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Originally Posted by SP12
I was very reluctant to expose as I was certain this would ruin any chance of a reconciliation as I know his character

Is this a typo? It is NOT exposing that will ruin your chance of a reconciliation.

Dr. Harley knows the character of waywards very well and says that exposure is usually the first step to recovery of the marriage, for those marriages that recover.

Please don't hold on to any hope that you will recover your marriage without exposure. You might as well start preparing for divorce if you are not going to expose. I am sorry.

In fact, even if you decide to divorce, exposure usually still has a lot of advantages. Family and friends need to know the truth about what happened.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by SP12
I believed him when he said he ended things but his behaviour quickly reverted back to old ways and staying out of town again. Then something told me to set up voice recorder

You need to let him know that if he wants to stay married to you, he will have to commit to no nights apart ever, for life, for any reason. If he does not make this commitment, you need to separate from him. And if he ever does spend the night apart from you, you need to be out the door.

If you are not willing to be this committed, then I would not hold out much hope for this marriage.

There is no sense trying to use snooping tools on someone who won't even commit to no nights apart. He hasn't accepted the conditions for recovery. Snooping tools don't accomplish anything - you already know he is wayward! And you already know he is not following the plan for recovery and recovery is impossible!

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Long story short, he asked to come home to talk and we are making a start to reconcile.

Will he commit to no nights apart, for life?

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He admitted he was reluctant to try again as had a lot of unforgiveness and bitterness but after talking to his mum and a couple of friends that know he realised he wants to try.

He is not serious. As long as he is going on about HIS feelings instead of yours, he is not serious and taking him back is a terrible and dangerous risk. I mean, cry me a river - he felt bad because he wasn't sure he could forgive you?? Baloney.

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It's very late here now but we are going to sit down and draw up a plan to rebuild our marriage.

Don't bother planning to rebuild if you are ever going to tolerate a single night apart, ever again. It's not going to work, and there is no point.

Also, don't draw up your own plan - that's a surefire way to make mistakes. Pretty much everybody posting on this site ruined their marriages with their own best thinking. Follow the plan that actually works - Dr. Harley's Surviving an Affair. Of course, that is going to require exposure, and no nights apart. If you try to make a plan that doesn't include those, your marriage is not going to recover, and you should see an attorney immediately and arrange a divorce to spare yourself a lot of heartache.

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We know it will be a long journey but hoping we make it. Yesterday I had no hope at all!

You still should not have any hope since you are planning to keep his affair a secret - it won't work.

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Thank you to all who cared enough to comment and give advice, I know I did not stumble across this site by accident, it has helped immensely.

If you know you didn't come here by accident - why are you eliminating the key parts of the plan? think

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I will be honest, getting over the deceit and knowing he was sexually involved with someone else will be hard for me to get over. If anyone could speak from experience or post any links that may help me I would be grateful.

There is no point to any of this - you can't just make yourself feel different. He will have to actually change. Is his affair still secret? Is he still going to spend nights apart from you? Then he hasn't changed, and your feelings will never change, no matter what tips and techniques you use or how hard you try.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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It is all here and has been posted to you already - no need to create your own plan:

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by SusieQ
[

I would recommend exposing his affair to close family and friends so that you can get the support and help that you desperately need and move into Plan B.

Hugs.

SP12, I am so very sorry for your pain. Please, please follow Susie's advice. Your husband is endangering your health with his affair<s>. Expose his affair today to your family and friends.

Go to him TODAY and give him one last opportunity to make this right. If he won't make it right, you must separate from him immediately. You cannot afford to be around such a dangerous, reckless person in your state. He will cause you to have a nervous breakdown.

Here is what he must do immediately:

1. come completely clean, giving you all the names, contact information, everything about his OW

2. exchange phones with you and cancel his email account, facebook account and any other venue that was used to facilitate his affair

3. agree to never spend the night apart from you again. If he has a traveling job, then he has to find a way to be with you every night until he finds a new job

4. send his OW a no contact letter that can be hand delivered to the mailbox by you

5. Allow you to look at everything on his phone immediately [give him no opportunity to erase and hide things]

If he won't agree to those things, you should ask him to leave immediately and then we will help you go into Plan B. This is what Dr Harley would tell you to do.

Here is the list of EPs from his book Surviving an Affair.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Is the only person exposed to his own mother?

You need a full exposure to everyone of influence in both of your lives to hold him accountable and to not spin a horrible tale about how bad you were and pushed him to the affair.

Are you going to follow the precise plan to the letter?

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Originally Posted by SP12
I was very reluctant to expose as I was certain this would ruin any chance of a reconciliation as I know his character but it was the telling to his mum that did
the trick.

NOT exposing ruins any chance of recovery. Keeping the affair secret ruins your marriage and helps the affair.

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It's very late here now but we are going to sit down and draw up a plan to rebuild our marriage.

Anything other than the plan I gave you from the book Surviving an Affair will fail.

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We know it will be a long journey but hoping we make it. Yesterday I had no hope at all!

Hope is not a plan. The only workable plan is the one we posted to you, which begins with wide spread exposure and an end to the overnight travel. Unless that happens, you should have no hope at all.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Exposure has been done to all in our circles. I was just saying the most effective ones were to his mother and closest friend as they seemed to council some sense into him.
We have discussed all things suggested including full divulgence of info, cutting contact, no nights apart - most of these he suggested himself. As I said in last post it was late nearing midnight and we had a long talk and we decided to do all the rest in the morning. I will be using the plan suggested to me - I know the things I need for us to make this work and won't accept anything less.
Hope is not a plan of course but I've gotta have hope in the change of his behaviour and his willingness this time - before There was only reluctance and excuses.
I'm not naive enough to think all is now well but at least we have a starting point, before this it was a non starter.
We'll give our relationship a good go using the plan and do our best


Me & WH both 33 years old
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Did he write a NC letter for you to send?

When is he going to get tested for STD/I?

When will he change all his contact information?


FWW/BW (me)
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2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Hi SPD, nice to welcome a fellow brit!

Very glad to hear about the exposures and the end to overnights. I do however share everyone's wariness that he plans on throwing you some crumbs though, based on your description of his 'remorse'.

Blame towards you mixed with saying he wants to 'try' rather than 'do' is a common tactic. It tends to mean 'How can I appease you while I take my SSL underground'. That doesn't mean your efforts are not working; they are, but you are not home and dry yet.

Also keep in mind his claim his mother and friend have counselled him 'to try', is just a claim from a proven liar. For all you know they support his affair - certainly his mothers comments to you were not encouraging. It could well be other targets, or his own shame, had more influence. Most likely he is playing nice simply to prevent you from similarly exposing the OW.

Give him the list of things he must do to stay in the marriage and be VERY cool and firm. 'I require it to stay'. I predict you will run into some trouble when it comes to getting the identities of the multiple OW or an NC letter, particularly to the latest one as his main priority has been protecting her.

Probably when you have her identity and exposures are done on her side too you will see a lot more progress. He will be furious initially of course, (he was FAR too calm about his own exposures for my liking) but it will destroy the A.

First and foremost - paying for that PI to look up the mobile phone number you have is well worth the money. (Sorry I wasn't around earlier to explain the data protection act to our American cousins!). She should be exposed as outlined in Melody Lane's signature and thoroughly run off. This should be done without your H's knowledge.

Also take very good care of yourself and that baby. Are you eating and sleeping?



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Blame towards you mixed with saying he wants to 'try' rather than 'do' is a common tactic. It tends to mean 'How can I appease you while I take my SSL underground'. That doesn't mean your efforts are not working; they are, but you are not home and dry yet.

Yep - this stuff about how it's going to be a long journey just sounds like he's not really serious yet. He's going to "try." He's reserving the right to fail, up front. Dr. Harley would not advise any woman to put up with that, because it is going to be a long, miserable false recovery.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by SP12
Exposure has been done to all in our circles. I was just saying the most effective ones were to his mother and closest friend as they seemed to council some sense into him.
We have discussed all things suggested including full divulgence of info, cutting contact, no nights apart - most of these he suggested himself. As I said in last post it was late nearing midnight and we had a long talk and we decided to do all the rest in the morning. I will be using the plan suggested to me - I know the things I need for us to make this work and won't accept anything less.
Hope is not a plan of course but I've gotta have hope in the change of his behaviour and his willingness this time - before There was only reluctance and excuses.
I'm not naive enough to think all is now well but at least we have a starting point, before this it was a non starter.
We'll give our relationship a good go using the plan and do our best

Many of us knew the affair was not over and told you this was useless unless you exposed....but you disappeared on us.

Please keep posting. Because you feel you had some sort of breakthrough with this "talk" with your WH, doesn't mean you are out of the woods, not nearly.

We are trying to prevent another false recovery - it's not worth it to go through that pain and it just makes it harder in the long run to actually save your M.

What actions has your WH actually taken? Has he written the NCL fashioned after the one in SAA? Has he changed ALL his contact information?

Exactly what has he done to make all areas of his life transparent to you and what EPs exactly have been implemented?



Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
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How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
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Originally Posted by SusieQ
Because you feel you had some sort of breakthrough with this "talk" with your WH, doesn't mean you are out of the woods, not nearly.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
I don't believe in "insight therapy" as an effective way to resolve marital conflict -- I believe in "action therapy." Insight is a good beginning, but it's what you do that solves your problem.

(Dr. Harley, Five Steps to Romantic Love)


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Sorry for disappearing but I needed to get things clear in my mind. I began to realise I was not dealing with a normal person. I was given the silent treatment for a week after our talk, he still stayed away overnight despite anything i said, he suggested in a roundabout way that I tell his mum that his affair was a 'misunderstanding'. I continue to be blamed for things and every conversation with him leaves me feeling confused. After some reading online I think I might be dealing with a narcissist.
He still talks to and probably still sees the Ow and I think there is another one. (I know you're all saying 'told you so'

After being so desperate to save this marriage and to do whatever it takes, at this point I could do without him. I need to be away from the lies, deceit, manipulation and general disregard for me.
I asked him to move out and he agreed but kept stalling - telling me he was doing me a favour by sticking around. He has now put a deposit down on a place and should move in the next few days. He has signed a 6 month lease for now.
I have only a few weeks before I have baby, I need some peace, don't know how I made it this far to be honest.
I can't save a marriage by myself, this man will not follow any plan -only does what he wants to do and what suits him.
Maybe God will perform a miracle on him during these 6 months.


Me & WH both 33 years old
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2 kids-1 and 4 years old - one on the way
D day 15/04/2014
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Not a normal person no, but a very normal wayward. Everything you've described is typical.

Originally Posted by SP12
. After some reading online I think I might be dealing with a narcissist.


We hear that a lot. No he is just a garden variety wayward. Behaviour like this, gas lighting, blaming and trying to confuse you is very normal while A contact continues.

You don't ask a wayward to leave - that will never happen. You are half his addiction. Change the locks while he is out and have his things sent on with a Plan B letter.

You don't need a miracle, you need to set very basic boundaries. God won't do for you what you can easily do for yourself.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by SP12
After being so desperate to save this marriage and to do whatever it takes, at this point I could do without him. I need to be away from the lies, deceit, manipulation and general disregard for me.
I asked him to move out and he agreed but kept stalling - telling me he was doing me a favour by sticking around. He has now put a deposit down on a place and should move in the next few days. He has signed a 6 month lease for now.
I have only a few weeks before I have baby, I need some peace, don't know how I made it this far to be honest..


You'll damage your health unless you get Plan B preps done. Do you know how to do this and have you read the thread?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Yep, I know about plan b - was going to do it last month before false reconciliation.


Me & WH both 33 years old
Married nearly 5 years
2 kids-1 and 4 years old - one on the way
D day 15/04/2014
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What preps have you done and can you lock him out of the house and implement no contact?

Do you have an IM?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Did you ever end up exposing?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by SP12
Sorry for disappearing but I needed to get things clear in my mind. I began to realise I was not dealing with a normal person. I was given the silent treatment for a week after our talk, he still stayed away overnight despite anything i said, he suggested in a roundabout way that I tell his mum that his affair was a 'misunderstanding'. I continue to be blamed for things and every conversation with him leaves me feeling confused. After some reading online I think I might be dealing with a narcissist.
He still talks to and probably still sees the Ow and I think there is another one. (I know you're all saying 'told you so'

After being so desperate to save this marriage and to do whatever it takes, at this point I could do without him. I need to be away from the lies, deceit, manipulation and general disregard for me.
I asked him to move out and he agreed but kept stalling - telling me he was doing me a favour by sticking around. He has now put a deposit down on a place and should move in the next few days. He has signed a 6 month lease for now.
I have only a few weeks before I have baby, I need some peace, don't know how I made it this far to be honest.
I can't save a marriage by myself, this man will not follow any plan -only does what he wants to do and what suits him.
Maybe God will perform a miracle on him during these 6 months.

SP12, I say this kindly: You need to stop talking and start listening to us.

Your WH is not a narcissist. He is acting like a TYPICAL wayward who is still in the throes of his affair. We asked you questions that would help us determine whether he was serious about giving up the OW and you , again, disappeared on us.

You need to stop following Plan SP12 and start following MB. We can help you but you need to start listening.

Sorry for the twoxfour but it is extremely difficult as a fellow BS to watch another stand on the train tracks and cover their ears as others (US) are yelling that you need to get off or you are going to get hit.

Sigh.


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
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