So here is my story. Had a feeling that something wasn't right for about a month, finally confronted my wife on 6/8, and told her that my worst fear was her in contact with her ex-fiance. She admitted that she had been in e-mail contact with him a few times a year from 2006-2011, until he got a divorce and she felt that it would lead to a bad place and cut off contact. I saw some of her old e-mails, and had an AO. Started digging more and more, found out that she had a lot of text & a 90 min phone conversation from 16-23 Apr. She told me it was a week long EA, and she cut him off after that. I was devastated, but by Thursday, started reading SAA, and thought we could work through it, as a lot of it made sense, and I felt that she was neglected for 11 years. On that Sunday, she wrote him an e-mail in front of me, telling him that she wanted no contact and that the memories they shared were mostly bad...Then next day, I got a phone call from him, and then forwarded me a number of e-mails, pictures, etc. Apparently contact did not end 23 Apr, in fact, they just moved it to her work phone & a secret e-mail, he actually flew into town on 4 June, and she had 2 hr lunch date, and later on that night, went and visited him at his hotel for 2 hrs, while she was supposed to be in a work out class, and they did in fact have an PA. And one of the e-mail he sent was sent by her that morning, telling him very nicely that it's over, and don't blackmail her. He also informed me that back in 2006, while I was out of the country for a year, she had 3 ONS. Over the past 3 weeks, we have talked a lot, and she confessed to the ONS, and the reason being that she had gained a lot of weight during that time, was very stressed with school & work, and also was convinced that I was unfaithful that year being out of country, due to the fact that I was in Korea, and there were a lot of stories she was hearing from some acquintances on how guys behave when they are over there. So she went out some, each time, got drunk, and needed that attention from guys, and feeling wanted, etc. This time, when he contacted her out of the blue, she started communication because she wanted to hear how he regretted not marrying her 12 yrs ago, and it was the biggest mistake of his life, and basically wanted to string him along to hurt him, as that relationship ended when he became physically abusive. As their communication went on, she got sucked into hearing how he loves her, and getting the EN of affection and admiration met that I was not meeting (admittedly, she's very correct). She begged me to stay and told me that she always loved me and was just sucked in and didn't know how to get out, and at the time, she didn't know if I was still married to her because of obligation and kids, but she didn't feel like I was in love with her, and thought that I just needed an opportunity to end it.

I whole heartedly believe that she was neglected in her ENs, as was I. I didn't grow up in a family that showed affection at all, and she has tried countless times to get us to go on dates more, to show her that I loved her, but time and again, I failed to do that because of stubbornness and a sense of safety because I was content, and she acted happy most of the time, so there was almost no danger signal. In hindsight, there are so many things I would do differently.

For the past 3 weeks, she has been everything I could ask for in terms of showing regret, apologetic, meeting my EN, answering every single one of my questions, and even told me that on 5/16, she drove 3 hrs to see him in another city, they talked for 2 hrs, but had ajoining hotel rooms and nothing physical happened other than an awkward kiss, and she went to see him to show off how good she looks now, and didn't think anything was going to happen then maybe a kiss. Also confessed in 2007, she drove an hr to another city when he flew through and they had dinner, went on a tour, hike and shared a kiss.

We talked more over the past 3 weeks, and are more open and honest than the past 11 years, and we are both committed to make this marriage work, that is why I'm posting on the recovery page, even though it all happened not so long ago, and I still feel in shock at times. My question is how I can get past her behavior, even though I do love her, the disrespect she has shown me, the humiliation that I feel, the gut wrenching pain that she was willing to do everything, and thought it was ok as long as I didn't know kills me. The mind movies are a bear, and the thought that she willingly allowed other guys to use her like that makes me feel like I can't breath. Pretty cliched, and I'm sure a lot of people on here can relate. I'm just taking it one day at a time, and do enjoy the time we spend together, but the hurt just doesn't seem to go away...We are both in IC now, to work through some of our own issues, will probably do MC after that. We follow most of the MB rules, other than the fact that I can't stop talking about the A & we haven't had full exposure, partially because it doesn't seem necessary as there is definitely NC, and my parents would not be able to forgive something like this, ever. Any advice on how we can move forward would be greatly appreciated, and I wish for some affirmation that the pain would go away...without taking the lessons I learned.

It would be wise to ask the mods to move this thread to Surviving an Affair. It is way to soon to call this recovery. Affair addictions are very strong, and your wife has been at it for a very long time.

You would do well to read the book "Surviving an Affair". It presents the master blueprint for recovery. Recovery starts with exposure. Who have you told about this affair?

Read the book, and it was very enlightening. We have seen a pastor a few times. We've each told a few friends, and her parents know about everything other than the PA and her driving to see him, as she was supposed to have spent that night with them, so it would crush them on both accounts, being as devout as they are to their faith.

You should fully expose her affair

In addition to exposing her affair. She needs to put EPS in place. Has she changed all her contact information? Have you both been tested for STD/I?

We are struggling with the exposure due to the fact that people that we currently live about 3 hrs away from family, and will be moving very soon half way across the country for my job, so it doesn't seem like it would help as no one will be in our lives that much. And OM is divorced, lives very far away as well. Another reason is that I do feel like she was looking for closure on that relationship, which she does have now, and I don't think NC is a problem, at least not for a few years. No STD test yet, as the 3 ONS was 8 yrs ago, and the recent A only had one incidents of PA, and she used protection for all of them. But might need to test for STD regardless, understand the need, just hasn't got around to it.

I suggest you listen to the radio show from yesterday and Dr Harley's explanation about exposure.

Sorry you are here but welcome. You have some wonderful people posting to you already.

One thing stuck out immediately to me:


It is waaaaayyyyy too early for her to have earned her "F".

First, while it's great that you two have "reconnected" and she seems remorseful but she has a long history of a SSL (secret second life) and having poor boundaries with men and allowing needs to be met outside of the marriage. These are things that have likely become a bad habit and she will need to be monitored closely (quietly) for a long time.

Secondly, given the fact that she is a possible ?? serial cheater, this is no time to be cutting corners. Exposure is the first step. Everyone who is supportive of your marriage regardless of where they live should be told about all of her affairs.

Third, you did not answer the post by BH about what EPs are being taken by your W to prevent this from happening again.

Not only would I recommend the STD test ASAP - but I would consider a poly to make sure you have the entire truth.

I am very sorry to tell you that I would not be surprised if there were other men in her SSL that you did not know about. Four affairs, 3 being ONS, is not the normal oops-I-let-someon- meet-my-ENs and don't know what happened cheater - it's a sign that she is a serial cheater.

Sir,
You need to expose if you want to follow Dr. Harley's plan.
What you are doing is actually enabling by helping her maintain a secret second life.

This isn't a plan where you pick and choose what you want to follow.
Dr. Harley is very clear that the smallest deviations from his plans often result in disaster.

We will probably expose to her parents, brother/sister-in-law, and some of her other closest friends. STD test is being considered, and she's agreed to take a poly, though I'm not certain we will go through with that yet. I understanding where everyone's coming from, and probably has seen a million times where someone's on here saying "well, my situation is a little different..." It is difficult, and at this point, I feel like what's best for us is to expose it to them as one, rather than me doing it.

Her EP is deleted her old e-mail which he has the address to, she doesn't have access to the secret e-mail account anymore due to the fact that he opened the account, and shut it down shortly after she sent him the NC letter. She's never on the computer anymore at home, and most of the contact was through the secret e-mail from work place, which she has 2 more days of work left, due to our upcoming move. I am checking her personal e-mail, work e-mail, facebook, etc, as well as her phone. We also agreed that she will not drink anymore, which she hasn't really done for the past 8 years anyways. We are also trying to POJA all decisions, and try to spend time together, getting probably close to 25-30 hrs per week right now.

I feel like though it's all cheating the 2 incidences are some what unrelated, one being letting herself be in situation when she's depressed & drinking out in a bar, with some folks that weren't the best of influence. And the most recent one being old relationship that she never had closure in, and wanted to get back at him for hurting her emotionally & physically. Know cheating is cheating, and some of her own characteristics is behind it all, but the situations were different...

We are also both in IC right now, 3 sessions for me and 1 for her so far, mainly for me to deal with the situation and for her to understand why she had such a high need for approval/attention from others. She mentioned that year that I was gone was a very dark place for her, gained a lot of weight, sure that I was cheating, stress, lonely, and was very depressed, to the point of being suicidal.

Do you have the book SAA?

Have you seen this?
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Extraordinary Precaution

Yes, we have the book and read it. And have done all of the above. In fact, we just got off the phone w/her parents and told them everything. We are planning on telling more this upcoming weekend.

Why hasn't she changed all her contact information?

She has gotten rid of her personal e-mail accounts, we blocked his phone from our numbers, as well as linked-in, he's not on facebook, and I have access to her facebook account. She's willing to get a new number, but we haven't got around to it yet.

I was actually the one hesitant for her to get rid of the personal e-mail, not sure why exactly, probably subconsciously I thought that if he tried to contact her through that, I would have a pretty good chance of seeing it...But realistically doesn't make sense, as if she wanted contact, she could easily start a new secret e-mail.

Hopeful,
She should eliminate all forms of contact.

Edit: you dont need counseling to find out why she had affairs. She. ad affairs due to a lack of boundaries around the opposite sex.
At this point, you should drop counseling and focus exclusively on Dr Harleys Surviving Surviving an Affair recovery plan

He has eliminated all forms of contact. We are in IC not to find out why she had affairs. We know already, especially the recent one, being her need for closure & loving to hear how he regret it and thought he had ruined his one chance at happiness, and wanted to take revenge by leading him on. In the process, she allowed him to fill her unmet emotional needs, etc. We are in IC for me to work out some of my issues with this affair, and also to deal with her self esteem; strong need for affirmation; inability to set boundaries; to deal with some of her demons. We are committed to the SAA plan as a plan for recover.

Wrong, the reason for the A was poor boundaries with the OS. Everything else is an excuse and a way to rationalize teh A.

Now it is important to meet each other's needs but the boundary issue is what needs to be addressed to prevent another affair.

Her need for closure is not why she had an affair.

She has had FOUR affairs - she has a LONG history of a secret second life and looking to get needs met outside of the marriage. She is most likely a serial cheater.

You need to set up a lifestyle in which cheating will be impossible for her.

And like I told you earlier in this thread, I would be very cautious in trusting that you have the full truth...because I would not be surprised at all if there are other things in her SSL that you do not know about.

When I arrived here, my ex WH had had one EA and one ONS. I was advised to have him poly'd and I ignored that advice. There was much that he kept hidden from me and we struggled on in a false recovery after the honeymoon period ended.

I would STRONGLY urge you again to consider a poly.

Uh-huh. My ex did this too. He also sobbed while watching the infidelity video here on MB.



You know that this is not true, right? People in affairs who meet up at hotel rooms don't just "kiss". I can't tell you how many people show up here and have been told a similar story by the WS. She didn't just kiss him the second time either.

Poly.

I am very confused because you just told us this:


If she is on FB and has the same number then you haven't eliminated forms of contact. Blocking is not adequate. It doesn't matter if he isn't on FB - it takes 2 seconds to open a profile. Besides, it isn't safe for her to be on FB. She has already shown you that.

Dr Harley addresses this in his BASIC EP list.

IC is not going to help you with your issues with the affair. It will just keep you triggered and counselors have a history of giving advice that conflicts with MB advise.

IC is not going to help your WW with self esteem issues. I spoke to Dr Harley about this EXACT topic regarding my ex and he told me IC would not help him with self esteem. Again, this would be a distraction and most likely she will get advice that conflicts with MB.

All the tools you need are right HERE.

If you two want further help, some things you can do:
~Write to the radio show and get advice from Dr Harley himself.
~Use one of the Harley kids by clicking on "Coaching Center" at the top of the page.

I agree with SusieQ about the poly.

Schedule a poly today Polygraph Testing

Dr Harley on IC:

Here


More:


here

here

here

[/quote]

We exposed to friends & family this weekend. All were shocked as we have always seemed like a very strong couple, especially with who the OP was as he was definitely a scumbag in every sense. But all were supportive and wish us the best. Talked about poly and she's willing, I haven't made up my mind yet. Understand the lies & deceit making it tough, but I do believe her right now that there isn't anything else that haven't being told. She also agreed to the STD testing, again, something that we haven't done yet due to the stress of everyday life, and the fact that we are moving this week is making this a little tougher.

I do view the 3 ONS & recent A to be two separate incidences, and don't think those dark time will return. Though the underlying issue is that she lacked boundaries and there was no EP in place, and lived an independent life, but I have to believe that she was/is mostly a good person, someone who loved me & I love.

And I misspelled above saying "He has eliminated all forms of contact", I meant to say "She". I don't think she will as there is no withdrawal, or real thought of being with him. We talked further and believe she was looking for closure due to the emotional abuse she suffered during the 5 years of their relationship, and NEEDED to feel like it wasn't her, and when he called, she wanted to lead him a little, and got addicted to him stating how much he regretted it, and then panicked and was trying to get out at the end. Unfortunately made the really bad decision that sleeping with him once and then trying to gently break things off would placate him and not have him blow everything up in her face. Obviously worst decision of her life, and I see that regret everyday.

It's being up and down, but today was a really bad day for both of us. Anger at her is subsiding, but the pain felt fresh this afternoon, had a long talk, and she vomited from the guilt & disgust at what she did.

Thanks for all of the suggestions, both WW & I are committed to get past this. There are really good times when we are talking, working out, and generally spending time together, SF has been like when we first started dating if not more so, but it seems like this dark cloud is always over us & threatens to downpour at anytime with no warning.

Well, hopefully you wont die from the sex (AIDS, etc)

Sir, I'm confused...did she write a letter of no contact as explained in Surviving an Affair?
At this point, you need to focus on following the book and not examining why she needed closure from him. Such tal is a waste of your time and a hinderance to recovery

I agree; it sounds like she is just blowing the "foghorn" at you; a polygraph would give you the honest answers you need.

Is there a reason why you dont want her to take one?

Has she written a NC letter?
How Affairs Should End


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

If she's willing, then there's no reason to waiver. "Believing" a known liar is not a good reason to skip the test. Many BS's here WANT to believe their WS. That's the normal....BS denial is a huge problem on these forums. It is a great big job many of us have getting people to snoop and/or continue to snoop once they are told the affair is over.

As we tell people often, you are the least objective person on this thread. Why? Because you love your W and want this R. Trust us, there are HUGE red flags in your WW's story and it would be CRAZY to just sweep it under the rug and blindly trust someone who has been untrustworthy for many years of your marriage.



Again, I understand that you are going through a lot - most of us are - but this is a priority. This is your health we are talking about, and besides, you need to get these things DONE and OVER with so that you can move on to rebuilding your marriage!

With all due respect, Hopeful, this is concerning and shows me that you do not understand Dr Harley's teachings about affairs. Whether she is a "good" person or whether she "loves" you is completely irrelevant to why she had the affair and whether she will do it again. Dr Harley says that anyone can have an affair under certain conditions.

The fact is that your W had four affairs which indicates a need and desire to get her needs met outside of marriage and had a long history of leading a SSL. If she was radically honest none of the affairs would have happened.

I am seeing big red flags that she hasn't completely given up her secret second life and that's why we are encouraging you to do a poly. If she passes, then great. You can put that behind you and move forward. It's not worth the risk to just skip this step.


None of this negates the need for her to change her phone number and to close her FB account or send a NCL. There is a reason that Dr Harley has a published list of EPs. We don't say to people "Please demonstrate your WS's remorse and seriousness about recovery and then we can tell you which EPs to pick from this list".

Your WS's remorse and seriousness about recovery is, in fact, demonstrated by her willingness to put these precautions into place. These EPs not only protect your M from further affairs, they help to ease the distress of the BS and they provide JUST COMPENSATION.

Hopeful, I have seen over the years many BS just want to sweep the affair proofing part of MB under the rug and just get to the meeting needs and avoiding lovebusters part. It doesn't work. Resentment lingers and the marriage will not be restored.

Please read HPB's thread on EPs: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2374198

As well as the article on JC, which he addresses in the first few posts:





I hope that you can see the difference here between Dr Harley's approach and the IC that we were discourage you from (which I didn't fail to notice you didn't address in your post).

What I am seeing in your description of your and your WW's attempts to fix this marriage is to "talk" through these issues and to "believe" in your love and goodness in each other and for her to demonstrate her remorse to you through communication. That's a typical IC approach.

MB is all about demonstrating care and protection for each other through ACTIONS.

Your post can be summarised as "I'm glad she seems willing and I just want to have back what I thought I had"

Very natural but not good enough. You need to make something much, much better. Something backed up with verification and an end to the bad old days of trust. The bad old days using the fairy tale belief that 'bad' people have affairs, 'good' people do not and love will save the day.

Lots of good people in love betray and are betrayed. Work the plan!