Here�s my background. I found this site a couple of months ago and wish I had found it a year ago. I see all my mistakes now but can�t change them. We have been married for 30 years. Two girls, 26 and 23. My first marriage and his third. I discovered that my husband was having an affair July 2013. I asked him to move out, which he did for a month. He told me he ended it with her. We had been seeing a counselor for a month before I found out. He had been treating me horrible and I felt like our marriage was close to divorce. He agreed to counseling. I never suspected an affair. I just thought he was unhappy and pushing me away. I had changed jobs in January of that year and it was consuming my time.

He was contacted by an old girlfriend from high school on facebook in January. She lives out of town but was coming in town once a month. In March they met for the first time. When I first found out, he told me they were just friends. Friends that talked 2 hours and text 50-100 times a day? He then told me that they had only met once. As the months went on I kept hearing more and each time he told me it was the whole truth. That first month that he was gone, I thought we had fallen back in love again. We went on dates, I slept over, we stayed up all night talking about things I never knew about him. It was great.

My problem is that every time new information would come up, I would be devastated. Crushed again. I felt like we were always living in a lie. Then in February of this year, he gave me access to his work email. I found several old emails between them. I�m sure he thought he had deleted them all. They had started using his work email the day after I found out. What bothered me the most was that I thought we had fallen in love again at that time. The things that he was saying to me and then to her killed me. I believed him again. He did have emails in there that ended the affair so I do believe it is over now. He ended it in September/October last year.
I know even now he hasn�t told me the whole truth and I wonder if there was anyone else. I just can't move on. We just had another discussion about telling me the whole truth (a few weeks ago) and he just told me that he would tell me everything tonight. But at this point, I am so hurt about the continued lies that I don�t know if I will believe anything he tells me. When is it the truth?
I also want to know at this point do I disclose to anyone new since it has been over for almost a year now. I do have some family and friends that I have talked to about it but not my kids.

Welcome to Marriage Builders, HTB. I am sorry for the horribly painful situation that brought you here, but know that you have landed in the EXACT right place to follow the plan that works for surviving affairs.

First step, go to the first thread in this column, "Surviving an Affair - Start Here First". Read everything there. Then, come back here and you will get the guidance you need.

You should get all the major questions answered in one go. I would tell him that you have booked a polygraph in a few days and you expect him to pass. With the polygraph looming, hand him your questions and say you want them all answered in full so you can both put this behind you.

It's common for the truth to change all the way up to the polygaph. We call this 'trickle truth' around here and I can see you have had ENOUGH of that. So keep the timescale short - two days between the q's and the poly.

See trusting is not something you can decide to DO. It is an involuntary reaction like laughter. When something is funny - you laugh. When you experience someone behaving in a trustworthy way - you trust.

You know how to trust, just like you know how to laugh - but things haven't been quite so funny lately.

The MB program insists your H provide you with trustworthy conditions. MB does not naively insist that you 'trust' with nothing to trust in. Something that sadly, many amateur counsellors advise.

So you distrust him - that just shows you have been paying attention!

If his behaviour changes back to trustworthy, then your reactions will change.

The MB program requires a list of conditions be checked off; it's designed to build trust. I'll get the list for you.

Here is a checklist for how affairs should end. From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

"The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives."


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


Exposure is the most important step - it is the first step.

You still expose if the A has been dead for 20 years!

You need to expose (and I would do this task first) to your friends and family, to his friends and family, all children over the age of 4 and the OW's spouse if they have one.

Kids and the other spouse are most important. The other spouse because they have been going through the same horrible treatment and 'I want a divorce' that you got. The kids are so very important. In some ways they have been more betrayed and are more in need of protection than you are - you need to tell them the whole truth.

They should be encouraged to share their feelings with their father in full and he should receive no warning that you are about to expose. Don't mention it at all, let others do it.

Read this carefully and make sure you expose to everyone in one day. People should be encouraged to support you and to call your H and urge him to work on the marriage.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566583

He has made some changes. He is at a new job and I have the email passcodes. He has changed his phone number. We have been reading the MB basic concepts. He even purchased the book His Needs Her Needs right after that. He wants to make our marriage better but just doesn't want to tell me what happended. He say it will hurt me too much. The lying is hurting me.

Everytime we have talked, I have given him a list of questions and told him that I need them all answered in one sitting. I want to know and then move on. But everytime we have talked, I know there are things he is still lying about. He usually tells me about something I had already questioned several times.

Requirements for Recovery from an Affair


Dear Dr. Harley,

I discovered my husband's affair in May. He was very repentant, ended it and has been working very hard on our marriage ever since. I was not familiar with Marriage Builders at the time and I just followed my instincts. I suppose we are in recovery.

But our communication skills are almost non-existent. We only talk about things that are "safe." My husband’s idea of dealing with his affair is to put it behind us. I need to talk about it to heal. I am still having nightmares and sleeping little. I know nothing about this woman, including her name. He has refused to give me the information because he feels it is over so what difference would it make now. He has agreed to counseling but has been dragging his feet.

Our communication skills are so poor that I can't even bring up his affair for fear of "rocking the boat." He will not read any books or discuss the reasons for his affair with me. I am terrified it will happen again.

We went for a few counseling sessions over a year ago (before affair, communication issues) and it was a disaster. It was so much psycho-babble that neither of us could stand it. Where should we go from here?

Please advise.

K. R.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear K. R.,

The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.

Best wishes,

Willard F. Harley, Jr.

He's ashamed and doesn't want to face the consequences of you knowing. He won't tell you without the screws being tightened. He wants to 'sweep it under the rug' as Dr H says in his letter.

Exposure will change that, because it forces him to face the shame before everyone in one big nuke. He will also have all eyes on him as to how hard is he trying to make it up to you. This puts a stop to the rug sweeping.

In this atmosphere you set up the polygraph. Tell him you expect him to pass if he expects you to stay. This is no time to pussyfoot around here. He put you through hell and you have standards and requirements for staying. Lying due to shamefacedness is unacceptable.

Most importantly this approach prevents you becoming a nag. Badgering him withdraws love units for you and for him. Get it done swiftly and effectively instead.

We will talk tonight and hopefully this will be the last time we talk aobut it. I also have kept a journal since December about my feeling and how things were going with us. The counselor suggested it. What do you think about me printing it out for him to read afterwards. I will also print out my questions again for him.I really just want him to tell me what happended without me having to ask questions but I will have them just in case.

Where do I find someone to do a polygragh

Here Polygraph Testing

Thanks

How about exposure? Do you understand how to do it and are you prepared to expose in full?




Your counsellor sounds a bit like clueless and like they are playing at this.


A specific plan for him to step up is what's needed here. A journal about how you feel suggests the issues to be repaired are with you and that the problem is how you feel - it's not.

Yes I will expose when my daughter comes back from vacation next week. I will do it all at the same time. I want to talk to them together.

Sounds good.

I'd encourage you to read Dr H's warnings of poor counsellors. You haven't given me a lot of info but the journal idea sounds like typical talking shop nonsense that never really moves forward. In MB you get all the air cleaned out right at the start then you never mention the A again. You make the present romantic and happy and leave the past behind.

He says in the following article "counsellors who sit and listen to couples' complaints are to be avoided at all costs"

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7100_counselor.html

Maybe I've misunderstood and the journal was to stress what you need; but it sounds like he was only required to read, not do. That makes me suspect a counsellor who is just gathering complaints.

Anyway I found this:



Have a listen just in case it applies to you.

We stopped going to the counselor in December. We didn't get much out of it except that I could air my feelings. And yes we talked about it too much. I really like the idea of talking once and then moving on.

He won't agree to the polygraph. He says he has heard too much about them not being true and not even being used in court anymore. Should I just believe this time?

I wouldn't. Polygraphs are really very accurate and it would serve to give you peace of mind. He should surely want that..

He says he won't. Do I ask him to leave if he doesn't? He says he will do anything with the MB site because he has really gotten a lot out of it but I don't want him to get into the forum area and read my posts yet. I am afraid he will be turned of by the site if he thinks this idea is coming from here

I would give him a proposal. Tell him if he will do these certain things, you will feel satisfied enough to drop the issue and move on. But if he won't, then you are going to be stuck and are going to have to reconsider your marriage with him. You very much need to take a firm stance on this because it will ruin your marriage if you don't. Your resedntment and anger will grow until you literally hate him. And then your marriage will be over. I don't think he wants that to happen.

Go to him with his proposal:

1. answer all of my questions openly and honestly - start by telling me the story of the affair and I will follow up with questions

2. after this session, agree to take a polygraph to validate your answers

This will clear his good name and give you the peace of mind you need to move forward. You have to agree to drop the affair forever if he does all the above to your satisfaction.

Yes, I would tell your kids. But...get the full truth first.

Is the OWhoe married? If so, does her spouse know all about the affair?

He doesn't trust the lie detector test. He is afraid if it shows he is lying when he is not, I will never believe him. He wants to show me that I can trust him again. He is really against the polygraph.
I want to push the issue but I don't know if I am ready to walk away from the marriage if he doesn't change his mind. I know I can't threaten and then not follow through.

You already knew he was hanging on to dishonesty so this shouldn't be a shock. The idea terrifies him. I'd keep him off here for now while you get exposure ready.

If he raises the poly again, I'd just refuse to engage or argue. Don't show any interest in his answers or talking about the A either. Just say you don't feel ready to trust what he tells you just now and you will get back to him.

I'd bring it up again post-exposure in a firm way.

Out of interest, what has he told you about the A and where do you suspect dishonesty? Has he claimed he had no feelings for her or no sex? What type of stuff has he trickled?

There are a few different ways of verifying truth.

Do you want more affairs? If the responsibility for healing is shoved on you and you are expected to trust him no matter what, there will be.

You already know it's impossible to trust in these circumstances. You've tried. It will be a death if a thousand cuts.

It's concerning that he is after your blank trust rather than feeling grateful there are things he can do.

However this is pretty typical pre-exposure. You see he doesn't want to see disgust in anyone's eyes, to protect his own self image.

No one else knows, and even you have been eased in slooooowly so as not to upset his self image. That's why he is acting like he hasn't done anything that bad, sweeping it under is OK and that you should be the one doing something - blank trust.

It's often different when everyone is looking at him dumbstruck. Then he gets it.

Don't raise it just now. If he does (and you've hit a nerve so he will) or he wants to 'come clean' just shrug and say you don't want to. This will rattle him so he will probably raise the topic of trust; he will be very anxious to make trust YOUR job and YOUR issue.

I want you (even if you feel scared and unsure) to put on your poker race and tell him YOU DONT. Say it nicely and say you hope he can think of some way he can prove he is now trustworthy. Then drop it and go take a bubble bath or make tea. Don't get into a conversation with a wayward who is trying to hide his hoard. Like a junkie with his stash.

Your success now relies on being tough. You can't waver here.

Between now and exposure, do you know how to Plan A?

We did talk tonight already. He told me about her contacting him on facebook. He told me about everytime they got together. Since she lives out of town, there was not too many times. Most of their contact was phone and email. She sent a lot of pictures.

I guess my worry is.. if there were any others. I think I am being paranoid. I never suspected anything until last year. I remember in March sitting on the side of the bed and asking him why he hasn't wanted to be with me lately. That was the month they first met. Then a month later he was hiding his phone and making weekend plans with some guys to go shooting. He met with her.

I saw the emails after July when I found out and the ones where he said that this has to end. It ended in September. He said she sent him and email at Christmas just to say hi. He said he didn't respond. Then I got on his work email starting in February. I asked him to let me know if she sent another email.

She did send one in March. Their anniversary of the first date. It was just a hope you life is good and thanks for the time we had together letter. I saw it on his email and realized he hadn't seen it yet. I copied it and kept is as unread and waited to see if he would tell me. An hour later when he opened it he contacted me and told me she had sent it. That really helped me to trust him again. At that time I asked him to write her a letter to never contact him again, which he did and I looked it over before sending. I also contacted her husband and told him to have her stop contacting my husband.

I think he has done some really big changes and shown me he wants this to work. I am just scared to trust again.

If he wants to show he can be trusted, this is the way to go. Polygraphs are very accurate if you get someone who is very good. Find a former policeman or FBI agent and they are typically very experienced. REfusing to take a polygrpah does not demonstrate trustworthy behavior. It should really set off your red flags. We have had some remarkable recoveries using this tactic.

A polygpaph test is an opportunity for him to prove his truthfulness. He should welcome it.

But this is KEY: when you hand him your questions tell him you are giving him a LAST CHANCE before the test to come clean. So anything new needs to come out now. On the test there will only be 2-3 questions, though. And he won't know which ones until the test.

Yes I know about Plan A but the affair has been over for almost a year

The terrifying thing about this story is that the OW *CAN* still contact him and his feelings are triggered every time. Telling you about it completely misses the point, because his "honesty" does nothing to negate the damage of continued contact. It is like an alcoholic taking another drink. Does being honest about drinking negate the damage done? NOT AT ALL!

Did you give her husband all your evidence of the affair?

Yes I sent the emails to him. He was very cold and said he will make sure she doesn't contact us again and not to contact him either.
My H did change jobs and phones since then.

I don't think there are others, but a polygraph will let you know for sure. It's important that this responsibility to create trust is on HIS shoulders, not yours.

The 'were there others' question is a very easy one for the polygraph to prove. Broad blunt questions and questions which don't rely on subtleties of memory are the best ones for the poly. Some people ask all their questions and just get the poly to say 'did you answer questions honestly' yes or no?

Imagine what this would do for your piece of mind. Quite honestly, he doesn't get it yet. He thinks this is about how unpleasant this betrayal might turn out for HIM!

Make it very clear your trust will not magically appear until he gives you cause.

I would strongly urge you to contact him directly because OW are NOTORIOUS about intercepting such emails. Don't you find it unusual that he would be very cold to you? You should call him up or somehow contact him in a way that can't be intercepted by the OW. If she even thinks you are leaving messages for him, she will have some other male pretending to be her husband call you back.


What about the email account she contacted him at?

I am not sure how to act right now. Like nothing is wrong?

Is this email account closed?

Of course not. Did you read my post? I spent a lot of time and thought on my post.

Mmmmm the big red flag there was 'don't contact me either'

A betrayed husband generally wants to know more or for you to let him know if it happens again.

Call him up direct and he will have no idea who you are I bet.

It was his work email and he doesn't work there anymore

ML I did read your post about an proposal but He still says he won't do the test. I guess I should ask him to leave then? Should I tie this all in with the disclosure? If so how do I act until then

Just deliver it as Melody Lane said; there's no need to make a drama out of it or threaten to move out. Just say if he does x (questions and poly) you will do y (feel more trusting and drop all mention of affair).

If you're afraid of what to do afterwards, or that you will have to deliver an ultimatum straight off, just say that's your offer he can consider it. Don't get dragged into a debate or made to feel you have to trust him. Just restate your feelings and drop it.

He is supposed to be the one petitioning for your forgiveness.

I could only get a home number and didn't want to use that because I thought she would answer. We talked through his facebook page. I only opened that page to follow her and contact him.

I think he will do it if you give him that proposal. Tell him you are giving him one last chance to come clean before the test. Sort of like an amnesty. If he spills his gut he will pass the test.

And yes, I would ask him to leave if he won't do that, because that is a clear indication he is hiding something from you and your marriage will never recover on that basis. This is the least he can do to earn your trust.

Did your husband know in advance you were doing this?

They often have FB covered especially if they are taking a risk and contacting a recovering couple.

Disguise your number and hang up unless a man answers.

No my H did not know that I contacted OWH

I would try another way to contact him outside of facebook. Even the dumbest OW knows to intercept such messages. I would contact him and give him all of your evidence. It is very likely that he does not even know.

Plan A is the negotiating period for affair recovery CONDITIONS. Ending the affair is just one of the conditions. If he won't provide you with Radical honesty, the carrot and stick of Plan A is required.

An important part of Plan A is acting like someone confident and who knows they are valuable. With standards for recovery. If you act like you might accept crumbs that's all you will get.

I really think you have a very good shot at getting him to take this test. Just put on your rock star act and behave like there is no question of how far he will go to prove himself.

See, he thinks he can get you to trust and you'll back down and that's that. Just repeat you expect it, calmly, and you will see how much he is wiling to recover.

Here. Polygraph Testing

Well I have exposed to my daughters and my friends and family. My husband doesn't know yet.

I did set up a Polygraph test for this Friday. He says he will take it but not happy about it.

I am not sure how he will take is when he finds out that I have told everyone. I think he will be very mad and not sure why I had to tell

So, none of them will discuss it with him? If none of these exposure targets will help you, I would tell your husband you have told everyone.


I would be sure and give him a list of questions that need to be answered BEFORE the test. Remember how I told you to do this?

Yes I will give him those questions before hand.

I just sent those emails off so just haven't heard from anyone yet. I explained that I would appreciate any calls or emails of support to both of us.

Be sure and tell him you have done this so he knows. The whole purpose of epxosure will be lost if he doesn't know.

Give him the list 2 days beforehand so he can answer all questions well before the test. The goal is to come clean FIRST so he will pass the test. Then you can decide the day of the test which 2-3 questions you will ask.

In other words, you should have the full truth and answers to all your questions BEFORE you even leave the house for the polygraph. The polygraph can only validate what he has told you.

I have been contacted by some family showing me support. Should I ask one of them to talk to H? If so what should they say since the affair is over and he wants to work on our marriage?

I heard from the OW daughter and she says, why did you feel the need to involve me in this. How do I answer her?

I would just let your husband know you have told the whole family so you could get support for your marriage. Have your children said anything to him yet?

I would just ignore the OW daughter.

No my daughters haven't seen him yet. One is still out of town. I really wanted to tell them in person but couldn't get them together so I talked with them separately. The older one said she assumed that because of a book that she saw we were reading.

Do you think I should wait to tell him until after the poly test?

I thought I would give you an update. My H took the polygraph test on Friday and passed.

I then told him that I had disclosed to family and friends about the affair and our girls. He was upset but not as mad as I thought he would be. He was more worried about our girls and how they reacted. He says he is not sure if he will be able to face my family. He has dropped that issue very quickly.

I have had several family members contact me and give us their support and open invite to talk if either of us needs to do so.

He wants to talk with our daughters but is not sure how to bring it up and not sure what to expect. He is not really good about communicating with them especially something like this. Both girls are feeling very uncomfortable about talking to him about this. Only one daughter has been at the house since I told him about disclosure and it was only for a few minutes before she went into her room. She doesn't want to talk to him without her sister.

We are working together on reading our book and meeting each other needs. It's been better but I really want him to tell the girls he wants to talk with both of them soon. I don't want this uncomfortable feeling to go on for too long. They need to talk.

What can I do to help move this along.

Good job! I would let your husband handle the issues with his daughters. That is his problem to handle. Naturally his daughters are disappointed and he can explain to them how he will protect their family in the future.

Are you pretty lined up now with a plan for recovery? Are you diligently following the lessons in SAA? I would hate to see you get this far and lose your marriage because you didn't follow recovery steps. Marriages that don't create marriages that were better before the affair tend to limp along until and often have repeat affairs.

htb, were you able to reach the OWH?

Yes we are following the recovery program of Dr Harleys. We have put the EP in place and are working on spending the undivided attention with each other. He has started new job, new phone and new email address.

Now I just need to work on letting it go and not bringing it up again. Thats what I am afraid of most. Hanging on to that resentment.

If you will follow this program diligently, you won't have resentment. Resentment comes when recovery is not complete. When you are happy in the present, the mind doesn't tend to go to the past.

It's been a while since I posted so I thought I would give an update. We have been doing good. He has been reading Marriage Builders material with me and following the plan. We have been spending more time together but when certain dates or events come along, my mind goes back to that time. Remembering what he did and wondering how he could do it and does he really love me or just playing the game again.

I really had a hard time with his birthday last month. From the work emails I came across, I know that they were together the day before his birthday.(a year ago) I had made big plans to make it a special day. We even went shopping for a special outfit for me to wear...something he would love! The emails showed me they were still together just more underground. It's been a year but the doubt comes back.

Can someone attach the link from the show where my email was addressed? It was the August 12 show. I would like to listen again if possible.

I have been looking for someone's thread that has dealt with the same issues and how they got past them. The past obsessive lying still keeps doubts in my mind. I don't think he is lying now but wonder if he is still thinking of her at times. It just scares me. Sometimes when we are in bed she pops in my head. Not a great time for my mind to wonder there.

I think what bothers me the most is that he says he never loved her and he never stopped loving me. I hate that he says that. He treated me horrible during that time. He was pushing me away. He made me hate him. I don't like to think he could do that to me but still loved me. I don't know if he is lying to me or himself about beng in love with her(then). I think he loved her but can't admit it. And I think he stopped loving me and wanted to leave. If he can't admit to himself how close he was to walking away from our marriage whats to keep it from happening again. Maybe he doesn't realize how dangerous that affair was to our marriage.

Can any WS tell me what goes on in your mind during something like that? Do you think about your lover once your are back with your spouse...once you've decided it was mistake? Should he admit to me what his feelings were during that time? Or doesn't it matter at this point?

The truth is that he did love her and he didnt love you. He is either so fogged out he doesn't realize that now or he just doesn't want to tell you. You need to assume that was the case. An affair is an addiction much like alcohol or crack, and the "love" is much like the HIGH one feels while high on drugs. It is unsustainable and based on a fantasy, but it is REAL.


What will prevent this from happening again is a) affair proofing your marriage and b) diligently working the basic concepts to create romantic love in your marriage. The romantic love you create will be REAL and it will be SUSTAINABLE. You have chance to do that. It will beat anything he had with skanky.

I would do everything in your power to stop thinking about skanky and most certainly you should not ever talk about it. That includes making posts about it. I would make this your LAST post about the affair. Instead, you should focus entirely on recovery.

Thanks, I know I need to keep my mind on the present. He is doing all the right things now. I hate myself when my mind slips into the past especially during SF.

He has been so good to me lately. We have been listening to the MB Radio show too. I know if I want this to work again I need to stay in the present! We just had our 30 year anniversary!

Here is the August 12 show. Have you been listening to the daily radio show since then?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=06558
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=06559
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=06560
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=06561
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=06562
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=06563

!

Yay!

Yes everyday
Thanks for the link!

The same thought processes that demonize the BS during an affair can be directed to demonize the AP after the affair. Even as the WS denies ever loving the BS during the affair, they can deny ever having been in love with the AP after the affair. What can you do? I think you should do nothing. It is always disrespectful to question another person's feelings. Just take what he says with a grain of salt.

Thanks MrEureka, I guess I just thought with open and honesty as one of my EN I should expect to hear the truth at least a year later. But you are right. I should not question his feelings. I know he loves me now and that's what's important.

I just found out about an old affair that my H had. It was a couple that we used to get together with all the time. They were very close family friends. Always came to all birthday parties. They were like aunt and uncle to our kids.

I am so hurt that he did this and even more with a friend of ours. I am hurt that she would do this to me also.

I hate them both so much right now. I don't even want to talk to him. My H told me last night that it was only a couple of times, kissing and touching but no more. He said it ended a long time ago. The couple of times it happened was when they were waiting for us to get back from a meeting for work.

When I called her today to get her side of the story she said that he made the first move(he admitted this also) and that they were both feeling lonely and wanted something new. She expressed how guilty and she felt after she did it. She told me how he called her all the time about getting together for lunch or dinner sometime. She did not want this and was sorry for what had happened already. She said it got to the point where she would just not answer his calls.

Then his calls stopped when he got involved with the affair that brought me here. That affair ended Sept. 2013.

My insides are boiling right now. I don't know where to go with all this anger. I told him I can't talk right now because I will only be mean to him.

I feel like I should just end this now. I am not sure if I love him anymore. I don't feel like I know him at all. Who is this man?

HTB,

Have you exposed to the OWH? Please do him that favor.

Before you decide to can your WH get him to take a polygraph. I suspect they got their story straight before WH spoke with you and are minimizing.

Do your children know about your WH?

Get tested for STDs.

God Bless
Gamma

Exposure is already been done. I had a poly done in august and on one of the questions were, "Are there any other affairs that your wife does not know about". He past and said no. I guess if he didn't think of this as an affair then he wasn't lying.

HTB,

Perhaps you need to take the approach of writing out a complete list of questions and having the polygraph operator ask if your WH answered ANY of those questions dishonestly.

And by exposure I ment the woman he claims only to have kissed and touched. I hope this woman is no longer an auntie figure to your children and your children are not friends with hers.

God Bless
Gamma

No, she is not "part of the family anymore" and definitely not now!

I had the test consist of two questions. One was "Have you answered all W questions about the OW honestly? The second was, "Are there any other affairs that you have not disclosed to your W?

I think he was able to pass because he does not think what he did would be considered having an affair.

Do you think that just kissing and touching would be considered an affair?

I did not expose this old affair that I just found out about or whatever you call it

How did you find out about the A with the family friend?

I had noticed there were several calls to her at different times...years ago. I asked why they were talking so much and told him that I was uncomfortable with the phones calls. He said there was nothing going on and he would not call anymore since it bothered me.

More recently since the exposure of the current affair, I started to think back to those calls. I brought it up again and pushed the issue about wanting to know if there was ever anything going on between the two of them. He confessed and said it was only kissing and touching a couple of times(more than 15 years ago). He stated how sorry he was for it and it never went further than that. He said he wanted to be honest and open and tell me the truth.

He wants to move forward with the MB recovery plan. He wants to order the online program and work through it together.

He keeps telling me how much he loves me and this will never happen again. I want to believe but am so hurt that he would even think about kissing another women. How could he love me and do those things?? She was a close friend. How could either of them do this to me?

I do keep track of his texts and emails. I have a gps to check his locations so I know where he is at all times. Maybe I shouldn't have asked or pushed to get this information out of him. Maybe I should have just been ok with us being good now. We have been doing really good but this new information is hard to handle.

Dr. Harley states that once the BS has all of the facts about their spouses affair, then that subject should not be discussed further ever again.

Unless you discovered further information which felt like you were being lied to, then all you did was bring Past Hurts into the present.

Is your FWH following all of the EP's that are suggested in the Surviving An Affair book?

LTL

Yes he is doing all the EP that are needed. He has been really great with trying to meet my EN. This old affair is from years in the past but he did lie about it when I asked if there was anything that happened with this W. I had asked about this when we were talking about the recent affair.

Now I wish I would had just left it in the past. You are right that I just brought it to the present and now I am hurting again even though he is trying is best to follow the program.

I guess at this point I am not following the program. I need to stay in the present. For some reason I just needed to know about this one person. Now I want to unknow....

Was/is the OW married?

Are all avenues that allowed his affair been closed?

I'm very sorry for this blow to your heart, mind and understanding of your marriage.

You have pointed out that your husband has changed his work e-mail, work phone etc. Did he put down his facebook page? Just blocking someone leaves the possibility of contact via another alias open. Did you change your home phone number?

Be sure to include a question about if he ever inappropriatly kissed, touched, contacted any other person during your relationship that you would like to know about. You can post the question here to review the wording. He is obviously hiding things and it is very concerning that he passed the polygraph regardless. Polygraphs are not bad, but there is a reason that they are not used in European law inforcement.
You may want to speak to the person performing the polygraph in advance.

The OW that I just found out about is not married but has a live in boyfriend of many years. This inappropriate kissing and touching happened more than 10 years ago. I asked my FWH about her again because I remembered feeling like there was something going on back then. When I had him take the polygragh recently, I had the question about...Were there any other affairs. I wish I would have worded it differently like..inappropriate kissing and touching.

When I recently asked him again about it, he did confess to the inappropriate behavior. He said he wanted to be transparent and open and honest like the program says. He felt like he just didn't want to hurt me further with this old information. He said it was wrong and he was very sorry to hurt me again.

All venues that lead to this affair have been closed. New place of work, close email acct, new phone number and facebook has been closed for over a year.

I am thinking about telling the person who did the polygragh about the lie not being caught. It cost a lot of money to ask those questions. I would think there would have been some sort of deception caught from the lie.