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Hi all,

This is my second post. My very good news is that my wife yesterday dedicated herself to cancel her affair, stop all the communication with her lover.

The bad news is that she is totally addicted to him. I have recently realized why this affair resurrected after 4 years of pause. The lover lives in a different country, but they send emails to the other sporadically. I read all of them. Unfortunately it was enough for not letting it fade away.

My question is how to prove the separation in modern times? She is dedicated today, tomorrow she will be weak.

I want to follow Dr Harley's advice but it is impossible to monitor all communication. Too many accounts, personal and company laptops, mobile phones...

Even worse, I needed to leave her alone for two weeks because of different reasons. Which gives me a breath to be honest as it is really difficult to cope with the withdrawal...

Anyway, what is your suggestion? Thanks for your support.

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First off, don't start new threads all the time - keep your whole sitch in one thread so that people can stay up to date on your details and give the best advice.

Dr. Harley's advice is for you to snoop regularly and become integrated enough with her that she could not possibly have an affair without your knowledge. Get tracking software on all of her electronic devices, without her knowledge, etc. Dr. Harley's advice is, literally, "snoop until it becomes boring" - after a year or two of proving herself and of the two of you rebuilding your relationship, you will trust her and will not feel the need to check up on her so much. Of course, don't JUST do this - you have to actually rebuild the marriage.

Which brings me to my next point - marriages can't survive nights apart, especially marriages that have been devastated by an affair. You should not leave her alone for two weeks no matter what the reason. Dr. Harley's advice would be not to do that. If you'll eliminate lifestyle choices like that, you'll discover it's a lot easier to check up on her.

Do you own the book Surviving an Affair? That will list the extraordinary precautions the two of you need to be taking to protect your marriage and recover from the affair. Among those is, no nights apart.

There is no way to make this work if you are going to spend two weeks apart from her; I am sorry.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Thanks for your answer, but I cannot help this issues. How could I install a keylogger to a company phone? Even in her own phone,she could buy a new phone if she wants to do this.

Anyway, it's too late. I'm not at home.

Last edited by GoodNight81; 04/21/14 05:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
Thanks for your answer, but I cannot help this issues.

Then there is no hope for your marriage; I am sorry.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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In your original thread, you already stated that you didn't agree with Dr. Harley's methods, and you are saying the same thing again here. I'm not sure how we can help you if think you know better than Dr. Harley on how to recover a marriage.

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GoodNight,

Sorry for your suffering, but while the OM has your WW under his spell she will never be your wife.

You have to take the fight to the OM, he needs to be exposed to his wife, to his employer, to his church, to his siblings and parents, in short to anyone in his life that matters.

You wrote awhile back what was the purpose of shaming your wife, well your wife is doing a shameful thing not you. You should not be the person victimized, because you did no wrong. As things now stand however you are the one paying for your wifes sins, and while you may be guilty of inaction the burden of guilt is upon your wife.

God Bless
Gamma

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The point of exposure is to shine the light of day onto a disgraceful deed, speeding up the demise of most affairs. The BS asks people for help in ending the affair and for emotional support through one of the most painful things a spouse can endure. Exposure also provides accountability.

Exposure is not designed to "shame" the wayward spouse. Exposure is part of the MB strategy to help end the affair and to ask for support for the BS.

But everyone should know of the affair. If the other person is married, expose to the BS, so they can put pressure on their end.


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Hi All,

there are some misunderstandings here.

1) Exposure is done. At the moment everybody knows it around my wife. Her family is supporting our marriage. Our friends are supporting our marriage. A question-mark is her workplace. My wife's been on a parental leave in the previous years. She hasn't started work yet. We agreed that she will change job as soon as possible. Her lover works for the same multinational in an another country.

I haven't exposed the affair to her boss yet. A very good friend of us is working here. She is an old family friend and supporting me in 100%. She told me my wife's boss is not a honest person, he probably wouldn't support me at all. Dr Harley is American, I'm living in Eastern-Europe. In our culture adultery is not a big shame in my opinion. For instance any politician could do affairs in public without jeopardizing his popularity index.


2) About my current situation. We are moving from one country to another. That's why we have to be separated temporarily, because I need transfer my job and to finish the moving of the house.
In the books it was not emphasized too much that it's a big mistake. You guys are saying it's a big issue. I admit, probably it is, but we need to do the best of the situation.

We're married for 10 years, we are best friends for 20 years, we have 2 beautiful little boys (2 and 4). We have hope.

Not this two weeks will kill our relationship. This is an ongoing affair for a while, and she made a commitment to cancel it.

Unfortunately I haven't heard about Dr Harley's method before. In my opinion if I'm aware before of emotional needs we wouldn't be in trouble right now.


3) Her commitments she made in the last days as follows:
- she cancels the relationship
- she is looking for marriage therapy for us

She also promised to change her personal email address.

However she is seriously considering divorce.
She claims that I should provide her my family commitment, helping with the children, weekend programs together, but she wants to be separated for a while.

I think she is addicted to the affair.

4) My problem is how to block the communication with her lover.
It's no problem for her to buy a new phone anyway. Currently I can monitor her emails, to be honest.

Let's say she changes job, and she don't return to her original workplace. How to secure she won't use her new company account for communication with him? How to secure she won't visit an internet cafee every day?

5) What you guys need to understand that they met only twice since this affair is going on again. It's an internet affair, that man lives thousands miles from us.

Any advice and support is more than welcomed.

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Sir,

Dr. Harley would encourage you to expose to the employer. Top level: CEO, President, Vice President.

You cannot spend nights apart anymore.

Remain in Plan A.

Have you exposed to her lovers family and friends?

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Another question. Why temporary overnight separation is so crucial?
I have some ideas, but please could you write some arguements?

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
Another question. Why temporary overnight separation is so crucial?
I have some ideas, but please could you write some arguements?

First off, 'cancelling' an affair isn't like cancelling a gym membership. You said it yourself, your wife is addicted to the affair partner. So what if your culture turns a blind eye on politicians affairs' I doubt you agreed to an open marriage when YOU married your wife.

Basically you cannot trust your wife especially now. She has told you she is cancelling the affair. So what. What does that mean? Most likely it means she will be more clever in how she decides to maintain contact with her affair partner and tell you what you want to hear.

Also you said it yourself as far as why the no overnights away from your wife...you have not been meeting one another's needs. And while she maintains contact with affair partner and has not set up extraordinary precautions to end affair anything you do to meet her needs will not count. And even if ---by some miracle--- she has 'cancelled' her affair 'membership' and set up extraordinary precautions to heal your marriage, at the most frail point in recovery and at the point you could possibly begin to meet her needs (plan A) you act very cavalear because that's the way your culture views these things you say, and go away for two weeks.

Good luck with recovery. You certainly are going to need it!


BW 58
WH 61
married 35 years
2 adult children
2 grandchildren

"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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Quote
I haven't exposed the affair to her boss yet. A very good friend of us is working here. She is an old family friend and supporting me in 100%. She told me my wife's boss is not a honest person, he probably wouldn't support me at all. Dr Harley is American, I'm living in Eastern-Europe. In our culture adultery is not a big shame in my opinion. For instance any politician could do affairs in public without jeopardizing his popularity index.


SEE Melody Lanes exposure thread. You do not know whom will have influence over your wife. Your so-called very good friend may in fact not be a friend to your marriage. There is such a thing as BS fog as you certainly understand what 'affair fog' is. You sound foggy.



BW 58
WH 61
married 35 years
2 adult children
2 grandchildren

"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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Who did you expose to on OM's side?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
Another question. Why temporary overnight separation is so crucial?
I have some ideas, but please could you write some arguements?

If you are away from one another over nights, you can NOT meet each other's needs, you can NOT fufill your UA time together, you can NOT recover your marriage by being apart ~ I know this because my BH and I tried!. He worked on the oil rigs for over 10 years and was away a good chunk of our marriage. We ended up moving cross country and we took a HUGE hit financially at first.


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Here is a good thread about nights apart.
Traveling Jobs


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Here is a good thread about nights apart.
Traveling Jobs

I second this! This was an IMPERATIVE read for me and as you'll see when you read through it that Dr. Harley himself states that "Anything that takes one spouse away from the other overnight is an invitation for an affair"


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You meeting emotional needs is only part of the picture, you also have to safeguard against an affair by making it impossible. Your WW is a typical wayward, she needs space to think about your marriage and decide what she wants right? Thats code for, She wants space to conduct her Affair with no interference from you.

Your WW will not end the A on her own just because she feels like it, she has to have that contact and she wants that contact soo bad that she can't live without it, that is what addiction means and that is where your wife is now.

Good luck and i hope you listen to the advice you are being given here, we have your Marriage's best interest at heart here.

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Thank you guys for all support.

Now it is exposured to her company.

I am very sick, all alone in our old house. Not used children toys and other mementos our lost life are everywhere.

As she is a serial cheater, I'm considering plan B.

My other idea if I ask a serious thing to prove the a#air is ended. I ask her to cancrl her job immediately. She loves her job, she is looking fwd to do it after long parental leave... If she cancel her job, she looses her company car immediately. If she does so probably it's enough motivation to me to continoue plan A...

If she doesnt, Plan B is comming...

I am a fool. I so miss this vampire, I cannot accept that my beloved partner became a zombie... My heart is broken. She told me some days ago how my boys miss me... The 2 yr old said, he belongs to dady, he belongs to mummy. He asked for drawing of me. The 4 yr old said, he miss me.

I am afraid of plan B. Realistically, there is so small hope, as this affair started 4 yrs ago. That time I was following plan B without reading the book, she returned to me, as she was pregnant with my child. Child is proven to be mine.

I thought everything is OK, but the fact is that there was sporadic contact. One or two mails per year. Some month ago she restarted the affair.

She stated she never loved me, I was only her best friend and her stability.

Now I have serious concerns about following plan A. We agreed last week that any contact with OM means immediate divorce.

My abscence from home is a good test of her commitment. I believe she will fail.

So my concern is to ask for immediate resignation or it is counter-productive?


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GN - Your marriage will not survive if she keeps working at the current job she's in. My BH took a HUGE pay cut, but he needed to in order to be home at nights.
Also, WHY did you leave your home? you need to go back!!


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Who all did you expose to?

Who on OM's side did you expose to?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Also, please read this.
Men, Don't Leave your Homes!!!!


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I exposed to: family, friends, company.
OM's side: nobody, it's a different country with a language i don't speak. The guy is not on facebook and similars.

But there are news!

We agreed this weekend that we are going for a half year trial period if we can fix the marriage or not. It includes separation from OM, marital thearapy, etc...

I was thinking and I realized we are doing too much plan A as she is a serial cheater.

I told her this morning on skype, that I don't see her commitment strong enough. I asked her to resign immediately. She was very upset. She had concerns about financial issues.

I said if you don't give your notice in, right now, I go for divorce.

She denied to do this. So, I made a plan B letter. I published it to the family. No communication will happen, just by IM.

If she wants R, next day we can go for the therapy if she organize it. Resignation is a must. If she gives in the divorce paper, it's fine. I won't do it until the two year is over.

She is telling us that she really closed communication with OM, but it's just 4 days, so I wouldn't take it too seriously.

No there is no way back, I'm doing plan B.


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Sir, talking on Skype wont solve anything.
You need to be with her.

As for the marital therapy, that is a terrible idea.

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Guys, no question. She stated divorce.

How to survide this? How?

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I was very family oriented. This was my motivation. To go home to my wife and kids.

It's gone. No wife anymore. No kids around me, just sometimes.

How to cope with it????

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Sir, do you wish for your wife and children to respect you? Then take a stand and stop cowering at what is happening.

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Do not take the third step before the first step.
You have a very good chance of saving your marriage.
Your wife's afair maybe long term, but it is not grounded in reality.
The other man does not have to do anything at the moment: He does not have to provide a place to live and money to eat. He does not have to put up with her menstrual cramps. He does not have to talk about finances with her. He does not need to help her raise and discipline the children. He does not even have to go out on a dat with her!
All he has to do is to sit behind a computer and provide emotional support. And while he is getting credit for doing that YOU are the one who is providing for her in real life.

Now

1. You will have to expose to the other men's side.
- Problem 1: you don't speak the language
Solution: tell us which country it is. There are people
from all over the world posting on these forums and we will
be happy to help. Should
nobody her speak Xosa or the like, you will have to try
google translator (lighten up, that is how the manuals of
cheap products are translated). Or write in English, or ask
the ambassador or the university or websites for
translators or a translation agency (30 Euro per page)
You see, this is a non-problem that can be solved online.
- Problem 2: You do not know the adress of the wife.
The easiest thing would be to snoop. If you know his phone
number or name, try the internet. If that does not work
then you can always hire a PI. By the way, if he is in such
a secluded country (Chechenia?, North Korea?) is it a
muslim country? Because Then you can report him to the
police for adultery etc. They will not only provide you
with the adress, but also take him to court. You are
probably making this harder than it is.
So: get the info so you can expose. This cocroach will flee from the light of day and will have to face reality and the wrath of his wife, who he has been neglecting.

2. Sabotage their contact
Take your wife's phone away. She cannot have contact with that man in your house. If it's a company phone you may be able to take the SIM-card and put it in another phone that you will keep with you. You can then set the phone to forward calls after x seconds. That way you would be able to take any calls coming from the other man yourself, while letting all other calls go through to your wife's phone. Give it some thought and think creatively. Maybe you can block certain websites or disable internet acces. Or just be with her all the time, so she does not have time to contact him. It is highly disrespectful of her to contact him in your own home.

3. Plan A comes before Plan B
Of course you should be stern and tell your wife to cut all contact. But going away and telling her to quit her job from afar has not worked. Of course plan B is in order when plan A fails and you have done everything you can to stop the affair. But you do not seem to be at that point yet. Your wife's number one emotional need she got from the OM may be conversation, admiration or something else, you can probably judge by reading the e-mails.

Now have a bit of patience, because while you are away, it is not possible to do much. But you may be able to organize the adress of the OM and to have a letter in his language written.
Separation at this point is not going to help you save your marriage. You have 2 lovely boys here. You can try harder for them. You do not want them to have another father, do you? Have you worked on eliminating love busters from your side?
Wait with plan B until it is time. Come here to vent and tel us your plans so that you won't don anything stupid because of the stress you are in.

Tell us the language, we would like to help you.

Happyheart


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Hi All,

the affair is already exposed.
She is a serial-cheater.
She re-flamed her old affair which happened five years ago. They kept sporadic contact.

I was doing plan A since January.
We agreed having a marital therapy, but I had doubt about her will of cancelling the affair.

I asked her to resign her job as it was a workplace affair (international, anyway), otherwise I said I cannot do it, I'm done.

She said, no problem, divorce.

I see very little hope for R.
It's very painful. I want to be with my family, but my mind suggest me to D.

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If you wish to divorce her that is your right, she is a serial cheater, but do not give up on your children!

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I don't give up. I'm doing plan B.

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And again, my wife states she never had love attachment to me.
She says she never felt romantic love. She married me because I'm a nice person and her best friend.

All Dr. Harley's method is about refueling love which existed before. But if our marriage is based on lie or sub-conscious pretend?

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And again, my wife states she never had love attachment to me.
She says she never felt romantic love. She married me because I'm a nice person and her best friend.

All Dr. Harley's method is about refueling love which existed before. But if our marriage is based on lie or sub-conscious pretend?

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
And again, my wife states she never had love attachment to me.
She says she never felt romantic love. She married me because I'm a nice person and her best friend.

All Dr. Harley's method is about refueling love which existed before. But if our marriage is based on lie or sub-conscious pretend?

Nearly ALL Waywards rewrite the marital history and spew all sorts of revisionist remembrances, do uch as stating that they NEVER were in love with their BS anyways, or that the marriage has been over for years, or it has only been a marriage on paper.

What do YOU remember?

LTL

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
And again, my wife states she never had love attachment to me.
She says she never felt romantic love. She married me because I'm a nice person and her best friend.

All Dr. Harley's method is about refueling love which existed before. But if our marriage is based on lie or sub-conscious pretend?
All waywards rewrite history. So of course she's going to say that garbage. Don't believe her fog babble.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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You say the affair was exposed, but that you were not able to contact his wife.
His wife will be your biggest ally in keeping him away from his wretched computer.


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Have you contacted OM's BW?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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It's almost over.

I connected OM's BW. The same day my wife stated that she wants divorce, OM is more important than myself.

She is living with my 2 and 4 year old boy. It's crazy. All my stuff is packed. My flat is not my flat anymore. I took the children for the weekend to my mother's house. Now I'm sitting in my old home, typing my old laptop which is her laptop right now. I have nothing at home.
Today there is no work, I'm waiting for the afternoon to get the children home from the creche.

She will be home in the evening. I don't know what to do, what to say.

If I take the children on the weekend, I support her affair.
If I move out from my home, I support her affair.
If I stay home, I'll go crazy, I cannot live like this anymore.

I'm emotionally attached to her.
She gave me chess-mate.

[censored] sad.

Plan B is almost impossible because of the children. I want daily contact with the kids. We need to discuss many things about them.

Plan A did not work. I also made mistakes, as I allowed overnight separation. I had angry outbursts.

And she was smiling at me and invited me for diner. I said, I stay if you cancel your relationship with OM. Silence. Goodbye. It was yesterday.

I also have written plan B letter, but I was not able to implement it. It was one or two weeks ago. The consequence is now, divorce.



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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
It's almost over.

I connected OM's BW. The same day my wife stated that she wants divorce, OM is more important than myself.

Why did she say that? Because OM called and complained?
It sounds like you may have thrown a wrench into their affair operation.

Have you exposed on www.cheaterville.com?

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At this point, I feel you should NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME.
Remain in Plan A.
What did the OM wife say?

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Good job for contacting OM's BW.

What did she say?


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Haha. OM's wife was very upset. She said its painful for her, I should let her alone. She said I shouldnt hold my wife. She called OM. OM called my wife.

They were upset and my wife stated she wants divorce.


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Haha. OM's wife was very upset. She said its painful for her, I should let her alone. She said I shouldnt hold my wife. She called OM. OM called my wife.

They were upset and my wife stated she wants divorce.


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Haha. OM's wife was very upset. She said its painful for her, I should let her alone. She said I shouldnt hold my wife. She called OM. OM called my wife.

They were upset and my wife stated she wants divorce.


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good job with the contact with the Om's wife sit back let it play out�..you have hit a nerve���.
don't you leave your home, why? If she wants out let her go.


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Plan A did not work. I also made mistakes, as I allowed overnight separation. I had angry outbursts.

This is why Plan A hasn't worked. You must make yourself irreplaceable through Plan A, but angry outbursts makes OM look like a saint next to you.

Stay in Plan A, without the Lovebusters this time.


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Now I moved in to my house for some days.

I'm very calm and relaxed. I'm enjoying being with the kids.

My wife is in withdrawal, she wants divorce. She said she cannot live with me. She is trying to provoke me with selfish demands. She puts the blame on me.

I'm relaxed and I say only positive things.

We will see.

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Well, it's promising.

The atmosphere was very good today. We played with the kids, there was laughing. She gave me some nice, honest hugs.

I hope the fog will disappear from her brain.

Imagine lads, she wants to meet OM later this month, and she wants me to take care of the children while she is away! That's why she wants divorce urgently, to rationalize this nonsense?

I said nothing. I continued to play with the kids. Strictly no angry outbursts. Just positive communication. She said something very dazed, that we need to talk about this, and I didn't say a word. I think there was sunshine through the fog because I saw in her eyes that she gets the point of the reality of this impossible situation what she asks for.

The bigger little fellow asked us this evening, daddy are you gonna leave our house? I said nothing. She said, we don't know yet.

But I know: I never leave my boys. The question is, how can I implement this goal?

In the morning he asked me: Daddy, do you miss mummy? He is four, and he is asking these questions. She was at work in the morning. I said to him, yes, I do, and I cried.



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It's also a question, what should I do if she really meet with OM, in public? I believe it's the end of any plans, I'd prefer D, but how can I protect my family? Plan B? But how? Kids are so small, they really need their mother. How to protect them from OM?

I hope I can achieve with Plan A, that this meeting won't happen.
Not because of restrictions, but probably she will choose her family and not the OM, by her own will.

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
It's also a question, what should I do if she really meet with OM, in public? I believe it's the end of any plans, I'd prefer D, but how can I protect my family? Plan B? But how? Kids are so small, they really need their mother. How to protect them from OM?

I hope I can achieve with Plan A, that this meeting won't happen.
Not because of restrictions, but probably she will choose her family and not the OM, by her own will.
Are you remaining in the house? Has she filed the D papers yet?


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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
Kids are so small, they really need their mother. How to protect them from OM?

Your best bet is to execute the world's best Plan A and win her back - expose and disrupt the affair, while simultaneously being the best possible husband. Take antidepressants and don't dicker about it - just go get them prescribed so that your emotions don't get the best of you and sabotage your Plan A. I disagree with the idea that children need a wayward mother - but you have a lot of potential to get back their real mother, the woman she was before the affair. You are their best hope.


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Yes, I am remaining in my home. D papers are not filled yet.

Lads, pray for us.

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She is very nice with me. She smiles, she assures she loves me as her best friend, but she cannot stay my wife.

She is going to a lawyer tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
She is very nice with me. She smiles, she assures she loves me as her best friend, but she cannot stay my wife.

She is going to a lawyer tomorrow.
Then you need to up your Plan A.

What are her top ENs? What are you doing to meet those?

Are you committing any love Busters?


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Problem.
She is very confident about divorce. She is filling papers tomorrow.
Next week she meet OM.


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I am very sad. My family is over now.

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
Problem.
She is very confident about divorce. She is filling papers tomorrow.
Next week she meet OM.
How do you know she's filing? Filing and signing the papers are two different things. You don't have to agree to the divorce.

How do you know she's going to see OM? How?


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She told me. She said, I'm filling the papers. Next week I meet him, Friday and Saturday.

I told, please don't, it is too hard for me.

She said if I am not balanced enough she takes the children with her!!!

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
She told me. She said, I'm filling the papers. Next week I meet him, Friday and Saturday.

I told, please don't, it is too hard for me.

She said if I am not balanced enough she takes the children with her!!!

Visit an attorney immediately

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
It's also a question, what should I do if she really meet with OM, in public? I believe it's the end of any plans, I'd prefer D, but how can I protect my family? Plan B? But how? Kids are so small, they really need their mother. How to protect them from OM?

I hope I can achieve with Plan A, that this meeting won't happen.
Not because of restrictions, but probably she will choose her family and not the OM, by her own will.

Kids need both parents.
But wayward mothers make TERRIBLE SINGLE PARENTS

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
It's also a question, what should I do if she really meet with OM, in public? I believe it's the end of any plans, I'd prefer D, but how can I protect my family? Plan B? But how? Kids are so small, they really need their mother. How to protect them from OM?

I hope I can achieve with Plan A, that this meeting won't happen.
Not because of restrictions, but probably she will choose her family and not the OM, by her own will.

Dr. Harley does encourage men to confront their wifes affair partners.
Obviously you cant kill or injure him (unless you are in the mob)

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Why are you saying that WW makes a terrible single parent?

Is it based on a research or just your personal rationalisation?

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
Why are you saying that WW makes a terrible single parent?

Is it based on a research or just your personal rationalisation?

Actually, research shows that single mothers do a horrible job of raising kids.
However, waywards are worse...because they set no moral guidance. Many also place their kids at risk when they leave their husbands for a scumbag.

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What kind of research? Any reference?

Rationally speaking, my kids love their mother. They need her even if she is W.

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Anyway, we are f. up.

Whatever will happen, their will see our example. No honor, no loyality.


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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
What kind of research? Any reference?

Rationally speaking, my kids love their mother. They need her even if she is W.
Dr. H talked about a study on the radio show about children raised in single father home's compared to single mother's.

Here it is: MATERIAL REFERENCED: Fatherless America by David Blankenhorn

Dr. Harley's Radio Clip on Fatherless America Study at 7:20 Mark


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by GoodNight81
What kind of research? Any reference?

Rationally speaking, my kids love their mother. They need her even if she is W.
Dr. H talked about a study on the radio show about children raised in single father home's compared to single mother's.

Here it is: MATERIAL REFERENCED: Fatherless America by David Blankenhorn

Dr. Harley's Radio Clip on Fatherless America Study at 7:20 Mark

Good clip to listen to and also well articulated reviews in favor of the books premise when i looked them up.

I personally believe it has become more pertinent in BBB today's times, even 19 years after it was 1st published.

LTL

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An update.

Her affair is ended. OM ended the affair. She is still in love.
She gave in divorce papers.

She is not a zombie anymore with me, however, she says she cannot be my wife again. We can raise the children as friends, this is her position.




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GoodNight,

You wrote,Her affair is ended. OM ended the affair. She is still in love.

Let OM understand that he is in your crosshairs for the rest of his life for what he did to your children.

God Bless
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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
An update.

Her affair is ended. OM ended the affair. She is still in love.
She gave in divorce papers.

She is not a zombie anymore with me, however, she says she cannot be my wife again. We can raise the children as friends, this is her position.
So, what is your position?

If you want your wife back, here is your chance. She is not going to automatically fall back in love with you. You are going to have to make that happen.


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Are you still in Plan A?

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To be honest I want to have a nice family life.
Two small children! Lads, 3 and 5 year old boys!!!

If she can love me, family life with her is my preference.
If she cannot love me, I don't know.

Her preference is raising children together as friends or kind of good neighbours. This is her very clear statement based on our marriage history.

In contrast I want her to love me and choose me by her heart!
I have no clue how she will desire me again. This is the key. If she would have the desire, we could build a family. If she doesn't have, I can be a nice divorced daddy.

Basically it's plan A what I'm doing at the moment.


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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
To be honest I want to have a nice family life.
Two small children! Lads, 3 and 5 year old boys!!!

If she can love me, family life with her is my preference.
If she cannot love me, I don't know.

Her preference is raising children together as friends or kind of good neighbours. This is her very clear statement based on our marriage history.

In contrast I want her to love me and choose me by her heart!
I have no clue how she will desire me again. This is the key. If she would have the desire, we could build a family. If she doesn't have, I can be a nice divorced daddy.

Basically it's plan A what I'm doing at the moment.

Sir, have you read Surviving an Affair?

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Yes, I read it. What part of the book do you want to emphasize?

As I see it, the book is nice, but to recover from an affair, the unfaithful spouse has to want the recovery as well.

My wife, she says, "I don't want to be your wife. I want you to be my partner in raising children, but not a wife." Her statement is, that she tried to be a good wife, she failed, so she doesn't want it anymore.

I'm wondering how Plan A or Plan B would help with this statement.

My understanding is, you cannot force to be loved.

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It sounds as if your wife has fallen out of love with you. Plan A is to help get her back in love with you. However, if you do not think that possible and do not wish to try, Plan B is to remove yourself from the situation and have no contact with her. Plan B is not to win a spouse back, but rather to protect your love bank from depletion, and protect you from the affair.

All your wife is saying is "I want my cake and I want to eat it too." This is classic affair thinking, it does not make your situation an exception to the program.

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
My wife, she says, "I don't want to be your wife. I want you to be my partner in raising children, but not a wife." Her statement is, that she tried to be a good wife, she failed, so she doesn't want it anymore.

Countless WW have told their husbands this. She does not love you. That is a given.

But, as a BH, you have a very good chance of winning her love if you follow the program and as long as you are the only man depositing love units. Many BHs have brought their hateful WWs back.

You need to be focused less on what she is willing to do at the moment, and more on making her fall in love with you.


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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
I'm wondering how Plan A or Plan B would help with this statement.

My understanding is, you cannot force to be loved.

Actually, Marriage Builders is a program to essentially do that - to change your wife's feelings, by changing your behavior. To some extent it can happen even if your wife doesn't believe in it happening, if you can get her to spend time with you. Many of us including myself have gone through the process of winning over a reluctant wife. Her feelings and her beliefs change completely when she is in love with her husband again.

Have you fully exposed the affair? Personally informed her family, friends, clergy, employer (if a workplace affair), and children over the age of 4? This is the first step.

Has she completely cut off contact with her affair partner? This is the next step.


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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
An update.

Her affair is ended. OM ended the affair. She is still in love.
She gave in divorce papers.

She is not a zombie anymore with me, however, she says she cannot be my wife again. We can raise the children as friends, this is her position.

This is a DAILY program.

Your post arrives to us in October, having last posted in May.

You have got to work every DAY to make this program work. When this program is applied DAILY, great results are possible.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
Two small children! Lads, 3 and 5 year old boys!!!

The best possible outcome for those boys is for their mother and father to be in love with each other for life.

Quote
In contrast I want her to love me and choose me by her heart!

That is exactly what happens after a man makes enough love bank deposits into his account in his wife's Love Bank. In fact, that is the only time it happens.

People all over the world fall in love every day. It is relatively easy to achieve.

Quote
I have no clue how she will desire me again.

Dr. Harley has helped thousands of husbands achieve this result with their wives.


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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
Yes, I read it. What part of the book do you want to emphasize?

As I see it, the book is nice, but to recover from an affair, the unfaithful spouse has to want the recovery as well.

My wife, she says, "I don't want to be your wife. I want you to be my partner in raising children, but not a wife." Her statement is, that she tried to be a good wife, she failed, so she doesn't want it anymore.

I'm wondering how Plan A or Plan B would help with this statement.

My understanding is, you cannot force to be loved.

What we do is show you how to cause her to fall in love. Eventually, it takes both people to make a marriage work, but we can help you in this process.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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GoodNigth,

You wrote, My wife, she says, "I don't want to be your wife. I want you to be my partner in raising children, but not a wife." Her statement is, that she tried to be a good wife, she failed, so she doesn't want it anymore.

Do you really want to live with a woman who gives you a very slim hope of ever loving you again. A female friend of my W is married to a guy who waited 10 years for his WW to end her affairs and ended up divorced and destroyed after waiting that long.

If you don't want that fate for yourself than expose the OM like mad.

God Bless
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It's exposed.

I'm so tired of this.



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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
It's exposed.

I'm so tired of this.

To whom did you expose? And how?

What was their reaction?


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It's a long story, I exposed the affair to everybody. Family, friends, OM's wife, wife's friend.

I think that was the point when my wife turned against of me.
She got very angry, and she went for divorce.




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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
It's a long story, I exposed the affair to everybody. Family, friends, OM's wife, wife's friend.

I think that was the point when my wife turned against of me.
She got very angry, and she went for divorce.

If the affair is actually over and she has no contact with the affair partner then you have a good chance of winning her back.
Where is she living?
How often do you interact with her and how to you interact (in person, taxt, phone etc)?

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This is the issue. Affair is practically over, as OM lost trust. No personal meetings, no calls.

But there is emailing. So emotional contact does exist.

I am more or less living with her and the kids.

She is now on the court, the first stage if divorce is happening right now.


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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
This is the issue. Affair is practically over, as OM lost trust. No personal meetings, no calls.

But there is emailing. So emotional contact does exist.

I am more or less living with her and the kids.

She is now on the court, the first stage if divorce is happening right now.
Have you had any UA time together?


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UA? Very little. Family programs, yes.
She always finds an excuse why we shouldn't do it.

I am so tired of this. I should accept the loss, and arrange my life as a divorced father. The problem is I don't want this fate.

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
This is the issue. Affair is practically over, as OM lost trust. No personal meetings, no calls.

But there is emailing. So emotional contact does exist.

I am more or less living with her and the kids.

She is now on the court, the first stage if divorce is happening right now.

The affair has not died an natural death and is still active

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Do NOT leave your home Sir.
If you divorce, file for full custody.
In the meantime, post OM on Cheaterville

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Ok, affair hant died yet. And? What to do? Plan B is not an option as I cannot implement it. Any advice?

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
UA? Very little. Family programs, yes.
She always finds an excuse why we shouldn't do it.

I am so tired of this. I should accept the loss, and arrange my life as a divorced father. The problem is I don't want this fate.

Then you need to woo her. Treat it like a situation where a man is absolutely enamored by a woman he wants to marry, who is not married to him. He will continually ask her on dates and try to be a part of her life and try to do things for her. Do that, if you want to keep her!

Meanwhile, do NOT let up on the affair and how hurtful it is to you. Tell everybody you know about it, and everybody she knows, and everybody the OM knows.

Get yourself on antidepressants so your emotions don't make you unable to stick to a plan.

Are you listening to the radio show daily?


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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
UA? Very little. Family programs, yes.
She always finds an excuse why we shouldn't do it.

You have to keep asking. Just like all of the rest of us did.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
This is the issue. Affair is practically over, as OM lost trust. No personal meetings, no calls.

But there is emailing. So emotional contact does exist.

Does the OM's wife know he is still having an affair with your wife?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Yes, OM's wife knows it.

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It's so strange now...

Now, the affair is emotional only.

Wife still wants to divorce.

But, on the another hand, she is wants to keep this strange situation. I'm a half husband, she is a half-wife.
She wants "privacy" for herself. Privacy means emotional contact with OM.

Do you know, it reminds me a cancer in a body. Given an almost perfect woman, with a lot of love, responsibility, smart brain, loving mother. But, she is feeding a cancer in her spirit. This affair makes her acting against her principles, against our family. What a dissonance!

She told my children: "Don't lie. Liers are bad, they lie because they want to force people to do something." And meanwhile...

I don't want to leave my home.

What to do? I have no clue.


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You Plan A her until you can't anymore. Can you still Plan A her? This means showing her care at the same time avoiding all love busters. I know before you stated that you continue to do love busting and you must not do that.

Your goal is to be the better option, and get her to fall back in love with you. Meanwhile, continue to demand she end contact. Continue to make OMW aware of any contact between them.

Your wife still wants to D because she is not in love with you, and her A continues and she IS in love with the OM.

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unwritten, I think I'm pretty good in avoiding love busters. Not perfect, anyway.

Thx. smile

I need some support definitely, but no one can support who didn't go through of this.

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unwritten, what you write is correct.

My doubt is if Plan A really works?

Is there anybody here who made a successful Plan A?

A lot of people says Plan A is basically an introduction for a good Plan B. I cannot do Plan B, the children are too small.

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Quote
unwritten, I think I'm pretty good in avoiding love busters. Not perfect, anyway.
Eliminate them completely. "Not perfect" is an excuse. And every time you lovebust her, you are making OM look that much better to her.




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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
unwritten, what you write is correct.

My doubt is if Plan A really works?

Is there anybody here who made a successful Plan A?

A lot of people says Plan A is basically an introduction for a good Plan B. I cannot do Plan B, the children are too small.
Do you have the book SAA?


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Yes, read that book. That's why I'm asking.

Is there anybody here who made a successful Plan A?

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
Yes, read that book. That's why I'm asking.

Is there anybody here who made a successful Plan A?

Yes.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by GoodNight81
Yes, read that book. That's why I'm asking.

Is there anybody here who made a successful Plan A?

Yes.


I'd listen to markos very closely if I were you.


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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
It's so strange now...

Now, the affair is emotional only.

Wife still wants to divorce.

But, on the another hand, she is wants to keep this strange situation. I'm a half husband, she is a half-wife.
She wants "privacy" for herself. Privacy means emotional contact with OM.

Do you know, it reminds me a cancer in a body. Given an almost perfect woman, with a lot of love, responsibility, smart brain, loving mother. But, she is feeding a cancer in her spirit. This affair makes her acting against her principles, against our family. What a dissonance!

She told my children: "Don't lie. Liers are bad, they lie because they want to force people to do something." And meanwhile...

I don't want to leave my home.

What to do? I have no clue.

You vanished for a month again. Didn't I post already about how this is a daily program and has to be applied daily?

Are you on antidepressants?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Hi Markos,

First of all thank you for support!

Here is my way of implementing Plan A:
- avoiding her love busters (I know them)
- making effort for fulfilling her emotional needs (which I am capable. As she doesn't want to spend time together...)
- spending a lot of time with the children, putting a lot of effort to family life.
- Avoiding arguing, talks about the affair.
- making efforts to improve myself: both in body and in mind
- no antidepressants

Why I'm a little bit desperate:
- she claimed her affair is ended. Not because of me, it's just ended, as she doesn't trust in OM anymore
- unfortunately they are in daily contact. No meeting, only Internet. But still, she is in love with the OM.
- OM claimed affair is not ended. He is trying, be she keeps a definite distance. However she tells him, "I love you", but she doesn't want to meet him regularly, or at all.
- OM's wife, she knows everything.
- our divorce papers are filled in, process started by her
- meanwhile, our relationship became much closer. We are speaking again, about deep topics. We laugh together sometimes.
- no sex.

So, I thought it's quite a promising progress, generally.

I need to make myself force to follow Plan A. It's very hard. It'd be very easy to leave, but the children (3, 5) make me stay. And, I love her, too.

Some days ago I noticed a text message on her phone. I'm not spying, it was obvious, appearing on the screen. I lost control, I was behaving as child, crying in my bed.




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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
Some days ago I noticed a text message on her phone. I'm not spying, it was obvious, appearing on the screen. I lost control, I was behaving as child, crying in my bed.
There is nothing wrong with spying, and there is nothing wrong with her seeing that you are upset, so long as you don't engage in love busters. It would be a bigger mistake to not react at all. She might interpret no reaction as a lack of care.

I had a successful Plan A. I didn't hide my feelings, but I didn't beat my wife over the head with them, either. Now, years into recovery, my wife is determined to never again do anything that would hurt me so much as the affair did.


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I close the thread. Affair is over, I am still doing Plan A. The athmosphere is pretty good at home, the children are happy...

But...

I open a new thread about this 'but'.

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First of all I'd like to say thanks to anybody whoever posted into my previous topic.

I am pretty sure my wife closed her affair. The affair died kind of natural death.

She is not a zombie anymore. She smiles, she can concentrate on the kids 100% again. Even more, she is smiling at me. She started very serious spiritual work to recover, I believe. She goes to the mass again. She is going for consulting.

She admires that I am with her, my plan A. It is something I am proud of, to be honest.

She tells me she really enjoys my company again. It feels much better with me than without me, she says. We can laugh, we can work together. We spent a wonderful Christmas together with our children, 3 and 5.

But. She files for divorce as she is not attracted to me anymore. No sexual desire. She cannot imagine sex with me. Frankly, she can, but no desire. Do you get the point? She sleeps with me, but no sex... She is suffering because of lack of sexuality, I also suffer, we sleep together, but she just does not consider myself a sexual partner.

I want her to be sexy again. I want her to be mad about me, as I felt she was before. She says she was never mad about me, but my memories say the opposite.

Any advice is more than welcomed. I am not a native English speaker, I hope my post is clear enough. Pretty hard to write about this issue, frankly.

Please stick to one thread..MBeliever

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I would go back to your thread on Surviving an Affair so you can work on saving your marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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How do you know the affair is over? Will she write a NC letter?

Please remind me, do you have the book SAA?


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Believe me, affair is over.

I read the book, however what I need is not an ad, but some advice and experiences what people have done in my shoes.


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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
Believe me, affair is over.

I read the book, however what I need is not an ad, but some advice and experiences what people have done in my shoes.

An ad? crazy What does that mean? The advice we have for you is in the book Surviving an Affair. Have you read it?

And how do you know the affair is over? Does she ever have any contact with him at all. EVER?


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Can you answer the questions?

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She told me she has no interest in OM anymore. She stopped messaging. He tried to visit her, she refused.
No text messages are coming to her phone anymore.

Obviously, I cannot monitor three laptops and computers in her company. I don't even want to do it.

She is a free person. It's her decision if she wants to be with the only real man who loves her, with the father of her children, with a childhood friend, with her first lover: with me.

I won't spy on her anymore, I did it a year ago, I'm tired of this.

She is free to go, I won't beg on my knees. I told her I love her, I told her I don't want a woman more than her, but I also told her she is free to leave me or divorce.

I want her to love me again.

I want her to desire me, not just be with me because it's comfortable or because of the children.

But I don't want to force her to do anything.


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I am confused. Please show me one place where anyone suggested you "FORCE" her to do anything? What we suggested is that you hold her accountable by snooping. How can you possibly do that if you don't snoop? You obviously can't address any potential problems if you don't snoop. It was blind trust that led to this affair in the first place.

You are asking us to help you without even knowing if the affair is really over. We have to know it is over in order to help you move forward. You can't solve problems when you don't have all the facts.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I would also add that "stay or go, I don't care" would make any W (wayward or not) think her husband, well, doesn't care!

We say avoid being a doormat but also not to be indifferent. I love you and will fight for you is what women respond to.

Are you interested in following the MB plan?

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Agree with alis, you don't seem to care very much.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by GoodNight81
She told me she has no interest in OM anymore. She stopped messaging. He tried to visit her, she refused.
No text messages are coming to her phone anymore.

Obviously, I cannot monitor three laptops and computers in her company. I don't even want to do it.

She is a free person. It's her decision if she wants to be with the only real man who loves her, with the father of her children, with a childhood friend, with her first lover: with me.

I won't spy on her anymore, I did it a year ago, I'm tired of this.

She is free to go, I won't beg on my knees. I told her I love her, I told her I don't want a woman more than her, but I also told her she is free to leave me or divorce.

I want her to love me again.

I want her to desire me, not just be with me because it's comfortable or because of the children.

But I don't want to force her to do anything.


So, nada unless she loves you right off the bat?

Do you understand the lovebank model?

If so, you'd know it is IMPOSSIBLE for her to love you until the A is over, withdrawal and 15,hours UA.

It's not pixie dust. Love isn't sprinkled above by Cupid. You're going to have to create any love if you want it. Does that involve bothering to snoop? You betcha.

Divorce her if you want to, no BS is obligated to recover, but make up your mind. All in or all out? Because waiting for pixie dust is not a plan.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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