I am in a weird situation and I'll explain the backstory before I get to the point.

My wife and I have been married almost 4 years. We have had a lot of ups and downs in the past to the point we separated in 2012 and reconciled in the same year when I got orders to Germany. I really couldn't see myself moving to another country and giving up on our family so I asked for another chance. Fast forward a year later 2013. Things weren't as great as I thought they turned out to be. There was a lot of left over resentment between the both of us and we didn't follow up with counseling when we got to Germany. Some days were fine, some days were crappy. She eventually got a job and she was going to school full time. It really weighed on our marriage because she would drive 2 hours there and back to work everyday. The only time we would see each other was in the mornings we she left, the evenings when she got back which were filled with homework and the weekends. We weren't really utilizing the weekends like we should have. October '13 I cheated with a woman I met online. We had been messaging back and forth for a month or 2.

I found 2 times to meet this woman, one of those we only had because the distance she lived I knew I would never have time to see her again. My wife end up quitting her job but one random night this woman texted me from an unknown # at 2am. My wife discovered it and called her, OW blasts everything. My wife confronts me but she's really calm, asking what could she do better or what did she do that led to this. I wasn't really informative about everything and shutdown.

Skip to 2014. I got slotted for my deployment in Oct '13. I was scheduled to leave Feb 14 but I had training. I actually left on shaky ground between my wife and I. I get through training, come home and they said I need more training so my deployment got pushed back to July. I leave for training again in April and come home in June. The month between prior to my departure wasn't what I expected either. I was still trying to wrap up my music before I left, spend time with family, and keep things kosher. I leave mid july.

Over the course of about 3-4 months in I noticed a bunch of flags going off with her. Now, not to mention I started that online acct again while on my deployment. She said she found the acct probably 2 weeks after I arrived to the desert. There were some suspicious status messages she saw, I admit. I initially told her I had the page to promote my music but eventually my intent became malicious. I had talked to a lot of women and quite a few back in Germany. Exchange messages and pictures through a phone app. Idk what happened really but something made me feel really guilty and even before she found the acct I thought in the back of my mind if she ever did, things would be over for us.

So as time goes on, I eventually remove all my pics, delete all the women I added, messages and I had the acct removed by november. She went on a trip October (2014) to italy and after she got back she just became really different. The flags I noticed was she became harder reach, she stopped emailing me at work gradually, she kept boasting about her weight loss and how all the men kept hitting on her, there were a number of things. Things that really caught my attention was when I asked her was she cheating because her actions said she was. She said no but she has had many opportunities. Im like wtf? I remember asking her for a pic in beginning of november. She use to always send me nude or videos, some motivation. When I asked in November she said she refused to send such a pic or video because it made her feel awkward. Then she said her and I were on bad terms. She said these things after I had already sent her flowers and a sweet email.

Now I forgot to mention, I kept pressuring her right up until halloween about these things. Eventually she started saying she was dating a guy from her college class she met in october but after I kept pushing it she said she met him september and they had sex before she went to Italy. For awhile after I was devastated, felt like everything was crumbling around me and by that time I was 60% finish with my deployment. It felt like the days were flying by and then they slowed down completely. Eventually I started messaging her on the app I got back in July (when I should have been messaging her when I got it in July). I started asking a lot of questions, it was very hard to get her to open up. I even sent my mentor before he left to talk to her cause his he and his wife both know my wife. He said that he thought nothing he said got to her and she might have already been gone mentally.

Eventually from research I came to her in a more calm, less judgmental state. She opened up more and told me that she had fallen in love with this man. That everything I didn't do for her he did and it was really hard for me to figure out these things. I figured they may have been things I wasn't doing enough more so than at all. I wanted to take her to Paris for V-Day next year but she said he had taken her in November already. I thought after she was confronted by my mentor she would slow up but she saw him two more occasions in November. Right now she seems to be in a place of walking away and staying. She keeps tell me she needs time and/or space to think about things. My issue I have is she claims she doesn't see her and him going any further after the things she has found out about him (he's still dating all these other German woman, he's separated from his wife and he believes having sex with other women isn't cheating if its not emotional). Yet she still wants to cater to him because of the deep feelings she has for him. Im so confused because I love her and I am willing to put all that I have on the line to get her back. I don't want to be a fool and let her think she can continue any communication or see him again from now until I get back in january. Its very hard because I feel like Im at the mercy of her vulnerability. She's not strong enough to make this decision on her own because she doesn't want to lose him. At the same time I think theres that small bit of hope she has that I will turn things around but I don't want to be the justification as to why she can cut things off with this guy. I want her to do it on her on and soon.

I don't know what do especially since I am still away at least for the next 6 weeks. Its like I want to shut myself off and not talk to her but I still have no choice because of our 5 year old son. Its not fair to him. At the same time Ive been going to counseling the past month and she told me I need to refrain from trying to control her actions or decision. I want to stand back and let this play out for itself but I feel as though I run the risk of her not coming to her senses and falling deeper for this man. She said he continues to reach out to her and has even consider trying to get an assignment closer versus the 4 hour distance now to be near her. The sad part is she says he thinks she is separated and has no Idea I will be home soon. The dilemma I have as well is she is setting all these boundaries before I get home. Us sleeping in separate bedrooms, separate laundry, etc. Ive gotten so much guidance but this situation is so dynamic, its really hard to follow anything without direct advice to this.

What a mess, your poor son.

Are you interested in stopping your own adultery as well?

Are you willing to commit to a lifestyle where there is no separation (is deployment)?

Yes I really am. I chose to start going to individual counseling because I don't know if its something in my subconscious that has aided me in being unfaithful in the past or if I haven't came to grips with my own demons. I grew up around it seeing my father cheat on my mom, my brother having multiple women and spreading his seeds across 3 women, and friends as well. It's enough for me now to not surround myself with people who condone or are doing it. Birds of a feather flock together and if I am to be true to these same friends it would only be right if I tell them to clean up their acts. It took a lot of self reflection asking myself what led me to have those moments and why did I follow through? I made a memo of all of them I could think of and my mother didn't raise me to be a cheater. I know we have breaking points but it takes mental strength to stay strong and do the right thing.

When I met her when we were dating I was still living like I was single. I think she put up with a lot of things just because she never had someone like me in her life and now she's feeling that way again with this new man. I secretly think he's going to show his true crap colors based of his logic with women. She's slowly seeing that from our conversations but she still can't fully wrap her head around of it because of the feelings.

Well actually my career field can deploy often but we also have the option not to. I've only deployed twice in 5 years. The training this time around which put me at 10 months being away from home total after this deployment is over. So of course I am willing to commit to a stable lifestyle. I know I'd like to deploy again in the future but Im expecting a good 2-3 years of rebuilding my marriage with my wife before thats considered.

Hi IAL, welcome to Marriage Builders. Well, there is not much to save here since neither of you have taken your marriage seriously in the least. You both live like single people and it is apparent your career comes before your marriage. You can see the result.

The reason you have affairs is because is you PURSUE them. You don't need to go to a counselor to find that out. You not only pursue them but maintain a lifestyle that affords the opportunity to do so. The solution is to a) stop trolling for women and b) set up a lifestyle environment that does not afford this opportunity.

If you want to save this, I would move home and never spend the night apart again. Go to your wife and DEMAND she end her affair. Expose her affair to the OM's wife and everyone else. And most of all, get off of all social networking and computers. You and your wife should make your lives so transparent that it will be impossible to cheat.

But you have to go home to do this. Living like a single person and putting your career FIRST has destroyed your marriage and will continue to do so in the future.

Here is a list of extraordinary precautions to avoid affairs. You can start by affair proofing yourself. Change your phone #s and email addresses so hoes can't contact you. Send them a letter telling them to never contact you [I will post in the next post] and show it to your wife. If you have lied or withheld any information about your affairs, you need to fess up when you go home.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

The "something" is in your conscious mind, not your subconscious mind. You and I both know you are out actively trolling for skanks. Stop trying to pretend that sin is a syndrome. Going to counseling to talk about your "demons" is a distraction from your critical marriage problems. We know why you have affairs: you are looking for them and you have the opportunity!

here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

You're right, a lot of those things have been distractions like masturbation + pornography, needing validation from other women to feel good about myself/ego boost, alcohol consumption, and most of all not respecting my wife as a person. Luckily here there is 3 drink maximum per 18 hours but now with everything Im going through alcohol has a reverse effect. I can't drink because it doesn't taste the same. I use to drown my pain in alcohol and now I can't enjoy the flavor of beer or liquor. I use to run every other day but with the daily stress of "what if she leaves before I can defend our marriage", I now have to run everyday to get it off of my mind. My counselor told me to try mindfulness. Its a way to take your mind off of the the unknown (is she still seeing this guy, do they talk everyday, was he a better lover, did she have unprotected sex with him), It really helped and I think having that conversation with my wife about everything eased my mind too because of the answers removing some unknowns. I do believe that some things are deep in your subconscious* that effect you without you realizing it. Some of my best guy friends are chronic cheaters. I can't hang around people like that anymore and some of them are great guys.

And things that are in your CONSCIOUS MIND have an even greater effect. It doesn't matter where it comes from, you need to stop it. And your playah lifestyle is a CONSCIOUS DECISION. You are not an animal that is driven by wild instincts. Going to counseling talking about your subconscious is an exercise in mental masturbation that is a distraction from solving your real life problems.

People have urges to do stupid things all the time. It doesn't matter where or why they have those thoughts. Grown ups use their RATIONAL CONSCIOUS MIND to make a decision not to act on stupid ideas. I felt like slapping a clerk in the store yesterday. Do I need to run off to "counseling " for a few years to examine my subconscious, or do I need to just make a decision to not act like a PUNK?

I mean, seriously, GROW UP, my friend. This is all part of growing up and making adult decisions. No counseling required.


Agree. When people grow up they put their marriage before their friendships and start fostering friendships with married couples.

Listen, my father was a serial cheater too who taught me to do "whatever makes you happy." Therefore, when I was in my 20's I mindlessly indulged in about every stupid instinct that came along in the pursuit of happiness. It never made me happy, it made me miserable and wrecked my life. That is what is happening to you NOW. You are living by your instincts, rather than your intelligence.

After being knocked around pretty good for most of my 20's, I grew up and learned this simple truth: happiness is the result of being GOOD.

Chasing every instinct will result in a life of hell. If you don't learn that lesson your life will be a nightmare. You need to decide to grow up at some point.

There's an old proverb that The man who conquers his own passions has conquered more than the ruler who conquers the world.

Im not getting the answers I need so maybe I should ask different questions. I am currently still away. I have been working with my supervisor here (he knows the situation) to actually get home about 2-3 weeks early which might get me home by or before the new year. My question are, what do I do since she's not willing to cut contact with the OM right now? I feel like my hands are tied with the distance because everything I read and I dl SAA, I can't apply that contract right now. She's still in the fog and my physical presence may be the biggest stop to this. I reached out to her mom last night on FB and she said my wife had already told her but not the level of being in love with this man. Her father doesn't know anything and her mom said he hasn't heard from her in a while so he knows something is up. I asked her mom could she please inform her father because he might be my last hope on the exposure end. Otherwise if I have to be here to mid january the risk is too high to fully lose her. Id love to let this A die a slow death but I don't trust her judgement. She's way too vulnerable and I see her falling hard before I can intercept any feelings left. I just need to know how do I play this from a distance before I can take full blown action to stop her from talking to this guy? I asked her and she said he still reaches out. She hasn't seen him since Mid november for their trip to Paris. I have a feeling she saw him yesterday. She claims she went to the Xmas market with her girlfriend but she would not answer her phone, only respond with messages claiming her phone would die soon (called her later in the evening and the phone was still on�.). I called her this morning but no response or reply by message. I just don't know what to do. I feel like everything is working against me right now with time and distance. I want to save this but I don't think I will have time. Everyday pushes her further to him and I am doing everything I can to maintain a positive attitude without blowing up on her or giving her a D ultimatum. I know right now from reading that she is in addiction mode. Theres little to nothing that will stop her from gaining those feelings from him

Yes, you are getting the answers you need and I fully expect an answer to all my posts. I took my own valuable time to post to you and I hope it was not in vain.

What you do now is nothing. You can't do anything if you are not there.

@Melodylane

I appreciate a lot of your insight but when you provide advice, please stop trying to find a way to bash the person. All I am looking for is a solution the problem at hand. When you start going off on the deep end assuming what Ive been doing without me ever explain each dynamic of why things went south, you are defeating the purpose of what I am asking. I am still deployed, so I cannot just implement that contract. What email it to her and ask to her to sign off on these while she is still in addiction mode with the OM? These are the things I need answered. Im not physically there doing Plan A, I am at a distance trying to figure out the best way I fight for my marriage until I get home next month. There are plenty of people in the military that are married. I just can't turn off my commitment to my service until my contract is done. A lot of spouses don't understand what they are signing up for when they marry a military man and thats why the divorce rates have been so high varying by career fields. As I said, luckily Im not at a base where I HAVE to deploy annually. As I said too, I haven't deployed since 2009 but this year alone would put me at 10 months of being away from my family including training + deployment.

So Im not going to defend myself on what information I have already provided. I got off of the social network I was on that she discovered my profile the end of October. It's not off of instinct, its really self control. My father was also a serial cheater but to this day I have not asked him why he did the things he did. Im assuming somewhere between not trying, not caring, drug addiction and we worked 60+ hours a week. That why I say subconsciously I think that may have effected. Ive attended counseling because I wanted to see what pieces I have missed throughout my adult life that I felt it was ok be in a relationship but still want to be with other women. Cant have both. Then you tell me to grow up� I am in the process of doing that if you haven't noticed or maybe I didn't explain that enough. Im not some 35 year old man going through a mid life crisis. Im 27 and I have been married for 3.5 years. I had a child with a woman I feel in love with at 22 and I married her based of an ultimatum/if I didn't marry her she would take our son and move. All I am asking for is how do I handle this from a distance? She found out that I told her mom my side of everything because I figured she would blame everything on me to justify her actions. Which her mom responded with what I thought. Of course my wife was furious and she told me there is way we can work it out because I went to her who will probably tell her dad since she hasn't talked to him in awhile. So now I am fighting uphill with a person who went from conflict to complete withdrawal. Im still at a distance with disadvantage with distance and time. Thats all I am asking because there are so many thing I have read and researched that I can't implement due to distance. Enough with the bashing though, you're not helping my situation with the negative.

ML isn't being negative. She cutting through the bs of subconscious stuff you spitting. I am in the military also and I see affairs everyday and it makes me sick. I'm not sure what branch you are in but military values are upheld 24/7 in all aspects of your life. So let me make this simple. YOU make a choice to have an affair because you had the opportunity. It's that simple. I saved you hours upon hours of useless counseling.

It's good to see you are trying to get home early. As stated earlier you can't do anything when your deployed. You can read Dr. Harley's book Surviving the affair. You can also eliminate all SOCIAL MEDIA. You can stop make excuses for poor behavior. You can also expose your affair to all your friends and family. For accountability. You can also own your mistake.

OMG! Yes I get it! The most recent thing happened to us was a year ago and that was on my part. Read the subject, this is her doing this time and she is seriously involved with another man. Why do you all skip the fact that I am fighting to be with this woman but I need some form of solution on this to handle from a distance? Cutting through the BS, I have already did that 2 months ago when I made all the changes I listed and am still staying consistent. I bought SAA a few days ago but I have also read other books on long term relationships and marriage. The buck doesn't stop because I read a couple of books. Counseling has also help me maintain my sanity through all of this as well. You guys keep trying to convince me otherwise. Focus on what Im asking. If theres nothing I can do but sit and wait then Ill do that. But if there is alternative to this besides what I have already done, then please speak up. @Tranquildark I see it all the time too! Its almost like apart of the military culture but you are right, it should be 24/7 365 in all aspects. The problem is people don't affair proof their marriage and I to have been a victim of it. I have learned now but I want to fix it with the woman I married, not fix it for the next woman I may marry. People give up too easily and thats why todays age portrays that its perfectly fine because you can start all over. Why not just fight to make it right and live happily ever after? Everything some of you are saying are already done. Give me another pointer. SAA is continuing to be a good read but like I said, Im not in a typical situation. Im at a distance and theres another man involved that just may seal the deal with her before I even get a chance to defend myself. And I ask you @Tranquildark, if you were in my position and your wife had continued involvement with a new man she fell in love with, how would you go about this until you got home from you deployment? Would you sit on your hands til you got home? Would do everything in your power to be positive and not pressure her to stop the affair? These are the things I need answered

Update: As well she already flipped out when I told her mom my side of the story and says now there is no possibility. I know from the book this is typical behavior of the addict and now the fog may be lifted a bit. As I said Id love to see it die a slow death but with this guy going all out for her for 2 months, I don't see her making the decision to stop contact with him that easily.

Why don't you email Dr Harley?


Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

If it were me I would be doing a detail plan of attack. Keep in mind the affair is your enemy. If your reading SAA then you know about Plan A. Email Dr. Harley and get home! Also see if you can get into a different MOS that doesn't deploy as much. I'm pretty sure your wife feels the job is more important than her. Or get out of the military altogether. There is nothing you can do from afar but exposure and self improvement. Do you know the OM? Is he military? Does your command know about your problems at home?

IAL, a proper exposure may kill her affair. That is critical, no matter what.

That doesn't save your marriage though. You said you plan to deploy again in a few years - in other words, you will choose to continue lifestyle choices that led to affairs on both parts. While I would love to help you, we need you to put away the psychobabble and start looking at concrete actions to help your marriage.

Your marriage CANNOT survive deployment. If your career is more important than your family, file for divorce.

ok, you clearly don't get it. Until you take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth this situation is not going forward. If you ask for advice, you need to TAKE it. Don't ask people for advice if you are not going to take it. You are not in a position to be selective, since you don't have the skills or capability to solve this on your own. You only know how to wreck marriages. We are trying to help you save your marriage. But that can't happen if you don't LISTEN.