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#2843001 02/13/15 12:45 PM
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bdb84 Offline OP
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A good friend of mine linked me to this forum as she said it really helped her when she was going through similar issues, in her marriage, years ago.

I am 30 years old my husband is 29. We have been together for a decade/married for 9 of those years. Together we have two young children (8 & 5) and another one due just next month.

Here is some back story before I jump right in.

Back in 2007, when our marriage was just a year old, I had an affair that lasted several months. I ended up leaving my husband because, although I had ended the affair, I felt disgusted with myself and like my husband deserved better. I also questioned if I could truly love him if I was so willing to betray him in the way I did. He did not want me to leave; he was willing to work it out, but I felt we needed this time apart. It was a very emotional parting. He begged me to stay, and through tears I told him we needed to do this.

As we were apart, we both saw other people. Our separation lasted an entire year before I came back home. It took me months to realize that my husband was who I belonged with, and with open arms, he welcomed me home. That was in early 2009. I made a vow to him to never betray him, and he told me that he would never use my past against me. It's a vow that I have yet to break.

We had our second child over a year later and everything, up to that point, was going well.

Until I discovered, when our baby was just a few months old, that he had been back in contact with his ex (a woman he saw while we were apart; one whom he ended things with to reconcile with me). He had told her that he missed her and wanted to hang out with her one last time. I found out immediately (she ratted him out) and that ended instantly. I was very hurt. Here I was, just a few months post pardum, feeling at my worst, and I just found out that my husband was "missing" his ex. He apologized profusely and I accepted-- after all, my current mindset was that I had done so much worse to him a couple years back.

Fast forward two years (and no further incidences), and I discover that he had been mass texting another woman (a friend of a friend). It went on for a month and several hundred messages later. He tried to convince me that it was strictly platonic, but I'm no fool. I confronted them both, and they both swear it was strictly an EA. I have been unable to prove otherwise. Promises were made to cut contact, and those promises were followed through. Again, I accepted it as my "due karma" frown

Fast forward one more year and we had an incident while we were out dancing with several couple friends. Husband went outside the dance club for a smoke break and I noticed it was taking him a long time to come back in. When I went out, I found him sitting on a bench, in a drunken haze, with some woman standing between his legs, his arms around her waist, her arms around his shoulders, and their heads bent in closely to each other, while talking. I immediately confronted them both, raising hell. They were both highly intoxicated so they pretty much laughed it off. A huge fight escalated between my husband and me afterward which included me looking like a raving lunatic, in public, and him watching me with disdain in his eyes.

The following morning, he apologized profusely. He attributed it to alcohol (an addiction that he was able to kick after this incident) and wanted to do anything to make it up to me. It took some time, but I forgave him. I don't know why I was not catching on to a pattern here.

Fast forward a year and everything was great again (it always was in between each occurrence). We decided to try for our third and last child early last year. It took a few months, but we found out we were expecting in July of '14.

He began working intense hours due to his plant locking out several hundred union workers. For four months straight, he worked seven 12's, all night shift. His exhaustion took over and all he could do was sleep and work. He could barely stay awake for an hour in between sleep and work to spend time with us. His personality changed abruptly and I noticed he lost that light in his eyes that I always adored.

In November he went out for a guys' night while I was out of town visiting a cousin. We chatted while he was out with his buddies and I never had a clue that something would be forming while I was gone. His best friend's sister had come into town for the weekend and she ended up going out with the guys (his best friend's wife, whom is also one of my dearest friends, went along, too). Husband ended up dancing a few country songs with the sister, but that was the end of it....so I was told initially.

A couple of weeks later, I get on my husband's desktop as my laptop was running slow. His facebook page was open and I noticed he had a new private message, so I checked it. No compelling reason to do so, other than something told me to. It was from his best friend's sister. We'll call her OW now. I read through the messages and it was all very platonic; talking about work, etc. They do not work together. In fact, she lives 6 hours away.. but they both work the night shift, and I guess that was a bonding factor for them.

However, I noticed that some of the early messages had been deleted, since the first first message was obviously not the start of them. It sent a huge red flag that WH (what I will now call him) had been deleting them.. obviously not a good sign. I called him immediately and asked him if he had anything he wanted to fess up to. He instantly said, "I'm guessing you mean the messages between OW and me?" I said yes. He apologized and said they were just friends and had been chatting amicably about work and what not. I asked why he was deleting them, then, if it was so platonic? His response was that he knew it would upset me, but that he would halt contact.

The next morning, when he came home, he was very loving and apologetic. He told me that he had informed her that they needed to stop communicating as it was upsetting me and he did not want to cause any problems in our marriage. According to him, she was very compliant.

A few weeks go by and we are, seemingly, back to normal. Until December 5th, the night of our daughter's Christmas program at her preschool. My good friend (OW's sister-in-law) confronted me with some disturbing news she had just found out the day before. She said that WH and OW were still in contact; this time via Snapchat. I knew that WH had a snapchat, but we were on each other's friends list, and I felt that, if they had been communicating, I would have known (I began checking his account every so often). Turns out, WH made a secondary account that only OW knew about. frown

I immediately confronted him. Maybe it wasn't the opportune time, but there was no way I could sit for the next hour, through our daughter's performance, and pretend nothing happened. He was angry that I was calling him out then and there, especially because his mother was sitting next to him. I told her what was going on (she knew of their initial contact via Facebook because I had told her- we are very close). She was livid with him.

Following the program, he told his boss that he could not go to work that night due to personal issues. We came home and hashed it out. He admitted that he never stopped talking to her. That they now communicated on his work phone (isn't allowed to leave the plant he works at) and through his other snapchat account. This time he didn't try to deny that their correspondence had been inappropriate. He was very apologetic and told me that he would truly cut off contact this time.

Fast forward through Christmas and the New Year. He claimed they had zero contact, and I could never prove anything through snapchat (he disabled the second account) and our cell phone accounts, but I always knew he had a huge opportunity every night when he went to work. We were fighting constantly because I felt he was not putting forth any effort to make things right between us. It was as if he felt my grief should be put on a time line and he did not understand why I was "still" upset over everything.

Then comes January 4th- a day that changed everything for us.

We got into a huge fight the night before while he was at work. When he came home, I asked if we could talk. We had a long talk while lying in bed together. He just kept saying that he was tired of hurting me. That, for some reason, he kept falling into an EA with different women, and that I deserved better. He did not feel he could truly promise me he would never do it again because, in his own words, "his actions proved otherwise". It ended with him saying, "I love you, but I no longer am in love with you". I told him that, if he truly felt that way, that he could leave.

Big mistake because he did.

He has been staying at his mother's ever since. He did "come back" for two days, about three weeks into this. The first day it almost felt "normal". I could see that old light in his eyes. He was loving and affectionate and gave me all the attention that I had been begging for the past couple of years. Then he went to work that night and, the next day, everything had changed again (surprise, surprise- because he talked to her that night- although, at this point he was still denying contact).

Our children have been crushed through this. Initially he told them that he was leaving because he no longer loved me in the way that a man should love his wife (and at that time it was what I thought to be the full truth, too). They cry for him almost nightly because, while he may have treated me less than desirable, he was always a great father to them (and still is). Our son is about to start counseling on Monday just so he has a healthy outlet for his burst of emotions he is going through.

Last week was a game changer, though. I noticed a random number on our phone account, and when I googled it, a hotel popped up. I just knew then. And even though I knew at that point, I still had to see for myself. I drove to the hotel and, sure enough, saw his vehicle AND the OW's. I confronted them when they exited. She would not say a single word to me, and the only time I saw any flicker of emotion in her eyes is when I threatened to call HR on her. She is a *marriage and family counselor* of all occupations. I told her she was unworthy of such a career and would be reporting her so that her bosses knew just what kind of marriage counselor she really was- one that liked to wreck families herself (according to my friend- OW's SIL- this isn't the first married man she's tried to get involved with). I have pictures of them leaving the room together and of her getting into her vehicle.

Keep in mind that, at this point, I was already 8 months pregnant. As much violence was waging in my mind, the safety of my unborn daughter was worth far more than revenge.

WH was so cruel to me in her presence. He called me a psycho, said I was crazy, and that this was the reason he left me. He said that I had no business being this upset because I had cheated on him 8 years ago. That I'm a hypocrite, etc. His words hurt me more than seeing him leave that room with her.

That evening he came over to see the kids (I should have denied him, I know) and he apologized for his words. He said he did not mean them, but that he was immediately on the defensive when he realized he was caught. He also said that the only reason he did not tell me OW was still in his life was because he was worried it would send me into preterm labor. That he was going to wait until after I had the baby to tell me.

As for who all knows? EVERYONE.

His parents, her parents, his boss and co-workers, friends, my family, etc.

His parents are so enraged with him. Her parents were very upset to hear the news, but they also quickly shoved it from their minds. She's a single 26 year old who, although has her Masters degree, is still being supported by her parents. His boss is angry with him, but would never fire him as WH is such an asset to his company. He has lost friends over this, too. As for her friends? Well, she immediately deactivated her Facebook when she left the hotel that day. However, my friend and her husband (so, OW's brother) were the ones who ratted her out to her parents. They are both incredibly angry at what has taken place.

So, here I am today.

It's been a little over a week since this all came to fruition. I have my days where I am so livid/hurt that I wonder why on earth I could ever actually WANT him back. But then I do, and I can't help that. I know we have been through so much more than any couple should, but when our times were good, they were great.

We are on good terms right now. He feels our marriage is unsalavageable because he believes he'd hurt me all over again. I've tried to convince him to get help for his addiction to EA's. He says he loves me deeply and is still attracted to me, but he doesn't feel like it should take this much to make a marriage work; that it should come naturally. He doesn't feel marriage counselors are worth their salt, especially given the woman he's been seeing is one herself. I feel she has been using her education to manipulate him into thinking our marriage cannot be fixed.

He has admitted that, deep down, he has never been able to forgive me for what I did to him so many years ago. This confession blew me away because *never once* (and I mean that genuinely) has he brought up what I did. Never once has he thrown it in my face during an argument- not even while arguing about his own infidelity. Never once has he so much as hinted that he was struggling with forgiveness.

I feel like, if he had just been honest about that years ago, that we could have fixed this before it tore us apart.

And I think this is why I feel like there is still a chance. Did I really destroy him so much that he is now incapable of being faithful? Did I bring this on myself?

He goes back and forth with me. Some days he is adamantly done. Other days it's as if he would like to believe there's hope, but he just worries that we are too far gone.

I'm not really sure what I am asking at this point. Everything has already been exposed- minus her work- and truthfully there's a reason for that. If she were to get fired, she would, no doubt, move back down here to her parents and then she would be a LOCAL threat to us, not a 6 hours away kind of threat.

Yes, they are still talking. I truly believe the only way he'll come back to me is if they fall apart. So that leaves me wondering if this is even worth it. Do I lower myself so much that I just sit here and WAIT for their relationship to fall apart so that THEN he'll come back to me? Am I really worth second fiddle? As much as I love him and WANT him home so badly, how much of myself do I sacrifice in the process?

It's just so hard when your heart wants one thing, but your mind is trying to convince you that you are worth more.


Me/BW- 30
WH- 30
Separated ("ILY but I'm not in love w/ you")- 01/15
D'Day- 02/15
Two kids (8, 5) & due with #3 in March
bdb84 #2843012 02/13/15 01:32 PM
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While your adultery may have deeply wounded your WH, it is and always has been his choice to cheat as well. You did not "make" him cheat on you. As someone who was married to a serial cheater, I would strongly advise you to think long and hard about the EPs that you would have to live with if you continue in this marriage. I personally was not willing to live with such EPs that a serial cheater requires and I also had too much resentment towards my then WH.

If your WH is throwing pity parties for himself, continues contact with his AP, and doesn't get with the program NOW, I would plan to move to Plan B and consult a divorce attorney. You should not be sitting around and wait for his affair to end. With a serial cheater...if it's not this hobag, it will be another. He is a weak man. Women can not "win" back weak, whiney men...nor should they.

I would report OW as well...to her employer and licensing board. She can always visit her parents and she is still in contact with WH. Blast her. She would be beyond dumb to move closer to you if the families are so outraged by the affair.

Welcome to MB. Sorry for all the hurt.

Last edited by black_raven; 02/13/15 01:36 PM.

BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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If you don't expose her to her work place, you will seriously have to be concerned about her becoming your childrens Step-Mommy.

End that possibility with every resource you have available to you immediately.

LTL

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bdb84 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by black_raven
As someone who was married to a serial cheater, I would strongly advise you to think long and hard about the EPs that you would have to live with if you continue in this marriage. I personally was not willing to live with such EPs that a serial cheater requires and I also had too much resentment towards my then WH.


What are EPs? Sorry, I'm trying to familiarize myself with all of the acronyms.

I guess I was just hoping that his addiction to EAs could be cured through specific therapies/support groups. Is that not possible?

Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
If you don't expose her to her work place, you will seriously have to be concerned about her becoming your childrens Step-Mommy.

End that possibility with every resource you have available to you immediately.

LTL


Can someone link me to how to appropriately notify an employer? What proof do I send?


Me/BW- 30
WH- 30
Separated ("ILY but I'm not in love w/ you")- 01/15
D'Day- 02/15
Two kids (8, 5) & due with #3 in March
bdb84 #2843018 02/13/15 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bdb84
A good friend of mine linked me to this forum as she said it really helped her when she was going through similar issues, in her marriage, years ago.

I am 30 years old my husband is 29. We have been together for a decade/married for 9 of those years. Together we have two young children (8 & 5) and another one due just next month.

Here is some back story before I jump right in.

Back in 2007, when our marriage was just a year old, I had an affair that lasted several months. I ended up leaving my husband because, although I had ended the affair, I felt disgusted with myself and like my husband deserved better. I also questioned if I could truly love him if I was so willing to betray him in the way I did. He did not want me to leave; he was willing to work it out, but I felt we needed this time apart. It was a very emotional parting. He begged me to stay, and through tears I told him we needed to do this.

As we were apart, we both saw other people. Our separation lasted an entire year before I came back home. It took me months to realize that my husband was who I belonged with, and with open arms, he welcomed me home. That was in early 2009. I made a vow to him to never betray him, and he told me that he would never use my past against me. It's a vow that I have yet to break.

We had our second child over a year later and everything, up to that point, was going well.

Until I discovered, when our baby was just a few months old, that he had been back in contact with his ex (a woman he saw while we were apart; one whom he ended things with to reconcile with me). He had told her that he missed her and wanted to hang out with her one last time. I found out immediately (she ratted him out) and that ended instantly. I was very hurt. Here I was, just a few months post pardum, feeling at my worst, and I just found out that my husband was "missing" his ex. He apologized profusely and I accepted-- after all, my current mindset was that I had done so much worse to him a couple years back.

Fast forward two years (and no further incidences), and I discover that he had been mass texting another woman (a friend of a friend). It went on for a month and several hundred messages later. He tried to convince me that it was strictly platonic, but I'm no fool. I confronted them both, and they both swear it was strictly an EA. I have been unable to prove otherwise. Promises were made to cut contact, and those promises were followed through. Again, I accepted it as my "due karma" frown

Fast forward one more year and we had an incident while we were out dancing with several couple friends. Husband went outside the dance club for a smoke break and I noticed it was taking him a long time to come back in. When I went out, I found him sitting on a bench, in a drunken haze, with some woman standing between his legs, his arms around her waist, her arms around his shoulders, and their heads bent in closely to each other, while talking. I immediately confronted them both, raising hell. They were both highly intoxicated so they pretty much laughed it off. A huge fight escalated between my husband and me afterward which included me looking like a raving lunatic, in public, and him watching me with disdain in his eyes.

The following morning, he apologized profusely. He attributed it to alcohol (an addiction that he was able to kick after this incident) and wanted to do anything to make it up to me. It took some time, but I forgave him. I don't know why I was not catching on to a pattern here.

Fast forward a year and everything was great again (it always was in between each occurrence). We decided to try for our third and last child early last year. It took a few months, but we found out we were expecting in July of '14.

He began working intense hours due to his plant locking out several hundred union workers. For four months straight, he worked seven 12's, all night shift. His exhaustion took over and all he could do was sleep and work. He could barely stay awake for an hour in between sleep and work to spend time with us. His personality changed abruptly and I noticed he lost that light in his eyes that I always adored.

In November he went out for a guys' night while I was out of town visiting a cousin. We chatted while he was out with his buddies and I never had a clue that something would be forming while I was gone. His best friend's sister had come into town for the weekend and she ended up going out with the guys (his best friend's wife, whom is also one of my dearest friends, went along, too). Husband ended up dancing a few country songs with the sister, but that was the end of it....so I was told initially.

A couple of weeks later, I get on my husband's desktop as my laptop was running slow. His facebook page was open and I noticed he had a new private message, so I checked it. No compelling reason to do so, other than something told me to. It was from his best friend's sister. We'll call her OW now. I read through the messages and it was all very platonic; talking about work, etc. They do not work together. In fact, she lives 6 hours away.. but they both work the night shift, and I guess that was a bonding factor for them.

However, I noticed that some of the early messages had been deleted, since the first first message was obviously not the start of them. It sent a huge red flag that WH (what I will now call him) had been deleting them.. obviously not a good sign. I called him immediately and asked him if he had anything he wanted to fess up to. He instantly said, "I'm guessing you mean the messages between OW and me?" I said yes. He apologized and said they were just friends and had been chatting amicably about work and what not. I asked why he was deleting them, then, if it was so platonic? His response was that he knew it would upset me, but that he would halt contact.

The next morning, when he came home, he was very loving and apologetic. He told me that he had informed her that they needed to stop communicating as it was upsetting me and he did not want to cause any problems in our marriage. According to him, she was very compliant.

A few weeks go by and we are, seemingly, back to normal. Until December 5th, the night of our daughter's Christmas program at her preschool. My good friend (OW's sister-in-law) confronted me with some disturbing news she had just found out the day before. She said that WH and OW were still in contact; this time via Snapchat. I knew that WH had a snapchat, but we were on each other's friends list, and I felt that, if they had been communicating, I would have known (I began checking his account every so often). Turns out, WH made a secondary account that only OW knew about. frown

I immediately confronted him. Maybe it wasn't the opportune time, but there was no way I could sit for the next hour, through our daughter's performance, and pretend nothing happened. He was angry that I was calling him out then and there, especially because his mother was sitting next to him. I told her what was going on (she knew of their initial contact via Facebook because I had told her- we are very close). She was livid with him.

Following the program, he told his boss that he could not go to work that night due to personal issues. We came home and hashed it out. He admitted that he never stopped talking to her. That they now communicated on his work phone (isn't allowed to leave the plant he works at) and through his other snapchat account. This time he didn't try to deny that their correspondence had been inappropriate. He was very apologetic and told me that he would truly cut off contact this time.

Fast forward through Christmas and the New Year. He claimed they had zero contact, and I could never prove anything through snapchat (he disabled the second account) and our cell phone accounts, but I always knew he had a huge opportunity every night when he went to work. We were fighting constantly because I felt he was not putting forth any effort to make things right between us. It was as if he felt my grief should be put on a time line and he did not understand why I was "still" upset over everything.

Then comes January 4th- a day that changed everything for us.

We got into a huge fight the night before while he was at work. When he came home, I asked if we could talk. We had a long talk while lying in bed together. He just kept saying that he was tired of hurting me. That, for some reason, he kept falling into an EA with different women, and that I deserved better. He did not feel he could truly promise me he would never do it again because, in his own words, "his actions proved otherwise". It ended with him saying, "I love you, but I no longer am in love with you". I told him that, if he truly felt that way, that he could leave.

Big mistake because he did.

He has been staying at his mother's ever since. He did "come back" for two days, about three weeks into this. The first day it almost felt "normal". I could see that old light in his eyes. He was loving and affectionate and gave me all the attention that I had been begging for the past couple of years. Then he went to work that night and, the next day, everything had changed again (surprise, surprise- because he talked to her that night- although, at this point he was still denying contact).

Our children have been crushed through this. Initially he told them that he was leaving because he no longer loved me in the way that a man should love his wife (and at that time it was what I thought to be the full truth, too). They cry for him almost nightly because, while he may have treated me less than desirable, he was always a great father to them (and still is). Our son is about to start counseling on Monday just so he has a healthy outlet for his burst of emotions he is going through.

Last week was a game changer, though. I noticed a random number on our phone account, and when I googled it, a hotel popped up. I just knew then. And even though I knew at that point, I still had to see for myself. I drove to the hotel and, sure enough, saw his vehicle AND the OW's. I confronted them when they exited. She would not say a single word to me, and the only time I saw any flicker of emotion in her eyes is when I threatened to call HR on her. She is a *marriage and family counselor* of all occupations. I told her she was unworthy of such a career and would be reporting her so that her bosses knew just what kind of marriage counselor she really was- one that liked to wreck families herself (according to my friend- OW's SIL- this isn't the first married man she's tried to get involved with). I have pictures of them leaving the room together and of her getting into her vehicle.

Keep in mind that, at this point, I was already 8 months pregnant. As much violence was waging in my mind, the safety of my unborn daughter was worth far more than revenge.

WH was so cruel to me in her presence. He called me a psycho, said I was crazy, and that this was the reason he left me. He said that I had no business being this upset because I had cheated on him 8 years ago. That I'm a hypocrite, etc. His words hurt me more than seeing him leave that room with her.

That evening he came over to see the kids (I should have denied him, I know) and he apologized for his words. He said he did not mean them, but that he was immediately on the defensive when he realized he was caught. He also said that the only reason he did not tell me OW was still in his life was because he was worried it would send me into preterm labor. That he was going to wait until after I had the baby to tell me.

As for who all knows? EVERYONE.

His parents, her parents, his boss and co-workers, friends, my family, etc.

His parents are so enraged with him. Her parents were very upset to hear the news, but they also quickly shoved it from their minds. She's a single 26 year old who, although has her Masters degree, is still being supported by her parents. His boss is angry with him, but would never fire him as WH is such an asset to his company. He has lost friends over this, too. As for her friends? Well, she immediately deactivated her Facebook when she left the hotel that day. However, my friend and her husband (so, OW's brother) were the ones who ratted her out to her parents. They are both incredibly angry at what has taken place.

So, here I am today.

It's been a little over a week since this all came to fruition. I have my days where I am so livid/hurt that I wonder why on earth I could ever actually WANT him back. But then I do, and I can't help that. I know we have been through so much more than any couple should, but when our times were good, they were great.

We are on good terms right now. He feels our marriage is unsalavageable because he believes he'd hurt me all over again. I've tried to convince him to get help for his addiction to EA's. He says he loves me deeply and is still attracted to me, but he doesn't feel like it should take this much to make a marriage work; that it should come naturally. He doesn't feel marriage counselors are worth their salt, especially given the woman he's been seeing is one herself. I feel she has been using her education to manipulate him into thinking our marriage cannot be fixed.

He has admitted that, deep down, he has never been able to forgive me for what I did to him so many years ago. This confession blew me away because *never once* (and I mean that genuinely) has he brought up what I did. Never once has he thrown it in my face during an argument- not even while arguing about his own infidelity. Never once has he so much as hinted that he was struggling with forgiveness.

I feel like, if he had just been honest about that years ago, that we could have fixed this before it tore us apart
.

And I think this is why I feel like there is still a chance. Did I really destroy him so much that he is now incapable of being faithful? Did I bring this on myself?

He goes back and forth with me. Some days he is adamantly done. Other days it's as if he would like to believe there's hope, but he just worries that we are too far gone.

I'm not really sure what I am asking at this point. Everything has already been exposed- minus her work- and truthfully there's a reason for that. If she were to get fired, she would, no doubt, move back down here to her parents and then she would be a LOCAL threat to us, not a 6 hours away kind of threat.

Yes, they are still talking. I truly believe the only way he'll come back to me is if they fall apart. So that leaves me wondering if this is even worth it. Do I lower myself so much that I just sit here and WAIT for their relationship to fall apart so that THEN he'll come back to me? Am I really worth second fiddle? As much as I love him and WANT him home so badly, how much of myself do I sacrifice in the process?

It's just so hard when your heart wants one thing, but your mind is trying to convince you that you are worth more.
Welcome to MB.

The things that he says now about your affair 8 years ago, in the passage that I underlined, are rationalisations for his behaviour today. They are completely irrelevant; they are not motivations for his behaviour. If he had been unable to get past his resentment he would have left you, not had several affairs and THEN left you.

He wants to have affairs - and indeed we are all wired to be attracted to people and let them meet our needs - and he lets himself do what he wants. He is not prepared to have barriers around women, and if a spark is created between him and a woman, he will follow it through. Welcome to your future if you go back to him.

My dear, you need to be in Plan B yesterday. You need to cut off all direct contact between you and your husband. Don't even be in the same room when he visits his newborn baby next month - and don't think of letting him be present at the birth.

Is your H supporting you financially? You need to see a lawyer about getting support legalised. If he wants to see his children, you need to make arrangements for him to pick them up and drop them off with someone other than you. If you plan to breastfeed, he does not need to see the new baby at all if you find this too difficult to arrange between frequent feeds.

He has made his choice by being with that whore. Protect yourself from any more direct hurt from him and go to Plan B. Do you know what that is?


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Originally Posted by bdb84
Originally Posted by black_raven
As someone who was married to a serial cheater, I would strongly advise you to think long and hard about the EPs that you would have to live with if you continue in this marriage. I personally was not willing to live with such EPs that a serial cheater requires and I also had too much resentment towards my then WH.


What are EPs? Sorry, I'm trying to familiarize myself with all of the acronyms.

I guess I was just hoping that his addiction to EAs could be cured through specific therapies/support groups. Is that not possible?

EPs = Extraordinary Precautions....measures you would have to take to affair proof your marriage. With a serial cheater, it is all the more extra extra extraordinary.

WH doesn't need therapy or support groups. He needs to stop acting like a pathetic loser who can't cope and wants attention from other women besides his wife.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Welcome to MB.

The things that he says now about your affair 8 years ago, in the passage that I underlined, are rationalisations for his behaviour today. They are completely irrelevant; they are not motivations for his behaviour. If he had been unable to get past his resentment he would have left you, not had several affairs and THEN left you.

He wants to have affairs - and indeed we are all wired to be attracted to people and let them meet our needs - and he lets himself do what he wants. He is not prepared to have barriers around women, and if a spark is created between him and a woman, he will follow it through. Welcome to your future if you go back to him.

My dear, you need to be in Plan B yesterday. You need to cut off all direct contact between you and your husband. Don't even be in the same room when he visits his newborn baby next month - and don't think of letting him be present at the birth.

Is your H supporting you financially? You need to see a lawyer about getting support legalised. If he wants to see his children, you need to make arrangements for him to pick them up and drop them off with someone other than you. If you plan to breastfeed, he does not need to see the new baby at all if you find this too difficult to arrange between frequent feeds.

He has made his choice by being with that whore. Protect yourself from any more direct hurt from him and go to Plan B. Do you know what that is?

This is what I'm struggling with most. His right to his unborn child. We have fought back and forth regarding his right to be there when she is born. Some days I am absolutely against it, and other days I feel he has just as much a right to be there as I do (granted I'm the only one actively laboring).

Yes, he is supporting us financially 100%. He moved out of our home and wants us to stay here while he stays at his mom's. He has yet to make any financial demands. He told me to use the account as I would if we were together. I know that most of that is said out of guilt, and will not last. I just hesitate to take legal actions because I still long for this to work out. frown

I have read some of Plan B, but I'll look into it again. Does one continue with Plan B if they decide to follow through with divorce? Or is it as a last resort at reconciliation?


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Originally Posted by bdb84
What are EPs? Sorry, I'm trying to familiarize myself with all of the acronyms.
Extraordinary precautions that all married people should take at all times, to guard against affairs. They include things like not socialising with members of the opposite sex (without your spouse) - no going for coffee and lunches with OS colleagues, no sport or personal training with the opposite sex - and no travelling jobs and nights spent apart, and complete transparency with phones and email accounts.

Originally Posted by bdb84
I guess I was just hoping that his addiction to EAs could be cured through specific therapies/support groups. Is that not possible?
I hate to tell you that he has never had an EA - they have all been PAs - and what you are calling an "addiction" is simply his attraction to the opposite sex. There is no cure for being attracted to the opposite sex; we all are. It is a normal part of human sexuality. Married people - including you and me - do not lose our ability to find certain people desirable.

What married people do, if they are to avoid affairs, is that they do not allow initial attractions to develop. They do not form friendships with neighbours, colleagues or old boyfriends/girlfriends, and they do not hang out in bars and clubs.

However, our faulty thinking often leads us to believe that if someone is not initially attractive to us, they are safe, and we can form friendships with them. That is how so many affairs take place with people that make the spouse's jaw drop when they see them; old, fat, short, plug ugly, trampy and bald, it makes no difference; if you can form a friendship with a member of the opposite sex, you can fall in love with them and have an affair. I hope that you have been doing all the right things to avoid having an affair, since the one 8 years ago.

Your H is not "addicted" to affairs. He is unwilling to take extraordinary precautions to ensure that he is faithful in his marriage. It is a matter of conscious attitude, not uncontrollable addiction.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
I hate to tell you that he has never had an EA - they have all been PAs - and what you are calling an "addiction" is simply his attraction to the opposite sex.

Agree with all SugarCane has posted to you, especially this ^^^^.

There has been physical contact. These are not EAs.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
I hate to tell you that he has never had an EA - they have all been PAs - and what you are calling an "addiction" is simply his attraction to the opposite sex.

Curious as to how you can be so certain? The other woman whom he had a long standing texting affair with did not live locally, either, and I have always been able to account for his whereabouts. dontknow



Quote
I hope that you have been doing all the right things to avoid having an affair, since the one 8 years ago.

I already said I have. I do not put myself into positions that one could even question my motives.


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Originally Posted by bdb84
This is what I'm struggling with most. His right to his unborn child. We have fought back and forth regarding his right to be there when she is born. Some days I am absolutely against it, and other days I feel he has just as much a right to be there as I do (granted I'm the only one actively laboring).

Yes, he is supporting us financially 100%. He moved out of our home and wants us to stay here while he stays at his mom's. He has yet to make any financial demands. He told me to use the account as I would if we were together. I know that most of that is said out of guilt, and will not last. I just hesitate to take legal actions because I still long for this to work out. frown

I have read some of Plan B, but I'll look into it again. Does one continue with Plan B if they decide to follow through with divorce? Or is it as a last resort at reconciliation?
Oh, please give up all ideas about his rights to his children. He is not interested in his rights to his children., He is only interested in showing you that you can't paint him as a bad father just because he walked out on you. "I walked out on you, not them, and I am still their loving father" - that's his message, and it is balderdash.

He is of no use to a newborn baby. What can he really offer her, by being present at the birth and seeing her for a couple of hours twice a week - while she sleeps? His wish to be there is to make a symbolic gesture about what a good man he still is, and how the two of you should be capable of being civilised and putting the children first. (Give me strength.)

All you need to focus on from this day forward is your own (and the children's) mental health, and that will not be served by your having any contact with him whatsoever, and especially not by his being there at the birth. Can you imagine how emotional and upset that is going to make you feel? You will bond with him and rely on him - like it or not - when you are in labour and when that perfect tiny specimen that you created jointly is put in both your arms, and then you will have to watch him kiss the baby goodbye and go back to his whore, at that time of all times. Don't do it to yourself. You may never get over that.

The only thing that matters with regard to the unborn baby is that you stay physically and mentally healthy and well enough to cope with the forthcoming child, and with dealing with her alone after the birth. Your H is irrelevant to her now. He sacked himself from the job of father when he moved out. She does not know him. She can get to know him as she gets bigger and capable of being without you for three of four hours. The older children do know him and will want to see him, so if he wants to see them, let him take them for whole days.

Do not allow him to be in your presence, "supporting" you in childbirth and playing the good daddy to the baby he abandoned. He doesn't know her, and she doesn't need him. She needs you, and she needs you healthy and sane.


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Are bb84 and bdb84 the same poster?

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This is all so hard to read. I know it's what I need to hear, but it's so much harder to act on this than I thought it would be.


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Originally Posted by bdb84
Curious as to how you can be so certain? The other woman whom he had a long standing texting affair with did not live locally, either, and I have always been able to account for his whereabouts. dontknow
I take it that they have planes, boats, cars and trains where you live?

My H had a 3.5-year PA with a woman who did not even live in our country (the UK), and I thought I knew where he was - in a broad sense - every day. However, sometimes when I thought he was at work in London, he was in a hotel room or in her house in Belgium. You can get to Belgium after breakfast at home, have a quick screw in a hotel room, and be back in time for dinner, as I found out. If you tell your spouse you'll be in meetings for some of the day - and if said spouse works and has meetings of her own sometimes, she will never catch you out.

The OW in this equation used to spend time in these hotels with him, simply telling her H to call her on her mobile phone if he needed her. How would he ever know where she was? Having her affair partner keep quiet during the phone call, and trying not to giggle while he kissed her neck, was no doubt part of the thrill of the affair.

I'm sorry to say that you have a lot to learn, and even sorrier that I can teach it to you.


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Originally Posted by helpfordad
Are bb84 and bdb84 the same poster?
Can you provide a link, please? I thought I'd seen a similar name, but I don't have time to search just now.


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Originally Posted by helpfordad
Are bb84 and bdb84 the same poster?

This is my only account.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
My H had a 3.5-year PA with a woman who did not even live in our country (the UK), and I thought I knew where he was - in a broad sense - every day. However, sometimes when I thought he was at work in London, he was in a hotel room or in her house in Belgium.


My XH had multiple affairs over a 16 year period. Same thing, I always knew where he was. I had no clue that he was cheating. I'm sure the slag was right there and he would just tell her to be quiet while he spoke to me on the phone.


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Also here,
Serial Cheaters


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I am in a very similar situation.. I had an alcohol-related one-night stand very early in our relationship. I cut off contact after, and did whatever I could to make it right. My husband has serially cheated on me, and had long-term relationships with at least 3 women since then, all of which I uncovered, and all of which he blamed on that one night.

**EDIT**

moderators note: please familiarize yourself with MB concepts before posting advice to others.

Last edited by Denali; 02/14/15 11:19 AM. Reason: TOS TOS non MB advice
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Originally Posted by rumaguzi
I am in a very similar situation.. I had an alcohol-related one-night stand very early in our relationship. I cut off contact after, and did whatever I could to make it right. My husband has serially cheated on me, and had long-term relationships with at least 3 women since then, all of which I uncovered, and all of which he blamed on that one night. **edit**

The advice on this site is very worth following and basically the only thing that will work if you want to save your marriage and/or yourself. Recovering from serial cheating is VERY difficult because it has become a lifestyle as sugarcane mentioned. Please follow the advice of the veterans on this thread, go into Plan B, and take care of yourself prior to your baby's birth. If you can, go to someplace you will either be far away or protected completely from your WH. You need safety, comfort and support during this time and need to be around people who will offer it.

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Is Plan B something I should still follow if I decide not to reconcile? At this point I'm leaning towards divorce as much as it kills me to even consider.



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Plan B is your only shot at reconciliation, actually. Right now he is getting to have you AND his other woman. He has two people to meet his needs. You should not be meeting his needs if he does not end his affair. He will do one of two things in Plan B: a) figure out that he cannot have you if he acts this way and take extraordinary precautions to save his marriage OR b) continue what he is doing and lose you. Either way, you are better off. You cannot live in these conditions.


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Originally Posted by bdb84
Is Plan B something I should still follow if I decide not to reconcile? At this point I'm leaning towards divorce as much as it kills me to even consider.
Yes. We have many BS whom are divorced and stay in Plan B.


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Did you read the IM training link and parallel parenting link in here also?


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Are you exposing to her workplace?


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Did you read the IM training link and parallel parenting link in here also?


Yes, I did.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Are you exposing to her workplace?


Yes. I am currently in the process of trying to find that information. The moment I threatened exposure to her (last week, when I caught them at the hotel), she deactivated her Facebook profile which had her work information on it.


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I really am struggling with the notion that I brought this all onto myself by cheating, initially, 8 years ago. Though I have never given him another reason to doubt me (we were separated an entire year), I worry that this truly is my doing. Did I so truly destroy him that he then felt no obligation to remain faithful to me? But if so, why would he have begged for my return the entire year we were apart? And why would he not have expressed his concerns to me even once? I really feel like, if he had, all of this could have been prevented.

I guess the biggest reason for my concern over this is feeling like it's partially my fault. That I brought it onto myself.


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You didn't. This was his choice. He is blaming you to justify his own actions. Cheating is never the fault of the betrayed spouse. If he was so damaged by it, he should have left you when it happened. He didn't. He does have an obligation to be faithful to you and don't believe is ridiculous rationalizations.

Having an affair is never good, but you don't deserve a series of revenge affairs.

Believe me. Many of us are deeply wounded by our spouses affairs. I am and I am probably going to divorce my husband, but I would never have a revenge affair and blame it on him. Getting romantically involved with anyone is a choice.

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Originally Posted by bdb84
I really am struggling with the notion that I brought this all onto myself by cheating, initially, 8 years ago. Though I have never given him another reason to doubt me (we were separated an entire year), I worry that this truly is my doing. Did I so truly destroy him that he then felt no obligation to remain faithful to me? But if so, why would he have begged for my return the entire year we were apart? And why would he not have expressed his concerns to me even once? I really feel like, if he had, all of this could have been prevented.

I guess the biggest reason for my concern over this is feeling like it's partially my fault. That I brought it onto myself.
We dealt with this argument several posts up.He is using your affair from 8 years ago simply to rationalise his own behaviour today. the one affair is not the cause of all the otehrs.

bdb, you need to stop ruminating over what he has said and how that is making you feel, and concentrate on action. This forum focuses on action and on getting things done.

Where are you in your plans for exposure and for Plan B?


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Don't listen to his excuses for having affairs.
As you have never snooped on him structurally, he may have even had affairs before that that you haven't caught. Follow the advice here to save your sanity and possibly your marriage.

As to the birth of your child, he has no right whatsoever to intrude in that situation. The US courts have recently ruled, that a father cannot insist on being present at the birth of the child if the mother does not want him there.
Besides, an older study from England found that birth was up to 50% shorter without the father (or any other man) present. For all it's worth, let it benefit you.

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Their affair has been exposed to everyone minus her workplace. I am still trying to find that information. I know she works in the Dallas area, but am unable to pin point the exact office. She deactivated her Facebook the moment after I confronted them both at the hotel (as she was leaving) because I tipped her off, in a fit of anger, that I was going to expose her to her bosses.

Other than her work place, EVERYONE knows. All three sets of parents (mine, his, hers), all three sides of the family, all friends, WH's boss, etc.

As for Plan B? I'm in the works of that right now. I was hesitant at first because I was not sure I was ready to take that step, but after finding out last night that there was another PA (one that was originally "just" an EA), my heart hardened to the idea of reconciliation. At this point I am not using Plan B as a last resort method at reconciliation. I am doing it because it is what it best for my well being.

I'm trying to decide on an IM. Is a family member of his a no-no even if said member is on my "side". It's his sister, who think he is the biggest pig on the planet now. She's also currently going through the same thing with her WH, so we have been a source of comfort to each other lately. I have no fears that she will turn on me, but other than that, my two closest girl friends both had babies within the past month and I do not feel right requesting their help in this when they should be bonding with their newborns. All of my family live out of the area.


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Regarding exposure- if it doesn't have the negative effect you were hoping for, then what?

Everyone who knows is livid with the both of them, but it hasn't changed anything regarding their A. If anything, he is no longer secretive about it, and it has made it all the easier on them.

WH has lost friends. OW has lost friends (according to her brother). WH's boss is ashamed of him but that's the end of it at work. His family continuously tell him he's in the wrong and needs to work on the marriage; to which he just replies that he is doing me a favor by leaving and staying gone. OW's parents are disappointed in her, angry at him, but are actively choosing to not get involved.

In his mind he was the bigger person by leaving me since he knew he was incapable (or, rather, had no intention) of being faithful. He believes this will work out, in the long run, with the OW, and feels that working on our marriage is, in his words, "just beating a dead horse".

I accept that we are over, and am willing to make strides in quickening that process.. but I can't help but feel a bit disappointed in the fact that Exposure wasn't the huge tsunami that I had read it to be.

Last edited by bdb84; 02/15/15 08:40 PM.

Me/BW- 30
WH- 30
Separated ("ILY but I'm not in love w/ you")- 01/15
D'Day- 02/15
Two kids (8, 5) & due with #3 in March
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This sounds like a fantastically successful exposure to me - it's simply that the affair is quite embedded.

So they will have stopped cake eating and will try to make it work full time with the world waiting for them to fail.

Affairs only work part time with a healthy dose of fantasy and a common enemy - the BS. Full time, with none of these ingredients, with everyone hating them - the affair comes under massive strain.

You just need to get yourself safe into Plan B knowing they are living on borrowed time.

No matter what, Plan B will heal you.



Last edited by indiegirl; 02/16/15 04:47 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by bdb84
In his mind he was the bigger person by leaving me since he knew he was incapable (or, rather, had no intention) of being faithful. He believes this will work out, in the long run, with the OW, and feels that working on our marriage is, in his words, "just beating a dead horse". .


How kind of him!

Don't waste time on examining the mind of a drunk. My theory is Plan B will actually get you over this before the affair implodes and you won't want this serial cheater back by the time he's ready if he ever is.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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I veto the sister idea. You need someone calm, impartial and with no drama.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Thank you, indiegirl, for your insight.

I'm going to speak to my best friend this afternoon to see if she will be up for helping me. Otherwise I'll simply let the kids out of the front door when he comes by to pick them up without so much as letting him get a glimpse of me.

As for healing, my son has his first counseling session this afternoon to help him deal with the excess emotions he's been experiencing since his dad left.

Question regarding exposure to an 8 year old- he knows that his dad left me for another woman. I told him that his dad no longer wanted to be with me, but with this woman instead. He does not know about sex yet, so I hesitate to take the explanation any further. Is this acceptable for now?

My other child is newly 5 and all she knows is that her dad no longer lives here.

As for me- I had my 35 week prenatal appointment and spilled the beans to my OB. He's an amazing man who had some choice words for my WH along with a ton of advice and support. Due to my unstable emotions, and my delivery being weeks away, he feels I need to be put on an anti-depressant. He prescribed Zoloft and I've already dropped off the script. He said that who belongs in the delivery room is up to him, and if WH gives me any trouble about being in there (against my wishes), that he has no problem kicking him out for me. I was also given a list of three psychologists that he highly recommends, that have a lot of experience dealing with post pardum depression (as a precaution for me post-delivery). I was also given a repeat STD panel and should have the results by my next appointment (next week).

So, progress is being made and it feels good.


Me/BW- 30
WH- 30
Separated ("ILY but I'm not in love w/ you")- 01/15
D'Day- 02/15
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Originally Posted by bdb84
Question regarding exposure to an 8 year old- he knows that his dad left me for another woman. I told him that his dad no longer wanted to be with me, but with this woman instead. He does not know about sex yet, so I hesitate to take the explanation any further. Is this acceptable for now?

My other child is newly 5 and all she knows is that her dad no longer lives here.

It's up to you but I started talking to my children early about their bodies and relationships. They didn't understand all the technical aspects of sex but they understood there was physical contact involved. They understood that OW was taking off her clothes to get naked with their dad...and kissing him...that alone grossed them out and they thought she was a pig. My kids were 6 and 8 at the time.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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84,
Welcome to MB. I'm sorry for the events in your life that brought you here. I'm glad you have come around to the notion of plan B. I suggest picking up Dr Harleys book Surviving An Affair.

It's true the best thing you can do right now is to protect your welfare and the well-being and welfare of your children. The affair fog your husband is spouting and all the gaslighting that goes along with it is cruel and toxic and the exact opposite of whAt you need. Plan B can also be a best practice for stopping your love bank from taking any more hits. You don't need anymore drama. Wayward are stealth in using shame and guilt to rationalize their poor boundaries around OS and projecting blame. My husband tried to convince me and others my life threatening illness made him do it!

Also about this whores workplace where abouts....why don't you ask your sister-in-law or the OW parent where she works?


BW 58
WH 61
married 35 years
2 adult children
2 grandchildren

"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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I don't think there's anything intrinsically more dramatic about a physical affair than an emotional affair anyway. The important thing is that the child knows the person is coming between their family and is an enemy.

I'd let the child's questions guide you as to the rest. They should be encouraged to talk to you and express their thoughts.

If they already know something of sex, they will probably ask about it. I'm not sure that this particular example should be their first introduction to sex if not.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

bdb84 #2843454 02/17/15 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bdb84
My other child is newly 5 and all she knows is that her dad no longer lives here.


That will be tremendously confusing for her. Tell her he goes to see a woman (name her) he considers his girlfriend. When married people do that it is very wrong and it is called adultery.

You can tell her that you are encouraging dad to stop. You should also tell her to share her feelings with dad.

She will find much more help in this than trying to figure it out alone. Little girls are also murder on affairs!



Last edited by indiegirl; 02/17/15 08:52 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by bdb84
My other child is newly 5 and all she knows is that her dad no longer lives here.


That will be tremendously confusing for her. Tell her he goes to see a woman (name her) he considers his girlfriend. When married people do that it is very wrong and it is called adultery.

You can tell her that you are encouraging dad to stop. You should also tell her to share her feelings with dad.

She will find much more help in this than trying to figure it out alone. Little girls are also murder on affairs!

I told them both, in a bit more detail, last night. I told them that, when you are married, you promise to make it last the rest of your lives. You only kiss and show intimacy to your husband and wife, but that Daddy chose to do this with another woman instead. Cue questions about kissing relatives and, of course, I explained the difference to them.

They both asked if this meant Daddy would marry her instead of staying with me, and I told them that we are all trying to make sure that doesn't happen.


Me/BW- 30
WH- 30
Separated ("ILY but I'm not in love w/ you")- 01/15
D'Day- 02/15
Two kids (8, 5) & due with #3 in March
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Wouldn't your close friend (OW's sister-in-law) be able to get you her employment information?

You don't have to tell her what you're going to do with it.
Just have a conversation with her, and say you "can't believe she's a real counselor"...."what kind of place does she work at?"
and ferret out enough information to find her employer.

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Originally Posted by bdb84
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by bdb84
My other child is newly 5 and all she knows is that her dad no longer lives here.


That will be tremendously confusing for her. Tell her he goes to see a woman (name her) he considers his girlfriend. When married people do that it is very wrong and it is called adultery.

You can tell her that you are encouraging dad to stop. You should also tell her to share her feelings with dad.

She will find much more help in this than trying to figure it out alone. Little girls are also murder on affairs!

I told them both, in a bit more detail, last night. I told them that, when you are married, you promise to make it last the rest of your lives. You only kiss and show intimacy to your husband and wife, but that Daddy chose to do this with another woman instead. Cue questions about kissing relatives and, of course, I explained the difference to them.

They both asked if this meant Daddy would marry her instead of staying with me, and I told them that we are all trying to make sure that doesn't happen.


It always impresses me how quick children are to see the threat. Keep talking to them and encourage them to talk to you.

Now that they know where the fault and the danger lies, they won't blame themselves like a lot of kids do.




Last edited by indiegirl; 02/17/15 12:10 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

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Can you look on LinkedIn for her job? Most people have something on it.

I would also do an internet exposure. The OW in my case comes from a crazy family apparently because they didn't care about the affair and the boss at their work place didn't either. But the internet exposure on Cheaterville, Cheater Report, etc. really put a dent in their affair and sent her over the edge. Even if you want to get a divorce, you do not want this woman to ever be around your kids, so use every means of exposure at your disposal.


Me: 38, have been divorced for 4 years
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Below is a link to Texas Dept of Health Services where you can look up a licensee. Search by name...

https://vo.ras.dshs.state.tx.us/datamart/selSearchTypeTXRAS.do?from=loginPage

Link to homepage that may have info to help you:

https://www.dshs.state.tx.us/mft/default.shtm

Last edited by black_raven; 02/17/15 12:51 PM.

BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Have you seen this? Exposing to Children


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WH
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Wouldn't your close friend (OW's sister-in-law) be able to get you her employment information?

You don't have to tell her what you're going to do with it.
Just have a conversation with her, and say you "can't believe she's a real counselor"...."what kind of place does she work at?"
and ferret out enough information to find her employer.


All she knows is that she works for an MHMR facility in the Dallas area, but there are 3 in that particular area. She's going to try to get information herself since OW has been ignoring all calls made from her parents and brother.

I checked to see if she had a LinkedIn profile, but nothing came up.

Originally Posted by black_raven
Below is a link to Texas Dept of Health Services where you can look up a licensee. Search by name...

https://vo.ras.dshs.state.tx.us/datamart/selSearchTypeTXRAS.do?from=loginPage

Link to homepage that may have info to help you:

https://www.dshs.state.tx.us/mft/default.shtm


She is newly graduated, I believe, and is currently not practicing. She works in the mental health field right now, so I believe that is why I cannot find her on these websites. mad

I sent her parents an email this morning. Two weeks ago, when the A was caught, her brother called to inform his parents of what was going on, but nothing was done regarding it. These parents think the sun and moon revolves around their daughter, so they always sweep her indiscretions under the rug (this isn't the first marriage she has tried to break up, but the first one she SUCCEEDED at).

So I sent them an email personally this morning asking for their help in breaking up this A. I let them know the extent of the damage the A has caused my children and me, etc. I'm unsure if they will reply, but beyond that, I feel like I've done all that I could.

Regardless of whether or not WH and I divorce, I do not want my children around this woman at all.

Speaking of, I think exposing to them was the best thing I could have done for THEM. It just made sense to my 8 year old son. He's hurting over it, but now he can put a reason to his father's actions and quit accepting blame for it. I'm so thankful I took that advice.

Last edited by bdb84; 02/18/15 11:19 AM.

Me/BW- 30
WH- 30
Separated ("ILY but I'm not in love w/ you")- 01/15
D'Day- 02/15
Two kids (8, 5) & due with #3 in March
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Get on the phone to each of those 3 facilities and call the main number. Ask for OW by name. She works somewhere!
At one of those, they will begin to transfer you to either her extention or her department. Bingo.

Then Expose to her employer!
This is urgent!

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Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Get on the phone to each of those 3 facilities and call the main number. Ask for OW by name. She works somewhere!
At one of those, they will begin to transfer you to either her extention or her department. Bingo.

Then Expose to her employer!
This is urgent!

Ye!!! This needs to be followed through with. It's only 3 businesses. It would only take 3 phone calls.

LTL

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Originally Posted by bdb84
Speaking of, I think exposing to them was the best thing I could have done for THEM. It just made sense to my 8 year old son. He's hurting over it, but now he can put a reason to his father's actions and quit accepting blame for it. I'm so thankful I took that advice.
bdb, do you think you could make this point on the Exposure the children thread that brainy sent to you? So many people doubt the wisdom of this.

I've been meaning to get back to you about what I wrote about not having your H in the delivery room, and not letting him coo over the new baby in front of you (a proper Plan B from now, in other words).

Forgive me, but I think that someone in your position might be hoping that the magical qualities of holding a new life in one's arms will work on your H's heart; I know that's what I'd be hoping, in your shoes. But the problem is that even if his heart melted temporarily at the first sight of his tiny daughter's enormous beauty and vulnerability, that alone would not work for long to keep him with you. He has two other children who have been crying their eyes out for him, and that hasn't worked to make him grow up.

That tiny baby will grow quickly; think how soon that newborn magic wears off. He will soon be faced with your tiredness, his lack of sleep, the chaos that a newborn brings, the lack of sex for a while and the general downside of new parenthood. It won't be enough to make him stay, if he isn't committed to putting right the wrong he did by getting involved with his whore. And she won't leave him alone; an unmarried other woman is a terrible, defiant, pathetic creature, with no husband or children of her own to think about, and only wanting the married man to make good on his promises to her. She thinks that her ability to turn around the commitment he once made to you and the kids is a sign of how much he loves her. His married state is an aphrodisiac and a challenge. She won't give up, and if she can contact him, she can lure him back.

If he isn't committed to rebuilding his marriage, starting with NC with her and continuing with extraordinary precautions for you, that moment when his new daughter grips his heart won't last for long. If you let him come around you while he plays the loving daddy, you might just as well be another subject of the Jerry Springer show - "my husband held my hand while I gave birth, then went home with his mistress who was waiting outside!"

Don't let that happen.


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She only works on Fridays and Saturdays and she works the night shift. I assume I'll have to wait until Friday? Yes, she's a grown woman (26) whose parents still financially support her.

Sugarcane- You are so right. It's only been a couple of days, but so far we've had no contact. It's hurting my heart but making me stronger at the same time.

Last edited by bdb84; 02/18/15 02:21 PM.

Me/BW- 30
WH- 30
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Regarding exposure-

When I caught WH and the OW leaving the hotel room, OW's brother (who just so happens to be my best friend's husband) had told me that he had filled in his parents on what was going on and that they were very angry.

When I got home that day, I had also sent out a Facebook message to them letting them know what I knew, my proof, and what I was hoping to accomplish by telling them (that they would use their influence over their daughter to get her to cease contact).

Fast forward three weeks and neither parent had ever read the message.

Until yesterday. Her dad finally did. And all hell broke loose.

I received a phone call from WH at 4 in the AM. I should have checked the caller ID before answering, but in my state of exhaustion I answered out of habit. He confused me because although he was questioning my motives in contacting her dad, he wasn't speaking to me angrily. I told him I had sent that message three weeks ago, when I caught them, and he just now read it. That I had sent it when I told everybody about their A. He asked that I leave her family out of it and said "Your problem is with me, so please bring your issues to me". Again, I was taken aback at how gentle he was speaking to me. I expected some angry insults.

Moving on to my big mistake.

I ended up texting the OW yesterday morning. I don't know why. I've been standing tall for weeks now, but yesterday I reached a breaking point. I couldn't stop the tears and I guess I just misdirected my anger.

I let her know just how much she has destroyed my family, how my kids are suffering, how my unborn baby will never have the chance to know her father, how WH's family thinks she is an immoral woman and want absolutely nothing to do with her. How I would make sure she never got a job using her degree (marriage/family counseling), etc.

I know I shouldn't have sent it. I should have went on as if she isn't a factor in my life. I acknowledge my mistake and won't make the same one again. I know that she owes me no loyalty and I should be angrier at WH than her. It's just that my anger with him is mixed in with my love for him, so it's more grief directed towards him as opposed to sheer anger (that I feel for her). I also understand that she knows full well what she was doing, and she doesn't care, so my text to her was pointless.

Anyways- she forwarded it to WH and he got angry. He called me and went off on me. How I'm trying to ruin this for him and do I really expect him to come crawling back to me even if I succeed in ruining their relationship? How he didn't leave me for her (ha-ha).. he was going to leave anyways, blah, blah. I ended up hanging up on him (mature, I know).

And, because I'm a glutton for punishment and apparently enjoy making my own life even harder, I allowed him to come over to see the kids last night after he got off of work. We got along and played together with the kids until it was time for him to leave. He tried to bring up the conversation regarding OW and asking me to direct all of my anger towards him, not her. I said that they both destroyed my life so why should I have any compassion for her? He said that she worked her @-- off for 6 years in school to get her degree and that it was childish of me to try to ruin her career. I simply replied that I owed her no favors. Then he threatened me financially. That if I didn't leave her alone, that if I didn't back off of my "mission to ruin her life", that he would "only give me the 30% that he would legally owe me financially" (as opposed to paying 100% of the bills as he has been since he left in January).

He knows that's my weak point. I'm currently 37 weeks pregnant, about to give birth at any time. He knows there is no way I can get a job any time soon, and that even when I do, I won't be worth much. He knows it will be a struggle for me to pay for everything on my own, even with his 30%. Basically he is trying to manipulate me. He told me that I can let this go and he will continue to support me fully (yeah, right.. until OW demands more $ from him) or I can "be childish" and he'll just give me what he legally owes.

I know that he cannot do that until the divorce is finalized, but it still scares me.

I feel like I royally messed up yesterday and now I don't know what to do. Obviously I'm going back into Plan B, but I feel like that's not enough.

Oh, I meant to add- I figured out her place of work. I reported to HR over a week ago, did a follow up earlier this week and was merely told that since she was not currently using her degree in their place of employment, nor was the "other man" an employee, there was nothing they could or would do.

I feel like a full exposure strengthened their affair if anything. frown

Last edited by bdb84; 02/28/15 11:49 AM.

Me/BW- 30
WH- 30
Separated ("ILY but I'm not in love w/ you")- 01/15
D'Day- 02/15
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You're doing fine. You didn't do anything wrong, and I like all your responses. I hope you'll get a VAR so you can record him making threats like that in the future. It may seem like it's pushing them closer together right now, but it's unlikely to last. You've hit a nerve, and you've caused problems. That's a good thing.


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Thanks MB!
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Why did you break Plan B? That is why you feel like this. That is why a dark Plan B is so important. It helps the BS heal.

When will you be back into Plan B? Do you have a visitation schedule with the kids set up? Do you have an IM?

Have you spoken to a lawyer? You're a SAHM, correct? He will have to continue taking care of the kids financially.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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He is mad because reality is intruding on his affair. Her parents probably want him gone ASAP. Really, who wants a man with a pregnant wife for their daughter? You are doing the right things.

I haven't read the whole thread. Do you have a legal agreement for finances yet?

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Don't worry about it. Just go back into your Plan B. You have already exposed them, so just stop and let them stew. It will fall apart.

Don't have any contact with her or him again in any way, shape or form. Definitely do not let him come over. Go into a very dark plan B. No contact at all. You need that with the impending birth.


Me: 38, have been divorced for 4 years
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Originally Posted by bdb84
I ended up texting the OW yesterday morning. I don't know why. I've been standing tall for weeks now, but yesterday I reached a breaking point. I couldn't stop the tears and I guess I just misdirected my anger.

I let her know just how much she has destroyed my family, how my kids are suffering, how my unborn baby will never have the chance to know her father, how WH's family thinks she is an immoral woman and want absolutely nothing to do with her. How I would make sure she never got a job using her degree (marriage/family counseling), etc.

I know I shouldn't have sent it.

You did nothing wrong by sending this to POSOW. I don't know why you are beating yourself up over it so please stop if you are. Nothing wrong with telling an AP stuff like this.

Texas is an at fault state. You need to go consult an attorney ASAP. I divorced in Texas...the courts here tend to be very conservative and won't take kindly to your WH's adultery and abandonment of his family. There is no such thing as legal separation in Texas. You would have to file for divorce.

In Temporary Orders, your WH can be ordered to pay all the household bills in addition to child and spousal support. Adultery affects property division and custody. I even have a morals clause in my decree that my exWH can't ever bring his former whores around my children.

Please take care of yourself...and consult an attorney ASAP.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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Originally Posted by black_raven
Texas is an at fault state. You need to go consult an attorney ASAP. I divorced in Texas...the courts here tend to be very conservative and won't take kindly to your WH's adultery and abandonment of his family. There is no such thing as legal separation in Texas.


I may move.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Aug 2014
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See a lawyer! What a wonderful thing to be a fault state. Get those temporary orders, record him making threats and take him for everything he's got.

He's in lala land and thinks he just have whatever he wants. A little reality would be very good.

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The standard Divorce Petition even ends with a Prayer! I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the prayer in my Petition. grin

Prayer -

Petitioner prays that citation and notice issue as required by law and that the Court grant a divorce and all other relief requested in this petition.

Petitioner prays for attorneys fees, expenses and costs as requested above.

Petitioner prays for general relief.

Respectfully Submitted,


^^^ There is usually some variation of the above. smile


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
bdb84 #2845721 03/02/15 07:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
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Originally Posted by bdb84
Regarding exposure-

When I caught WH and the OW leaving the hotel room, OW's brother (who just so happens to be my best friend's husband) had told me that he had filled in his parents on what was going on and that they were very angry.

When I got home that day, I had also sent out a Facebook message to them letting them know what I knew, my proof, and what I was hoping to accomplish by telling them (that they would use their influence over their daughter to get her to cease contact).

Fast forward three weeks and neither parent had ever read the message.

Until yesterday. Her dad finally did. And all hell broke loose.

I received a phone call from WH at 4 in the AM. I should have checked the caller ID before answering, but in my state of exhaustion I answered out of habit. He confused me because although he was questioning my motives in contacting her dad, he wasn't speaking to me angrily. I told him I had sent that message three weeks ago, when I caught them, and he just now read it. That I had sent it when I told everybody about their A. He asked that I leave her family out of it and said "Your problem is with me, so please bring your issues to me". Again, I was taken aback at how gentle he was speaking to me. I expected some angry insults.

Moving on to my big mistake.

I ended up texting the OW yesterday morning. I don't know why. I've been standing tall for weeks now, but yesterday I reached a breaking point. I couldn't stop the tears and I guess I just misdirected my anger.

I let her know just how much she has destroyed my family, how my kids are suffering, how my unborn baby will never have the chance to know her father, how WH's family thinks she is an immoral woman and want absolutely nothing to do with her. How I would make sure she never got a job using her degree (marriage/family counseling), etc.

I know I shouldn't have sent it. I should have went on as if she isn't a factor in my life. I acknowledge my mistake and won't make the same one again. I know that she owes me no loyalty and I should be angrier at WH than her. It's just that my anger with him is mixed in with my love for him, so it's more grief directed towards him as opposed to sheer anger (that I feel for her). I also understand that she knows full well what she was doing, and she doesn't care, so my text to her was pointless.

Anyways- she forwarded it to WH and he got angry. He called me and went off on me. How I'm trying to ruin this for him and do I really expect him to come crawling back to me even if I succeed in ruining their relationship? How he didn't leave me for her (ha-ha).. he was going to leave anyways, blah, blah. I ended up hanging up on him (mature, I know).

And, because I'm a glutton for punishment and apparently enjoy making my own life even harder, I allowed him to come over to see the kids last night after he got off of work. We got along and played together with the kids until it was time for him to leave. He tried to bring up the conversation regarding OW and asking me to direct all of my anger towards him, not her. I said that they both destroyed my life so why should I have any compassion for her? He said that she worked her @-- off for 6 years in school to get her degree and that it was childish of me to try to ruin her career. I simply replied that I owed her no favors. Then he threatened me financially. That if I didn't leave her alone, that if I didn't back off of my "mission to ruin her life", that he would "only give me the 30% that he would legally owe me financially" (as opposed to paying 100% of the bills as he has been since he left in January).

He knows that's my weak point. I'm currently 37 weeks pregnant, about to give birth at any time. He knows there is no way I can get a job any time soon, and that even when I do, I won't be worth much. He knows it will be a struggle for me to pay for everything on my own, even with his 30%. Basically he is trying to manipulate me. He told me that I can let this go and he will continue to support me fully (yeah, right.. until OW demands more $ from him) or I can "be childish" and he'll just give me what he legally owes.

I know that he cannot do that until the divorce is finalized, but it still scares me.

I feel like I royally messed up yesterday and now I don't know what to do. Obviously I'm going back into Plan B, but I feel like that's not enough.

Oh, I meant to add- I figured out her place of work. I reported to HR over a week ago, did a follow up earlier this week and was merely told that since she was not currently using her degree in their place of employment, nor was the "other man" an employee, there was nothing they could or would do.

I feel like a full exposure strengthened their affair if anything. frown


Change all your numbers and details or your Plan B won't be taken seriously.

I don't see anything you've said or done as being wrong but they WANT you in the drama. They have nothing to talk about or bond over without you.


More importantly your focus should be on you and the bambino. I don't see it being a problem that he has one last family experience at home - but he really is overdue for the reality check that he has now lost all of that.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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