Dear friends-

My husband and I have been married almost 10 years and have a 9 year old daughter. We live with my in-laws, who took us in after my husband lost his job around 6 years ago. They took care of us in our time of need but now we take care of them - both his mom and dad have become fragile both mentally and physically, especially in the last year. When he lost his job I found some part time work and went back to school. I'm now a nurse and I manage the in-laws's medications, go to doctors appointments with them, and function as the family nurse in general.

Our daughter was born with a midwife who impressed us both very positively. I chose nursing when I went back to school so I could become a midwife. I didn't necessarily plan to be the breadwinner indefinitely after my husband lost his job, but I ended up working full time even during much of my schooling and my husband hasn't found lasting work.

Our marriage has never been perfect but it has become increasingly bad. Years ago I realized that, despite having always wanted lots of children, he made me feel like such a bad wife and mother I wouldn't want to raise another child with him. I tried my best to please him and always figured that things would be much better once I made more money/had more free time/ lost weight/ kept the house cleaner/ took him out climbing more/ got a job somewhere he liked better/ moved us out of his parents house, etc.

By last spring things were bad enough that our daughter was late for her own birthday party because he had trapped me in the bathroom to express his discontent with me and his life, (which involved yelling and punching walls) and then she missed all the eggs at the town easter egg hunt for essentially the same reason. I was tired of being yelled at, tired of feeling like I must really be a horrible person, and horrified that our daughter was seeing our marriage as her example of the way she should be treated someday. I googled "how to leave your husband" and started to follow some of the advice i found. I wasnt sure i could or really wanted to leave but i wanted to be ready if things stayed as awful as they were. I hoped maybe leaving would even make my husband want to try to win me back.

The credit union where I opened an account sent a confirmation to our address even though I had specified a friend's. I received an angry text at work demanding to know why I would open an account without him at work one day - "this is the sort of thing a spouse will do before they leave!" So I confessed that i was thinking about leaving. I nearly left that night but he begged me to stay, promised to see a marriage counselor, and swore things would be better.

Things improved only for a couple of weeks. He refused to see a counselor or to allow me to see one on my own, and demanded that I fix our marriage, apologize, earn back his trust, and make him happy. This is my responsibility since I'm the selfish deceitful one who tried to destroy all our lives, broke his heart, and went behind his back to try to leave him. Among his complaints are that I purposely make him angry, ruined his birthday (I put together what I thought were thoughtful gifts of a family vacation he'd been asking for and a night at a bed and breakfast for the two of us to reconnect, both of which he rejected), I'm selfish, childish, and ignore him (else I would right the wrongs he complains about). He says he has every right to feel and act the way he does, because of the way he is made to feel by me and his parents. Recently he has begun saying that I am trying to make him kill himself.

I have asked him to get some counseling or antidepressant medication. He said that since one of the possible side effects of antidepressants is thoughts of suicide this proves that I want him to kill himself. This morning he told me if he had a gun he would shoot himself at the dinner table next to me as his last act. I realize he is hurt, frustrated with his life, and that watching his parents' health disintegrate before his eyes is horrible for him. I feel compassion for the sad, angry person that I am married to but I don't naturally feel the desire to try to love and comfort him anymore. I feel bad but I just can't make myself want to go comfort him even when he cries. When I do it feels forced.

I'm so tired of being yelled and criticized. Often the "fight" or lecture or whatever it is will last literally hours. If I try to take a shower or go for a run or a drive or get away he won't let me. He will say I'm making the problem worse by hiding from the issues instead of resolving them. He demands that I make eye contact and respond appropriately to prove that I'm not ignoring him and he's not talking to a wall. He says he has to yell at me to get anything through my f*ing head, or sometimes he is just "venting."

There are a lot of things about him that I don't like or respect. He often describes people with stereotypes in a way that I find offensive - "f*ing Mexicans," "f*ing Christians and their mythology," republicans, rednecks, or whatever. They are what's wrong with the world or they're a waste of air, etc. He doesn't want to try to make friends in our rural primarily Christian area because he doesn't respect the people here. He also tells me that the friends I have made in the community, mostly at work, are not my real friends. He gets angry not just at me but at his parents, at friends, at people driving on the road. He's very paranoid - just about any car that drives near us for more than a few blocks is an unmarked cop car, any big news story is a reflection of a government or big business conspiracy, his previous employer has blacklisted him so that nobody else will hire him, and the employees in the grocery store follow him around to watch that he's not shoplifting.

I was just accepted into a nurse midwifery program. He seemed supportive when i put in my application and even when i got my acceptance a few days ago. Now he's saying maybe I shouldn't go because of the time and financial requirements of going back to school. I understand his concerns but am afraid to try to discuss the subject. He gets angry when I mention it or try to suggest discussing ways it could work for us. My stomach churns just thinking about bringing up the topic, but I definitely don't want to sacrifice this opportunity I've worked so hard for.

Rock climbing is a major issue. He says he needs to do it at LEAST three or four days a week for four or five hours each to be able to work out his frustrations and be happy. Not taking him enough proves that I don't care about his needs. When we do go he often gets upset if I don't want to climb or am not as enthusiastic about it as he is. I do like to be outside and climbing can be fun sometimes. But the more he pushes for it the more I just can't stand the thought.

To balance out my portrayal of my husband - he can be very sweet and charming. He cooks and cleans and makes special meals for me since I'm vegetarian. He's gentle with animals. A year and a half ago he let our daughter chop off his long hair to donate - my sexiest memory of him that i can think of. He can cry when he's hurt. If he finds people to be around who he doesn't determine to be the problem with the world or undercover cops he's very gregarious. For special occasions he gives very thoughtful gifts.

I'm tired. Status quo is not working. My efforts to improve things never seem to work either. I hardly have the energy to try anymore. I'm thinking again about leaving but I worry about the in-laws and am afraid of repeating the same sordid experience. I worry that he will destroy all my things and try to take our daughter away from me. I don't really think he could but he is the primary caregiver and he's threatened to before. I'm afraid of leaving and him actually killing himself - he obviously thinks about it a lot. I also don't want to be stuck where we live forever - he and I would both rather live in the mountains in the state where we first met. Moving one household would be hard enough. And I don't really know if I would even want to be won back this time.

Sorry for the long post.

Thanks,
Willowsong

Welcome to MB, Willowsong.

Your post is so disturbing, and the picture you paint of your life so frightening, that I advise you to leave this man right away. He sounds mentally ill and violent.

Because I think you are at immediate risk, and because of your H's risk of suicide, I urge you to write to the founder of Marriage Builders, Dr Harley. Send EXACTLY what you wrote above in an email to him, right now. Simply copy and paste and hit send. I will be back with the email address.

To reach Dr Harley:

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

I think he might well respond without waiting to book a slot for your email on the radio show.

You should seriously consider calling 911 and telling this to the police. with what he said this morning, He may need urgent medical intervention

You should have him removed if he has one more angry outburst. Call people if he threatens his life. This is abuse.

Please take SugarCane's advice and email Dr. Harley.

Here are some fantastic articles written by Dr. Harley. Please read them all.

Abusive Marriage #1

I would leave this poor excuse of a man ASAP. Sorry but I don't see anything here worth saving. Your husband's behavior is very disturbing and abnormal. He is dangerous. If you have not yet done so, I would get a consult with an attorney and find out how you can protect yourself and DD from your husband.

If your husband wants to seek help for himself, fine, but I don't think you should be there while it happens.

Here's some more reading.
What to do with an Angry Husband

Willowsong,
I am scared for you. Please write to Dr Harley. Call a woman's shelter, but bring yourself and your daughter to safety today. The police and social services can be called to help your husbands parents. This will be the best help for your husband too. There is help out there for you. You are not alone.

I can see you online right now. Please post to us. We're worried about you.

I'm fine. Sorry everyone I certainly didnt mean to be so alarming. To clarify, he has never hit me or hurt me physically at all. And he isnt the things I've described all the time, either. I feel like maybe I should have been more careful about what I wrote. There are plenty of good times. We (the whole family) are out on Christmas errands right now.

My phone battery is really low and I can't sit and write a long post right now but will be back soon. Thank you for your reaponses. I will email Dr Harley as well when I get a bit of time.

Willow,

It seems you wrote us an honest and thorough description. It can seem easier to deal with the devil you know then the seeming devil you don't know. You are stuck in a role you can't sustain much longer. Positive actions are required. I'm glad you will email the Harley's.

I have emailed the Harleys as suggested and am reading the links suggested by Brainhurts. I appreciate everyone's concern. I'm not prepared to take drastic measures instantly, especially with Christmas a week away. There's no shelter here but I do have friends I can go to if things become desperate. I don't think he would physically harm me or even verbally attack our daughter, but I never thought I would see him do or say a lot of the things he has, either.

Graceful, your reply was particularly meaningful to me. I'm so exhausted. I need some time to figure things out and make a plan.

I realize I painted a dismal picture of my husband, but please don't write him off as a monster. He's a human being and there are lots of beautiful things about him, albeit some pretty ugly things, too . I don't want to throw him to the wolves.

I'm glad to hear you are scouting around your community for safe places to go physically and perhaps mentally and spiritually nurturing. I understand work can seem like a break. It seems like your own spiritual center is waking up and needs a break. Funny how that seems to happen around this time of year and we have to seek something New. A rebirth you know. It's painful but mostly good for you.

No one is suggesting you throw H to the wolves. However, you also can't help someone who doesn't want to help himself either. All your H will continue to do is suck the life out of you and you are already exhausted.

No amount of him being good with animals or cooking you dinner is going to makes this..."This morning he told me if he had a gun he would shoot himself at the dinner table next to me as his last act"...any less and

My exWH said and did a lot of screwed up things during our marriage...including being suicidal and telling me he knew I was out to murder him...I've had been trying to murder him for almost twenty yrs apparently so I get what your H is putting you through. Your H needs serious help and you are not the person who can give it to him. Please think of your daughter. You are the one sane parent she has and you can not afford to take risks with your own health and mental/emotional well being.

One of the most important lessons I have learned from my many years of dealing with autism is that those who are close to an abnormal situation have a difficult time seeing things as they are. Bizarre behavior distorts the perceptions of normality for the people closest to it. You need to trust third party perspectives. You are not living in a safe situation. People like your husband are dangerous to themselves and those around them. Your safety is the most important concern right now.

It doesn't seem like you are throwing your husband to the wolves. It seems you are stepping back and making an honest assessment.

We all have strengths and a shadow side to those strengths. We can use our talents for good or we can use them to manipulate and hurt others.
MB has taught me how to be honest with myself and my husband. I've learned to identify selfish demands , disrespectful judgements and angry outbursts and eliminate them in our marriage. Whether I'm the one using any of these love busters or my husband either way they kill the relationship.

Around here we call it gaslighting when a spouse is projecting their fuzzy logic and special reasons why what you are seeing, feeling or thinking is all wrong. This can be a form of stealth abuse. It lowers your own confidence in yourself and how you deserve to be treated. It's very soul robbing. It's a good thing there is an inner voice inside yourself that probably starts as a whisper and is likely now screaming.

I'm glad you wrote Dr Harley. Listen to his radio program every day. It will be like going from wearing smudgey glasses to Crystal clear vision. The gaslighting smudges your vision.

Please read this.
Please Explain Gaslighting

You havent painted a picture of a monster. I personally don't believe in them anyway.

You've painted a picture of a man who is scary and out of control some of the time and sweet and humane and wonderful at others.

How long / how many times does someone have to be out of control for it to have life changing and permanent results?

It's like being a drunk driver. You only have to do it once, half an hour to ruin something, including your own life, forever. People who get very angry are as trustworthy as drunks. They often don't even remember what was said.

You'd be doing this for him as much as yourself. A good spouse isn't inactive and permissive when their other half is indulging in seriously damaging behaviours.

I read through the gaslighting thread and the angry husband threads - I will read them again and listen to the clips posted. I've also been reading and rereading your comments here, everyone. I'll check out the radio show too but I doubt I will be listening every day - just work days or days when i'm alone on errands. I don't really want my husband's opinion on the material right now.

I know I am inside the situation and it's hard to see out. Maybe the trademark of gaslighting is how confused a gaslighted spouse feels. I can kind of see it, but mostly I just feel confused. One thing I can see though is that my friends are my friends. Telling me they aren't is totally out of line. I know they're my friends.

I guess I'm not sure what response I expected but the unanimous "get yourself and daughter away asap" wasn't it. Do I/we leave and leave him and his parents or do I give him the boot?

His dad is supposed to have a pacemaker placed before the new year and his mom is supposed to meet with a specialist too. Because we live so far in the boonies, its a 2-hour drive to these kind of appointments. I have a video interview with a job out of state that we are all excited about the possibility of on Monday. Do I just blow these things off?

He doesn't have friends or resources in this area or any income. Also I'm afraid of him hurting himself if I send him off. I would need an okay from his parents before kicking their own son out of their house. I could potentially have a close friend of his come and "visit" and take him home with them. There are two friends I'm thinking of, they both live out of state which has it's advantages and disadvantages. They could probably help him find a job and anger management and other counseling and he would have some supervision. We could maybe eventually follow him out there if things go well. But that would also be taking him away from dd and her from him. Also what if his mom takes ill with pneumonia and is hospitalized or dies? She tried that a couple of times last winter.

It would be tricky to take my daughter and leave. He's the stay at home parent so it's not like we can slip away while he's at work. I continue to worry about the in-laws. I think he would take care of them but then we (in-laws, me and dd) would be locked away from each other. Mother-in-law and daughter are extremely close - mil waits all day for dd to come home from school to play dolls and games.

My head is swimming. I foresee a nasty custody battle when this happens. I'm afraid he'll be favored since he's the primary caregiver. I don't think he will play fair or nice. What do I do? What should I be prepared for and how do I prepare?

My first attempt at this didn't go so well. I'm so nervewracked.

Blackraven, what ended up happening with you and your husband?