I have recently been crushed by the news that my wife doesn't "love" me in a romantic way and hasn't for 8 years. We have only been married for 7 years. I guess we thought getting married would fix it. Then we thought moving from an apartment to a nice house would fix it. Then we thought a child would fix it (we have a wonderful 2 year old daughter). I'm not completely oblivious. I knew we had problems, and I knew she was missing the "spark". But I just thought that meant it wasn't quite as exciting as it was in the beginning. I thought that's just what couples who survive the long haul deal with. We have had our heads in the sand for far too long. She finally had to tell me how she feels. She doesn't believe it's fixable. I am crushed. I have lost 7 pounds in 4 days, and I only weight ~150.

But in the week or so since I found out, I have found this website, Dr. Hadley's books and this community. It is like he can read my mind, so obviously we're not the first to go through this. We don't fight a ton (more than we'd want, to be sure). We generally enjoy doing things together, without distractions, but that almost never happens anymore, and it has been lacking for as long as I can remember. After reading the concept of the LB, LD, and LW, it makes perfect sense that we have fallen apart. I believe again that I didn't make a mistake marrying her, we have just mismanaged our marriage. There's no one on Earth I could have married and be perfectly happy with right now if we'd followed the same path.

When I first started looking for help, I assumed you couldn't "manufacture" love. I just thought it was something that happens, and you just have to be with the right person for it to last. I am learning that I have been wrong. But my worry is the length of time she has been missing this love. Is 8 years too much to overcome?

Right now she is not optimistic that it can turn around, and I have not had the chance to talk to her about Marriage Builders or his books (I have started reading Her Needs, His Needs). I know she will be skeptical, at least at first. I am also worried about our ability to 15+ hours of UA, but from what I read, that is absolutely critical. I am just scared, because we both work 8-5, she is in the middle of an intense year of school for her MBA that takes at least 9 days a month out of any possibility of being together, not to mention our child. I have read some of the threads regarding how to incorporate 15 hours (and I know Dr. Hadley recommends 20-25 for someone like us, trying to rebuild). I think she will be most skeptical of us committing to 15-20 hours per week of UA, and that scares me.

I wish that we had confronted this a long time ago, but there's no changing that. Sorry, I don't need a response to everything I wrote. But I would be interested in hearing testimonies of love rebuilt after long periods of drought. Thank you for listening to me.

Hi Lou! Welcome to marriage builders. When did she tell you she doesn't love you? Did she tell you she didn't love you when you got married?

Did your wife use the phrase, "I love you, but I am not in love with you?"

I knew we had problems even before we were married. She first told me she was missing the "spark" when we kiss about 4 years ago. She has told me that we are just roommates several times for the last 4-5 years. She finally told me that she "loves me but doesn't love me" last week. She also told me again that we're just roommates. She said she doesn't want to feel this way, and has just to ignore it or will herself to love me for a long time, but can't. After reading about the LB, it's obvious why that didn't work. I'm just worried now that it might be too late. We are meeting with our pastor on Thursday. He had never heard of Dr. Harley before, but he is already looking into his material.

No, we overcame 9 years.
The good news is that if there is no other man in the picture for you to compete with, you have a very good chance of winning her back following this plan. It is very typical for there to be one spouse who is reluctant to follow the plan. I was extremely reluctant.

What would you say your Lovebusters are?
How much time together alone would you say you are getting? Doing what?

Do you have access to all her computers, phones, email addresses, and social networks?

Lou, it very much sounds like she is having an affair. The phrase "I love you but am but am not in love with you" means she has a new point of comparison. People who have affairs rewrite history and often say they have "never been in love" only because they are comparing it to a new love.

Obviously she felt enough about you to marry you so it is unlikely she never loved you.

Don't ask her if she is having an affair, but quietly snoop to rule it in or out. Go do that and come back and we will help you with next steps.

I am very confident she is not having an affair. That is not just my feeling that she would "never do that to me". I have asked questions and investigated. She does not work odd hours. She is always home when she is not at work or in class.

Have you actually investigated? What have you done specifically? She has ample opportunity to have an affair. Most betrayed spouses come here fully believing their spouse "would not do that." Until they investigate, and they are shocked to find out their spouse is having an affair.

We are not confident there is no affair because of the red flags in your post.

That is so encouraging to hear. I do not think there is another man to compete with, only possibly the "idea" of another man.

We haven't went through any worksheets or questionnaires yet, but I think our Love Busters (at least LB's from me to her) are Annoying Habits (I have a terrible habit of sleeping on the couch instead of our bed...I have done this 80% of the time for the last 5 or 6 years. Maybe that is more of an Independent Behavior), possibly Disrespectful Judgments (we have a very hard time talking calmly through problems...it usually ends in a defensive fight), and Independent Behaviors (at night, we go to separate floors and watch separate TV shows).

Regarding UA, we are at an all-time low. Over the first 6 years of our marriage, it may have started at 2-3 hours per week and has dwindled consistently. Now it is hard for me to remember the last time we had alone time, except for a few sexual encounters. Since she started her school (late winter), it is zero. Any time we're together, our daughter is there, too. And usually a TV, a computer and two phones, too. When I write all of this out, it seems miraculous we've remained married this long.

She doesn't try to hide her phone from me, although I don't try to snoop through it. I have always had a very strong trust in her. That has wavered since I heard how she felt. I don't think I know her e-mail password. I don't want to sneak around her back to access those things, so shouldn't I just ask her? I truly don't think she's having an affair, but at least it would not leave any room for question of whether or not something is going on.

No, don't ask her. Just quietly look around. She may not be having an affair. But she might be. The reason you need to check is because your next course of action will greatly depend on whether or not she is. Taking a little time now to verify may save you hours of wasted effort.

That is what you need.

Lou, don't ask her but quietly snoop. You might even put a key logger on her computer to get her password and find out what she is doing. An easy one to install and use is eblaster at spectorsoft.com. It will email you the reports.

Try and get her phone and go through it to read emails and text messages. Check out her phone bill to see if there are a lot of calls to a specific #.

Asking her outright will not be effective. Because if she isn't, she will be offended and if she is having an affair you will have given her the heads up to hide it better.

She is likely having an affair. This reads just like every story I have ready about spouses falling out of love. Get a key logger for the computer and a GPS tracker for the car, and prepare yourself mentally for what you will see. I was once convinced that my wife would never betray me, but took the advice of folks on here and finally got some truth flowing in our marriage.

Lou,

From what you wrote it sounds like she has been in an indirect relationship with someone else possibly for years or the entire duration of your marriage. Does she work and is she close to anyone at work.

Did she have a bad breakup before she met you, or does she still communicate with any ex'es.

Have you checked her messaging on her phone? Is there a number with an unusually high number of calls?

It could also be another female.

As other posters have said it's critical you not let her know what you are doing or it can go deeper underground.

God Bless
Gamma

I have access to her phone. I have access to her e-mail. There is one male acquaintance she's had for 2-3 months from her school, and she has been upfront the whole time. I have seen their texts. I have not seen anything worrisome. She hasn't spoken with her ex's in over a decade (which are pretty much her high school boyfriends).

The only regular people she talks to personally are family and 3 or 4 of her girlfriends, none of whom even live in our area anymore. The only exception is the guy from school, and I have seen their conversations and she has told me about him. She has encouraged me to meet him and his wife and kids so we can actually have friends in a similar situation again. I 100% believe that nothing is going on.

Is it so impossible that she simply tried to hide or run from her feelings for years before finally realizing that it wasn't working? And keep in mind, she didn't come out and say, "I want a divorce". She said we deserve to try to fix it, although right now she does not believe it is fixable.

I also haven't mentioned that I felt the same way she does now about 4 years ago. I confessed this to her a few days ago. I was miserable and wanted a divorce. We were not intimate and I felt trapped. But I figured the best case scenario was to somehow become happy and remain married. It took a long time, but unknowingly, I used some of the Love Deposits and avoided some Love Busters, and now I love her even more than I met her. She used to have angry outbursts at me, but she does not much anymore. That changed when I decided to diffuse conflicts as calmly as possible. We still had problems, but her angry outbursts receded tremendously, and that is one of the biggest turnoffs (Love Withdrawals) for me. I clung to the things she did that made me happy, and here I am. My stomach tingles when I pull into the driveway and see her through the garage door. That never happened the first 4 years of our marriage. I also stopped enjoying kissing her for the longest time, and now I have a desire to have long make-out sessions with her, something we haven't done since we were first dating. I think my experience is why I am so hopeful in this program.

I spoke with her earlier, and she says that she is "not on board". Not in a confrontational way, just being upfront that she does not believe it can be fixed. She sounds willing to try, but this seems like a program that needs commitment and belief from both parties. This begs the question, how do we start this without her believing? How can I start the process of getting her to believe? What are others' experiences with this problem?

So basically the only time you and your wife are alone is time that is spent meeting your emotional needs - there is none spent meeting hers.

This time has got to be massively counterbalanced by some major hours spent in enjoyable conversation with her. Get her out of the house on dates with you fifteen hours a week if she will agree, and talk, talk, talk! If she won't get out with you, spend that time alone with her and talk, talk, talk!

Meanwhile, snoop until you can either prove she is having an affair or prove she is not having one. I was pretty sure my wife was not having an affair, too, but when we were posting here in the early days she was in the process of launching one.

You start by demonstrating what's in it for her. She doesn't have to believe is possible to be fixed in order for it to be fixed. Eliminate all Lovebusters on your part. Start meeting her emotional needs. Demonstrate how the POJA works by following it yourself. Be radically honest.

I suggest you listen real carefully to Markos. He did it.

I worked the whole program without Prisca believing in it, for the most part.

Invite her to go on a date. She may refuse. Invite her anyway. And again tomorrow.

Meanwhile, get into her email. You not having access is very suspicious. Keep in mind that even if she is not having an affair, she is very vulnerable to one. Not only has she been neglected for years, but she is used to privacy. Privacy in marriage is an invitation for an affair. You need access in order to PREVENT an affair just as much as to verify that there isn't one.