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The main issue we are having relates to the list my wife made of her top 5 emotional needs. #1 happens to be recreational companionship.

What are the other four top ENs?

Welcome to MB


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Welcome MR/MRS Las vEgas!

I have read thru your thread. I too am at work and would like to respond or give my 2 cents. I have been in a struggle over this exact situation with my husband for 4 years now. In fact the Dr Harley responses already posted on this thread are from my direct questions to him in the private section. It was my husband who would insist he "needed" so much strenuous exercise per week or he was not OK. Anyway, I'd like to write back later when I'm not at work.


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"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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Mr/MrLasVegas,

Although you may not be deeply in an emotional affair, the OM/coach may be or may be a serial cheater who uses his job/hobby to pick up women.

Does OM have a history of seducing women he claims to be "helping", and has the OMs wife been spoken with, she might be able to fill you in on OMs history.

The OM needs to be chased off.

God Bless
Gamma

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Originally Posted by graceful2b
Welcome MR/MRS Las vEgas!

I have read thru your thread. I too am at work and would like to respond or give my 2 cents. I have been in a struggle over this exact situation with my husband for 4 years now. In fact the Dr Harley responses already posted on this thread are from my direct questions to him in the private section. It was my husband who would insist he "needed" so much strenuous exercise per week or he was not OK. Anyway, I'd like to write back later when I'm not at work.


Thank you Graceful, I'm glad that you found this thread. I would be very interested to hear any details about your experience that you can share.

For others who we still owe a response, we're taking a little time to process our thoughts but will get back soon for sure.

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Originally Posted by graceful2b
Welcome MR/MRS Las vEgas!

I have read thru your thread. I too am at work and would like to respond or give my 2 cents. I have been in a struggle over this exact situation with my husband for 4 years now. In fact the Dr Harley responses already posted on this thread are from my direct questions to him in the private section. It was my husband who would insist he "needed" so much strenuous exercise per week or he was not OK. Anyway, I'd like to write back later when I'm not at work.


Yes, thank you! I would really appreciate your insight on how you resolved this within your own marriage. Thank you so much!

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Originally Posted by Gamma
Mr/MrLasVegas,

Although you may not be deeply in an emotional affair, the OM/coach may be or may be a serial cheater who uses his job/hobby to pick up women.

Does OM have a history of seducing women he claims to be "helping", and has the OMs wife been spoken with, she might be able to fill you in on OMs history.

The OM needs to be chased off.

God Bless
Gamma


Hi, thanks for your thoughts, Gamma.

I honestly don't know if uses his job to pick up women. He is single and I could have been one of his many pursuits; I just don't know him or his history well enough to answer that with any conviction, I suppose.

In any case, he has been chased off/contact broken and all of that. :-)

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Originally Posted by black_raven
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The main issue we are having relates to the list my wife made of her top 5 emotional needs. #1 happens to be recreational companionship.

What are the other four top ENs?

Welcome to MB


Hi!

I was having trouble picking between Admiration and Recreation for my number 1, so I put those as one and two with neither actually being labeled as 1 or 2, as I can't decide which is more important.
#3 Financial
#4 Conversation
#5 Affection
#6 Sex (bonus, because I felt this needed to be on the list too)

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Originally Posted by MrsLasVegas
I was having trouble picking between Admiration and Recreation for my number 1, so I put those as one and two with neither actually being labeled as 1 or 2, as I can't decide which is more important.
You do realise that the EN is called "Recreational Companionship", don't you - not "Recreation"?

Do you understand what is meant by Dr H's concept of ENs? These are not merely things that make you happy, but things that make you fall in love with somebody else. "Recreation" done by yourself can't make you fall in love with somebody else, but "recreational companionship" can.

Your passion for several hours a week of intense physical activity is not a marital EN - it does not make you fall in love with your husband.

If you are miserable that your H is unable to do your sport with you, then perhaps RC should be at the top of your list - but not otherwise. Not if you are perfectly happy to do it alone.


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Originally Posted by pokerface
SugarCane your posts are EXCELLENT and it is clear that you put a lot of time and thought into trying to help this couple understand MB concepts. smile


Yes, I totally agree, Pokerface, SugarCane has given me lots to consider.

SugarCane, you have given me so much to think about and consider and I think I need more time to chat with my H on what you've said. Thank you so much for your time and insight. Please keep it coming if you have anymore thoughts. :-)

Someone had also mentioned an addiction to exercise, which is incredibly interesting as well. I think that this thread gives us some discussion points for when we get home, which ultimately is what we were looking for. We have talked this issue to death and needed a new perspective, which is what you were all so generously gave. Thank you!

Any other insights are, of course, welcome, though. Keep 'em coming!

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by MrsLasVegas
I was having trouble picking between Admiration and Recreation for my number 1, so I put those as one and two with neither actually being labeled as 1 or 2, as I can't decide which is more important.
You do realise that the EN is called "Recreational Companionship", don't you - not "Recreation"?

Do you understand what is meant by Dr H's concept of ENs? These are not merely things that make you happy, but things that make you fall in love with somebody else. "Recreation" done by yourself can't make you fall in love with somebody else, but "recreational companionship" can.

Your passion for several hours a week of intense physical activity is not a marital EN - it does not make you fall in love with your husband.

If you are miserable that your H is unable to do your sport with you, then perhaps RC should be at the top of your list - but not otherwise. Not if you are perfectly happy to do it alone.


I think the Mrs. is abbreviating her definitions here, but it's always good to underscore the definitions of the program since we are both new to it.

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Originally Posted by MrLasVegas
I think the Mrs. is abbreviating her definitions here, but it's always good to underscore the definitions of the program since we are both new to it.
Well�I did consider that, but I went ahead and posted because I could see that there was a misunderstanding. It seems to me that if RC were really her top EN, she would want to spend all the time she could with you. If you were unable to cycle or run with her, she would be happy to find something - anything - else, as long as she could be with you. The thing she wanted to do would be much less important than doing something with you.

She clearly has a need for "recreation"; it is her top need to feel happy in herself - but is it a need in order for her to fall and stay in love with you? It does not seem so to me. If she is essentially telling you - as she did here today - that if she can't do her solo activities for several hours a week she will be miserable in her marriage, then those activities are not marital ENs. Her need for "recreation" is not a need for "recreational companionship". If there were a need for the "companionship" side of RC then she'd be desperate for time spent with you.

It's simple, really, as long as you are using the correct definition of an EN. An EN is not a life-support need like air or water. It's about falling and staying in love.


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Have you both read the basic concepts, in the articles section on this site?

You said you'd read "the book"; was this His Needs her Needs? That gives a very clear definition of what is meant by the concept "ENs". Please re-read that section.


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Originally Posted by MrsLasVegas
Someone had also mentioned an addiction to exercise, which is incredibly interesting as well. I think that this thread gives us some discussion points for when we get home, which ultimately is what we were looking for.

I agree that it is an addiction of sorts. When did you start this intense exercise regimen? Do you two plan to have children?

I'm all for exercising but what has been described is extreme. A person can still get an intense workout without it taking hours and hours out of the day.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by MrsLasVegas
I was having trouble picking between Admiration and Recreation for my number 1, so I put those as one and two with neither actually being labeled as 1 or 2, as I can't decide which is more important.
You do realise that the EN is called "Recreational Companionship", don't you - not "Recreation"?

Do you understand what is meant by Dr H's concept of ENs? These are not merely things that make you happy, but things that make you fall in love with somebody else. "Recreation" done by yourself can't make you fall in love with somebody else, but "recreational companionship" can.

Your passion for several hours a week of intense physical activity is not a marital EN - it does not make you fall in love with your husband.

If you are miserable that your H is unable to do your sport with you, then perhaps RC should be at the top of your list - but not otherwise. Not if you are perfectly happy to do it alone.



I was using condensed variations of the words for the sake of timeliness, but you made an interesting point. Maybe I don't need RC from my H. It does not make me miserable that he does not ride with me. No love units are lost when I set out on my own. I am totally happy cycling and practicing yoga by myself which is why I try to schedule it during the week when he is working so we have time to spend together on the weekends.

So maybe I've been approaching this incorrectly, so please help me out on this. Maybe the guidepost that I need to use for my EM's (which btw seem to change every few days. I'm having a hard time nailing down a firm list) should be "does this make me fall in love with you?" I was approaching it from a perspective of "what could I not live without" and recreation/exercise is at the top of my list, but perhaps not RC as it is designed to be interpreted and applied.

Now I'm so confused ...

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Originally Posted by pokerface
SugarCane your posts are EXCELLENT and it is clear that you put a lot of time and thought into trying to help this couple understand MB concepts. smile
I totally agree. Not much to add, she has it covered.

Thanks Sugar!!!


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Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by MrsLasVegas
Someone had also mentioned an addiction to exercise, which is incredibly interesting as well. I think that this thread gives us some discussion points for when we get home, which ultimately is what we were looking for.

I agree that it is an addiction of sorts. When did you start this intense exercise regimen? Do you two plan to have children?

I'm all for exercising but what has been described is extreme. A person can still get an intense workout without it taking hours and hours out of the day.


I've always been incredibly active. I've rock climbed since before I could walk. Summer vacations were spent hiking and backpacking for weeks at a time. Spring Breaks involved camping and fishing. In high school, I was gymnast, played softball and my dad and I used to go on long trail runs on the weekends. Not being incredibly active is so foreign to me that I have no idea how that even looks and how that applies to my life if were to disappear. It is incredibly scary for me to try to imagine my life without all of that activity, but even worse imagining it without my husband. So that is why I feel so confused about all of this.

In terms of children, we made the decision early on in our marriage to not have kids. We did not want to share our time with anyone else, including our future kids.

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So it seems like you need to figure out how to make your H your favorite RC and get 15-20 hours of UA.


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Originally Posted by MrsLasVegas
I was using condensed variations of the words for the sake of timeliness, but you made an interesting point. Maybe I don't need RC from my H. It does not make me miserable that he does not ride with me. No love units are lost when I set out on my own. I am totally happy cycling and practicing yoga by myself which is why I try to schedule it during the week when he is working so we have time to spend together on the weekends.

So maybe I've been approaching this incorrectly, so please help me out on this. Maybe the guidepost that I need to use for my EM's (which btw seem to change every few days. I'm having a hard time nailing down a firm list) should be "does this make me fall in love with you?" I was approaching it from a perspective of "what could I not live without" and recreation/exercise is at the top of my list, but perhaps not RC as it is designed to be interpreted and applied.

Now I'm so confused ...
You didn't answer my question about having read the definitions of the concept of ENs, and the ENs themselves.

Here is what Dr Harley says about RC:

The need for recreational companionship combines two needs into one. First, there is the need to be engaged in recreational activities and second, the need to have a companion. To determine if you have this need, first ask yourself if you have a craving for certain recreational activities. Then ask yourself if the activities require a companion for fulfillment. If the answer is yes to both questions, include recreational companionship on your list of emotional needs.

Full article here




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Here is what Dr H says about ENs in marriage.

He says that there are probably thousands of ENs, but the ones he deals with are the most important ones; those that, when met, make you fall in love with the person that meets them.

The most important ENs are the needs that spouses meet for each other. They are not "needs" in an absolute sense, but needs for falling in love.

What is an emotional need? It is a craving that, when satisfied, leaves you with a feeling of happiness and contentment, and, when unsatisfied, leaves you with a feeling of unhappiness and frustration. There are probably thousands of emotional needs. A need for birthday parties, peanut butter sandwiches, Monday Night Football, I could go on and on. Some people have some of those needs while others have different needs. If you feel good doing something, or if someone does something for you that makes you feel good, an emotional need has been met.

But not all emotional needs are created equally. When some are met, you may only feel comfortable--they make small Love Bank deposits. There are others, however, that can make you feel downright euphoric. In fact they make you so happy that you're likely to fall in love with the person that meets them. I call those our most important emotional needs because they make the largest Love Bank deposits of all. And those are the very same emotional needs that a husband and wife expect each other to meet in marriage.

By now you can probably see where I'm headed. My first goal when counseling a couple is to help them identify their most important emotional needs. Once those needs are identified, I help them learn to meet those needs for each other. I want them to make the largest deposits possible into each other's Love Banks. If all goes well, they begin making those large deposits and eventually they are in love with each other.

When I first began using this approach to saving marriages, I didn't know what made people the happiest in marriage -- I didn't know what emotional needs would be the most important. So I had to ask hundreds of men and women that question, "What could your spouse do for you that would make you the happiest?"


Full article here


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
So it seems like you need to figure out how to make your H your favorite RC and get 15-20 hours of UA.


I don't think that UA is a problem for us. We are actually getting to that chapter tonight, so maybe it is, I'll keep you posted. ;-)

We generally spend all weekend doing fun things together. Last weekend, in addition to reading the book together we spent several hours at a local garden getting inspiration for our own yard. Other weekends, we venture to the next town over for lunch, chatting and walking in the park. I feel like our UA time is good and we have added in more UA time each night once he comes home from work. Less TV, more chatting, which I think has helped both of us immensely.

We've agreed that more activities would be better and are expanding on what we generally do together. We've talked about taking up tennis again and maybe adding in golf into our rotation of activities, as well as adding in more cultural/social events which we both enjoy, but never seek out. For me spending UA time with him is amazing and I look forward to the weekends when we can be together without the demands of work.

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