So this is what you mean by EPs being in place:

So, the EPs that you've agreed upon to protect the marriage amount to:

He has no need to go near her job;

She has promised not to go near that section of town (where he lives);

Your friends are pressuring him to leave the organisation;

You won't go to social events where you know he'll be.

Good grief - I don't remember reading any of those in the Surviving an Affair, or anything that suggested that they are in any way adequate.

I thought something was odd when this poster was writing exclusively about UA time when people in recovery are facing challenges like changes jobs, moving, etc while having UA time.

I don't believe I will be different, I know you feel I am cutting corners and doing half measures and since I respect your opinion I am not going argue the point with you. I am doing my best to follow the steps here and will continue to work hard.

For me its been a few days in passing, no conversation or anything like that we just happened to be occupying the same space at the same time.


Back in Feb. while we were out at some place having dinner him and his girlfriend walked into the place we were at, they turned around and left.

That's just empty double-speak - are you a politician? You haven't address the points at all.

How do you know that was her last time?

The "same space" being a meeting of your organisation?

You are correct, this was the resumption of a previous affair. No she doesn't post here. Yes he was exposed at the organization and it didn't go well for save for a few of his drinking buddies.

My friend, I don't "feel" any such thing. I KNOW you are cutting corners. You have skipped right over STEP ONE, so that is not doing your best to follow the steps.

Unless that step is followed, there is no hope here. You already know it doesn't work because you have been at this for YEARS. Your marriage has been hit by a car playing chicken and you are still running out in the road. The solution is to get out of the road, not to pretend like you have become a better chicken player.

Nonsense. I am willing to post further on this thread when you get serious about following Dr. Harleys methods.
Until that time, good luck with your own plan. Hopefully you'll have better success than last time.

This is only what you know about. Every time your wife sees him, his car, his home, her feelings for him are triggered. Every time her feelings are triggered the risk of the affair resuming skyrockets. It is only a matter of time before this happens, if it even ended at all. This is the reason why her affair continued on from 2011.

You have a gun to your head and are playing Russian roulette with your marriage and your life. You just keep pulling the trigger.

When your wife resumes her affair - if it ever ended - you will be the LAST PERSON who is informed. This is like sending the "recovering" alcoholic into the bar every day, pretending she is sober while taking her "word" that she doesn't take a drink. It is only a matter of time before she takes the drink.

ThePhoenix, it is frustrating when we are more serious about your marriage than you are. I guarantee that you will never recover this way. Your wife will stay in a state of perpetual withdrawal and you are facing an on again, off again affair. If not with this dirtbag, another one. The REASON? As long as her boyfriend is hanging around the fringes, she will remain in the fog.

I also don't believe you are being completely forthright with us about your relationship with your wife. Since she is FOGGED OUT, I seriously doubt she is engaging in recovery.

There are lot of posts here, trying to keep up and sorry if I miss answering something, but since this one seems like the most significant I�ll try to answer these.

I have been honest about it being a resumption of a previous affair, it just seems to have slipped though the volume of posts. I can have lots of confidence it ended in 2011 because shortly after after I discovered the affair I was contemplating divorce and almost went through with it, but she was hospitalized for a major illness at that time and while nursing her back to health I rediscovered I loved this woman. We moved forward very well for a period of time and there was no contact, I had no reason for suspicion although I did investigate regularly and found no evidence. My biggest failure was no exposure, followed by not moving at that time when we would have been in a position to do so.

I was controlling and demanding in regards to using the affair as an excuse to get her to do things and go places by throwing it up in her face as an "you owe me� kind of thing for allowing you to still be my wife. I turned into a very bitter and nasty person over the last 2 years, to the point where recently my daughter commented to me she thought we were going to get divorced and is very glad to see us at the place we are at now. I can pinpoint when this affair resumed last year and had been battling it for months before coming here and learning of Dr. Harley�s approach.

I am following the advice and doing many of the steps, my wife works in the town in which we live and it isn�t in close proximity to his home, he does live in the same down but on the other side and there is no need for him to come near our house or her work or her to head over there. There is no accounted for time and there has complete transparency that I have been able to validate through snooping.

I am trying not to devastate myself financially, I know many here feel that is a penalty that must be paid for such an affair.

This past Dec/Jan when everything was exposed she was ready to leave me and almost did, but she stayed because of me following plan A. So I know you will say that I choose to hold there because I got what I wanted and I am cherry picking the advice. Trust me we are working through the steps, just not at the preferred speed.

Your last paragraph indicates that in your opinion based on dealing with others who do what I am doing that it will leave me devastated as she leaves me in the future. I can tell you this she has come out of the fog and sees him a very different person, a very unlikeable one than the one she was having the affair with. I am sure you will tell me she is telling me what I want to hear.

True I can leave the organization right now, but that doesn�t change the fact of us all living in the same town, however there is no need for her to be there and she isn't. The move would only get us out of town she will also need to change jobs and that is in progress. However, since our daughter will be working with her over the summer no change will happen until Sept. which is the right time to change jobs her her line of work, because that is when companies are hiring.

I need to head off and will try to catch up on the rest of the posts later.

We most certainly do not believe any such thing. We believe that moving will prevent you from suffering the 'penalty" of a repeat affair and a divorce. You will quickly bounce back from any financial effect from moving. You will NEVER bounce back from affair #3. No amount of money can compensate for an affair. It is not MONEY that affects quality of life in the greatest way, but the quality of your marriage.

Many, many of us have moved at great financial loss and we did not suffer a "penalty." We live in PEACE and have wonderful marriages. We live lifestyles where we don't have to endure a fogged out wayward or face constant reminders of the OP. "Penalty?" NO WAY. That is like saying that quitting smoking is a "penalty" and ignoring the enormous benefits.


This has absolutely nothing to do with a "preferred speed" and it concerns me when I see you pettifogging the issue. The issue is that you have not taken STEP ONE. Step one is to end all contact for life with the OM. You have not even started on that step.

You still see him because you place some organization above your marriage and your wife still sees him around because you live in a small town. She cant possibly end contact when she may drive past him next week. Every time she sees him her feelings will be triggered.


I am sure that your fog is very deep to have written this. It just tells us that you have no earthly idea of the threat you face. Your wife is very addicted to the OM and there is NO WAY she is out of the fog since she still sees him around.


More excuses to not take STEP ONE. Everything else comes before your marriage, which will prevent you from recovery. You can't move because your daughter all be working with her over the summer?

Are you serious?

No, you are not serious. This post just demonstrates what I posted above: we are more serious about this than you are.

Please do not claim to have extraordinary precautions in place when the very basic ones are left undone.

Consider this:

All of your compromises that you are making believing that they are in the best global interest of your marriage - preserving finances or whatever, will someday all count against you. This is because any concern, no matter how valid you think it is, reflects lack of care when placed before the marriage. So, you had better steel yourself for the future revelation that your WW believes it is all your fault, because you never really cared about her. You are proving your lack of care by continuing the enabling of her affair, and by failing to take decisive and bold steps that prove she really matters to you.

You will never recover when you are constantly looking over your shoulder and focusing on ways to avoid spotting the OM.


It only serves to keep the affair and the OM in BOTH of your minds.

That is not how a marriage recovers.

Wrong!!

This is an issue I spoke to Dr Harley about personally and he told me SPECIFICALLY that the "conditions" have more to do cheater having an affair vs lack of needs being met or BS commiting lovebusters etc.

Do NOT twist Dr Harley's "approach" to tailor your OWN recovery plan.

I have heard him suggest a move for FAR LESS problems in a recovery than you have in yours.

Regardless of what your WW may tell you she IS in love with the OM and she IS addicted to him. That is why she has not been able to stay away from him in the past and you have been dealing with an on again/off again affair since 2011. Not because you were being "demanding".

Phoenix,

"True I can leave the organization right now, but that doesn�t change the fact of us all living in the same town, however there is no need for her to be there and she isn't"

Then, why don't you resign. Is this membership more important your marriage because of your self-aggrandizement from being a member?

Based on your comments, you seem to prefer to attempt to maintain an idyllic middle-class life rather than address the serious threat to your marriage and family. The price to you is that you've lost your W to her OM for the last 4 years. Your way has worked find so far, Right? Why not subscribe to MB advice and see what a difference it may make. I don't believe your W has recommitted to your marriage at all - I think she's simply skilled at snowing you to keep you out of her affair.

Tom