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#2794908 04/07/14 09:10 AM
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Hi, I'm in need of help.

2 years ago my wife came home and told me she wanted to separate, I knew what it was, but she wouldn't admit it. A month in I got her to admit to an EA with a coworker, who had made out with her at a party which had prompted the "separation" issue.

We worked through stuff and were getting back on track, but she never left her job and fell back into the affair. For the last year + it's been a pile of lies and poor choices for her and the affair has crossed a lot more boundaries. I've "known" but haven't been able to prove it or get her to admit it, despite basically knowing everything (which has since been confirmed).

A few weeks ago I "snapped" after a downward spiral of more and more "proof" followed by her denials. I went to her place of work and she half admitted things, at which I blew up and confronted him. Nothing physical and at no point directed at her, but loud and absolutely not the way I wanted to do this. It was very much in contrast to who I am and how I've been dealing with a lot of this, and I'm ashamed at my behavior on that day.

After a week on a friends couch to give her space I went home and she had found an apartment and moved out in short order.

Since then it's been a long stream of her saying "This might be the biggest mistake of my life, I'm so stupid, I'm a horrible person." and so on.

I'm certain that he's just using her to stroke his ego, and maybe set himself with a new live in girlfriend if his current one leaves. I know people tend to view blaming the OM as a copout, but there is no doubt in my mind that he's been gaming her in an attempt to push her limits (including having gotten her to start drinking back at the beginning of this mess). She's made her choices, I've accepted that, but she's hooked and no matter how far away she gets he reels her back in when he's bored.

Her family knows, and all her work friends have at least heard the rumor (although I believe it's just served to solidify my place as the countrolling abusive husband that OM has apparently been telling people I am).

We've been spending time together, although she still sees him at work every day (they work very closely) and is still continuing the affair. In the last few days she's been more "lucid" in how she is viewing him and her situation as the OW to him, and we are still extremely close.

I love her very much. We've been together 14 years next week(since we were 18), married for 7, and I want to save our marriage, but the marriage isn't as important to me as she is.

I had been trying to do plan A, but the lying and his games kept me in a state of conflict that I greatly regret. When she moved out I had planned to go to Plan B, but I quickly returned to an attempt at a more legitimate Plan A. I have been avoiding any LB to the best of my ability and have been trying my hardest to return her to the state of conflict at least.

Thanks for listening


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Welcome to Marriage Builders, nowhereman. Sorry for the reasons that have brought you here.

This affair has been going on for such a long time that I don't have high hopes. Even if the affair does die a natural death at work, she has been wayward so long that she is likely to just go onto the next affair partner.

There is a small hope, but it lies only in getting her to leave the job and I don't imagine that is going to happen unless you expose it at work.

If I were you, I would conduct a very strategic, widespread exposure in order to kill the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposing it may have the effect of hastening its death. If that happens, you might have a real chance.

Is the OM married?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thank you for your reply.

I believe the affair is dying, in part from the "exposure" that has occurred and the decisions she has made in the last few weeks. Unfortunately I don't know anyone to expose to on his side except his girlfriend, whom I haven't told. I should have told her 2 years ago, wanted to but was convinced not to, but now I believe the fact that she is still there and my wife can see that he's not making moves to get her out is part of what is waking her up.

As far as exposing at work, I think I missed my chance when I flipped out down there. I'm not allowed back on the property and they clearly didn't, or didn't want to, believe me.


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Tell the girlfriend.

Of the things that you need to do to save your M, breaking up the affair and eliminating contact with the AP are at the top of the list.

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I've thought about it a lot, and have come close a few times, but it has raised questions.

If I expose the affair to her, assuming she doesn't know, and she leaves him doesn't that make it easier for the affair to continue?
Since WW seems angry with OM for not leaving his girlfriend, is it counterproductive to do the heavy lifting for him?
How does one effectively expose to his girlfriend?



Last edited by Nowheremann; 04/07/14 12:53 PM.

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[quote=Nowheremann]Thank you for your reply.

I believe the affair is dying, in part from the "exposure" that has occurred and the decisions she has made in the last few weeks. [quote]

I don't think exposure has occurred. What did you say to your exposure targets EXACTLY? What did you say to the director of Human Resources? The Vice president? His girlfriend? His parents? Her parents?

So, you haven't even used the most potent weapon against an affair. That is really your only hope as far as I see it. I would read through my exposure thread for instructions on how to achieve this. Come back and lets talk.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Nowheremann
I've thought about it a lot, and have come close a few times, but it has raised questions.

If I expose the affair to her, assuming she doesn't know, and she leaves him doesn't that make it easier for the affair to continue?
Since WW seems angry with OM for not leaving his girlfriend, is it counterproductive to do the heavy lifting for him?
How does one effectively expose to his girlfriend?

But, the affair HAS continued, so I don't understand what you mean when you say "make it easier for the affair to continue?"

You already have evidence that your silence leads to a continuation of the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy so your silence has enabled the affair to continue.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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As I said, the "exposure" at work came when I found out and I "lost it" so to speak. Not how I wanted to do it, not something particularly normal to my personality, it just happened. I was removed from the building by the guy who runs the organization, and the HR person, who both insisted that if there was an affair it had nothing to do with work and wasn't their problem because it wasn't happening there; they know because they "have cameras everywhere". They followed up by saying they would look into it, but I'm fairly sure they were just trying to get my sorry broken self off their property. I covered everything, including timeline and such, but I was in the midst of an emotional breakdown and I'm fairly sure I'm just her "crazy husband" at this point.

WW family and friends "know", but those friends who actually believe it or know it to be true have the "do what makes you happy" response to her and have consistantly tried to get her to join them in their "single girl" party lifestyle, something that she was never into prior to this starting and has since expressed a dislike for, but she's not really demonstrating any self control at the moment. None of them seem to grasp the concepts of committed relationships and they enjoy getting her to drink more and more. Lots of FB posts about "we should get her drunk, that would be funny, build up her tolerance so she can drink more" and the like. Their solution is to take her out and drink regardless of what's actually going on, because clearly booze makes things better. They also all work with her and him and seem to think he's a great guy.

I know little about OM family or friends (aside from coworkers) and can't access his FB or his girlfriend's (I believe I was blocked when the affair went dormant the first time). I suspect this is not his first affair, or even only affair at the moment, as he seems to be pretty good at the whole "game" he's playing.

As for the question about exposing to his girlfriend, if I had done it with everything else and she had left him, I believe the affair would be going strong, but because he has not dumped his girlfriend (they live together and bought a house together in the midst of this), WW is turning on him rapidly because he's scurrying to protect his life and trying to convince her this is what she wanted, and that he's got no plans for the future with her.

Her being the OW to his life seems to be helping her recognize what's going on. I am fairly sure though that if OM's GF left, or had left, OM would try to pull WW as a replacement (he apparently wanted her to move in a ways back when his GF was mad at him). Right now WW is feeling used, abused, and in general, very unhappy with OM. She's confessed to both myself and her sister that she wants to stop because it's no good, but says she "can't" or "doesn't know how to".

The problem is that despite the emotional abuse, she's still addicted to the affair and because I can't end the job (which was the problem the first time as well) I can't completely cut him off from her.

I have read your thread and, again not in the best way, covered all of it with as many people as I have had access to, and all in a very quick order.

Again thank you for your help.


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Except that's not the way it usually pans out. How it usually pans out is this. He strings your WW along, saying he's going to leave his GF. He doesn't leave GF, and your WW gets withdrawn and cools off. But she is addicted to the OM and the A, so it eventually rekindles. As it intensifies, he makes promises to leave his GF which he never does. Rinse and repeat.

Do as Melody says. break that A up.

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Originally Posted by Nowheremann
As I said, the "exposure" at work came when I found out and I "lost it" so to speak. Not how I wanted to do it, not something particularly normal to my personality, it just happened. I was removed from the building by the guy who runs the organization, and the HR person, who both insisted that if there was an affair it had nothing to do with work and wasn't their problem because it wasn't happening there; they know because they "have cameras everywhere". They followed up by saying they would look into it, but I'm fairly sure they were just trying to get my sorry broken self off their property. I covered everything, including timeline and such, but I was in the midst of an emotional breakdown and I'm fairly sure I'm just her "crazy husband" at this point.

I would follow up with a certified letter with the verbiage in the template in my exposure thread. Have you read it?

Quote
WW family and friends "know",

That is where I would begin. Did you read the template letters on my thread? Expose to her family members, giving them all the facts and asking them to use their influence to persuade her to end thee affair.

Quote
I know little about OM family or friends (aside from coworkers) and can't access his FB or his girlfriend's (I believe I was blocked when the affair went dormant the first time). I suspect this is not his first affair, or even only affair at the moment, as he seems to be pretty good at the whole "game" he's playing.


So that is what you need to find out. Get to his facebook account and get a copy of his contacts. Being "blocked" would not stop a 5 year old and I don't expect it to stop you. If he truly has a hidden contact list, then there are many other ways you can get the rest of his information. It does not take 2 years to do this.

Anyway, if you are serious about saving your marriage, that is your best shot. You must certainly realize that your own tactics of enabling have not served you well. Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders says "it is hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler." Keeping the affair a secret only serves to enable it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Sir, your own best thinking has about destroyed your marriage. Unless you set aside your own "ideas" of recovery, you are going to end up divorced. You are talking to people who have saved their own marriages and you STILL hang onto your own failed ideas.

That is ok with me because I have already saved my marriage. You can take it or leave it. But please understand that your best ideas have not worked for you.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Nowheremann
As for the question about exposing to his girlfriend, if I had done it with everything else and she had left him, I believe the affair would be going strong, but because he has not dumped his girlfriend

Your beliefs are not based in any substance and are probably fueled by conflict avoidance. Conflict avoiders tend to make up bizarre rationalizations so they can avoid confrontations. This "belief" would fall in that category.

Exposure ruins affairs and you have helped hide the affair for a very long time. Affairs thrive on secrecy and you have driven the getaway car here.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Thank you for your replies. I've been away working and haven't had time to return as of late, so I apologize for not responding sooner.

I have attempted exposure as per the thread suggestions. Her family knows, and I have some support from her close family, although she's not listening to them either.

It would seem that nobody else wants to believe it, or at the very least wants to acknowledge it, including his girlfriend (although there seems to be trouble brewing there). My wife seems to believe that GF doesn't believe it because she is dumb, but believes he is leaving GF "slowly" whatever the hell that means. She was feeling used, but I guess he talked her down from that and so I have stopped communicating with her, although it was hard with the holiday and the anniversary of the start of the relationship.

I'm not sure what's next, I'm trying to move forward but it's not easy not being able to talk to her or see her, and I (as well as her family, non work friend, and our therapist) am concerned for her well being which makes everything so much more difficult.



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What exactly did you tell his girlfriend? Did you give her the evidence of the affair and tell her what your wife told you?

And have you exposed the affair at the workplace yet?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Outside of the above suggestions, I really don't see much hope. I am sorry. frown Dr Harley says to give it 2 years and if the affair has not ended that you should give up and move on. It sounds like you may be at that point.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I told GF everything wife told me, sent letter to workplace, but haven't heard anything from them. My outbursts have left me with credibility issues I'm sure, but I am also aware that OM had been spreading the word that I was controlling and abusive since the beginning (neither are true and it was one of the things that caused my wife to break free the first time). I wish I hadn't snapped, as my wife seems very aware at times that them working together is what keeps her stuck where she is with him.

I'm not wired to give up. Our doctor seems optimistic at our chances providing wife can survive her current self destructive path, and I can stay in the place I am.

It is strange to say, but we do love each other and care about each other very much (yes I know what she is doing doesn't show that, but what she's doing isn't about me).

At this point I suppose I'm looking for a place to vent a little, but also for any help on Plan B, or the three stages of love and how to lead from Withdrawn into Conflict.

Thank you again.



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Originally Posted by Nowheremann
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I'm not wired to give up. Our doctor seems optimistic at our chances providing wife can survive her current self destructive path, and I can stay in the place I am.

What does your doctor see that gives him optimism?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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She seems to be of the opinion that my wife is going through things rooted in her less than perfect childhood, a rebelious phase that never took place in her youth because of her family situation.

She noted that it's very clear that we love and care about each other on a very deep level and mainatain a very strong connection inspite of the current situation.

It was also noted that my wife does not seem to "love" OM and continues to refer to it as "having strong feelings for", but doesn't know what the feelings are. She's desperately seeking validation from him, and while she knows it's bad and that he's bad for her, she can't stop.

Honestly I'm not going to kid myself, as long as she works with him and is trying to maintain whatever shred of secrecy is there (as I said, it would seem that people that work around them refuse to believe it) she isn't going to return, because she knows that a life with me means a change of jobs and the validation and self esteem she gets from that is something she does not want to lose.


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Nowhereman, Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist who has specialized in infidelity for 40 years. It is his opinion that if an affair has not ended in 2 years, that it is hopeless and the betrayed spouse should move on. He doesn't say this because he is pessimistic, but because he is realistic.

The problem with enduring this kind of tragedy for this long is the horrible wear and tear on your psychological and physical well being. You are already suffering the effects of this long endurance:

Originally Posted by nowhereman
A few weeks ago I "snapped" after a downward spiral of more and more "proof" followed by her denials. I went to her place of work and she half admitted things, at which I blew up and confronted him. Nothing physical and at no point directed at her, but loud and absolutely not the way I wanted to do this. It was very much in contrast to who I am and how I've been dealing with a lot of this, and I'm ashamed at my behavior on that day.

Yes, men can endure this painful existence for a longer period of time than women, but even men have their breaking point. You have reached yours. Dr Harley does not believe the marriage is salvageable after a 2 year affair so more of the same on your part is going to be detrimental to your mental health. And you are already suffering the effects.

I would strongly suggest that you do into Plan B and file for divorce. You can't lose with that approach because if she has not ended her affair by the time the divorce is final you will be better off divorced. If she does leave the job and end her affair, you can drop the divorce. It is win/win. Whereas, staying in aimless limbo is the definition of loss because it only hurts, not helps.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? Are you familiar with Plan B?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Sir,
Get that poison out of your life.
Do you want to spend the rest of your life like this?

This is not a normal way to live.

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