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How's it going L2L?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Awe, thanks for reaching back and thinking of my situation BH.

I restored my contractors license and placed several ads to obtain leads, such as in the newspaper service directory, a coupon discount book, and hired a telemarketing company to call 10,000 names of property owners. I just signed
my 1st complete job 3 days ago, along with doing a small repair job 2 weeks ago.

In the past month, i have taken our S-10 on a camp out with his fellow scout pack, gone to an old friends BBQ party, enjoyed his 1st time going to Six Flags Great America, and spent a day at the nearby Renaissance Faire.

He also started 5th Grade and we had our 1st Parent-Teacher Conference Wednesday evening. He enjoys reading, karate, scouting activities and playing Minecraft on the computers at the library.

He has, in my opinion, a minor Separation Anxiety issue and ever since our Marital Issue began on D-Day, September 27th, 2009, he runs out to find me, even if i am only in the garage getting something out of the freezer. The other evening, when i went into the Walgreens while he was playing his Minecraft game on his tablet, he came into the store instead of waiting in the vehicle and accidentally dropped his tablet and shattered the glass touchpad screen and cried for 1/2 hour, because he plays it all the time when we drive someplace, plus it was a belated Christmas gift from his mother, which contained photos of her that she had loaded onto it for him. Sooo Sad.

I signed him up for band/orchestra class at school and he chose the violin to play, because it makes sweet melodies from some Harry Potter movie song he likes.

I attended a HUD approved Consumer Credit Counseling service for assistance in modifying my home mortgage, which i am 26 months behind on and in foreclosure. I have no tax forms filed for the past 4 years, so it is really important that i show a profit for the next 3-6 months to viably be eligible.

This upcoming Labor Day weekend, we will visit my parents lake home in Wisconsin and enjoy my Sister and 2 brothers familys and the my son can play with his cousins near his age.

I still think about my Wife with every half idle moment i have. I miss and love the woman she was so much and tried so hard, but because i didn't utilize any plan and just did Plan A version of Doormat for the duration, i lost my chance of her desiring to reconcile. But, that is 100% out of the picture since she continues in her alcohol relapse, yet my heart still wants to get her to see what she has done to her life and our family.

Today, it is 214 days since she had a true successful visit with our son, just 2 weeks prior to him turning 10 years old. It now has been 194 days since she last spoke with him during an aborted attempt at a visit, that she couldn't deal with, due to her upset anxieties from temporarily being split up with her current POSOM affair partner.

Yesterday, out of the blue, her youngest sister sent me a message via FB. She lived in our home for 2 years after my M-I-L passed away. She got married and had a child in March and wants to establish contact with my Son.

I'm hesitant, because she aided in concealing my W's 1st and 2nd affairs and let my W use her cell phone when i caught on. She was completely ungrateful to me for letting her live here for 2 years for free and added to the marital discord.

I'm still going to IC on a weekly basis for myself and attend 4-5 AA meetings per week.

I still wonder if there is anyway to disrupt her current affair. I still want her to see how she changed and confront how her own choices and relapse are responsible.

That's my hearts desire.

My logic part knows it is futile.

I miss my wife and our dreams and our intact loving family.

I also continue to read every new post on MB in 4 of the sub-forums and listen to the daily MB Radio once or twice per week.

Can some version of exposure break up a year plus long living together affair?
Would pointing out how she abandoned her son since relapsing nudge any support to shame her to seek recovery?

I don't think so.

Thanks for asking how we were doing though.

LTL



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We have many, many times on these boards how the affair can explode up to 4+ years later.

Have you ever asked SIL why would you want her to have contact with you and your DS10 when she helped your WW's affair? Maybe Plan B her.

I'm so glad you're sticking with your AlAnon meetings.

So you and your DS10 haven't heard from your WW in 194 days?

Are you in Plan B?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
We have many, many times on these boards how the affair can explode up to 4+ years later.

Have you ever asked SIL why would you want her to have contact with you and your DS10 when she helped your WW's affair? Maybe Plan B her.

I'm so glad you're sticking with your AlAnon meetings.

So you and your DS10 haven't heard from your WW in 194 days?

Are you in Plan B?

Correct on the 194 days since she has spoken to our son.

She did make 2 phone calls in March when we were on a mini-vacation to a tourist town with lots of indoor waterparks to enjoy during the end of winter.

The 1st call went to my voice mail and she was so giddy drunk that she mis-spoke both her name and mine be reversing them. I did not reply.

The 2nd one was in a pizzed off demeanor that also went to my voice mail, which i also did not respond to.

Then i ensured that Any calls from her go directly to voice mail.

I currently will only reply if she e-mails me.

She has not attempted to contact me via my e-mail since. No need to Plan B. It's already done by default.

LTL

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I reiterate from my previous post.

" Can some version of exposure break up a year plus long living together affair?

Would pointing out how she abandoned her son since relapsing nudge any support to shame her to seek recovery?"

Just bumping this part from yesterday.

LTL

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Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
I reiterate from my previous post.

" Can some version of exposure break up a year plus long living together affair?

Would pointing out how she abandoned her son since relapsing nudge any support to shame her to seek recovery?"

Just bumping this part from yesterday.

LTL

15 months ago, which was about 3 months after my Wife moved out with no notice, i made an appointment with our former MC, whom we had seen together for 6 months with weekly sessions at the beginning of 2010.

At the end of my venting and catching up on details session, the MC asked me, "What,Was My Agenda?" Why was i back seeking IC now?

I replied that i wanted to learn how my Wife and i could learn to communicate and become friendlier towards each other.

Whatever i have tried, she is so far in withdrawal, that even the nice gestures and comments i had made seemingly get dismissed or negatively interpreted.

How can that wall ever be breached?

By the way, me and my Son had a wonderful time visiting his Grandma and Grandpa at their lake home over Labor Day weekend and had fun taking boat rides, the young cousins going tubing and fishing from the pier.

My mind still thought of my Wife with every circumstance and how i miss her in our lives.

4 years ago, stuff she said on our drive home from there instigated our very 1st significant argument discussion, where she leveled me with how dissatisfied she felt in our marriage. It was 3 weeks later that i discovered her love letters with her 1st affair partner and my life has been filled with melancholy and sadness ever since, with finally a glimmer of more positive attitude and actions starting to evolve.

But, i still feel so empty inside, by that 1st argument revealing how much she felt let down by me. I wish i knew better when it would have made a difference.

BH stated that there are plenty of examples of marriages turning around after 4 years. So, what actions do i need to take still, even while she doesn't contact our own Son?

Do i just allow her self imposed No Contact linger till she feels the pain of missing our Son?

I do also fully realize that her current desire to still enjoy a bar-hopping lifestyle with new drinking buddies and the current live-in POSOM would need to be ended first and foremost.

What can i do to "Raise The Bottom" that she needs to hit?

LTL

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Last night while i was at the library with S-10 with him doing homework and playing online games and me typing a proposal for a contracting estimate, i noticed when we left at closing time that my WW had texted me several times and left a voice mail message. She had a new different phone number too.

Her last attempt to contact me was June 4th,, to my old dead e-mail address that i don't use anymore due to spam and i couldn't open it due to needing password reset, so i didn't even see that message till the end of July.

She contacted last night, panicking about maybe not meeting criteria to keep health insurance at her bus driving job due to Obamacare requirements.

Here is what she texted:

Texts Quote:
I need to talk to u asap tomorrow if possible in regards to medical coverage. With obama crap my insurance changing. Are u available to help me figure t his out tomorrow between 930 and 12.

I need to understand what I need to do to make sure u guys covered but what I'm reading makes look like its iffy. But that could b me not understanding fully

I'm doing mega hours this year to make sure we all covered but it going according to annual income that I don't think ill meet.

But I have to. Least the one thing I can do for u guys but I'm not understanding this crap

Please let me know if u have time to help me understand th right asap
End Text Quotes:

Now, i did not respond at all. We are still legally married, but she had current POSOM move in her apartment about 1 year ago and they temporarily split up supposedly in mid February, the weekend following Valentines Day. He never moved out and they obviously worked that out at that time.

She had filed for Divorce when she moved out February 15th, 2012, but i never got served so Divorce proceedings were Dismissed September, 2012.

Do i let her figure out her family health care coverage issues on her own or do i meet or talk with her?

Me and my S-10 are still covered under that policy.

Is this an opportunity to rekindle any form of friendly contact?

Her last message to me after i was keeping hers sister updated about our S-10 and visited my M-I-L's grave marker told me to, "F**k Off" back on July 4th of this year.

Today, it has been 219 Days since the last time she spoke with our Son and 241 Days since her last successful true visit with him.

Now, this reaching out for help for her to understand her insurance coverage.

Any advice is welcome.

As far as i know, she still goes out drinking on the weekends, so still is in relapse mode, and that is a deal breaker to even consider any R until that and other things occur.

LTL

Last edited by LearnedTooLate; 09/25/13 08:57 AM.
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If it didn't involve your's and son's health insurance, I would say ignore her. But, it would probably benefit you to make sure that your insurance is continued. And bonus points for being a helpful guy.

I'm not sure about this one.

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
If it didn't involve your's and son's health insurance, I would say ignore her. But, it would probably benefit you to make sure that your insurance is continued. And bonus points for being a helpful guy.

I'm not sure about this one.

Thank you for responding RQ.

I was considering replying that i know she can handle it on her own with assistance through her Human Resources Department and that things will work out if she does what i know she is capable of.

I wonder if i should add that i am not currently the one she has chosen to help her out in her family related decisions. (She fired me from that job and responsibility) I also consider adding in that meeting with her in person is too painful because of the choices she has made, but that's too much blame, so i won't unless others can suggest a more tactful way of stating that.

The mean resentful part that i won't say, but think, is that she should get that advice from one of her POSOM affair partners since she feels they are better than her own husband and father of our son. Aghhh!!!

I just don't want to react emotionally.

LTL

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Respond with this first
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
i know she can handle it on her own with assistance through her Human Resources Department and that things will work out if she does what i know she is capable of.


Then if she wants to meet in person, respond with this "meeting with her in person is too painful because of the choices you have made"

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It is your child's healthcare at stake.
It could mean the difference in your child receiving needed treatment when he needs it most. Don't risk having ww mess it up! For this, suck it up and make sure you and kids are properly ensured.
I'd kiss anybody's ......feet......rather than take a chane with my dd access to medical care.


Me 58: FWH (NC 32 yr), W 60, married 36 yr, DD 32
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Don't play games with healthcare. Deal with her for this issue, then back to her self-imposed Plan B if she isn't going to quit drinking.

How can she be an alcoholic bus driver BTW?


BH Me 34
WW 29
DS 7, DD 5
Multiple EAs 2006-2011
PA 1 OM1 2/2012; D-Day1 3/14/2012; NC 4/1/2012; broke NC 05/2012
PA 2 ONS OW1 7/11/12
PA 3 OM2 1/06/2013; D-Day2 1/14/2013
Divorcing 1/22 Plan A 1/23
Worthless attempt at Trickle Exposure
Multiple PAs OW2,3,&4 since 1/27/2013
WW moved out 3/5/2013
Temp Custody of DS and DD 3/21/13
WW moved back D-Day 3 9/1/13
NC/FR 9/3/13
WW moved out 9/17/13
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Originally Posted by mijunleigh
Don't play games with healthcare. Deal with her for this issue, then back to her self-imposed Plan B if she isn't going to quit drinking.

How can she be an alcoholic bus driver BTW?

She goes out after work for 3-4 hours on some work days and also on Friday and Saturday nights, plus in the past when i used to drive by her local pub of choice, i have seen her vehicle in the parking lot around noon.

Alcoholism isn't as much about how often you drink, or if you have to drink during work hours, but how it impacts your life and your thinking once the cycle begins, especially for someone who relapses after about 10 years in AA with complete sobriety.

I still attend multiple meetings every week even after 19 1/2 years since i became sober.

LTL

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As someone who has never known anyone who went to AA, I guess the point is to keep going so you don't relapse?


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Originally Posted by karmasrose
As someone who has never known anyone who went to AA, I guess the point is to keep going so you don't relapse?

That would be a primary reason, plus you have the blessing and frequent opportunities to pass on your own experiences, strength and hope to those that haven't ever been able to feel so understood before. I learn more and build up my desire for clean living by helping others, both through my good times and not so good times by sharing with others on how to live life on lifes terms.

Plus, you make good similar minded friends and look forward to seeing them weekly, or at sponsored events.

LTL

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Friday, 9-27 was the 4th anniversary of D-Day, when i discovered her love notes with her 1st POSOM.

I was getting coffee at a gas station with my back to the door and when i got done with it, i noticed my W walking away from the cash register. I know she had to recognize me, but she completely ignored that i was there. That gas station is not close to where either of us live.

That's the 1st time I've seen her since February 18th of this year.

I was too chicken to follow her outside to make contact since i am impossible to not recognize, even from the back. I figured it would be very uncomfortable, but i regret not talking to her, even, or especially if her current POSOM was outside in her vehicle.

I will never understand the extreme hatred she has towards me for trying to continue Plan A style stuff when she was still here. I really was very nice and supportive, but now see that i was only a doormat.

LTL

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Well, i responded on Monday, which was 5 1/2 days after her initial contact. I didn't want to ignore her request, yet didn't feel that an immediate reply, like jumping just because she snapped her fingers, plus she sent another text the previous evening, which to me, was starting to sound ticked off and i don't want negative emotions to escalate.

Here is her texts from Sunday night:
1) I need to talk to u now

2) please

3) U will be seeing me soon. U can't keep ignoring me.

.

The 1st 2 tugged at my heartstrings, so i am obviously not detached enough..... Sigh!!!

Here is my reply:

Wife's Name,

I could meet you either on Wednesday or Friday. Have you discussed the health insurance options with your Human Resources Department yet? You should give yourself more credit than you ever did. You will know how to figure it out, but i will help you out the best that i can.

I hesitated to reply sooner, because i am extremely concerned about how you have reacted towards me, like the most recent example when you sent me that message on May 4th that told me to F**k Off, after i sent your sister a very nice update about me taking S-10's Name to visit his Grandmothers memorial site before noon that day and teaching him about the nice things she used to want to do for him and Praying for her.

It continues to hurt to feel so hated by the one person that i thought would always be my best friend and partner for life.

You have not been the same loving and kind wife or mother ever since you relapsed and it continues to tear me apart to feel so hated by someone i loved so much, because i tried to correct my errors on my side and hold our family together.

I still Pray for you everyday, hoping that you someday see what your drinking lifestyle has done and that you realize how much you were loved and cared for. You previously had more than you could have ever asked, dreamed or Prayed for, but that wasn't enough once you relapsed. There is a path out of this destructive behavior. I hope you see that and feel i would still be there for you to help and be supportive if you choose to get sober ever again.

But, while you continue to not care about your own husband and son, i don't want to be the subject of your hateful comments any longer.

My Name

.

On another off track side note, our S-10 passed his test for Green Belt in his karate class on Saturday afternoon.

LTL

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Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Well, i responded on Monday, which was 5 1/2 days after her initial contact. I didn't want to ignore her request, yet didn't feel that an immediate reply, like jumping just because she snapped her fingers, plus she sent another text the previous evening, which to me, was starting to sound ticked off and i don't want negative emotions to escalate.

Here is her texts from Sunday night:
1) I need to talk to u now

2) please

3) U will be seeing me soon. U can't keep ignoring me.

.

The 1st 2 tugged at my heartstrings, so i am obviously not detached enough..... Sigh!!!

Here is my reply:

Wife's Name,

I could meet you either on Wednesday or Friday. Have you discussed the health insurance options with your Human Resources Department yet? You should give yourself more credit than you ever did. You will know how to figure it out, but i will help you out the best that i can.

I hesitated to reply sooner, because i am extremely concerned about how you have reacted towards me, like the most recent example when you sent me that message on May 4th that told me to F**k Off, after i sent your sister a very nice update about me taking S-10's Name to visit his Grandmothers memorial site before noon that day and teaching him about the nice things she used to want to do for him and Praying for her.

It continues to hurt to feel so hated by the one person that i thought would always be my best friend and partner for life.

You have not been the same loving and kind wife or mother ever since you relapsed and it continues to tear me apart to feel so hated by someone i loved so much, because i tried to correct my errors on my side and hold our family together.

I still Pray for you everyday, hoping that you someday see what your drinking lifestyle has done and that you realize how much you were loved and cared for. You previously had more than you could have ever asked, dreamed or Prayed for, but that wasn't enough once you relapsed. There is a path out of this destructive behavior. I hope you see that and feel i would still be there for you to help and be supportive if you choose to get sober ever again.

But, while you continue to not care about your own husband and son, i don't want to be the subject of your hateful comments any longer.

My Name

.

On another off track side note, our S-10 passed his test for Green Belt in his karate class on Saturday afternoon.

LTL

Sounds a bit preachy.

What you said is well deserved, but not likely to draw her closer or promote an eventual recovery. She expects to be shamed when she sees you. You did not disappoint.

LTL, you are putting the "survive" in SAA. I admire you. Your son is very fortunate to have such a steadfast and caring Dad!


Me 58: FWH (NC 32 yr), W 60, married 36 yr, DD 32
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There a lot of DJs in that letter and it's too long. You need to be short and sweet.
1st & 3rd paragraph is unnecessary and full of lovebusters. She knows what she said she said it! She knows she doing wrong and doesn't need your help pointing it out.


Wife's Name,

I could meet you either on Wednesday or Friday. Have you discussed the health insurance options with your Human Resources Department yet? You should give yourself more credit than you ever did. You will know how to figure it out, but i will help you out the best that i can.

It continues to hurt to feel so hated by the one person that i thought would always be my best friend and partner for life. S10 got his green belt and I am so proud of him. Maybe sometime if your free we can meet for coffee or lunch and discuss this she of insurance. Take care.

I tried to edit your letter but not good with the options on the forums. In short you want to create opportunities to deposit love units and show her your changes not by saying it but demonstrating them. Have you read lovebusters?

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Thank you, ICGB and TD.

Yeah, i feel the DJ's in my written words that you pointed out and see it being preachy too.

I felt, even though i should have chosen better words to express myself, that the last paragragh was necessary to place a boundary. I need to make sure she knows i will no longer be her punching bag.

Another point that sounded confusing the way i wrote it, was about Being There For Her. My intent was specifically meant for the possibility that she ever wants to try going back to AA and getting sober again.

They say a person has to Hit Their Bottom to feel enough desire to want to try to get sober, so i was trying to Raise The Level Of Her Bottom.

I feel that most of my other interactions with her were amicable and supportive. That hasn't worked, so i am not rolling over any longer. I don't think i would have put up with this treatment when we first dated. I feel i lost my assertive portion of my personality and became her doormat.

Regardless, i will walk away from her hateful diatribes from now on.

Also, my core beliefs about alcoholism does not allow for me to just stand by without pointing out the changes from when she was a sober mom and wife.

Even though i stick my neck out, probably being the only one she hears from about the ramifications of what her drinking has done to her life, someday IF she ever chooses to get sober, she may see that i wasn't one of the cheerleaders promoting her drinking lifestyle.

My grey line is, when is The Truth a DJ?

Well, she has not replied back now, and based on Text # 3, i wonder what she was implying about, I Will C U Soon.....

LTL

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