Seeds are nice. And I agree. Should I make this a simple standard sentence, face to face. or should I write a small letter?

I spoke t my sister to and she asked me, why I have not just put my foot down and tell her like it is.

I don't really know why.

Here is one of the tidbits of gems contained that you can use.

Read through the Carrot And The Stick thread that is in the 1st Sticky Post in this SAA Sub-Forum for the rest of the great self help info.

LTL

.

.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.


Plan A is often misunderstood as "acting nice"

excuse me acting "nice' in the face of an affair makes me want to puke

Plan A is taking control of one's self ...it is NOT "acting nice" ~as if~ there was no infidelity eating away at your family .... infidelity hurts like battery acid poured on your skin

am I right?

heII yes I am right

so you scared and panicky betrayed ~~~> SPEAK UP

tell the truth

"This affair hurts me. This affair is going to destroy our family. Let's get help."

If your spouse does something really thoughtless ... SPEAK UP.

"What you just said (did) hurts me terribly."

"I feel wounded by your affair."

"My heart aches for the love we used to share."

But be careful ... don't get needy or whiney or weepy ... those are love-busters

it's a fine line between telling the truth about what hurts ... and staying away from LB behaviors

ASK for help from the board

if you are unsure if what you are doing is correct... examine how much self control you have at any given moment ... and if you are feeling in control of yourself ... you are probably right on the money !

if you feel yourself losing control ... step away and re-groupRead through the Carrot and The Stick Thread in the Start Here 1st post sticky at the top of this sub-forum.

I talked to her tonight and told her the truth of how I feel, and that this is not fair. She said that I am not respecting her space, and I mentioned that she did not respect me by doing what she has done. She is still living in the past on my lack of perfection. She also said that her "plan" was to spend the rest of her life with him. I know this is just a phase thing, but it hurt to hear. I left it alone and the conversation ended.

Her claim is that she cannot get over the past and still believes she is in love with him.

After the call I texted her "You are not being fair, and I am not done fighting for you. I meant my vows and I will not give up on you. Because you are worth fighting for."

This statement would have been a lot stronger and would have gone a lot further if you hadn't started it with "You are not being fair." That's debatable, and it's likely she didn't hear the rest of what you said because of that.

Don't debate her on fairness anymore.

Billman, are you listening daily to Dr. Harley's radio show? I had to make a complete life transformation, moving from living a bad marriage lifestyle that I learned in a bad marriage culture to learning and living a good marriage lifestyle from a good marriage culture.

Dr. Harley and his wife Joyce have had a good marriage for 50 years. I learned a lot from listening to them every day. You are going to need it. Sit in class every day!

Get the Marriage Builders app on your phone or tablet so you can listen to the show from anywhere. It runs 24 hours a day.

Bman12 - was that you on the radio today? Talking about having angry outbursts at inanimate objects?

Wow, that was me several years ago. I used to go through the self checkout line at the grocery store and have angry outbursts at the kiosk. I would make a loud commotion yelling at the machine if it did anything I didn't like. Then I'd turn to the cashier and cheerily talk about how great it was to get your frustrations out at an inanimate object instead of a person with feelings that might be hurt.

Of course, the truth was I was just rehearsing the habit of anger over and over, making myself more and more irrational and more and more prone to jump to such temporary insanity any time anything frustrated me.

I looked like an imbecile, too. Yelling at a computer - good grief. I'll never forget the first time I heard Dr. Harley describe his years-ago angry outburst at the carburetor of his car and thought - "Hey, that's me!"

I was probably scaring the living daylights out of the poor cashiers, too.

Yes that was me. Can you help me find my "segment" to download?

I thought the same thing. Getting mad at an object rather than a person I thought was a healthy release. Looking back, I likely just scared my wife into thinking I could kill someone, or maybe even her.

I will post it to your thread as soon as it shows up in the archives, but for now it will repeat until tomorrow's show. Have you listened to it yet today?

Also, what did you think about the advice you received?

No I have not been able to listen to my portion. I did listen to some others. Yes the advice was perspective I have not yet seen or thought of. Too bad it was not a longer session. But yes it was very helpful, and I cannot wait to get the books.

Remember you can always follow up with them if you need more help and/or call back in.

I doubt it.
Years ago, I worked the graveyard shift at Denny's.
The most strange, crazy people would come in along with the drunks yelling and complaining.
The workers quickly get used to it.

Yep, so it made them class me as "drunk or crazy" instead of "decent person I enjoy seeing come in here as a customer."

I heard your call on the Radio Show.
Did you tell Dr. Harley about the circumstances of how you had your OC?
Did you ask him if he recommended a polygraph to show your wife?

Sir, you must realize that your story sounds crazy. That you were raped by a teenage girl while drunk. Your wife will probably never believe your version and that will not help your case.
Did you tell Dr. Harley about this?

No I did not mention it on the show. I emailed and stated it after and have not yet heard a reply. I know how it sounds - but what could I possible say. Believe me, it would be easier to just say I had an affair.

The reason I did not offer it on the show is due to the nature of how it sounds. I wanted to explain it Off the show and get a side opinion before asking it on the show. Maybe I will get on another show.

I don't think I heard any mention of your addiction to online games, either. I was quite surprised to hear you say that you were "not good" and also "not bad" as a husband and father. You did not talk about the fact that you never paid any attention to the children or took them out or played with them. I think you were much more honest on this board about your failings and you did not like the reaction and advice you were given, and I got the impression that you left out the details of the OC and addiction for that reason. You don't think you were that bad or that your wife has any real justification for not wanting to get back with you, and you were not going to tell Dr H anything to make him criticise you as your wife does.

Even if your wife believes your story of being raped and does not think you had an affair, the presence of an OC whom you have to maintain for years to come is bound to have been affecting your marriage. If you don't give Dr Harley full information, how is his advice going to be accurately targeted? How useful can the phone advice be when really serious bits of pertinent information were left out?

However, even with the main omissions mentioned here, Dr Harley made it clear that you were not a good husband, that you must get to an effective anger management class and that you have to work on your behaviour if you want to stand a chance of winning your wife back. Her certainly did not endorse your idea that when your wife complains about you, she should be told that you are normal and not that bad a husband:

The gaming addiction ended with our last split, I don't play anymore.

When I said not good and not bad, what I meant was not awful, I was not a horrible father. I did spend time with them, it was just at my convenience, not theirs. That was the mistake.

The reaction to the advice is nothing, I have heard it time and time again from everyone I have been honest about, including the board. Honestly the reason I did not bring up the OC was nervousness of being on the show. I forgot to include it in the first email. I said such in a second one asking to come back on the show.

I am not worried about being put in my place, I need that to heal and learn.

But also, I do understand how the OC can affect my wife. But on a serious flip side, if my wife were raped and had a child - whether she put herself in that situation or not - I would never hold that against her. I'd have to find a way to deal, but I surely would not blame her. But I understand your reaction, because just like most, you don't believe it so your animosity is understandable.

Also your last sentence, " she should be told that you are normal and not that bad a husband" - how in the world can I tell her this in a way I haven't already. (Edit, nvm, I just understood what you wrote, and what was said.)

The problems we are facing right now: She cannot or does not want to or has no reason to forgive my past. She is unwilling to take another chance. And the biggest part: she believes that she and the OM are in love. And we have NO link between us other than our children - whom I will not use as tools. We have no family or mutual friends that talk to us both. I am at a huge disadvantage.

Surely you get my point: that the gaming addiction was one of the ways that you were a HORRIBLE husband. If you were going to tell Dr H about what you did wrong as a husband, an addiction that absorbed all your attention and energy should have been disclosed. And it didn't make you "not good" and "not bad" as a husband and father - it made you horrible. If you can't see that, no wonder your wife wants nothing to do with you.

I don't have animosity to you. I don't know you. What I am expressing is incredulity about the rape story.

Here's the show.
Radio Clip of Billman12's Show

The other morning she called me up asking for a jump, the batter died in our vehicle. I did not show excitement, but I stopped working and borrowed my mother's car and went the two blocks to jump the car. She was thankful and "nice" to me. We have not spoken since (2 days).

People are saying she has me wrapped around her finger. Plan A says meeting her needs, and show the better person. Is being there for her enabling her to use me, or doing the right thing?

I do not know where to draw a line, or whether to even draw one. Is she using me, or did she appreciate my being able to help her. Do I say no next time, or say yes but at my availability. Hard to get, or always ready. Show her love or show her pain (without whinny pity crybaby).