I don't really know what we're arguing about here.

I thought you'd decided to do what everybody else has done and stop having a friendship with this man, because of what he's done to his family. Are you going to do that or not?

I don't know why you are bringing up your sexuality again if your relationship with him is over. It seems as if it's being brought up to justify continuing to be friends with him.

I'm talking about the nearly 30 years of friendship we have had over the years. There was nothing inappropriate about it.

And, yes, I am backing off of the friendship. But I never heard anybody have the belief that gay men and straight women/straight men and gay women couldn't be very close friends. I obviously have a million friends in the gay community. All of them have close, married friends of the opposite sex and different sexual preference.

You may be right about her issue, but it doesn't matter. She doesn't want a friendship with you (for herself or her husband) and you just have to accept that. That is quite a normal thing to happen when a couple marries - for some of their previous friendships to end. I can appreciate that it's upsetting, but there is nothing that you can do about it. You have no "rights" to that friendship.

I appreciate that you haven't heard that belief. I think that a lot of people would find that belief preposterous.

However, the people who post in this particular forum have had experience of affairs in our own marriages (for the most part) and we have also read hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of threads on this forum about affairs in other people's marriages. We have seen affairs that developed between the most unlikely people. We have read Dr Harley's analysis of how romantic relationships are formed - both affairs and non-affairs - and his analysis fits what we observed in our own marriages and the affairs that rocked them. Romantic relationships are formed through the successful meeting of the other person's emotional needs.

That's all it takes. It takes a willingness by the married person to let those needs be met - what we sometimes call "loose boundaries" - by another person.

We could all have affairs; even the betrayed spouses here, who at first could not understand how their unfaithful spouse could do such a thing to them, know now that we could easily have affairs if we let another person meet our emotional needs.

You may believe (or "know") that you could never have a relationship with a man under any circumstances. I don't know you and I wouldn't accept your word on that; I would need to know a lot more about your emotional make-up to be able to believe that, but it doesn't matter if we disagree. There is no point in arguing with each other about hypothetical situations.

You may think that this wife is wrong to see you as a threat - whether because of your sexuality or because you are from "the past' - but again, it doesn't matter whether she is right or wrong. What matters is that this man is now married to her and she has the right not have unwanted people in her marriage.

Your posts are very confused. You originally said that you were conflicted about staying friends with a man you previously respected who is now in an affairage; there was a moral question about whether you should stay friends with him. After some discussion you seemed to accept that, as a person with a conscience you would have to end this friendship. But as your posts have progressed, you seem to be more offended that his wife doesn't want to stay friends with you, and you seem to be fighting for your right to be friends with someone with whom you've had a 30 year relationship. The question of the affairage seems to have fallen by the wayside.

I think if you've taken the moral decision not to have anything more to do with someone who is in an affairage, you shouldn't care about his wife's attitude to you. You should wear her dislike as a badge of honour! You should follow through on your conscientious decision and not have anything to do with either of them.

The fact that your friendship continued after he was married was inappropriate. Being a lesbian does not mean you cannot fill his Lovebank. HIS Lovebank does not care if YOU are gay. There are a lot more emotional needs than just sex, and they should be met by his wife, not you. Your friendship gives a nice contrast effect for him.

And yes, the same is true for gay men and married women. My husband would not want me to be good friends with a gay man -- not because he's gay, but because he's male. That sets up a very dangerous situation in which the friend could meet some very important emotional needs for me that my HUSBAND should be meeting.

As a general rule, if your married friends came here and wanted advice to save their marriage they would be advised to end all opposite sex friendships.

There is too much potential for affairs.

Based on your posts, it's obvious that you are attracted to this man. he meets your emotional needs and you are upset that his new wife doesnt want you around.

I would find a new friend that isnt married.

Well, did you?

About 60% of marriages will suffer at least one affair during the course of the marriage. About 40% of marriages end in divorce; 20% end in permanent lifelong separation; 20% stay married but are unhappy.

Only 20% of marriages actually end up happy.

Most people's beliefs do not contribute toward happy marriages or toward protecting marriages from affairs. The vast majority of people have beliefs that do exactly the opposite.

That doesn't stop him from going for you, though. Even if he never acts on it.

If a MARRIED man is willing to have a friendship with you, he has poor boundaries around women and is very likely open to affairs/affairages.

I'm not sure how much clearer we can make it that the problem is that this MARRIED MAN did something that was very common yet very destructive for his marriage: he had female friendships! I fear she is so busy being defensive that she's not going to listen.

Stella,

I would tell your friend that you are unhappy about his affair, and you cannot hide this fact. Friendships are dependent on honesty. Without honesty, your friendship is superficial. And it will be anyway, because you won't be able to get past your disgust.

The best thing at this point to tell him the truth and then cut ties with him and his affair partner.

She is defensive because she feels she is safe. People commonly accept the myth that there are "safe" attributes, i.e. the woman is already married, or she is a lesbian, or she is a nun, or she is extended family, etc. People can fall in love with anybody who makes enough love bank deposits. Nobody is safe ignoring that. Those of us who manage to avoid affairs do so by guarding our love banks. That means - no friendships where we can make deposits in other people's love banks, or where they can make deposits into ours.

I'm a bit stumped here and, even though it doesn't apply to me, I tend to be a logical thinker and am having trouble reconciling some of the logic here. So, let me explain issue with what previous posters have said using examples:

I am a female and have a female friend who gets married or, maybe, we're both married. We allowed to remain friends even though she is/we both are married because we are of the same gender.

A male who has a male friend who gets married or, maybe both are married, are allowed to remain friends even though he is or they both are married because they are of the same gender.

A lesbian (meaning sexually attracted to other females) is allowed to be friends with a woman who is married because they are the same gender (even though she is sexually attracted to females) but not allowed to be friends with married males (even though she is not sexually attracted to them)?

A gay man (meaning he is sexually attracted to other males) is allowed to be friends with a man who is married because they are the same gender (even though he is sexually attracted to males) but not allowed to be friends with married females (even though he is not sexually attracted to them)?

Who, then, are homosexuals allowed to be friends with? Only non-married individuals and never anyone who is married?

Did anyone actually say that?

Or this?

Well, I don't know the answer to that. This site is dedicated to traditional marriages, and we do know the pitfalls of friendships for spouses in such marriages.

The Harleys recommend that our spouse should be our favorite recreational partner and that a great marriage requires a minimum of 15 hours every week meeting the four intimate emotional needs.

The challenge with homosexuals is that they can and do cross over, as anyone can if the other person is meeting their emotional needs, especially the intimate ones.

I was just listening to Friday's show in which he said that, in general, if a marriage is great, then a spouse usually won't be tempted by a same sex relationship. A woman can simply enjoy the friendship of another woman without it turning into a problem for the marriage; however, when a spouse notices that he or she would rather spend time with another person other than his or her spouse, this needs to be addressed and changed.

Another problem is that if a straight person is close personal friends with a same-gender homosexual, love units can be deposited into the homosexual's love bank and cause that person to be attracted to the spouse. This is just as dangerous as if an OS person falls in love with someone's souse, even if the spouse is not in love the OS person.

The bottom line is that this man has a wife and she does not want her husband to have a friendship with this woman, the original poster.

Everybody is allowed to be friends with whoever they want in life, assuming the other person also wants to be friends with them.

But if you want to have a happy and successful marriage that never experiences infidelity, then you need to rule out at least two kinds of friendships: a) friends of the opposite sex, and b) any friend your spouse is not enthusiastic about.

If you are outside of the marriage, it's not the marriage's job to make sure you have friends. The purpose of marriage is to provide for the married people, not to provide friends for everybody else in the world. I can remember at least once when a female friend ended a friendship with me and I presumed she was doing it because she was married. I was offended. But she was doing the right thing! And even though I was offended at the time, my feelings on the matter weren't her problem or her husband's. I just had to go find other friends. (Today this wouldn't happen because I wouldn't be that kind of friends with a married woman in the first place!!!)

He is a man who is attracted to women, so it is entirely possible that just by being his friend, and giving him platonic admiration (respecting his character etc) you were meeting his needs in a more powerful way than any male friend can.

From reading your posts you strike me as a very moral person who despises affairs. I am not saying you were a potential affair, I don't think he thought so either.


It's just that people who have affairs like to have attention from the opposite sex. They don't intend for it to become sexual or romantic when they go looking for that but often it does, as it has with his affair.

As a woman who was friends with a straight man, you trusted him to have proper boundaries around women. To be respectful in his thoughts towards you and to be open and honest about his female friendships to his wife. It's clear you respect his wife and you would not have been friends with him had you suspected he was hungry for the attentions of the opposite sex on the side, in a secretive way.

That's why you feel sick. You gave platonic friendship but now he has been proven untrustworthy you are not so sure how it was received.

I'd feel sick too. I would offer my support to his wife and befriend her in her time of need. If he ever goes crawling back to her on his knees (95 pc of affairages end in two years) both he and she will remember your stand and value you as a friend to the marriage.