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Been awhile...but I wanted to paste in what I believe is another "notable post" by Doormatnomore (formerly Barnboy) made today to a BH (Patriot) shortly after he exposed his wife's affair. The affair came crashing down and OM chewed her out and ended it. She called Patriot begging to come home, end her affair and TRY to salvage their marriage. Despite saying some really hurtful things to Patriot yesterday upon the discovery that she'd been exposed (all WS's go ballistic upon exposure) she APPEARS to now be willing to try and recovery their marriage after months of carrying on a physical affair.

Here's what Doormat had to say (I highlighted in red a particularly accurate statement that I, too, experience]:

Originally Posted by Doormatnomore
@patriot45,

I hope you don't mind me chiming in again.

When she comes back, you have just one job: be the husband she needs.

* PROTECT HER from your anger, disrespect, and demands by learning to say "This conversation isn't safe for me right now. I'd love to talk later." Walk away and do something else if that happens.

* PROTECT YOURSELF from her anger, disrespect, and demands by learning to say "This conversation isn't safe for me right now. I'd love to talk later. Walk away and do something else if that happens.

* MEET HER NEEDS, particularly affection and conversation, by asking "How can I help you?" and "How do you feel if...?" questions, as well as demonstrating physical affection and finding ways to show her you are always thinking about her.

* INVITE HER TO MEET YOUR NEEDS using thoughtful requests and respectful persuasion. Frame each request or persuasion attempt in your mind using "How would you feel about..." or "I'd love it if..." questions/statements that avoid use of the word "YOU" anywhere in them. Think "I'd love it if we could find a way to meet my need for openness & honesty together", or "How would you feel about taking a few days off work so we can be together?" Don't expect a lot of results for several weeks or months, though, until her addiction wears off.

* SPEND UNINTERRUPTED TIME TOGETHER, a bare minimum of 15 hours per week (but shoot for 30!). Ensure during this time you are giving one another undivided attention without distractions. This may mean booking flights together if she goes out of town from now on (and finding a nanny), or coming to a mutually-enthusiastic agreement of a change in her job responsibilities to avoid spending overnights away from you ever again.

* BE HONEST with her about your feelings in a non-judgmental way. "I'm sad today because I'm thinking about all that has happened" or "I am happy you are home."

* REWARD HER HONESTY by learning to say "Thank you for being honest" while not allowing yourself to become defensive even if her honesty sounds accusatory. Do not interrupt to correct her, and practice expressing how her accusations make you feel rather than stating why they are wrong.

* ESTABLISH EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS to prevent recidivism, as recommended in "Surviving An Affair". Discover the real reasons the affair happened. Hint: none of the real reasons will blame you. They will all deal with her, her feelings, and her own precautions, or possibly joint precautions. Part of those EPs, though, is complete and radical honesty with you for the rest of her life... enforced through whatever technological or process changes you think are appropriate to make sure you know even when she doesn't want you to know.

Remember those EPs include your full access to every password, every account, every mailing, any and every piece of information that you need to reassure yourself she's not having another affair. Complete, absolute transparency. Remind her it's not a punishment, but a way to fill your emotional need for openness & honesty.

* EXPECT APPROACH-AVOIDANCE. She may have the attraction/repulsion dynamic going on here, wanting to be with you when she's away from you, and wanting to be away from you when she's with you. Figure out what repulses her -- probably Love Busters -- and find ways to remedy them together.

Remember always that she is totally responsible for how you feel about her, and you are totally responsible for how she feels about you. You cannot change your own feelings toward her: she must. She cannot change her own feelings toward you: you must. Treat that as a sacred responsibility to nurse her back to health after these horrible, tragic events occurred. They happened completely due to her own decisions, but she needs time to heal, nonetheless.

Expect withdrawal.

To sum up again:
* PROTECTION
* CARE
* TIME
* HONESTY
* EXCLUSIVE NEED-MEETING
* POJA

Expect her honesty to grow with time, and for her to have some difficulty talking about things at first. Remember that EVERY conversation about the affair has a cost in Love Units withdrawn when she accesses that memory bank. Plan to keep such conversations to a minimum. It's helpful to write down your questions and plan to discuss them at a certain time on a certain day each week so you can keep those Love Unit Withdrawals to a minimum. Avoid "Why" questions, if you have them, and focus on "What", "When", "Where", and "With Whom" questions, because "Why" questions can be answered by understanding Love Bank balances, exclusive need-meeting, and independent behavior + dishonesty being requirements for conducting an affair.

Good luck, bro. We're here.
_________________________
Doormat_No_More (Formerly Barnboy)
Story for now (original lost in the Great MarriageBuilders Forum Purge of '09.)

* Her: FWW35, Me: FBH36
* 4 kids: DD14, DS12, DS8, DS6
* WW EA 01/09 thru 08/09.
* D-day 03/09, final D-Day 07/28/09 after proof via VAR.
* Found MarriageBuilders 08/01/09. "Plan Doormat" March through July, Plan A in August.
* NC sent. In recovery 08/25/09. Recovery is hard.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

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Mr. Wondering, thank you for both the quote by Joseph Campbell and the last post. I really appreciated them. ^_^
-=Phoenix


-= Phoenix
I am BW-25
WH-27
Married since 7/07
A from 1/09-7/09

"One can't complain. I have my friends. Someone spoke to me only yesterday."-Eeyore
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You have no idea how this post helped me
I keep asking myself what does she have that I don't
I keep myself up I keep a nice home.
He seen someone that worked where he did me moved out for 3 months came back 8 months ago...
I have said No contact
he has sent her jokes I know that weather they are emailing from work I don't know
I knew he isn't seeing her he is home all the time even if he is running 5 min late from work he will call me says he doesn't want me thinking anything is going on.
He changed jobs 2 moths after coming back home..
so no longer works where she does...
He is trying really hard it seems but will still send on jokes to her
I don't know what to do about this he doesn't know I know this...
happens once or twice a month...
we don't have sex that bothers me a great deal but have to say he does have trouble in that since his heart attack
I do know he tried Viagra while gone from here the PI I had told me that... He had sent for some in the mail...
He says he loves me and I had to adopted my grand daughter who is 5 and loves him a great deal looks at him as daddy
she was a mess when he was gone....
So I am doing my best here to work this out and save us all...
And your post made me feel much better
Thank You

Last edited by sunshine4848; 02/25/10 11:04 AM.
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You are welcome sunshine. I'm glad this thread helped you.

I wanted to post today to park a link here that I reference often on the board.*

*I know some of the links earlier in this thread don't work anymore but this one is much newer and should work, at least, until the next upgrade.

The topic is self-explanatory. It's a discussion regarding the often difficult to define term "boundaries" versus manipulation and control.

BOUNDARIES VS. MANIPULATION/CONTROL - An Open Discussion

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Longhorn,

I would only really add one thing, and I'm not sure where i'd put it in there... That's to never make a promise right after dday, and to control your speech as much as you are able. One of the mistakes I made right after i found out was making what I call "schizo-promises". Promise one thing, take it back and promise another... Just a thought...

CV


Celtic Voyager
Married 22+ years
3 young adult children


"A story of me"
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A thread about Extraordinary Precautions (including extraordinary precautions as a part of the concept of "Just Compensation")

[u]Extraordinary Precautions[/u] by HerPapaBear

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Here's a post SunnyDinTX made in the recovery forum 9 months after she used exposure to quickly turn things around in her situation. From her signature line she had endured 6 months of hell not knowing what to do. Sure she "stayed calm" but until she got to the root of the problem...getting the truth about her life and THEN "busting up the affair" she didn't have a chance.

Me(45) WH (42)
Married - 20 yrs
Daughter (19)
Son (17)
Son (15)
Bomb 4/29/10 (ILYBNILWY)
EA Discovery: 6/15/10
New Beg. weekend 7/30/10
Discovered EA not ended - turned PA (physical Affair) 10/10/10
(PA was 3-4 months, EA was 7-8 months)
Confronted H - he left 10/15
Exposed A 10/17
A busted! 10/19
H moved back home 11/20
Recovery going well with MB at home


Please note that after 6 months of trying to do this on her own and even going to a "new beginnings" weekend seminar in August, 2010...nothing worked [her WH was merely appeasing her while he "cake ate" dragging out both the marriage and the affair]. She was spinning her wheels until she really took control of the situation. Got the truth about the affair on Oct. 10, 2010. Kicked her husband out on Oct. 15th, started a thread on MB on Oct 16th, took the advice she received and quickly exposed the affair to friends and family (including OW's friends and family) on Oct 17 and by Oct 19th, 2010 the affair was OVER.

It took a few weeks of negotiation and WH was ready to commit to finally working a marital recovery program and he moved back home on November 20, 2010 (and important event in itself as privately she was getting advice to punish her WH and make him wait/suffer until after the holidays before "allowing" him back home - separation only makes recovery harder and it's hard enough in the first place).

Anyway...here's her first post on Recovery which also links back to her original thread on the Surviving an Affair forum.


Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX 8/28/2011
It was suggested I do a recovery thread since H and I are now into 9 months of recovery in the MB at home program. This is the *short* version. OK, so, not so short - but shorter than reading through my whole thread in the SAA forum. crazy

After 19+ years of marriage my husband up and told me in April 2010 that he was no longer in love with me. He claimed there was no one else, and that he knew he would never have "those feelings" for me again. Thankfully, I had read (years ago) James Dobson's book, Love Must be Tough - a GREAT book about the psychology of relationships and what to do and not do in marital crisis. Because of this, I was able to respond appropriately to H's bomb and NOT react emotionally. This was key, I feel, in eventually reconciling. Dr. Harley's works are a lot more specific in dealing with all of this, but Dobson helped me get the tough love mindset, being that I had no knowledge of Dr. Harley's works at the time.

Needless to say, I was shell-shocked by this bomb. It came out of nowhere for me at the time. In hindsight, I should've seen the warning signs that something was amiss. I immediately went to work on myself. Unknowingly I was in Plan A in MB terms. I did this for several months and even went back to school to finish my degree.

At the beginning of June, I discovered a very sexual text message H sent to me by mistake that was supposed to go to OW! Now, I had searched and searched for proof that there was someone else prior to this, but found nothing concrete. I'd seen some facebook messages I didn't like, but nothing incriminating. I immediately confronted H about it. He stated it was nothing - that it didn't matter anyway because he was planning on leaving. Basically, I said, "there's the door." I thought at the time because I'd stood tall against having a third party in my marriage and told him he was free to go and he chose not to, that he was ready to work on saving our marriage and give it a chance. I started counseling. He went once. That should've spoke to me louder than it did at the time.

At the end of July, we went to a "save your marriage" workshop held by New Beginnings. He didn't want to go but supposedly was working on the marriage at the time, so he grudgingly went with some pushing from our 3 kids. At the end of it, he was still unwilling to commit to the future of our relationship. Once again, I told him he was free to go if he wanted out and was not willing to look for hope that we could have a better life. Once again, he chose not to go. I was fortunate that New Beginnings uses a lot of Harley's works, including Fall In Love, Stay in Love.

After that, I started seeing some small improvements in H's behavior. He wasn't "back" but he was trying. Well, I now realize he was trying only so I wouldn't make him leave. He was torn. He didn't want to leave his kids and didn't want to be the bad guy by leaving me, but he was entangled in an affair. I found that out the beginning of October. (NEVER ignore that gut feeling and gather every bit of intel you can!)

Once I'd gathered the proof I needed, I confronted H about the OW. A big fight ensued and I gave him an ultimatum: end the affair, commit to saving the marriage, or go. He left. Within 2 days I exposed the affair to our 3 children (late teens) and found information on the OW and exposed to her husband's brother and sister-in-law and others I'd found on facebook. (I could not get direct contact info on the OWH.) H was LIVID, needless to say. I got text messages, emails, and phone calls that made my hair stand on end!!! However, within days the affair ended. H wanted to go to counseling. Then he said he wanted to work things out. After much discussion and boundaries set, H moved back home late November. We are now happily reconciling using the Marriage Builders at home program. LOVE it! There are challenges, for sure, but it is well worth it and I couldn't ask for things to be going better at this point.

I truly believe there were many keys to me maintaining my sanity and ability to lead us back from the brink of divorce:

#1: God gave me strength I never thought I could have. I prayed A LOT and read a lot of scripture that was very fortifying and encouraging.

#2: God put people in my life to provide support. It took some hand-holding to get through exposure, and the people here at MB were vital to me! Also, I got "real life" support through friends. I didn't tell everyone I know, but a few key friends I knew were pro-marriage and had my best interests at heart.

#3: I took care of myself and my kids. I took a hard look at what H had to say were my faults and realized some of those were true and I needed to change. I did and still am. I started taking better care of myself physically - exercising and eating right. I had heart to hearts with my 3 kids about what I needed to improve in my relationships with them. I became a more positive person. I also went to the doctor and was put on a very mild anti-depressant (short-term) to help me cope.

#4: Getting a life of my own helped give me the confidence I needed to overcome my feelings of how to react in my situation: to do what was best instead of how I felt - and overcome my fears in doing so. It also helped me start realizing my own self worth again!

#5: I absorbed the information from the forums and books. I thought it all through and employed what I felt best for my marriage. Harley's program made sense to me. Mainly, I think the principles I hung on to were that respect is at the bottom of every relationship. If you don't respect yourself, your spouse will not either. If your spouse does not respect you, he or she cannot love you!

I think "tough love" is also at the basis for every good method of dealing with all of this. You have to be tough - to hold your spouse accountable and maintain the line of self respect. However, you also have to be loving: anything you do that is mean, vindictive, or out of anger and lashing out is counter-productive. Finding the balance is HARD at times! Someone once called it being a "quiet warrior." I like that term. If you follow the plan and get good advice, it helps you find that balance.

If you are dealing with infidelity, you simply CAN NOT save your marriage with the 3rd person in it! You must get rid of that person in order to begin recovery of any sorts. Thus, you have to let go, set your spouse free, and by all means, expose the affair if it will do any good in your situation to end it. (I say the if part in that last sentence because this HAS to be done in the right way.) I was very fortunate to have someone lead me through this process step by step and others holding my hand while I did so.

Lastly, whatever you do, you must have WISE counsel throughout it all. Not all therapists are equal and not all advice is equal. Another must - getting past your fears of pushing your partner further away in the most trying circumstances. It's not for sissies! If you just look for people who tell you what you want to hear instead of what you need to hear, you'll never make it.

I'm sure after writing this I'll think of 10 other things to say. If you have any questions, let me know - I'm glad to help others through this very tough time.

If you are interested in more specifics, you can find them on my thread, here: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2435323#Post2435323


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

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Thank you for this , I have no idea how old it is, but I really needed to hear this.


BW -me 57
Ex-WH-him 62
Married 32 years
2 grown children
D-Day 06-08-2014
D-Day #2 07-11-2014 asked WH not to come home.
In Plan B as of 7-28-14
D-Final 7-23-15
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Dear sirs,

I have been having an issue with the exposure aspect. In your posts you indicate that exposure is required to bust up an active affair. What happens with an affair that has already been busted? What then?

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nacho, you should take this question to your thread on Surviving an Affair. This is just an announcement thread and is not manned.

The answer to your question is that all affairs should be exposed even if the affair has ended. Please read through Dr Harley's "When Should an Affair be Exposed" thread. here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thank you for answering in both threads MelodyLane - I really appreciate it.

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