I wouldn't worry about being disrespectful.
The fact is she's a drunk and based on your info, an unfit parent.

Children of alcoholics are messed up FOR LIFE.
I know I was married to one

Whoa!



If we stipulate that DJ are OK when we think our souse deserves them, civility in marriage is lost. Suppose this M is unrecoverable, what skills should LTL be refining to have great MB relationships in the future?

Civility is easy when we are feeling the love. The challenge is to stop LB when we are feeling righteous and our spouse is LB us.

Please assist me in learning how to not have DJ's when i interact with my W in the future.

I think the Alcoholic Fog is similar to the Affair Fog.

She has become an Alien in both aspects. This lifestyle goes SO contradictory to her stated and written beliefs from before she relapsed and started cheating.

Do i do an exposure to her contacts that might have any influence about her parenting since she began drinking?

Do i just ignore the changes and never point out what a good mom she was prior to relapsing?

Do i just continue the Going Dark and not go out of my way to keep her updated on our S-10?

Currently, i am just trying to hold my life, finances, and sons life together with joy and love. I rarely feel any joy, but i am glad my Son does, so that brings me it's own reward.

LTL

First step buy Lovebusters by Dr. Harley and read it.

Thanks TD. I did order Lovebusters and will look forward to reading it and learning from it.

LTL

So, is there a method to redirect the Serial Cheaters moral compass?

With my W, i still firmly believe that we truly had a loving relationship in both our hearts for the 1st 7-8 years.

Then, due to pizz-poor boundaries during a time of severe emotional strife and depression created during the 2 1/2 month hospitalization and seeming recovery and then sudden unexpected death of her Mom, that she allowed all of her EN's to be met by the 1st OM, and also shot down any attempts i made at meeting here EN's, that she rewrote our marital history to totally find me unacceptable to reconsider.

Her current OM moved in with her around 1 year ago. She "seems" to be as infatuated with him as she ever was with me previously, which also could be said about the previous 2 OM, but those never evolved into living together and fizzled out naturally.

Also, her cheating coincided with when she relapsed to alcohol after about 8 years of steady sobriety. She has abandoned, for all purposes, our beautiful young son now, since his 9th birthday through him now being several months shy of his 11th birthday.

She had already moved out to carry on with OM2 prior to hooking up with this current OM3. There was also an OW one night drunken ONS that occurred after D-day1 just prior to beginning with OM2, who also had been OW's long term on again, off again BF for the previous 15 years.

Serial cheater, or multiple monogamous affairs? She truly was a good Wife and Mom prior to the relapse and affairs starting.

Can her moral compass be rediscovered with any help, such as a multi-affair exposure this late in the game?

LTL

On the serial cheaters thread in one of the clips (I can't remember which one off hand) Dr. Harley says that serial cheaters can be faithful, but they must follow extra extraordinary precautions.

Sometimes changing careers and/or being with the spouse 24 hours a day.

Did you listen to all the clips?

Remember, she moved out 20 months ago and is living with OM3 currently, so the spending all of our time together is not going to currently happen.

Marital Bliss earlier commented on many couples reconciling after 4 year long affairs earlier in this thread.

I am considering a widespread exposure to cover the previous affairs to be sent to this current OM's connections.

Would that potentially pull the rug out and reveal their relationship is only as fragile as the previous affairs?

Also, as a direct result of her current relationship, alongside with her drinking relapse, she has barely had any contact with our son.

I am thinking that exposing that reality might "Raise The Bottom" that she needs to hit to consider becoming sober again.

I am wondering about getting a GPS to find out who his lawn cutting customers are and thinking to hit them as contacts as well. His sister and b-i-l own the lawn cutting and snow plowing business and may not appreciate their customers finding out that lawn boy is involved in wrecking a family and influential in my sons mother not being involved with him at all.

No, i have not listened to the radio links. I will try to listen to them over this weekend though. There were a lot of them in that Serial Cheater thread.

I promise that i will do it though.

LTL

Hi LTL,

I posted to you in the serial cheating thread so will repost here:

I wouldn't bother. It sounds like your WW isn't willing to help herself and is perfectly fine living this way. Maybe it is sexist, but as a woman and a mother...for a mother to abandon her children..she has to be a pretty messed up person IMO. Then you also have the issue of alcohol. I would walk away.

That she isn't around your son, is a blessing at this point. Why would you want your boy around her given the circumstances?

Originally Posted By: black_raven Hi LTL,

I wouldn't bother. It sounds like your WW isn't willing to help herself and is perfectly fine living this way. Maybe it is sexist, but as a woman and a mother...for a mother to abandon her children..she has to be a pretty messed up person IMO. Then you also have the issue of alcohol. I would walk away.

Thank you BR.

That does seem to be the prevalent consensus.....

Yet, i still have my heart invested totally in my family, which used to include a beautiful soul as my Wife.

I didn't know about exposure early on.

I tried to let go. I still love the person she was when we married each other.

I want to be there for her to have someone to reach out to if she can be snapped back into her former reality.

I am probably being unrealistic. But, if there remains even one stone unturned that i haven't done to do all i could have done, even if it does not achieve the desired goal, then i would not have done all i could have done.

I am continuing being a great single parent and have slightly restored my business and might get out of foreclosure, so i am doing the positive steps for my life. I want her to see those improvements if she ever accepts that she has an alcohol problem, which we say in AA, is a "Thinking Disease", not just a drinking disease.

I need to remain patient, but can i raise the bottom she needs to hit?

I don't want her around our S-10 under the current circumstances.

That's primarily why i have continued to let The Sleeping Dog scenario play out as it has so far. Holiday seasons are upon us and i feel she will want that to change for her to get her Mommy Fix.

I would like to intervene before that occurs.


LTL

Stop moving!!! LOL


Not really. If you want to expose her affairs, that's fine (I still would and file for D) but don't count on that leading to reconciliation. I also hope you do not waste years of your life holding onto hope...that's what I read in your words.

Sorry, but I don't think your WW is coming back. But if she did, would you really want to reconcile after she has gone through X other men? I understand you miss the life you had with her (and her) but don't let loneliness and hope keep you in limbo hell. Really think about what you will have to eat and ACCEPT to take her back...and if you can REALLY live with it...not to mention all the extra, extra EPs you would have to deal with.

MB is not about marriage at all costs. Prayers to you.

Hi again Black Raven,

I just wanted to follow up regarding the promise i made to listen to all of the MB Radio links in the Serial Cheater thread.

I just now completed that.

Next, i am off to take my S-10 to a Halloween Costume Party at his karate training facility. It's put on each month and technically called, Parents Night Out, which triggers me about not having my W to share the evening with, but this is the 1st time I'm taking my Son to it and he is looking forward to it.

Last night, we went on a Haunted Trails Hike and the evening prior, we attended his Scout Pack Halloween Costume Party meeting.

So, after listening to all of the radio segments, i found broad general similarities, yet nothing specifically close enough to key into for my particular situation, but it did reinforce the general theme of Extra Extra-Ordinary Precautions needed in the future.

I have not come to a conclusion whether my W fits into the Category 1 version or the Category 2 version of the Type of multi-affair individual she has become.

Do you have any further questions to probe my understanding of the situation?

LTL

My WW texted me today to see if there still was a Noon meeting this afternoon and to see which ones are on the schedule for this evening too.

I replied with the times and locations and stated i was proud that she was trying to get back to AA again.

Weird???

It was almost 1 year ago exactly that she tried getting back to AA, at that time for just one meeting.

The anniversary of her mom's death is February 7th and our S-10's 11th Birthday is on February 10th.

It was February 18th last year that she went back that one time.

LTL

Yea, like a late new year resolution.
I would pray that God convicts her and she turns her heart and desires away from the alcohol and matters of the flesh to the Word of God

Thanks Jedi,

I offered a minor encouragement for her seeking out an AA meeting and for the time being, that is where i will leave things.

She did state that she contacted a female from the program who is a mutual family friend. That woman does have a sound 20 year program and Godly devotion towards life and for the most part, would be a good resource for my W to use, if she Follows The Suggestions and makes Sobriety her number one priority in her life once again.

She also said that she was too much of a mess to see our son yet, although i didn't bring that up.

I m unsure at this point if that is a selfish choice, or a self realization that she knows contact with him in the initial stages of seeking alcohol recovery would be detrimental to him at this time.

I'm not going to waste time wondering about it. Let's just see where this goes and if sobriety takes root. She said she is going to be reading the Big Book tonight, but she said that last year too.

LTL

Good that you aren't going to be wondering what your WW is doing. Words are easy, it is actions that count. If she changes for real, you will easily see the difference.

Exactly!!!

I couldn't help myself having a few thoughts cross my mind immediately, but I've been down that path too many times in the past.

For myself, no further contact forthcoming from me. If she contacts me, any replies will just be supportive towards striving for sobriety, as if she were anyone else that reached out at a meeting to me.

Let's see if my emotional state remains calm after all this time getting used to detaching.

LTL

Can you refresh my memory...

Do you have a legal custody of your son now?

No, not legally.

In the past 23 1/2 months since she moved out, she has followed through with picking him up for a visit only 5 times. Zero times since last January 27th.

I have filed for CS through our State Department Of Human Services as of the beginning of this past November, but only heard back from them last week.

If, i went to court, the Judge would surely offer her more opportunities to visit on a fixed schedule, which "Could Have" meant having our S-10 exposed to her current live in affair partner and the other circle of new friends who all encouraged a bar-hopping lifestyle. He is safer with me 100% of the time while she is still in relapse mode.

Another fact to bring you up to date is that she filed for D prior to moving out on February 15th of 2012, but i never got served and the D complaint was Dismissed in late September, 2012 and there is no current actions pending.

LTL

I encourage you to file for emergency custody.
I think Dr Harley would too