their travels together.
Is she so dumb? Or so insensitive? Are those Disrespectful Judgments?

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reposting.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Peter_ITA
She doesn't seem to progress toward anything.
She is ambivalent as always. I risk to wait for her my entire life.

Peter, the reason she doesn't progress towards anything is because there is no goal here. If you set a goal, gave her conditions for return, then you would have something to reach for. If she won't do those things, then you should just divorce her because this is hopeless.

What you should demand is this:

1. She leaves her job and ends all contact for life with the OM

2. She finds a job where she won't be working wild hours and won't be tempted to have an affair

3. She gives you complete access to all of her phones, email accounts, computers,etc. she should lead a completely transparent lifestyle

4. Restore the romantic love to your marriage by following the MB program

If she won't do these things, this is hopeless and you should just get divorced. Because this is what it will take to recover your marriage. Just reconciling without a plan will be a plan to fail.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Ok,
I really have to thank you.
You are helping a lot.
A question about exposure: she said the relation is over.
It might be. I don't have evidence of the contrary.
NOW I think I should expose the affair more, following the DDay.
But should I complete the exposure within the working environment now?
For the MelodyLane repost: I 100% agree.
Quote
If she won't do these things, this is hopeless and you should just get divorced.

How long do you think I should wait for an answer before getting divorced?

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Originally Posted by Peter_ITA
How long do you think I should wait for an answer before getting divorced?

I would wait about 10 minutes. And I would expose the affair at work. It is still active.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I would wait about 10 minutes. And I would expose the affair at work. It is still active.

Exposing the affair at work BEFORE their trip is absolutely vital. Let the entire work environment know that WW and OM are going off on their little jaunt to do the "horizontal cha-cha" on the company dime (lira? euro?).

If they can withstand that heat, and go anyway, she should come back and walk into a "notice of intent to divorce" subpoena, or whatever the equivalent is in Italy!

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The more I think about it and the more I feel I should did strictly what MarriageBuilders recommended. I'm sorry being late...

The biggest mistake was trusting in her effort the first days after the DDay. After my trust was offended again I became a lose cannon. I shouldn't have trust her, and I should remain in control of myself.



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Originally Posted by Peter_ITA
I need to add some details.
She says she not in love anymore with the other man, but they will travel together one week (starting tuesday) and another week in June.
My heart and my mind seem to explode: how on earth she could say she is interested in a reconciliation and avoid to take into account the suffering I have from their travels together.
Is she so dumb? Or so insensitive? Are those Disrespectful Judgments?
So they went on this travel together and you think the affair is over?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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My suggestion after seeing your recent post is to just get divorced. If you won't even expose the affair, there is nothing we can do to help you. Your goal is to avoid any potential lawsuit at any and all costs, our goal is to save your marriage.

This was a long shot at best, and I would now call it hopeless because you are allowing a lazy lawyer [who only wants to facilitate an easy divorce] to call the shots. Nothing we can do for you, friend.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Affair exposed to family, friends and at work.

I think in few minutes I'm going to receive a crazy call from my wife. Should I tell her all the recipients list of my messages (more than 40, though email and facebook).


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Originally Posted by Peter_ITA
Should I tell her all the recipients list of my messages (more than 40, though email and facebook).

No.


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Originally Posted by Peter_ITA
Affair exposed to family, friends and at work.

I think in few minutes I'm going to receive a crazy call from my wife. Should I tell her all the recipients list of my messages (more than 40, though email and facebook).

Her affair was NOT exposed at work. That would have been one of your most potent exposures, but since you refuse to do that, I give this little hope. When your top goal is to appease a lawyer rather than save your marriage, you are unlikely to make it. Marriages are not saved when the BS operates out of fear.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Peter_ITA
Affair exposed to family, friends and at work.

Originally Posted by Peter_ITA posted on 5-3-2013
I started exposing to family and friends.
With a lot of funny surprises.
I call have a call the the last OM fianc�.

My lawyer advised to not expose in the workplace.
But I just found and forwarded a 3rd grade judgment suggesting otherwise. If he doesn't agree I'll ask the opinion of other lawyers.
here

So now you say you DID expose at work? Which is it?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Seriously, if lawyers are going to guide your recovery attempt, then we can't help you. They have no idea how to save a marriage, they only know how to get you divorced. If all of our suggestions are going to be screened by a lazy, disinterested lawyer, then you are wasting valuable board members time.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I fully exposed an hour ago,
and i'm receiving the first calls from friends and collegues who really care. I feel better.

Last edited by Peter_ITA; 05/03/13 10:52 AM.
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Originally Posted by Peter_ITA
I exposed an hour ago,
and i'm receiving the first calls from friends and colleguee who really care.

So you exposed to Human Resources at her workplace?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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and their head of department

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I exposed at her workplace friday morning.
Saturday I received a support message from her boss: he praised my strength, he wrote he'll do what's right to stop the relation with the other man: reassignment at minimum.
I know they had a meeting today.

Exposure IS THE RIGHT MOVE.

She's also getting phone calls from dozen of people near to us.
I'm happily surprised. She's mad, now. But no problem.

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Good job!! hurray


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Peter_ITA
I exposed at her workplace friday morning.
Saturday I received a support message from her boss: he praised my strength, he wrote he'll do what's right to stop the relation with the other man: reassignment at minimum.
I know they had a meeting today.

Exposure IS THE RIGHT MOVE.

She's also getting phone calls from dozen of people near to us.
I'm happily surprised. She's mad, now. But no problem.
Good job!!

Remember you can survive her anger, but your marriage wouldn't survive her affair.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Today (the day after the exposure) she's contacting me way more than the last weeks. Also for some casual topics (?!?)
She asked me why I could still want her, and I replied extensively.

I also said that I'm hurt and I can't heal living the trauma over and over, so I mentioned again my need for some extreme precautions.

I dunno how to proceed. I don't want to withdraw love units.
I'm in sort of late plan A?

I know for sure I cannot leave my heart so open forever, the next month she should have another 5 days seminar.
I feel dying imaging she'll flies away. I think this is line.
If she go the next congress, I'd need to implement a plan B for my survival.

We still share the internet calendar for helping each other with our children activities. I just saw the next month seminar is not in her calendar anymore.

Dear friends, I think I won so many battles in my life, but hope wasn't never in the field. Furthering hope make me feels so weak :-) this is so strange :-)

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Peter it's difficult to follow. Has she said she wants to reconcile? Are you planning to move home? Where exactly do things stand at the moment?


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Quote
Today (the day after the exposure) she's contacting me way more than the last weeks.
Peter, I'm confused. You said you exposed 4 days ago?

How did you expose to her employer? Did you write a letter? Meet with the head employers? Have they confirmed with you that OM has been transferred?


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Please forgive me :-)
I exposed Friday (4 days ago)
But my wife became fully aware of the exposure only yesterday (Monday).
A LOT of our friends are calling her.
Exposure is very counter intuitive (I suspect even more here in Italy).
I generated a tsunami of responses, with a wide array of receptions.
I received a lot of supportive calls from some of best people I contacted.
Each one is also calling my wife.
The supportive calls I'm receiving are so relieving for me :-)

I spoke with my wife only briefly in the late afternoon.
But our talk seemed authentic and joyful for the first time in months.
She's also stunned by the huge number of calls from person we both respect a lot, even if out of contact since years.
She said her phone is always ringing, and that I'm a crazy loose cannon.
I know she had a meeting about the affair with her boss yesterday.
I don't know the results. I know they are going to meet again.
But from my wife Internet calendar I see that her schedule is changing.
It seems she's already not involved in the workgroup with the other man.
They are both physicians in different department in one of the biggest hospital in the region.



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I was the original BS. DDay July 2012.
I failed to implement correctly a plan A, and I had to move out of our house, pretty sure our marriage was lost forever. After six months, in these days it seems there could be a possibility to reconcile.
full story here here.

My wife this morning enlisted our 7yo daughter to the local summer camp, and we discovered my daughter only teacher would be one of the women I dated when I moved out of my house and until few weeks ago.

My wife just gone crazy, screaming and crying on the phone.
Other summer camps seems not feasible, and our daughter will be very sad not attending this camp which she loved attending last year. With her friends, and the same teacher.

I feel so miserable.
It never happened that the summer camp teacher was the same the following year.

I know our options. I just had to tell you.
bye bye


Peter

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If you want to reconcile you need to follow the plan in Surviving an Affair.

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Originally Posted by Peter_ITA
I was the original BS. DDay July 2012.
I failed to implement correctly a plan A, and I had to move out of our house, pretty sure our marriage was lost forever. After six months, in these days it seems there could be a possibility to reconcile.
full story here here.

My wife this morning enlisted our 7yo daughter to the local summer camp, and we discovered my daughter only teacher would be one of the women I dated when I moved out of my house and until few weeks ago.

My wife just gone crazy, screaming and crying on the phone.
Other summer camps seems not feasible, and our daughter will be very sad not attending this camp which she loved attending last year. With her friends, and the same teacher.

I feel so miserable.
It never happened that the summer camp teacher was the same the following year.

I know our options. I just had to tell you.
bye bye


Peter
Now you see how much damage happens from "dating while separated".

What are you going to do?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Hello dears,
I'm here again after 6 months.

My story short: I was the betrayed spouse. 2 children. She was "in love" with a colleague. A lot of pain. I exposed. A lot of pain and therapy. Plan B letter, and plan B implemented.

(long here: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2724746&page=1)

I started feeling better, and last week I filled the separation.
Since then SHE started to be the one who'd like to reconcile. But she didn't and she still don't accept the idea of Extreme Precautions / Total Separation, and she is still working in the same hospital with the Other Man. In general I feel her not interested in my emotional need. She never was, but I wasn't aware of it.
I think that a few months ago she would open some faith on me with the kind of talking she's doing now. But today I feel her distant, I don't trust her anymore, I fell her like a kind of trap. I'm sad, I'm afraid, but the idea to go back to her is even more sad and fearful. And in these days I'm not suffering anymore so much and I feel I can't risk to suffer so much again.

Bye bye

Peter_ITA #2766036 11/14/13 08:51 PM
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Are you using an IM? How do you know that "she wants to reconcile"? If she will not implement EPs and leave her job then you're correct she doesn't want to protect you and your M.

Did you expose at her job?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Update posted 11/14:

Originally Posted by Peter_ITA
Hello dears,
I'm here again after 6 months.

My story short: I was the betrayed spouse. 2 children. She was "in love" with a colleague. A lot of pain. I exposed. A lot of pain and therapy. Plan B letter, and plan B implemented.

(long here: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2724746&page=1)

I started feeling better, and last week I filled the separation.
Since then SHE started to be the one who'd like to reconcile. But she didn't and she still don't accept the idea of Extreme Precautions / Total Separation, and she is still working in the same hospital with the Other Man. In general I feel her not interested in my emotional need. She never was, but I wasn't aware of it.
I think that a few months ago she would open some faith on me with the kind of talking she's doing now. But today I feel her distant, I don't trust her anymore, I fell her like a kind of trap. I'm sad, I'm afraid, but the idea to go back to her is even more sad and fearful. And in these days I'm not suffering anymore so much and I feel I can't risk to suffer so much again.

Bye bye

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Peter you cannot reconcile unless she agrees to never see or speak to the man again.
The recovery plan in Surviving An Affair must be followed for any reconciling but the affair and all contact must end first.

It sounds like she is upset that she is facing consequences for her adulterous actions.

Arr you taking care of yourself and your kids?

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> Are you taking care of yourself and your kids?

Yes.

> She is upset that she is facing consequences for her adulterous actions.

Precisely.



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Hello community,
maybe you could help me on this.

I'm the BH (Betrayed Husband)
The WW (Wayward Wife) accepted only part of the EP ( Extraordinary Precautions )
She tells she want to recovery our marriage, but
she doesn't agree to change the workplace (hospital) where infidelity happened, and where the OM still works.
After 2 years since I left home, I'm quite sure I can live without a spouse who doesn't show a full commitment. Knowing her at nigh-shifts or at conventions still hurts me, but I manage it by not thinking of her like a spouse.
On my side I try avoiding love busters
Being demanding is not my character, and I feel bad being me the one who has to suggest EPs, and I also feel a little in contradiction demanding EPs and try avoiding love busters.

Please help me to solve this.

Best Regards.

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I would give her this check list of extraordinary precautions and see if she will agree. If she does, you have a chance at recovery. If she won't, then you don't have any chance of recovery and would be facing more affairs in the future. It is not a "selfish demand" to ask your wife to take the necessary steps to protect you from another affair.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Threads merged. Please stick to one thread in future.

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who do the kids live with?

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You stated you went into Plan B.

Did you follow the Plan B instructions from the posters here?

Did you send her a Plan B Letter, ddscribing Precisely what it would take to attempt reconciling the marriage?

How are hearing these tid-bits from her if you are in Plan B?

I suggest IF you are the least bit interested in reconciling, that you caringly inform her that you want both of you to feel loved and protected in marriage and the list of EP's are there to protect both of you and the marriage.

They are either accepted, or it's not worth going through a False Recovery.

LTL

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I understand and I agree. Thank you everybody.
About the plan B no contact rules: I found it too akward for the children, their daily lives, and their trasitions in between the two houses.
The amount of information we need to share trying to be good enough working part-time single parents in huge.
We speak more and better about the kids now than we were living togheter.

To JediKnight.
The kids stays with me 10-12 days per month.
All the other days with my WW.
In the past two year she evolved from an estranged mother to a good mother.
I'm really happy for the kids :-) :-)

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hospitals in the Rome region
https://www.google.it/maps/search/ospedale+roma/@41.9100711,12.5359979,11z/data=!3m1!4b1

hospitals in the Milano region
https://www.google.it/maps/search/ospedale+milano/@45.4237112,9.1385935,10z

hospitals in the Napoli region
https://www.google.it/maps/search/ospedale+napoli/@40.8539343,14.2466023,12z/data=!3m1!4b1

I googled some, and it seems you and your wife are the only people who are not able to find another hospital in Italy where your wife who is having her lovely little encounterw with OM could work.

To me it is utterly incomprehensible how you, as a supposedly hot-blooded Italian men can stand there and see your wife being sexually abused by another men, without even directly confronting him and threatening him with bodily harm and the like.

You have handed her over to him on a silver plate! She is the woman who is your legal wife and having sex with her is illegal. In other countries she and her affair partner would be stoned as a consequence. Even if she did want to stop the affair, which is quite possible that she does once in a while, this predator is going to be drawing her in with sweet talk. He is for heavan's sake romancing and banging your wife on the job. And you are making this easier for her under the pretense of doing it for the children???

I can tell you that if my lovely husband would ever have the nerve to have an affair, I can assure you that I would make his and her life living hell. In the end they would wish they would have never laid eyes on each other.

It is delusional to think you are doing the best for the children by having them in limbo all the time and staying in another home for 12 days of the month. That is at the childrens expense and just to comfort the parents. If you and especially your wife really loved your children they would have one home and two loving parents. You could rather change homes yourselves.

If your wife will not do the extraordinary precautions to end her sexual relationship with another man, your relationship will end in divorce. This is utterly confusing for the children. At least tell them the truth. Talk about awkward.

Last edited by happyheart; 11/02/14 08:42 AM.

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