I do need to do plan B. I had contact today and realized I might have something akin to PTSD from it all. High anxiety, panic. Horrible feelings. I was feeling pretty good up until then.

Plus it is such a drag to talk to him. It is like talking to a brick wall. I think I did a good job of expressing my requests, and getting confirmation back. He just shuts down and when I query, he tells me he doesn't agree. I've asked him repeatedly to ask his parents about opposite sex relationships and how they handled them (they have from what I can tell a great marriage - and not a single opposite sex relationship to be seen. What friends I have seen have seemed to be other couples.)

So I wrote to his mum and told her he is essentially dating other women and thinks my requests for him to stop are controlling. I asked her to talk to him about this - I said something along the lines of 'not sure how you feel about this, but you have had a much longer successful marriage than I have.' I also told her I am trying to save this marriage but this issue is causing huge problems.

The fact that he would never talk to his folks about makes me guess he knows the answer is not going to be the one he wants.

And he's going to be pissed, but jeez guy, if you don't want people to know you are doing it, don't do it.

Got the paperwork for the lease, other appointments made and phone numbers obtained for getting help getting info. So not depending on his butt to do anything. Not depending on his butt to do anything at all, in fact.

I am so tired of this. What a frickin' downer.

Have you seen this?
How to Plan B Correctly

Yes, I have seen that.

This contact was talked about with Dr. Harley in our phone counseling.

I am not in plan B at the moment.

Update - I never apologized to that woman. Not a peep from H about it - rather surprised on that.

It was a very brass-necked and shameless request. However if you say something with enough conviction it usually works. Something that occurs to each and every wayward.

You've peeked behind the curtain of the great and powerful Oz and seen it's just a clueless and frightened man.

That is quite par for the course with waywards. They are cheats pretending to be heroes. Easy to take the wind out of their sails.

indiegirl, thank you. I spend a lot of last night and this am reading your story. What a journey!

I'm blowing my day when I need to be writing. This is my last post, before I get to work so I don't put feeling crappy for not getting my stuff done on top of the pile of crappy I already have.

Got the 'love you deeply but not interested in rekindling romantic love speech' from him last night. Should have mentioned that. And a list of every single time I did a LB. Told me he was trapped with me, and I was mean to him and insulting to his family. He especially hates me, it seems, for trying to keep others away who meet his needs, but refuses to let me do it myself. Gah.

One more planned contact coming up to celebrate finishing his qualifying test, then the next day up in the city where I've been working. It will be our four year anniversary, and is supposed to be followed by him dropping me off at the airport and then taking the car back down to the city where we live. I'm leery of all of it, but last part has my spidie sense tingling. He told me 'he was keeping his word' on the car issue. Didn't seems so concerned about keeping his word when it came to spending time together.

My thoughts are to do the best plan A I can for the evening and the celebration and send him down on the train instead of letting him driving me to airport. He'd be livid at the change of plans, but I foolishly added his name on the car title (I bought it long before meeting him) and it would seem possession is 9/10ths of the law. He can't sell it without my signature, but he could be surly about giving it back. Granted he is supposed pick me up the following week with it at a different airport.

The locks will be changed by then (for sure) and the lease agreement updated (I hope.)

The celebration is with all the school buddies he has used to replace me. The plan is for me to at least make my presence known, but to have an emergency exit if things get painful. No drinking for me that night. Need my wits.

It will be plan B after that I think for my own sanity. I have to spend $300/week on plane tickets, and spend considerable effort to be in his town weekends during the school year. It seems foolish to keep doing that.

Unfortunately all that I own is in the town that he lives in! He abandoned the apartment all of our household stuff, all the wedding gifts, all my personal stuff. It is kind of shocking he would just leave it all. I mean, most of the glassware was fancy beer steins he had to have. And fancy pots. And I like this town more than where I go to school. What a mess. My life is, literally, all over the country.

Ah yes it's a good tale! With a happy ending

Are you snooping to do a mega-exposure? I'd guess he is definitely having overnights with her and don't expect to be caught with their pants down. A PI could do that for you.

However since there's no children and he is a horrible catch you could just tell everyone he is dating other women as your exposure and go straight into Plan B.

His languauge towards you is that of someone in a full blown affair but of who has no intention of letting you go.

See he convinces himself he can date other women because you are awful. However he's told you you can stay on his hook if you work on yourself. See how that works?

Just wondering how things are going and if you have moved into Plan B?

I have not yet moved into Plan B.

I talked to the wife of a couple friend of ours and let her know what was going on. She was shocked at the treatment I've received from H, since he is 'always so nice'. She, I'm sure, told her husband, who H considers a close friend. I don't think they are on his side with how he deals with other women.

He didn't want to talk on the phone with me tonight, told me to show up two hours after he celebrates with his friends tomorrow, that he isn't on my side, and that he's embarrassed by my actions. I told him that wasn't okay. This after I told him I was deeply offended his actions with that woman. He finally did ask again about the apology and I told him that I am not going to say what was going on with him and that woman was okay, and that I'm deeply offended by their conversations.

He finally just told me not to show up tomorrow and hung up on me. Normally I'd call him back and fight/try to deal with it. Not in the mood. I still have to go back to get my stuff and pack, as well as get the locks changed.

The PI is an issue since he doesn't have a car and lives two hours away from both people I contacted (no one is this small town). That and the group living situation makes it really hard to follow him. Cars are such dead giveaways on location.

Since SH asked me about divorce compensation, I don't think there is much hope for this one. He told me that my H is 'lost inside himself' and 'I'm only going to get so far, it is like talking to a drunk'. I'm not even sure what that means, except it isn't good for having a mature relationship. At least that has been my experience.

This is a great plan

Okay, I'll be honest, I am having some difficulty telling people that my husband went on dates. Perhaps it is the brain washing, perhaps not, but I've already got some push back from that woman's family that I am blowing things all out of proportion.

In this society, lots of people seem to think that is fine and dandy.

I think a lot of people are going to come after me for saying that having coffee with a woman is a date.

Has anyone had experience with something that isn't full blow PA? Please see my previous notes about PI issues for getting that evidence. He's had passwords on his phone and computer for forever and I have no access now anyhow.

Any proof of a romantic relationship the PI brings you makes it an affair - it doesn't have to be a PA. There's also nothing wrong with telling people you disapprove of his going on dates! This makes it clear you are not sanctioning this and it makes it look a lot less innocent. When you say you are 'having trouble' are you still drafting exposures? It should be done all at once.

Exposure should also be a shock too to prevent the affairees 'getting their story straight'. I am not sure why OWs friends are contacting you to say it is too far if you are still waiting on a PI? Have they had exposure from you or is OW telling them things?

If it were me; I wouldn't apologise for objecting to my husband dating another woman! You will need confidence there. I'd feel sorry for those with such low standards. You have already highlighted very inappropriate behavior; the stupid will always fail to see what is pointed out clearly.

You could use PI evidence to later do a more public cheaterville exposure copying in the naysayers who will then just seem foolish. No need to allow any responses either. Hit and run. You could do that from within Plan B.

If your PI is a hack - get another one!

Okay, I'm going to try to make this clearer.

First off, my husband proposed we split before we ever got to this town. It was in the fall, when we were about to leave for here and his grad school. I had already paid the down payment on the apartment and flown us out to get it. The root problem we have/had was AO/DJ and terrible communications. Resentment abounding for both of us. I do more AO. He does more DJ and leaving me as punishment. This is what I wanted to work on and fix in our marriage, as well as meeting EN that were totally neglected such as FS and RA. I supported him for two years, hating it, and he hates the fact I hated it. He said "I never had any money". Who's fault is that?!?

We had done the program for a while in the winter and things were better. We were also able to spend more time together. It is pretty clear how the more time we have, the better things are. My taking this job over the summer two hours away was the stupidest thing I've done in a while.

Known Dating incident #1 - last December. I was at the Doctors, he went to coffee with a woman who brags about how much better life is after she left her husband. He told me I was way out of line when I burst into tears and asked he never do that again. I contact this woman twice directly when he refuses to stop. She finally backs off, but spreads gossip around about me that husband blames me for. I am ruining his life. (of course) We do get past this incident (I think).

He does respect my request not to climb with another women I find to be a threat.

Known Dating incident #2 - this summer, after he moves out. He tells me that he told a third woman he had moved out, against my wishes , because "she deserved to know". I kid you not. I come to find out that they have had conversations about me, and she attacked me and he did not defend me, nor told me about it. Rather, he has gone out of his way to protect her from me when I also contacted her directly, stating that what he told her was a direct violation of our confidence as man and wife. I saw a text message saying he would leave the group outing with me if I 'was a problem'. I got no such reassurance from him. In fact, he cancelled our planned hour alone together and went right to group outing. I arrive to find him talking to her. This culminated in his lying about her being at his group home for dinner a different night, and me going there on a hunch, standing outside crying while he wants to go back inside to have dinner with the lot of them. I wrote to her long distance boyfriend and six of her family members telling them of my husband and I's separation and asking for their help in influencing this woman to give us some space to work on our marriage. I did not do a full exposure. Frankly, I got scared.

Steve Harley said I did nothing wrong since my goal is to protect my marriage. H of course thinks I did, since his goal is to protect his relationship with these people.

We were supposed to go out tonight, but last night he asked that I show up two hours later so he could be with all these friends without me, because he is embarrassed by me, and we could go out with a mutual friend after that. I said that wasn't okay. I told him that I had also told a mutual (woman) friend what he had done in incidents #1 and #2 and people know how he treats me. He flips, tells me he is done and hung up on me.

I sent him a copy of our wedding vows that we said in front of 160 people and pointed out that, aside from his parents, no one in his life has shown him more care than I have. Certainly not these acquaintances he is putting above me.

That was it. Normally, I'd call back, and try to get him to change his mind. Especially since he knows we had a plan requiring his help with the car. And it is our wedding anniversary tomorrow. We were going to spend it together.

#1. I want to be treated better.
#2. I do still (sadly) want my husband back

I don't think plan B is going to work at getting him back while he has as these people at school and work taking care of him. Steve Harley called them enablers. There are too many. It will work to protect me I guess, and make a divorce less painful in the end (I saw that on your thread indie).

OK - I understand where you are at and you are right on schedule. Give the PI a few days - two should be plenty - to 'come up with the goods'. Tell him it should take no longer than that as you could do it yourself.

As I've said you don't really need PI evidence because his behaviour is so blatant but I know in your shoes I'd want to blow the lid off it and do the most shocking exposure possible.

In the meantime prepare for Plan B. You've put up with enough of this nonsense for long enough and your priority is to get yourself into a haven.

Perhaps, if really you want to, send him a 'happy anniversary' message - so as to Plan A right up to Plan B - but I would certainly go no further than that and I would make sure I was unavailable for any of these exhausting conversations you two have. Maybe tell him you are going somewhere with no cell reception for the day and turn your phone off!

No more debates, wrangling or sending him his vows. He was there. He knows right from wrong. Talking to an affairee is like talking to a drunk person.

Better to paint your nails, take a bubble bath, call the PI and get an early night.

Right. Thanks Indie.


Exposure list:
My family
His family
His school mates where this is happening
The few contacts I know for him at that workplace.

You'll find plenty of people who don't agree, and that's fine. They can't do anything to you. The point is to get the facts out there, because that will put pressure on the affair, even if some people think it is fine and dandy.

If anyone wants to debate you about it, just don't debate them. There's no rule in life that says that when someone makes a debate point you have to convince them.

The people who are listening to 'it's innocent friendship to date the OS' nonsense fall into two camps: a) naive people who will learn either i) when the affair gets more and more blatant before their eyes or ii) when they themselves are cheated on for being naive (this one was me).

The second camp, b) are evil people who allow evil to go on as they do the same stuff themselves.

So either the affair partners find themselves surrounded by either foolish or evil friends as the good and the wise desert them. If they have also protested their innocence too much, the relationship can never see the light of day without alerting the naive (see a)i )

Affairs are rocky, horrible things. With exposure they are stuck in an affair without a nice or wise person in sight offering them support.

Then if they choose to abandon the affair and recover there is the question of who their friends are once they are back in the marriage.

The betrayed spouse should be sure to exclude everyone who was not supportive during exposure. Exposure is often about compiling a useful 'know thine enemy' list.

I think an affair is an affair whether it be an EA or a PA, your spouses EN needs are being met by someone else creating his "fog".....

I'm in plan B now. I sort of screwed up exposure by posting it as a status on Facebook rather than contacting people directly. I'm going to finish that up now and go to bed early.

I need an IM.

The last straw was I went home to visit family out of state, a trip my H didn't want to talk because it would only be two days for him. Instead, my husband invited woman number 2 to go over to a couple's house that we do things with and the four of them were watching football there together. I object, via text, asking him to call. He tells me he is charging his phone, but in the meanwhile he tells me I cannot tell him who to see and that he didn't keep a secret of it (implying he did nothing wrong.) I post what is going* on in my Facebook status and tag his family.

*I posted that my husband is dating several women in his school department and will not stop. I asked people to tell him that is not an okay thing to put a wife through.

He writes back he will come and get me Thursday at the airport but after that he never wants to talk to me ever again.

Before this came to a head, I did contact the couple, both of them, letting them know what was going on. They don't want to say anything because 'it would be awkward'. I stopped reading the messages after that. They are not friends.

I will never see, talk, email or otherwise see this man unless this behavior comes to a complete stop. I already have a rental car arranged from the airport. I just need some way to get my car keys back. I need an IM.

I think his family hates me, I've already been criticized for making this public, I feel very lonely. Any support would be greatly welcomed.