This past Saturday I discovered my husbands affair with the neighbor across the street. This site and it's advice has helped us move forward in a positive direction with guidance and an understanding of it all. I cant thank you enough for making this resource available to me during my time of crisis!

Hi Hopeful. Welcome to MB, and I'm glad to hear it is helping you! Can you tell us a little more about your situation?

Do you have kids? How old?
Have you exposed his affair? If so, to who?
Is he willing to write a No Contact letter that you will approve and send?
Are you willing to move to get away from the OW?

Here is a checklist for how affairs should end. Can you tell us which steps have been taken?
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Ugh, ok here it goes...

We just "celebrated" or 20th anniversary. Have been together, on and off since the age of 13. I am 44, he just turned 45. Daughter, 17, son, 10.

My family has been told and surprisingly supportive. No one in his family knows. My children know too. Perhaps a big mistake I may someday regret. I felt they needed to prepare for things that may be said where we live. I also, at that time, felt my husband had to be accountable, at all costs.

My husband, in my presence did tell the OW that it is over, no communication at all and that he wants to stay with me. So far they have both respected that.

The day after all of this came to light her father in law passed away (her husband has been out of town due to his ailing father. He is unaware of what is going on) and she has been gone. My biggest fear is her return! I actually don't think she will trigger him but rather ME!

I can't accept that I should be the one to move. My family has suffered enough. She has only suffered the loss of MY HUSBAND!

Ugh, so much pain. So blessed to be welcomed here. Thank you Prisca

Hopefullyme,

If I understand correctly, the OWH does not know about the affair?

If that is true gather all your evidence and without warnings, threats or telling ANYONE expose to the OWH. Without pausing expose to ALL of the OWs contacts work, church and family.

Do not tip anyone off, they will paint you as crazy and you will lose your advantage of surprise, please do not waver in this task.

God Bless
Gamma

Unfortunately, your suffering is far, far from over if you won't move. It is just beginning and you will likely end up divorced after going through much more hell. If you won't move, you are looking at YEARS more of this. I am so sorry. Moving away will be the least of your suffering. Every day you live there is another day your husband will be triggered, making recovery impossible.

The pain is just beginning if you won't move.

When will you be informing her husband?

I smell a set up. OW don't stand there and nod while they get dumped by the married man who has been using them for fun. It is fantastically common for affair partners to do the pretend break up thing.

He needs to send her a stiffly worded NC letter as it appears in the book and for his email/phone to be changed so she cannot reach him afterwards.

She is playing the noble mistress 'I don't want to break up your family (but I will be here waiting)' thing. She doesn't get to do that. She gets dumped by letter.

Then you all move away from the bad smell she exudes.



Thanks goodness you exposed to your children! So you are brave and honest. Great. Now expose to the others. The OP's spouse is being gaslighted into beleiveing you are a psycho as we speak so you need to get hold of him soon. Call your H's relatives and tell them too. He can handle it - he is a big boy. The fact they are not exposed, and she can still picture herself their daughter in law, to is a concern.

Not to mention exposure to OW's FB contacts if she has a page RIGHT NOW - go to her page and copy her friends list into a word doc. Hopefully it is not too late and she hasn't blocked you.



Right. You have. An affair is like a fire which ruins everything it touches. If it breaks out in the workplace, people have to quit their job. If it is with an in-law, families are divided forever. In a neighbourhood - call a realtor.

So you can crouch in the wreckage of the home, telling the fire damage it isn't welcome, awaiting the return of the arsonist, or you can get a new house.

I have the evidence. We unfriend and blocked her on facebook and I have his password.

She knows I have the control to ruin her marriage and that if she so much as looks at our house I will expose it all. She likely didn't fight back for that reason and she knows she lost. She knows he used her. She knows how deep our love runs. She knows she manipulated during a vulnerable time.

I don't see the good in putting her husband and children through this...not at this time anyway. I'm not a saint though. My other reason is I fear the OWHs reaction. If he causes a scene it will be at my family's expense. We have to live here, for now anyway. Once there is distance between us I will strongly reconsider exposing this.

Does this make sense or have I really lost my mind?

How would you feel if the OW's BH found out first and decided to keep you in the dark? He is the other victim here and it is cruel to not let him know. If he gets out of control, then you call the police.

I would have given anything for someone to have the decency to clue me in on my own FWH's affair.

I imagine he will be gutted just as you.

I did almost this same thing and it turned out to be a big mistake! I threatened the OM with exposure if he did not stay away. It did not work! I had everyone telling me I needed to expose it to the OMW and still I didn't do it because I thought it gave me some leverage. This didn't work in my case and it won't work in yours either.

You've got this wrong. NOT exposing is enabling OW to continue to pursue your WH and ruin BOTH of your marriages.

When I finally exposed to the OMW, she was GLAD that I had let her know.

This guy probably has an idea that something is wrong in his marriage but has no idea what it is. He may be blaming himself. This guy deserves to know the truth about what is going on.

It makes utterly no sense at all. You are setting yourself up for lifetime of holy hell that will lead to your H leaving you for the OW. The affair will become more and more entrenched as time goes on. You are going to put your family through immense suffering because you don't understand what you are dealing with. The affair will never end because your husband will be perpetually triggered until he leaves you for the OW.

Your marriage will NEVER recover this way. NEVER.


Would you use this excuse if his bookkeeper was stealing his money? Adultery is a much more serious crime than embezzlement. Ask yourself what kind of person keeps such a secret from a victim?

This man cannot protect himself and his children from your husband if he does not know. This man and his children are being assaulted behind their backs and you are refusing to WARN THEM? You are an enabler, Ma'am. You also become an ENABLER by not telling the OW's husband. To not tell him is cruel and manipulative and the longer you hide the affair for the OW and your H, the more RESENTMENT this man will feel at your secrecy.

Affairs thrive on secrecy so all you are doing is helping the AFFAIR. At the expense of the OW's husband, children and your own marriage.

Ugh, you are all killing me! But I know you are all right. They are out of town. Maybe be back this weekend.

Should I tell him privately or we tell him? His father just died, ugh!

I honestly can't bare to have him react by killing him. All the neighbors involved, I just don't know about right now!

Go tell the OWH privately without warning your husband or the OW. Keep in mind that the OWH is the victim NOT YOUR HUSBAND.

Tell your other neighbors too.

I would also get a plan going TODAY to move. Even if you have to rent out your house to get out of there, you have to do it. And I don't mean moving 10 blocks away, but move far away.

Don't keep this affair a secret anymore. That just harms your husband and the OW. Affairs thrive on secrecy.

You should not enable the affair.

So you are choosing to have enduring pain, and be exposed to ongoing triggers for you and your husband for the rest of your life.
Is that really what you want to do???

If the OWH hears it from you first, he will be much less likely to harm your husband. If he finds out on his own - and he will soon enough!!!! - then all bets are off.

As the affair progresses - WHICH IT WILL AS LONG AS YOU LIVE THERE - the chances of him catching them greatly increases with every passing day. You will just be sitting there on a ticking time bomb that will erupt at any moment. And he will have no mercy for you and your family when he finds out you participated in the cover up!!

It is in your best interest to make sure he knows ASAP.

You're talking nonsense. He is a grown-up family man who will simply hear you out and share your own devastation. It is just fear talking. You would be doing him a service, ending his wife's affair and you will be lying to him and keeping it alive if you don't.

You wouldn't have freaked out and persecuted his home if he had been the one to expose to you. You would have thanked him; albeit a bit grimly. Why does everyone think the BS is going to turn psychotic? Even people who have had their own Ddays!

As Melody Lane says, he WILL find out anyway. The truth floats, so I suggest you find your nerve.

This is exactly true. She now knows that they are busted, and so she IS doing this. She will see nothing wrong with spinning it all to demonize you in order to protect herself.

If there is a way to contact the other BS sooner than when he arrives back home, do it. For all you know, he may decide to take his own marriage protection so seriously that they never come back!

Knowing what I know now, that is what I would do. A house, a job, a neighborhood, money, NOTHING is as important as protecting your marriage.

Contact the other BS as soon as possible, and also finish the rest of your exposure. Have your husband hand-write a no contact letter. And make plans to MOVE.

I would have been SO Grateful if any of my and my wife's mutual friends/acquaintances would have let me in on the secret shenanigans my wife was up to.

It would have given me some answers, possibly early enough to do something that could have saved our marriage and allowed our then 5 year old son to still have his Mommy in his life, to understand that my wife's withdrawal and depression were due to her affair and secret cheating lifestyle.

Instead, i only knew she was depressed because her own Mother had just passed away and i couldn't figure out how to break through to her and be the support that she needed.

Her own withdrawal and desire to always just wanting to be left alone falsely lead me to eventually withdraw more and more into my own work business, because i continually felt my presence being rejected and not helping her deal with her depression.

I would have given Anything to know the real reason for her withdrawal.

I lost many nights sleep, crying and being so angry that No One came forth to let me know what was going on behind my back.

You can let this POSOW's Husband have some clarity and face his own reality about what is going on in his own marriage. It may anger him, but at least he will know the truth about why he feels so disconnected with his own wife.

Please help him know the truth.

LTL

I thought your hope was that she would move? How can she do that when her H doesn't know and the way back into your H's arms remains wide open?

Yes, yes to you all. I am out numbered here and I know you are right. However, I will not do this to him over the phone, I will wait until he comes home. I hope he kicks her out!

Does everyone agree I should tell the neighbors? I have no problem getting my husbands family involved.

Thank you, thank you all! I hope to be recovered enough someday to give such caring, candid advice.

You are making a strategic mistake in not telling the other BS now. You are giving her time to cement her facade with her husband so that he will more easily believe her gaslighting.

Whenever you choose to tell him, you won't be "doing" anything to him. His wife and your husband "did" it to him. You will just be bringing truth to the light of day, and giving that poor man valuable information about his own life.

Yes, you need to expose to the neighbors, at least a couple on either side of your homes. Tell your husband's family and friends. Expose to her Facebook family and friends also. The more people that know, the more to keep your husband accountable UNTIL you move (which should be right now, because you will not be able to begin recovery until you are out of there).

Quite honestly, it might be better over the phone because he is going to be devastated and confused and you don't want skanky interrupting you. I would wait until he comes back and call his cell phone so the OW doesn't see you calling. You can use *67 to disguise your caller ID.

Use your judgement here but consider that she will try to interfere and tell lies if given the opportunity. And whatever you do, DON'T TELL YOUR HUSBAND IN ADVANCE.


Absolutely! Everyone should know. The more people who know the more people to hold them accountable and give you support.

BUT, you have to move. There is absolutely no other way. Your marriage is in DANGER there and the danger will increase with every passing day.


You are very welcome!

Just checking in with you, HM. It's ME -- you know who. How about an update?

Let's talk about all the excellent advice you have been given on your thread thus far, okay? Is there any objection that you are still holding onto?

As I told you last night, you guys HAVE to move. You cannot afford not to. Divorce is far more costly. I'm sorry to tell you that there is no hope for your marriage if you do not. No matter what he says, he WILL be triggered every time he sees her, and it will absolutely KILL you having to see her. As long as they are able to see each other at all, the affair WILL continue. Do NOT trust your own instincts right now about this, okay? I beg you to listen to the voices of experience where this is concerned. What say you?

Also, the other betrayed spouse MUST be told. It is not optional. There are many reasons for this, and you've been given spot on advice by everyone here regarding that. Where do you stand on this issue currently?

I am so, so sorry that this has happened, but you are in excellent hands on your thread. There is no better place that you could be under the circumstances. You have 2 of the most knowledgable people here posting to you, MelodyLane and Prisca. They also happen to be dear friends of mine, and they will give you nothing but excellent advice. Please heed what they say to the letter. I am here for you also, of course. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

(((((((((((HM)))))))))) <~~~that's a giant hug for you

Mrs. W

Even if OW by some miracle left the neighbourhood, you'd still be missing the marvellous opportunity to move.

You're still in shock so you don't realise your neighbourhood is now affair-land. Full of A memories for him, and betrayal triggers for you. Let the other family have it.

Recovery takes 2-5 years of very hard work and strict no contact. You'd likely get to a happier marriage far, far faster in a fresh new place with a fresh new start. An entirely new marriage.

Don't let territorial stubbornness get in the way of such a great opportunity. It's natural to get defensive when you've got a ho-bag on your turf, but everyone on these forums who has moved has waxed lyrical about how delighted they were to leave the bad vibes behind.

I know by now, I may sound like a "broken record" to our vets BUT I can't stress enough how important it is to move.
My BH and I, were given the same advice ~ MOVE, this was confirmed and supported by Dr. Harley himself. In our situation, it wasn't that I was triggered ( as the WW) by remaining where we were, it was my poor BH, everywhere we/he went there was something that triggered him, I realized that in order for us to survive, we had to go!
I truly believe that had we stayed we would NOT be together today. Please think about it.

Mrs. Cen~

I can assure you that anyone who has been here for any length of time will never tire of reading your excellent advice about moving.

HM~

I can't stress enough how crucial following the incredible guidance you are receiving on your thread is to the survival of your marriage. I pray you will listen and act on all of it. Also, I can't believe I left indiegirl off the "the most knowledgable" folks on your thread list! *smacks forehead* She is truly one of the greats! I probably left out others as well. Honestly, your short thread is positively brimming with the best of the best advice.

Regarding the move. My affair, as you know, was a long distance one. OM never even set foot in our state. My affair was in 2005, and we moved in 2010 -- not due to the affair, however, I can't tell you how much better everything became for us after the move. We weren't even conscious of how many negative memories still existed in our old home. Yet, it was where all the phone calls and sickening wayward plans took place -- it is where D-day occurred. There were just lots of affair tarnished memories still there that we didn't even realize. We benefitted immensely from the fresh start.

You guys need a fresh start too, but even more importantly you HAVE to get away from the OW -- she is poison to your marriage and family.

Now get back here and let us know what's going on and how you are doing, please.

Mrs. W

YES! Absolutely!

indiegirl hit the nail on the head. This is a biggie. Your instincts will likely lead you to the place of, "Well THIS is MY home, and I'll be damned if I will let OW take that away from me too!" If you feel yourself going there, make your self stop and realize that it's a foolhardy thought that will be extremely detrimental to your whole family. A house does not equal home -- your intact family equals home.

Mrs. W

Oh mrs. W...how grateful I am to know you are so near!

Today is a bad, bad day. I think I may finally be coming out of denial. I am angry, feeling manic and perhaps violent! They are still gone, thank God because today I feel like inflicting pain! Today I hate my husband! He is struggling with me...likely because I have been too easy on him.

When do I stop feeling like my life is an audition? Anything I do wrong will make him leave. Is this really worth it...today I ask...am I doing the right thing by staying? He doesn't deserve me!

When I come out of this, if I come out of this I will let you know of our move.

You are right! I am feeling like I won't let her WIN, she has no right to make me move! Ruin my children's lives...all they know, all of their memories, their childhood, friends, holidays...my life, ruined!

I just want to scream!

Can you be more specific? Is he threatening to leave?


HM, this comment concerns me greatly. This woman has almost destroyed your lives. Are you going to hang around and let her complete the job? Your children's lives WILL BE RUINED if you don't move. Their lifestyle and your marriage will be saved IF YOU MOVE. If not, you can look forward to a divorce and THAT will ruin their lives.

Moving does not ruin lives. Divorce ruins lives. Adultery ruins lives. You must remove yourself and your children from this destructive environment if you want to SAVE your marriage and your childrens family.

WHEN will the OWH be back so you can tell him?

He's treating you casually like an option because the A is still on. His mind is on the A and he's probably a right old grump.

Don't let that concern you. Their break up was an obvious set up. You just need to expose and truly kill it.

You're all smart resilient friendly people who will thrive anywhere. She's not even half smart enough to ruin the lives of people like that.

You control your life, not her.

HM ~ You need to call me. Go to facebook, accept my friend request and check your messages; you will find my phone number there waiting for you.

Mrs. W

No, he is not at all threatening me. He continues to assure me that I am not auditioning. It's me feeling this way.

He understands we must move.

I don't know when the OWH will be back. Soon I hope because now I am burning to tell him!

I had a nap...feeling a little less hopeless.

Mrs. W...On my way!

You know I will be here, but I want to caution you strongly to continue posting, and not to think that I alone will suffice for you. As much as I would love to be everything for you in this, I am NOT a professional counselor, and I have learned from past experience that one-on-one off board help all by itself isn't the best case scenario for a proper recovery. One of the things that makes the MB forum so great is that there are many here working towards the same goal. Also your being here ensures that you will be getting straight from the book MB advice. I guarantee you that should anyone here offer you advice that isn't Dr. Harley/MB compliant, you will know it almost immediately. This board works wonderfully because of the collective knowledge about the MB program in it's entirety. The more brains helping you the better, okay?

Mrs. W

P.S. I just thought about the fact that I have told many of you here before that I don't have a facebook acct... That was true until my mom passed away in April, and I needed to be able to continue keeping up with my family down South. Anyway, Mr. W and I share an account - OM is blocked. Just wanted to be clear that I wasn't lying before.

The day after my discovery our daughter went on a planned trip with her aunt, uncle and cousins. She is coming home today!

Today I have asked questions and just like I thought, I don't like the answers! But I am getting through it ok. Today will be a better day!

I wish the OW/OWH would get home today....if they do you will all be the first to know!

Soon you will hear from my husband. Hopefully you can help him too.

Happy Sunday my friends!

HM,

While I love reading updates about your well-being, you will receive more help here if you ask questions. It will also speed up once the holiday weekend is over.

Put it all out there. As we discussed, doing less is the equivalent of going to the doctor's office, not telling them all of your symptoms and expecting to be healed...

Mrs. W

MW,

I dont know what to ask. I can only tell my story, daily and use the feedback from all of you to get me through...

Today is my first day back at work. It was so aweful...until I stopped trying to hide it. I let it out...with few tears! It was suprisingly theraputic and I am feeling much better. I am fortunate to work in a very small office with very caing people.

Still waiting for the OWH to get home. I will need prayers to get through that! I will have to re-live this nightmare, ugh!

I did it! I did it!

OWH came home today and we spoke on the phone. Unfortunately he let her listen to our conversation and of course she denied most of what I said. She did not participate in the conversation, she must have just been signaling to him. By the time we ended our talk he was very grateful to me and trusted my honesty. See...you guys were right! Oh man...I feel so much better!

Now, what I am struggling with is that my husband is furious with me for not waiting another day. Talk about Love Busting...geeze! How do I get him to understand that I NEEDED to do this? His retraction of love and affection, stomping around and giving me the silent treatment is causing me to question this recovery! Ugh!

The problem is you really ruined the affair so he is, of course, ANGRY. You did not give him time to pre-empt you.

I would gather all your evidence NOW and walk it across the street and personally hand it to the man. Make sure you have copies in a safe place.


This is not your "struggle." HE is struggling. So let him struggle away!

And bravo to you!! Just go finish the deal by handing him the evidence before she manipulates him with her lies.

Ok, I will fwd the texts to him. How do I deal with my WWS in the meantime? Just let him treat me this way? Try to get him to understand?

He wanted to see the texts so sent them....no real reaction yet. And I'm Sooo ok with that!

Let him calm down and then tell him to come here to MB, register and tell us why he remains angry and upset. He may not like all that he hears here but MB will be honest with him and help him think this all through.

We'd really appreciate seeing what he is thinking and feeling in writing. If nothing else...putting it into words might help him get to the root of what's really bothering him.

This forum is here to help both of you fix your marriage and restore your family. Please utilize it. I've also got some links to some threads by some former wayward husband friends of mine to share with your husband.

Godspeed,

Mr. Wondering

MW, he knows but right now he is so angry at me...he is going to bed.

Maybe tomorrow, I just can't fight tonight!

The OW just txt me and said "he is divorcing me, so you should be happy about that". The nerve of her! I said "I didn't do this, YOU DID! And I'm not happy about any of it! I didn't ruin your family, you did!". Her response "true". I replied by telling her that I am done with her and lose my number!

Do you think my WWS is upset for "me" causing the OW this pain?

The amount of pain and anguish that has been released from my soul from simply telling the OWH is so incredible! Once again, thank you all for making me do that! I agree with ML, just let my WWS struggle. I didn't do this...HE DID!

I somehow feel empowered! Yes! Big Hugs too you all!!!

I don't think he precisely knows why he's upset. I think OW in pain is part of it but it's also just a general feeling of "I never intended for it to get this big and negatively effect so many people all at once".

It's common pretzel logic. He's mad, worried, guilty, concerned, scared, nervous all at the same time. I think it's much safer for him to go to bed and keep his confused pretzel thoughts to himself tonight versus trying to argue and fight it out. Mostly...I hope...he's just angry at himself.

I hope he'll have better days to come.

Also...don't let yourself worry or be bothered by OW's phone call. Her husband isn't likely to follow through with divorcing her and them staying together is the most likley outcome for them. Either way, you haven't inadvertently made the affair MORE likely because OW is about to be single. Your husband has already indicated he is choosing you and your marriage and wouldn't date OW if he were single. If he jumps ship to go be with her...he was gonna go anyway and you'll just have your answer a lot sooner than you would have had they continued with an underground secretive affair hiding it from her husband.

Doing the right thing feels good. I'm proud of you overcoming your initial fears and telling the other Betrayed Spouse. Your husband will be proud of you someday too.

Mr. W

I think he is upset because you ruined his affair. He knows who caused the "pain" and it was the man in the mirror and his skankhoe.

Let's not lose sight of who the victims are here. It ain't your husband and skanky from across the street.

Have you been tested for STDs? I would strongly recommend you do that. It is very likely she was putting out in numerous places.

THIS IS SO TRUE!

No, don't waste breath trying to get him to understand. Just any time he starts up talking about this stuff, change the subject, and if he won't change the subject, leave the room. Don't discuss it with him. Calm and cool, politely decline.

Don't fight him any time, day or night! Ever!

Eventually he will make up his mind if he wants to stay married or not, and if he does, you will have the recovery plan ready to hand to him. If not, we will be focusing on your personal recovery, which will need to involve getting the heck away from him. In the mean time, don't fight or debate with him - that will just cause pain for both of you and make recovery harder.

He's entitled to his insane opinions, but he will have to learn to keep them to himself if he wants to keep you - a requirement of keeping you will be that he STOPS trying to change your opinions and your feelings about his filthy affair.

<- portrait of a strong powerful Marriage Builder after exposure


Don't try to get him to understand anything. Just make it a FACT that if he talks about this stuff, you're outta there. Eventually he's going to be lonely and want someone in his life, and a condition of having you is that he SHUT UP about this stuff and start making JUST COMPENSATION for his terrible mistake.


He needs some time to decide whether or not to undergo the important cranial rectal extraction procedure that transforms a WH into a DH. Don't let him yak to you about all his grievances over you messing up his filthy affair, though, because that will distract him from contemplating this important decision.

I may have missed it, but is this done?


Get started looking at options for this plan. Either you will suggest a move and your husband will go with you and the two of you will recover your marriage, or you will pick a place to move by yourself and recover.

That's a stupid, shortsighted thing to do if he wants to keep his marriage! He needs to be making JUST COMPENSATION. Read this (he may want to read them as well):

Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?

Kudos to everyone who helped this betrayed wife take the first step toward recovery!

Proud of you, HM!

Ahem, and NOW: I'm very much looking forward to your next step... When will you be taking that exactly? I want to hear a date and time -- that date and time must be THIS week. You know I will not stop hounding you about it. I think it is VERY important that you tell the others helping you on your thread what I'm talking about. Otherwise, as I've told you, it is like going to the doctor, not giving him all of your symptoms and expecting that he will be able to treat you successfully. If you don't give all the facts of your story here we can't advise you properly...

There is also an extra detail from about 4 years ago (re: WH) that needs to be disclosed.

Yes, I'm serious. Now spill it, Sister!

Mrs. W

I'm very proud of you. See how good it feels not to be ruled by fear and work from a logical plan?

I hope ALL the exposure targets have been hit?

I also hope you are keeping an eagle eye on his whereabouts/communicaitions and have checked every item on that list. I'd be interested to know if he will write an NC letter and change his contact details.

See I really think the 'break up' in front of you was a set up to prevent you speaking to her H. He is super PO'd that this hasn't worked and now he has to be faithful. Adultery is an addiction which is quite uncomfortable to go cold turkey from.

I think he believed he could still have fun with OW while pretending to recover and what you didn't know wouldn't hurt you.

Here are some good clips on Just compensation.
What is Just Compensation?

HM,

You wrote Now, what I am struggling with is that my husband is furious with me for not waiting another day.

Your WH is furious with himself, he now has to deal with the guilt over damaging the lives of his neighbors children, and the life of his neighbors husband. This is a seriously heavy weight to carry in life, on top of what he did to his own family.

Ask your WH if he can really imagine himself putting on a false friendly face while talking with the OWH after sticking a knife in his back.

You've done OWH an enormous service by exposing to him, the alternative would have been for OWH to live in a marginalized marriage for years or even decades. Worse still OW could have continued to have affairs possibly infecting her BH with some horrible disease.

God Bless
Gamma

HM, the fact that your husband was "furious" about you exposing a day early tells me he had a plan to pre-empt you. His anger gives him away!!

Ok, ok, ok....as Mrs. W has suggested...here goes...

My husband and I are alcoholics. My addiction has come to light more recently as I found my self joining him rather than beating him. I stick most strictly to beer...and overdue it some nights He also is a beer drinker but hits the whiskey on occasion. Much more frequently lately. This is a demon we will address soon. We will be attending our first meeting next Tuesday.

Now I understand I will get "beaten" terribly as it will seem as though I am defending him, but I'm not...just hear me out here.

He likes his whiskey, I hate when he drinks it. He turns mean..not violent just mean and stupid! When he would turn to the bottle to get through whatever it was, I would push him away and belittle him. I would drink more to numb my pain of being second to that bottle. You see where this is going...vicious, destructive cycle.

Now, the OW was supposedly my "friend". Although historically she has confronted me with crazy, jealous accusations re: her husband (all occasions at which my WS was present) I always forgave her. Last summer she extended the final olive branch. Not long after that she started showing up at my house before I was home from work, asking my WS to work on her car etc. Now I know you are going to say that she hung me with that olive branch but I know that was not her intent....at that time anyway. But what she did see was an easy target...my drunk, lonely, vulnerable husband. All the while trying to draw me closer to her. I confronted her, restated my boundaries and that, I think, made the challenge more fun. She then showed up with all the things I don't "allow" him to do....you kinda know the rest. Yes, it takes two to tango but her manipulation of us both was intentional.

I will stop there for now...give you time to beat me up...lovingly, I know!

Nope, not yet. The OWH knows I need to do it when he gets back. He returned to his out of town family today. I am not sure if this was planned (as he just got home yesterday) or a result of this affair.

HM, mrsW probably told you that the alcoholics needs to be addressed immediately in addition to getting away from that neighborhood.

What you can do today is:

1. Get all the alcohol out of the house - dump it all down the drain

2. Call the AA office today and get a list of local meetings. Ask them to assign you both temporary sponsors.

3. Go to your first meeting tomorrow and schedule 3-4 meetings a week.

4. STOP DRINKING NOW

Just so you know, alcoholics are brilliant about making plans but never following through. They are always going to quit "tomorrow." And tomorrow never comes, of course. So saying you "are going to" do this soon is another version of "tomorrow."

It should not be tomorrow, it should be today. Actions talk and words mean nothing.

Mmm he was also going to quit his affair when tomorrow never comes. They all think they can quit anytime.

How rude were you for ruining his fun a day early!



Not at all. The OW in my case also had a competitive thing going on with me. It always left me perplexed. Throwing a tantrum because we'd worn a similar outfit somewhere, being mega obsessed about outdoing my wedding etc. Perplexing because I didn't see how it was a competition for her.

Some women really are untrustworthy Scarlett O'Haras. It's easy to see in hindsight. She must have been thrilled when my H started paying her attention.

Don't let your H off the hook though. Yes, she came into your home and stuck a blade in your back while you were sleeping. But who do you think let her in, handed her the blade and told you that you were imagining the pain?

It's really all moot now. It's what he does from here on in that matters.

Mel is exactly right. HM, this is precisely why I keep hounding you about going to a meeting NOW...

When your WH had an EA four years ago you guys swept it under the rug, and the alcoholism continued. Sadly, you are witnessing the result of that kind of inaction today.

Why are you waiting until next Tuesday?

Mrs. W

Ahem.

HM, where are you? You aren't avoiding the forum because you don't wish to take action where the alcoholism is concerned, are you? That IS what I suspect. If you are serious about recovering your marriage that step cannot be avoided.

Mrs. W

No, no...not at all! It's nice to be missed though! I needed to catch up on all of the things around my house that I have let go over these past days. It seems my emotional pain has caused physical and mental paralization! We have also been getting a ton of paperwork together for an upcoming financial advisement appointment. In hopes to MOVE!
The meetings on Tuesday's are close to us and for beginners. I put it off for a week because I wasn't ready to relive this nightmare. We will go next Tuesday, I promise. I just needed more time.

Over 20 years ago, an Intake Counselor for a mandatory Intensive Outpatient program asked me when could i quit drinking.

My answer was, "Tomorrow, because it will be April 1st and i will fool everybody."

Her reply was; "That's fine. Just one question though. Can you give me a Good Reason why you can't quit today?"

To this day, i still have not figured out a GOOD REASON why i couldn't quit drinking that day.

Now, because of her challenging me with such a simple question, i have not had a drink of alcohol in over 20 years.

Left to my own Best Thinking, i would have put it off till tomorrow and then another tomorrow and even maybe next week Tuesday.

Like Melody Lane so accurately described us alcoholics..... We are great at putting things off.

Today and for a very long time now, i am so very grateful to that counselor.

I enjoy life and am so much more alert to life by not drinking.

I am sure there is a local meeting that you could go to this evening.

Give me one Good Reason why you can't begin today.

I wish you well.

LTL

HM, Learnedtoolate is right. Tomorrow will never come with an alcoholic. There is probably a meeting within 20 minutes every night of the week so I am not understanding the delay here. You need to be affiliated with MANY groups in order to sober up, not just one on Tuesdays. ALL AA groups are for beginners.

Did you call the AA office and ask that temporary sponsors be assigned?

I took my last drink on April 27, 1985 in your fine state and I managed to hit 5-7 meetings a week for 7 years while living in nowheresville, Michigan. I lived in a tiny town in Michigan and managed to find meetings close by every night of the week. There was not even a meeting in my little town, population 1500, so I started one myself. You live in a populous area where there are meetings every night. In fact, they have some really OLD established meetings in your area. Please don't delay. It is extremely important that you and your husband address your alcoholism.

Additionally, if one were to call the local AA hotline in my area, you could request them to do what is called, A 12th Step Call, meaning that they would enlist a couple of Male volunteers who would gratefully drive to your home and share their experiences with you.

If you chose to look for the similarities in their stories, rather than the differences or the Yets, you might be inclined to want to go to a meeting with them that very same night.

You can always quit, if that is your choice.

But, just for the sake of argument, consider giving it a try, Today.

I still attend multiple meetings to this day. Many are very close friends and fellow business associates too. It feels good to give back to a newcomer who doesn't even grasp the amount of damage and suffering that our drinking has caused.

I used to spend Way more time in bars than i do at meetings.

LTL

You definitely were!


I can understand that. It's a rough road for sure. (((((HM)))))


I pray that meeting goes well, BUT the words "in hopes to move" scare me because they show that you still seeing moving as "optional" -- it is NOT. I assure you that the affair will continue if you stay there -- no one here is joking when they tell you that. It has been seen on this board more times than any of us can count. Either the people don't take us seriously about moving or they don't take us seriously about the affairees continuing to work together. No contact for life is non-negotiable. What this means is that even if your financial meeting doesn't goes as you hope, you still MUST move. That might mean that you have to move in with relatives for a while -- or get an apartment or whatever. Brainstorm. I can almost hear you saying, "No way!!!" to those suggestions, but you will put what's most important in your life FIRST -- is that your marriage and family or a house?


I hope you will listen to what ML & LTL are telling you about AA. Your excuses show a glaring lack of understanding about what this will take, HM. AA is not a once a week deal -- I told you that on the phone -- Remember? 90 Meetings in 90 Days??? That is not something I made up. This is far more serious than you are taking it, HM. I know you don't fully grasp this right now, but it IS a matter of life and death for you and your husband. TODAY, start TODAY. Now is How, HM. REALLY.

Mrs. W

Did you make the tuesday night meeting????

Any news on the neighbors???

Please stick around and update because the absolute worst thing you can do for yourself, your family and your marriage is to do nothing.

No, no, I'm definitely sticking around....but I am also trying to spend as much time together as possible. I may not like the advice I hear but I do value it. We both would be lost without all of you!

We told his sister and brother in law over the weekend and our closet neighbors last night. All seemed a bit put off by this exposure stuff but after we explained the MB concepts and process they were on board, supportive and proud of all of the work we have done and progress we have me...ME TOOO!

Now, the neighbors are not sure if they should let the OWH know that they know...thoughts? We don't really care! They feel bad for him. Not sure their feelings on her. Would this info hurt him or help him...maybe both?

Now...youre gonna get me for this but we missed our meeting last night...sighhh, sorry! We were with the neighbors! We allowed an hour and it took up an hour and a half. We didn't think is was fair to interrupt their questions and not have them understand this MB stuff. We were ready to go, mapped it, timed it, everything...I swear! Ok, now more excuses why we can't go until Friday....tonight's his golf night and tomorrow my very best friend (made of honor) from Georgia is visiting for a few hours. Friday, Friday it is! You have to trust us that WE will do this!

That's all for now...I cant seem to get all of my thoughts out today.....more updates ASAP.

Big hugs MB Family! Thanks for checking in on us!

You were not seriously sat there listening to the neighbours talk about "shall we let him know we know" - instead of taking the emergency measures needed for your marriage were you?

Why not just say: "How should I know? You are all grown up and eloquent people - you will figure it out. Excuse us we have a rather important appointment."

Also, even if you were under the mistaken impression that exposure was for you to hold other people's hands rather than they yours, that still doesn't explain why FRIDAY.

You got excellent advice as to how meetings are daily occurances and you can get someone round to the house if you need to. Making a date like Friday is also meaningless because you are willing to duck out for the silliest reasons.

So why Friday? Because it is not today, that's why.

I'd love to be wrong.

How did the meeting go???

Gonna be a rough couple days for you guys I'm sure. There are plenty here to support you guys. Sure like to see your husband say something.

Did you get a sponsor or sponsors????

Indie, I don't yet know how to quote but in reference to holding anyone's hands...Absolutely Not! We stayed because our "friends" seemed offended that we shared such personal information with them. We needed to explain that we were not asking them to "pick sides" but that this was a part of our recovery. In the end it was worth it!

Mr.W, the meeting went well. He dove right in before it got stated...picked up the 12 steps sheet and read it out loud! I guess that is the format before each meeting. I am very proud of him. When we got home he opened up the booklet and mentioned all of the meeting we will go to next week. We are also going on Sunday.

He did not mention the affair...should he have? Maybe at a later meeting.

As far as sponsors for me...only two other women were there. Neither have been attending for very long. Both were there on court order, one recently relapsed with muscle relaxers and the other is very young and appears to be on something....sighhhh! I hope to have better luck on Sunday.

My husband did ask me last night to help him post. He is a man of few words which is actually difficult during this recovery stuff. He knows he needs help trying to help me but he doesn't know what to say or how to begin here.

More later....as always, Hugs!

I was wondering the same thing. Friday came and went. Did you make it to an AA meeting?

HM, good for you for getting to a meeting! Have you stopped drinking? Have you removed all the alcohol from your house?

One good way to get a sponsor is to call the AA hotline and ask them to assign you and your husband sponsors. You really need to do this.

Anything new on the moving front?

Good job for going to the meeting.

Do take ML's advice and go to the source of the organisation so you can access the best advice. I hope Sunday works out well too but you can't relay on luck. This isn't like dress shopping, where you can always try next again next weekend. You can't even start recovery until this is done.

I'm so glad to hear you went to a meeting but you have to seriously hunt down the help you need with a sense of urgency.

As far as AA, we are taking it one day at a time. We have not stopped drinking but have cut down significantly. I know that won't satisfy most of you but we are taking it one day at a time.

Yesterday was a bad day for me emotionally. For the first time I became angry! Not sad, not humiliated, not hopeless, ANGRY! I left for a while, parked and cried. I think the reality of this had just set in. I had been making excuses for him, blamed it on the alcohol and her intential manipulation of us both...but the reality of it is that he DID IT! He could have said NO. He could have stopped it at anytime. They went to bars right at the corner..MY town! He spent my money on her! How do I forgive that...HOW?

When I came home I told him I may not be strong enough for this...he begged me to stay. I have never threatened to leave or not to forgive...the reality may have hit him too.

He has been honest when answering my question....maybe too honest. How do I get those visions and the txt messages I saw, out of my head...HOW?

I'm sorry but moving is not an option...right now! We are looking into our options though.

I gave him a list of several questions to answer in hopes that this will help him find the words to post. I hope he will...soon! We have family coming this afternoon and a meeting tonight. I hope he will find the time to make this a priority, I NEED it!

I am back on the road of forgiveness...for now anyway! I hope this road gets shorter and easier.

"One day at a time" is not supposed to be used as an excuse to not work the program, though. Step one is to stop drinking. You don't take one principle and use it to break another. The steps don't work until you stop drinking.

That is supposed to happen TODAY, not in the future. Like I mentioned earlier, an alcoholic always has plans "tomorrow" to stop drinking and go to AA. You are no different. IT is the BS talk of someone who is not serious about stopping.

The program does not work unless you work it, my friend. Step one is STOP DRINKING. You can't work the other steps until that happens. "Cutting down significantly" is bull**it talk that only means STILL DRINKING.

Try telling the AA people you are still drinking because you are taking it "one day at a time."



Don't say sorry to us! Say sorry to the woman in the mirror because you have doomed your marriage. It is not our marriage that will be killed, but yours!

HM, unfortunately, there is nothing we can do for you if you refuse to follow the steps. Your marriage can't make it unless you both sober up and move.

Having him post here is a waste of time given all these other obstacles, because your marriage won't make it.