Thanks again, MelodyLane -

Yes, I now know the difference between overt control, the "good" control I applied on my wife, and the "control" I avoided by not demanding she end the affair. I have learned the difference, and am not afraid to assert a healthy demand.

I want to hear all the details, and not re-visit them. But, I admit that I am in a place that I don't trust her yet. I have asked about some details, and they have become more detailed the 2nd time I have asked about them. Unlike some of the posts I have read, I have not digressed to square 1, but I anticipated the lies, and accepted the new details, and continued from that point. Huge revelations would probably send me to square 1, but minor additions or changes to the story are ok, as I want to understand and hear 100% truth.

On the day she sent him an email disconnecting from him, with her permission, I added him to a blocked number for texting and calling, and I changed her email. She does not have access to her old email. But, as I discovered on our vacation after she disconnected, she memorized his phone number. I feel safe with her phone, as records show he and she haven't called or texted since 1 month ago. but, now that she is in rehab, I can't say for sure she hasn't contacted him with her memorized number.

She has proven trustworthy for 1 month. Should I still insist she change her phone number?

I have felt safe for a week... for more than that actually, except for her remaining feelings for OM. I have read all the stuff on MB site... what point am I missing?

And you shouldn't trust her. I hope you learn to accept that for a very long time. Trust has to be earned. It is too much trust that leads to affairs.


I would strongly suggest you skip the minor details and just ask her about any major revelations. If there are none, just drop it and never bring it up again.


She cannot be trusted UNLESS you change the phone # because that is a wide open avenue the OM can exploit. These types of risks have to removed. The OM should not be ABLE to have a way to contact her. Looking at the records won't prevent him from calling. I would bring her a new phone and cancel the old #.

Have you looked around for a burner phone? Many cheaters carry pre-paid secret affair phones.


The part you are missing are extraordinary precautions. You shouldn't feel safe until that happens.

I have told her I am watching her deeply. She told me she knows that I know where she is physically. It is true. She has not tried to change that knowledge. But, I have not divulged 100% what I know.

I am still not sure how exposure about the affair will help my kids. They are recovering from the alcoholism, and accepting that their mom needs help, but not truly understanding what that means. Adding the element of emotional and partial physical affair might help me, but will add an element of confusion to them that only my oldest might understand.

I feel like my wife is moving past the affair. I agree that I should add some deep openings to make sure it sticks, but I am mixed about why I should expose my kids to this. I don't see the upside.

Is she going in and out of rehabs because its easier for her to carry on her affair? I find it astonishing that an alcoholic would do that!! How do you explain that none of this rehab business has WORKED???

As I have said before, the older children are included in understanding that their mom is addicted and depending on alcohol. I am struggling with the affair details and how it will help them or her to know. I am at a point that I think they will not have any understanding, only judgement, that their mom abandoned their dad.

There is no reason to lie to your kids about her affair. That harms her and it harms them. Don't lie to your children, Sir. That is sick and dysfunctional. Kids are not made happy or secure by lies and illusions.


She has not moved past anything. Of course you should be honest with your kids. This is vital information about their lives that they have a right and a need to know. It is very likely that some of them already know. Telling them gives you an opportunity to discuss it with them and give them moral guidance.

Don't cover this up for your wife. That is not fair to her or your kids.

Children over the age of 4 "understand" infidelity very well. They know what it means. And of course, they can "judge" that adultery is wrong if you have taught them right from wrong, which I am sure you have.

Thanks again, MelodyLane, for your insights -

I get that I can't trust my wife. I do when it makes sense to my suspicious soul, but not otherwise. I am a very suspicious and snoopy husband.

So, you are saying I shouldn't ask for the details about the affair, only the major heart-changing moments? I care about the details too... should I not? Is that counterproductive to reconciliation?

OM cannot exploit her existing #. It is blocked permanently, in a way she can't change without me knowing. But, she knows his #... I can't change that without giving her a lobotomy. How do I fix that without trusting her? My wife is not resourceful enough to understand prepaid phones vs postpaid phones. I have validated this assumption. I am a sneaky and distrustful person.

The extraordinary precautions thing I have linked to her agreeing to the MB concepts. Is that something I should not be thinking? I want my wife to agree to these things, and come in line with my thinking, not be compelled or controlled to these conclusions.

No, that is not what I mean. You need the details, but don't keep re-hashing known events and trying to milk more details about events you already know about.

[quotee]OM cannot exploit her existing #. It is blocked permanently, in a way she can't change without me knowing.[/quote]

Gotcha! Now what about facebook? What other ways could he reach her?


trusting her does not fix that! The way you fix that is to eliminate any opportunities she has to contact him.


I find that impossible to believe especially since she hangs out with alcoholics!! Even wetbrains know how to do this!!


I would insist she comply and strongly COMPEL her to comply if she wants to stay married. Why not?? Let her know this is what it will take to recover your marriage. Your marriage is hopeless otherwise.

Agreed... the rehab thing hasn't worked the multiple times she has been in. But, it has not been conducive to increase an affair. Her affair escalated after the 7th rehab, and that didn't change until a couple of days ago. She denied being an alcoholic for so long. She is an expert of rehab... she enjoyed being away from the stresses and reality, and is a very impulsive person who doesn't think about decisions to their conclusion/result.

I confided in her before her current rehab assignment that it hasn't worked at all. I endured a lot of verbal abuse after that, but I think she heard what my concern was. 3+ months of rehab that results in instant alcoholism, is not valuable. I feel the current rehab is different... that she is trying to break the physical manifestations of addiction. I am hopeful, but skeptical. I do not believe that there is any relation to the affair, based on the pattern I have seen. But, I am steadfast in thinking this is the moment she will finally embrace sobriety. I will believe this until she has her first drink.

Let me put it this way. If your wife does not comply, you will have more affairs in your future. Are you willing to live like this? Most people ARE NOT, but I assure you that if you don't implement EP's, this will be your future and you will be back here with repeat affairs.

I am very skeptical about the rehab deal. Honestly, I have never heard of someone who went to rehab 8 times in 3 months. How do you know she is not going there to troll for men? Or hook up with the OM?

She does not have his Facebook account. But, that doesn't mean much, I guess... she abandoned her Facebook account almost 2 years ago. I am still connected, and she hasn't had activity in those 2 years.

I thought I eliminated her contact opportunities... we changed her email, and I have full access to the new one. They have not connected via her phone. I have GPS tracking enabled, and she doesn't know it... and she has not once approached his apartment complex since she said she disconnected. She is saying things she never said before, without my behest, which helps soothe my concern.

I have been talking about MB, but again, until she is sober, it won't mean anything.

She doesn't hang with rehab-ites or alcoholics... OM was the only one she connected to. She doesn't go to AA. I am very tuned to my wife, and despite my denial about what things she said and does, I am very distrustful right now. The only thing she has done in the past month is get drunk daily, and all the time. Sadly, that reassures me that she isn't doing things I don't know about. That is why she is in rehab now. She is not with OM, as she is asking me to pick her up tomorrow, as she misses the family and me. The beginning of the affair is when she asked him to pick her up from one of the rehabs instead of me. She knows I will pick her up despite my misgivings about her alcoholism - I've realized it has to be her choice. That is a codependent thing I am working on. I realize that I won't take her to rehab again - I can't be a part of it, as I can't keep enabling her.

I have gotten some nuggets from this thread - I value my marriage. I have been hurt. I have not gotten an answer to my original question, but it doesn't matter. I have a right to insist on marriage protectors for both of us, as they are not controlling impediments. I am not willing to live through multiple affairs. I want the best for us both, not lies and hidden relationships undermining our marriage.

Awesome!


Agree.


Is she DONE with rehab? Has she completed the program or is she just using this as a hotel getaway? how long has she been there?


But it is your choice if you pick her up. Is that a good thing? Has she completed her rehab program? If not, then it is not a good idea to pick her up.


Great! And I agree it doesn't matter. Your feelings are your feelings. And the hurt will go away if you affair proof your marriage and stop the blood letting.

What is your plan if she comes home and gets drunk tomorrow?

MelodyLane - thank you for challenging my responses and defenses.

She called me this evening about rehab, and said she is done... she has heard all the lectures repeatedly over the past rehab internments. I will defend her this last time, and set the boundaries for the future. She thinks she needs outpatient treatment... something I suggested, but did not control her decision a week ago. she and I know she needs help, but only she can choose to pursue it... and I can tell her what my needs are to continue a blessed marriage.

If she comes home and gets drunk tomorrow, I am not sure what to do. I am ready to set boundaries with her, and tell her what I will and won't do for her any more. I am on the brink, and she needs to understand that I won't go to the ends of the earth for her if she wills it.

I am not willing to continue the bloodletting... i want us both to push forward. I know that I am ready... waiting to be sure she is too.

Whom have you exposed to on OM's side?

Have you been tested for STD/I?

Are you in AlAnon? If not, you and your teenage children should go.

When will you be telling your children about her affair?

Please read this and listen to the clips.
Exposing to Children

I have looked up AlAnon meetings, earlier this week, and have them booked on my calendar, but haven't had the chance to go yet.

I have read the threads on exposing A to kids, but still am hesitant. What does it accomplish at this point in recovery?

Let me ask you something. Are your kids intelligent and good? Most are.

Your kids are going to bowl you over with their reaction to exposure. They are going to show their mother so much love, so much moral outrage, so much caring - it will really make you proud to see what good people they are and how well they respond to the truth.

There're also going to be a lot of Aha! moments where they are so grateful to have an explanation. Kids see so much that you haven't seen. She will have let things slip around them.

They aren't idiots. They know when they have a parent who is less than honest with them. In times of trouble that is very scary for kids.

The truth isn't scary though.

We've also never seen anyone become un-wayward without full exposure (including children). So if you plan on hiding it from them, there are a lot of affairs to come. So that means them not only finding out for themselves but also discovering you lied to them the whole time.

I would honestly not be very surprised if they already knew and think they are protecting YOU. That is very common. So is an OM abusing the kids, or planning to, when the WW is very vulnerable.

Children's reactions to exposure tend to be more sensible and naturally just than adults who get all freaked. So many times I have seen a BS say 'they can't handle it' only for their bright little buttons of kids to handle it far, far better than they do.