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*edit*

I do not understand the meaning of these words mustyread. Are you copying this off the internet? It does not make sense to me. What are you trying to say?

Last edited by Denali; 04/22/14 01:08 AM. Reason: Removing quote

BW 58
WH 61
married 35 years
2 adult children
2 grandchildren

"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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@ grace
It isn't my wish to be booted off this invaluable site, therefore I'll with hold my personal philosophies. Sometimes it is better to walk away this includes a bad marriage.


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Originally Posted by mustyrecord
@ grace
It isn't my wish to be booted off this invaluable site, therefore I'll with hold my personal philosophies. Sometimes it is better to walk away this includes a bad marriage.

I'm trying to follow you mustyread. I was not able to follow your insight. Sincerely wanted to understand your input and how it fit in. No attempt on my part to rally moderators to edit you. Moderators are typically trying to keep us focused on content and remind us all to keep to the MB content. In your post, the sentences appeared fragmented as though you'd cut and pasted from a website. Even your comment above is hard for me to put together. The first sentence does not appear to go together with the second sentence. You likely have a lot of insight and I am trying to comprehend your intent.


BW 58
WH 61
married 35 years
2 adult children
2 grandchildren

"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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Sincerest apologies English is not my language and I am using Google translation. I am currently translating the sixth loverbuster and how it relates to phoenix, just give me some time, sorry but I don't speak English very well.


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No worries mustyread. I'm impressed you are making such an effort. Now lets stop this highjack of this thread.


BW 58
WH 61
married 35 years
2 adult children
2 grandchildren

"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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A little background about myself, I was born in South Africa then my parents immigrated to Israel where I worked in IDF behavioral intelligence department. Profiling motives of terrorists needless to say this task was difficult and mentally exhausting since the human mind is complicated and evil! Before going into the army I was a positive young girl; now I feel that my investigations into the human psyche has made me a cautious person.

Phoenix's H's dishonesty serves to his advantage, however he wouldn't interpret it as dishonest since that might make him feel bad about himself its far easier to sweep it all under the rug. In other words his reasoning processes are balancing his desire for personal gain against phoenix's willingness to believe in him as a good person. How is this possible and more importantly how does he deceive his wife? The answer is simple H is a calculating liar, however as weird as this is going to sound when given plenty of time to think over a problem, he is far more likely to come up with an honest answer. Remember deceit and dishonesty can be paired, this is my interpretation of the sixth love buster dishonesty. I am not a positive thinker when it comes to human relationships sincerest apologies to MB moderators.



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...wow. A "calculated liar?"

Mustyrecord...I am impressed with your background/credentials--provided that the only thing we have are words on this forum and therefore that is what we have to take at face value to be true--I find myself a very cautious person as well.

No doubt that my H has a very tumultuous familial and relationship history...added to it, an incredible military background--incredible translates to "extensive mental and physical conditioning"--and has been diagnosed with PTSD.

I am not one to back away from "work" or a challenge, and I am not easily swayed by adversity--I have a military background of my own--but I have to say that "freezing"/silent treatment/stonewalling--or whatever you want to call "not contacting your spouse" does not go over well with me.

The fact remains, that I have clearly communicated my willingness to pursue a FILSIL plan, POJA, and anything else that might save the marriage. I have completed my emotional needs questionnaire as well as fully admitted my faults, made apologies for my lovebusters, and communicated my willingness to take responsibility for what i'm doing to cause conflict.

YET, despite all of this...and despite my H's email communication (only email at this point) in response that includes such phrases as "the marriage is the most important thing," "I am willing to compromise," "I love you," there has been no attempts on his part to reconcile or initiate anything. My ATTEMPTS...get a "courteous" reply (I love you's are the closing, but the body is "rigid and cold") but nothing more.

If I do not contact him, he does not contact me.

I am at a loss...and therefore, have decided to step back and wait.

For some communication at some point? I don't know.
For divorce papers? I don't know.

The silence--ironically--speaks volumes.

But, I fully believe in what everyone's saying about the anger management. I BELIEVE with all my heart he has an ANGER problem and it is INCREDIBLY misplaced upon me. I am at fault for things--FOR SURE, but not for the anger I have received from him (both active and direct as well as passive aggressive) NOR the "freezing" i am getting right now.

I am not sure what to do, so I am not doing anything. I can not imagine that I have "grovel" and "plead guilty" in order to get back in "good graces" with my husband and earn my way back into the marriage and be respected and love. THAT idea, blows my mind. I do not wish to disrespect him or complete lovebusters, and I will own up to and eradicate any that I do create. I find it hard to believe that I must continue to endure his love busters simply because what he believes ive done to him justifies them. I don't know...he is not communicating with me. I am getting nothing.

I makes me incredibly scared that he might be a calculated liar because all we have is the phone right now...and of course our memories of the 6 months we were physically together interacting before he left.

It's amazing how the world can turn upside down when you realize you have no idea who someone is..especially when they are your spouse.

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Sorry for your trauma! My career in the military ended 15 years ago, therefore I am a little rusty in behavioral assessments. ***EDIT***

Last edited by Toujours; 04/22/14 09:26 PM. Reason: TOS: non Marriage Builders advice

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My biggest questions...which I don't feel I got clear direction on in my phone call with the Harleys...is, how long do I wait? Will this silent treatment go on forever? He will be gone for 6 more months. If I don't get communication from him...do I continue to email him...even if its just to say I love you??
You certainly cannot wait 6 months. It would be detrimental to your emotional and physical health.

Tell him you need him to stop the angry outbursts. If he will not, start preparing yourself for a separation.
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I can't make him see that he has an anger management problem...or that his anger is hurting us. He has to want to face it himself.
I can't make him see that stonewalling me is hurting me. He will respond with "well what about me? what about how you're/this is hurting me." Or, he will tell me I am "playing the victim."
What you CAN do is draw a line. You do not need to tolerate his abuse simply because he doesn't see a problem.

Stand up for yourself. Don't allow him to treat you this way. Here is what Dr. Harley says you need to say to him:
Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
I would look him right in the eye and say to him, "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you care at all about how I feel? If you do, you sure have a funny way of showing it! I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you. But it sure will be unpleasant for both of us if you keep treating me this way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"

If he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."

To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. From this moment on you will never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. I will agree to do the same with you. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, even by the man I love."

It may take him a while to digest what you say, and he may leave in a huff. But once it sinks in, he will probably agree with you that at least some of the problem is his.

Angry Outbursts Letter #1

I can tell you that me taking such a stand in my own marriage is one of the reasons I'm still married today. My husband didn't take his angry outbursts seriously until he saw that I wouldn't take it anymore and was willing to move on without him if necessary.


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What to do with an Angry Husband

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I have tried to "love unconditionally" as some sources are telling me...the Christian way...love your spouse just as Jesus loves us...even when we are un-lovable...but I have to say, it is incredibly hard...and I feel its breaking my spirit.
Stop. This does neither you nor your marriage any good.

Please read: What's Wrong with Unconditional Love?


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

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Phoenix I really do care, since we're both passing through the same thing. What I find so valuable with Dr. Harley is his concept of how to win back a partner I find this work legendary.

Dr. Harley writes about the emotional need of physical attractiveness it as important as any of the other emotional needs, in order to identify the love busters ask yourself if you meet his emotional need for physical attractiveness. This had been an issue our marriage due to my obesity.


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"Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you care at all about how I feel? If you do, you sure have a funny way of showing it! I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you. But it sure will be unpleasant for both of us if you keep treating me this way.*Having angry outbursts, silent treatments and selfish demands* You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"

How is it going phoenix? Did you email him the above?

Did you read Prisca's what to do with an angry husband?

NOTHING, and Dr Harley really means Nothing can be resolved or fixed in your marriage until your DH agrees to stop the AO (Angry Outburts).
You have no marriage and no chance until he does.
I wouldn't focus or concentrate on anything else right now except that. No teaching, or emailing of emotional needs or trying to figure out why he said I love you or anything else.

Only: He needs to agree to stop the AO for life.

If he will not-calls you names or gives you more silent treatment: Go into Plan B immediately (which will be easy as he is so far away) Please read about it.


BW-3 Kids
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Divorced

"I was not delivered unto this world in defeat, nor does failure course in my veins. I am not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion and I refuse to talk, to walk, to sleep with the sheep. I will hear not those who weep and complain, for their disease is contagious. Let them join the sheep. The slaughterhouse of failure is not my destiny.
I will persist until I succeed." Og Mandino
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Excellent advice.


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FWW/BW (me)
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Dr. Harley writes about the emotional need of physical attractiveness it as important as any of the other emotional needs, in order to identify the love busters ask yourself if you meet his emotional need for physical attractiveness. This had been an issue our marriage due to my obesity.
This is absolutely pointless as long as his AOs continue. NOTHING short of putting her foot down and saying "no more" has any chance of winning him at this point.

Dr. Harley on AOs:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Early on, I came to recognize that angry outbursts are probably the most damaging thing a spouse can do in marriage. I say this in spite of my recognition that infidelity is also a very damaging behavior. But I'm often more optimistic about the recovery of a marriage that has suffered from infidelity than than recovery of a marriage that suffers from angry outbursts. The primary reason that angry outbursts just about eliminate the hope of marital happiness is that even if they are very infrequent, they prevent a couple from solving their problems because the threat always hangs over every conversation. The first guideline for marital negotiation is to make the discussion pleasant and safe, and an angry spouse fails that very first condition, making the rest of it impossible to implement. Angry spouses simply create an environment that makes it impossible to make marital adjustments. That's why I advise couples with multiple problems that include anger to overcome the anger first, and then focus on the rest of the problems later.


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

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in order to identify the love busters ask yourself if you meet his emotional need for physical attractiveness.
Failing to meet an emotional need is NOT a lovebuster.
She is not at fault for his angry outbursts.


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

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What I find so valuable with Dr. Harley is his concept of how to win back a partner I find this work legendary.
Dr. Harley doesn't usually advise that a wife spend more than 3 weeks trying to win her husband back.


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Thank you Prisca for all your help.
You have given me great advice and I really appreciate you taking the time.

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Originally Posted by phoenix1699
Thank you Prisca for all your help.
You have given me great advice and I really appreciate you taking the time.
So what are you going to do?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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