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I don't own the book Surviving an Affair, but I'm planning to read it as soon as I'm finished with His Needs, Her Needs - I'm 40% done. Hosea, I would put that book aside for now. That is exactly the WRONG book to be reading right now. I'm getting my ducks in a row (proof) before I expose. According to your first post, you have evidence of her affair. The other woman is married. Their relationship became physical (kissing and heavy petting - but they both claim it stopped there). My wife had always been honest to a fault before meeting this other woman - and suddenly she became secretive and deceptive. The above is your evidence so all you need to do is expose the affair at this point. If you read the exposure linked in my signature, you will find best practices and exposure templates.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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If I already threatened in February to end the relationship due to the affair - and she was willing to let me end it and emotionally divorced me, and she has already prepped her friends that I'm "jealous" of her "friendship" with the other woman, how is exposure at this point effective? I've already screwed up.
Additionally, she's starting to show signs of improvement. She has also been hurt by me thru emotional abuse and my own emotional affairs. (I have completely cut off all contact with other women and I am 100% devoted to my wife.) My wife, though, is living in the past and refuses to acknowledge the changes.
So, please, let me table the exposure point *for now*. I firmly believe that if I move to that step at this juncture, that I'll lose her forever and for good. She is already at the point where she doesn't trust me, doesn't believe anything I say and has faced threats from me that I'll "ruin her reputation" by exposure.
If I step back and expose at this point, everything that has been gained will be lost. I am still in the period of showing her unconditional love - as Plan A suggests.
She has also been reading a book called "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft that basically teaches that only men can be emotional abusers and that "tactics" of the emotional abuser are to threaten to expose, to ruin reputations, to gather allies against her and to use unconditional love for the purpose of "getting her back under his thumb of control".
Right now, she is recoiling from me because she perceives me to be controlling and abusive. If I expose now, it simply plays into her (mistaken) belief that I want to control her.
There will come a time for exposure - but right now, I'm trusting in the Lord and showing her the love of Christ through me until her defenses are softened and she once more *cares* whether I leave her or not. (Right now, she's steeled and prepared for it to happen, so it will have little effect - and she'll simply use it as further reason to nurse her grudge against me.)
Last night we snuggled for most of the night. Although she didn't tell me she loved me this morning when I said it, she told me twice yesterday. She also accepted my affection and didn't withdraw from it.
I will read the book you suggest - but time is on my side. The longer her relationship with the other woman continues in this state, the more likely it is to erode and collapse. She is not moving closer to this other woman - and she is moving closer to me.
Last edited by Hosea1968; 06/10/14 11:06 AM.
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Is there any chance you were on Dr. Harley's Marriage Builders radio show last week? I seem to remember hearing a caller whose situation was similar to yours.
Have you read the Basic Concepts here on this site?
Do you own the book Surviving an Affair? Sorry. I thought I got all of them. I didn't send anything or post anything before my first post in this thread - I wasn't on the radio show. I have just been reading the Basic Concepts. I'm just now digesting the details. I don't own the book Surviving an Affair, but I'm planning to read it as soon as I'm finished with His Needs, Her Needs - I'm 40% done. Prisca, I completely understand that the emotional affair is just as damaging. I completely agree that she needs to walk away from this unwholesome relationship ASAP. I'm getting my ducks in a row (proof) before I expose. I would definitely suggest moving immediately to Surviving an Affair and wait on His Needs, Her Needs. Thanks for the answer about the radio show - if that was you, I wanted to go back and review what Dr. Harley had said to you.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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If I already threatened in February to end the relationship due to the affair - and she was willing to let me end it and emotionally divorced me, and she has already prepped her friends that I'm "jealous" of her "friendship" with the other woman, how is exposure at this point effective? I've already screwed up. Exposure is effective for a whole host of reasons. Her feelings change radically from moment to moment. Everyone in an affair is in what Dr. Harley says psychologists call a "double approach avoidance conflict." They ping pong back and forth: when they are with the affair partner, the affair partner's negatives are magnified and they wish they were with their spouse. But when they are with their spouse, their spouse's negatives are magnified and they wish they were with their affair partner. Exposure provides a dose of sobering reality. It hastens whatever is going to happen anyway to minimize the damage to you and your family.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Hosea, You are putting the cart before the horse. Exposure is not a weapon to be put in reserve for a later date if needed. It is The first step towards killing the affair and recovery. THEN you go to Plan A. The longer you wait, the more entrenched her affair will be become. The sooner you expose, the sooner you can start recovery. If I step back and expose at this point, everything that has been gained will be lost. I am still in the period of showing her unconditional love - as Plan A suggests.
...
Right now, she is recoiling from me because she perceives me to be controlling and abusive. If I expose now, it simply plays into her (mistaken) belief that I want to control her. We have heard this before, hundreds of times. There is nothing unique with your wayward wife, nor her affair. She will be angry at exposure, but they all are. Your marriage can survive her anger. It cannot survive her continuing in this affair.
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There will come a time for exposure - but right now, I'm trusting in the Lord and showing her the love of Christ through me until her defenses are softened and she once more *cares* whether I leave her or not. Would it mean anything if we told you that we've heard hundreds of people say this and it always leads to failure? Exposing her affair IS loving her. You love her enough to take drastic action to try to prevent her from ruining her life. It is like turning in a drug addict son to the police. She will not start caring about you until quite some time AFTER exposure. It is the FIRST step to initiate the process of recovery.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Delayed exposure is less effective - this is pretty much the only tool you have to stop her addiction. If you wait, you will have no tools at all, and the addiction will have done untold damage.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Dr. Harley provides some free help here on his radio show: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.htmlWe have heard your story numerous times, I am very sad to say. We know how it plays out, and we are recommending you take the path that is most likely to lead to success.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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"So, please, let me table the exposure point *for now*. I firmly believe that if I move to that step at this juncture, that I'll lose her forever and for good. She is already at the point where she doesn't trust me, doesn't believe anything I say and has faced threats from me that I'll "ruin her reputation" by exposure. "
Hosea, this step needs to come first, not last. Otherwise you are pushing a car up the hill with parking brake on. The longer you avoid this step, the more entrenched the affair becomes and hrs less likely you will be to save your marriage. This affair could have been killed a long time ago if you would have exposed FIRST.
By keeping her affair secret, you only ENABLE it because affairs thrive on secrecy. You can't save a marriage when you are an enabler.
So we need you to do that immediately or you will lose your wife to an affair.
Exposure is the most effective, therapeutic thing you can do for your marriage. You can't afford to skip it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I just want to point out that your own methods have not worked for you and I believe God sent you to us for a reason: to save your marriage. But we can't help you if you continue to follow your own path.
"If I step back and expose at this point, everything that has been gained will be lost. I am still in the period of showing her unconditional love - as Plan A suggests. "
The most important part of plan a is EXPOSURE. You are not doing plan a, you are doing Plan Hosea, which will lead you to divorce. The longer you follow this bad plan the harder it will be to help you.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I'm researching Plan A and B now... This is why I'm focusing on showing her unconditional love right now: Unless plan A leaves the wayward s spouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder." I'm trying to create that place where she finds it attractive to return home. Right now, she isn't in that place. She would rather that I not be there. Thus, implementing exposure (which would force a Plan B situation with her) would only serve to drive her away from me at this point.
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Exposure does not force a Plan B. Nobody can force you into Plan B. In fact, since you are a man, it is very unlikely you will need Plan B for quite some time. Here is what Dr. Harley says about exposure: "Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery." Exposure is the very first step.
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I'm trying to create that place where she finds it attractive to return home. Right now, she isn't in that place. She would rather that I not be there. Thus, implementing exposure (which would force a Plan B situation with her) would only serve to drive her away from me at this point. You have this backwards. The affair is pushing her away and you are enabling it. By keeping the affair a secret, you are fueling it. You are enabling it. This is tantamount to pushing a car up the hill with the parking brake on. Exposure is an essential part of Plan A. It can't be skipped. All of the "unconditional love" in the world cannot compensate for your enabling. We can't help you if you won't expose the affair.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What about this as a starting point for the negotiation of Step A? It has been four months since our relationship came to a head and our lives were thrown into chaos. In that time, we have gone back and forth over various subjects. Accusations and blame have been tossed about and for that I am truly sorry.
I take responsibility for the way that I have treated you and neglected you and to the emotional abuse that I have subjected you to. I make no excuses for my attitudes, actions or behavior.
In the intervening time, I have worked hard to adjust my attitudes, actions and behavior. I have visited counselors and shared with them openly about my faults and failings. They have helped immensely. I feel as though I�m a different man entirely.
I have also identified many of the reasons why you have sought emotional support in others and why you have chosen to rescind emotional connection with me. Through this time I have made concerted efforts to show you how much I love you and how much you mean to me. In order to save our marriage and our relationship, I have made many drastic changes in my life. I have done it for you, because I love you, because I want our marriage to work and because you and our relationship mean more to me than anything else.
Twenty-five years ago, I promised you that I would love you for better or worse, in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad. I promised to inspire you and to be loyal to you. I swore this oath and vow before God � and I made this vow to God about you � not to you. That�s important because no matter what course of action our lives take, my vow is not dependent on anything earthly � it is given to God and is between God and me. I am committed to you, to love you and to cherish you, until I draw my last breath.
We have seven beautiful, amazing, delightful children who depend on us, who need to see a strong, vibrant and loving marriage where husband and wife are devoted to one another and forsake all others. They need to see us united in life, love and happiness. They need to see us stand as a unit, as one-flesh � and they need to see that we don�t let anyone else into that treasured bond. As Ecclesiastes says, with God, we are the three-strand cord (Eccl 4:12) that cannot be broken.
But right now, we are not that three-strand cord. We are divided. There is someone else in between us. And that person needs to leave get out of our lives. Our marriage, our relationship and our love are in jeopardy because of their influence and involvement in our lives.
You have told me that you feel a need to be strong for your friend because she�s in a tight place with her husband and her own marriage. You told me that without you, you believe she would find a different solution. You have also told me that you feel close, sisterly affection for her.
At this point, she has many friends who can support her. She has many friends who will help her in her difficulty. She doesn�t need you. You are not the support that she needs � in fact, you are enraging her husband, which is the root of her difficulties.
You also don�t need to take the responsibility to be someone else�s support at the expense of your vow to God and your promises to me. I know that loyalty is important to you � but your first and foremost loyalty is to your marriage and to your children. And at this point, her husband is a loose cannon who is threatening you and your children in addition to her. The only wise and safe course of action is to end the friendship and association completely.
This is my point. You have had a physical affair with her in the past and you are currently enmeshed in an emotional affair with her. You spend more time talking to her than you do with me. You neglect our relationship, our family and our children to pursue your relationship with her. You are addicted to her.
You sought out her friendship and support because you didn�t have many other friends � but now you have a lot of friends.
You sought out her emotional support because you didn�t get that from me because I was too busy and focused on my second job.
You continue your emotional relationship with her because you are afraid that I�ll revert back to my former behavior and leave you in the emotional cold.
Let me assure you that won�t happen. I am promising you � making a vow to God and a promise to you � that I shall not revert to abandoning you emotionally. I am committing to make myself available to you a minimum of 15 hours a week � and will happily offer you more time than that � for the rest of our lives.
I am awakened to the fact that we must be devoted to one another and focused on each other more than to any other relationship � and that was part of my failing before.
I love you and I do not want us to be apart. I want us to have a healthy, happy, loving relationship. Toward that end, I need you to end your relationship, friendship and association with her. It will hurt a little now, but you have many friends you can turn to and you can also begin rebuilding our relationship.
Before, I asked you to end the relationship with threats and anger. I disrespected you and treated you unfairly. I apologize for that and I will not treat you that way again. I am asking that you look at the situation, realize that our 25 years together, our seven children, our vows to God to remain faithful together, our responsibility to our children, our family, our friends and our community to showcase a strong and vibrant relationship far outweigh the value of associating with her.
You told me to tell you my needs and to tell you what I want and need from you:
I need your undivided love and affection, focused exclusively upon me � and I promise to show you my undivided love and affection, focused exclusively upon you. This is marriage. This is a healthy marriage. This is what I promise you.
I love you.
Last edited by Hosea1968; 06/10/14 03:38 PM.
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If you want her to desire your marriage then you need to remove the obstacle of the affair. You are trying to "attract" someone who is under the influence of heroin. In order to be successful, you must FIRST remove the heroin or she will be too high to value your offer. With adultery, you must do everything to kill the affair so she will want the marriage.
The way you kill the affair is by exposing it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What about this as a starting point for the negotiation of Step A? It has been four months since our relationship came to a head and our lives were thrown into chaos. In that time, we have gone back and forth over various subjects. Accusations and blame have been tossed about and for that I am truly sorry.
I take responsibility for the way that I have treated you and neglected you and to the emotional abuse that I have subjected you to. I make no excuses for my attitudes, actions or behavior.
In the intervening time, I have worked hard to adjust my attitudes, actions and behavior. I have visited counselors and shared with them openly about my faults and failings. They have helped immensely. I feel as though I�m a different man entirely.
I have also identified many of the reasons why you have sought emotional support in others and why you have chosen to rescind emotional connection with me. Through this time I have made concerted efforts to show you how much I love you and how much you mean to me. In order to save our marriage and our relationship, I have made many drastic changes in my life. I have done it for you, because I love you, because I want our marriage to work and because you and our relationship mean more to me than anything else.
Twenty-five years ago, I promised you that I would love you for better or worse, in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad. I promised to inspire you and to be loyal to you. I swore this oath and vow before God � and I made this vow to God about you � not to you. That�s important because no matter what course of action our lives take, my vow is not dependent on anything earthly � it is given to God and is between God and me. I am committed to you, to love you and to cherish you, until I draw my last breath.
We have seven beautiful, amazing, delightful children who depend on us, who need to see a strong, vibrant and loving marriage where husband and wife are devoted to one another and forsake all others. They need to see us united in life, love and happiness. They need to see us stand as a unit, as one-flesh � and they need to see that we don�t let anyone else into that treasured bond. As Ecclesiastes says, with God, we are the three-strand cord (Eccl 4:12) that cannot be broken.
But right now, we are not that three-strand cord. We are divided. There is someone else in between us. And that person needs to leave get out of our lives. Our marriage, our relationship and our love are in jeopardy because of their influence and involvement in our lives.
You have told me that you feel a need to be strong for your friend because she�s in a tight place with her husband and her own marriage. You told me that without you, you believe she would find a different solution. You have also told me that you feel close, sisterly affection for her.
At this point, she has many friends who can support her. She has many friends who will help her in her difficulty. She doesn�t need you. You are not the support that she needs � in fact, you are enraging her husband, which is the root of her difficulties.
You also don�t need to take the responsibility to be someone else�s support at the expense of your vow to God and your promises to me. I know that loyalty is important to you � but your first and foremost loyalty is to your marriage and to your children. And at this point, her husband is a loose cannon who is threatening you and your children in addition to her. The only wise and safe course of action is to end the friendship and association completely.
This is my point. You have had a physical affair with her in the past and you are currently enmeshed in an emotional affair with her. You spend more time talking to her than you do with me. You neglect our relationship, our family and our children to pursue your relationship with her. You are addicted to her.
You sought out her friendship and support because you didn�t have many other friends � but now you have a lot of friends.
You sought out her emotional support because you didn�t get that from me because I was too busy and focused on my second job.
You continue your emotional relationship with her because you are afraid that I�ll revert back to my former behavior and leave you in the emotional cold.
Let me assure you that won�t happen. I am promising you � making a vow to God and a promise to you � that I shall not revert to abandoning you emotionally. I am committing to make myself available to you a minimum of 15 hours a week � and will happily offer you more time than that � for the rest of our lives.
I am awakened to the fact that we must be devoted to one another and focused on each other more than to any other relationship � and that was part of my failing before.
I love you and I do not want us to be apart. I want us to have a healthy, happy, loving relationship. Toward that end, I need you to end your relationship, friendship and association with her. It will hurt a little now, but you have many friends you can turn to and you can also begin rebuilding our relationship.
Before, I asked you to end the relationship with threats and anger. I disrespected you and treated you unfairly. I apologize for that and I will not treat you that way again. I am asking that you look at the situation, realize that our 25 years together, our seven children, our vows to God to remain faithful together, our responsibility to our children, our family, our friends and our community to showcase a strong and vibrant relationship far outweigh the value of associating with her.
You told me to tell you my needs and to tell you what I want and need from you:
I need your undivided love and affection, focused exclusively upon me � and I promise to show you my undivided love and affection, focused exclusively upon you. This is marriage. This is a healthy marriage. This is what I promise you.
I love you. It is a nice letter but not appropriate for a spouse in an affair. It just tells me you don't understand the mentality of a wayward. You are trying to reason with a wayward.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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We can't help you if you won't follow the program, my friend. If you are here to blog your own personal plan, you are wasting your time and ours.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I was sending that to you to ask for your critique and what I should do to change it.
If you have suggestions, I'm very open to what I need to do to change it. That's why I posted it.
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Plan A says to attempt a negotiation before exposure. That's the point of this - attempting negotiation. If she agrees to end the affair (unlikely) then I don't need to expose. If she rejects this "olive branch" then I have followed the plan and my next course is exposure. (I've already started gathering contact information for the friends and family of everyone involved.)
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I will not crtique the letter because it is not part of the plan.
You are not following the marriage builders plan, which has proven successful time and time again. You are creating your own plan, and the odds of it succeeding are small.
We cannot help you if you will not follow the plan.
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