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I have been married for 23 years to a woman who I truly love. When I get stressed I tend to withdraw, which tends to make her withdraw, and if it lasts long enough of course she doesn't feel that "connection" anymore and begins to question our relationship. I don't feel connected either, but in me it provokes a response of giving her hyper-attention (which in her detached state makes her feel smothered and uncomfortable). She has recently told me that she just loves me "as a friend" and can't figure out why or how it happened. I told her she is not only my friend but my best friend. Her companionship and friendship is worth as much to me as her more wifely attributes, but I'm not so certain it is reciprocated. She hasn't asked to separate or so much as talked about "steps" but at the same time she hasn't given me reason to believe she is willing to work on our marriage again. This cycle has happened more than once in the 23 years and brought us to the brink a few times already. I am a very sensitive person, sometimes overly so, and I tend to internalize and run scenarios in my head when I am worried about my marriage. This behavior doesn't help me or my marriage but I find it hard to cull. What I really need is to know she is committed to our marriage, but she is not forthcoming with that. I am currently in a bit of a limbo state and stressed out. I cannot (nor would I want to) force my wife to try as I want to. I only want her to stay with me because she really wants to, not because of guilt or apathy or anything else. We obviously have old issues that have not been properly dealt with when we decided to move forward last time. My wife has a tendency to put off or deflect instead of meeting things head on. I am the type of person who always rips off the band-aid. I want to achieve resolution but I do understand that I can't do that at the expense of my wife's well-being. I am left praying and hoping that she will give us another chance. I cannot do it on my own.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/18/15 01:42 PM.
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I have been married for 23 years to a woman who I truly love. When I get stressed I tend to withdraw, which tends to make her withdraw, and if it lasts long enough of course she doesn't feel that "connection" anymore and begins to question our relationship. I don't feel connected either, but in me it provokes a response of giving her hyper-attention (which in her detached state makes her feel smothered and uncomfortable). She has recently told me that she just loves me "as a friend" and can't figure out why or how it happened. I told her she is not only my friend but my best friend. Her companionship and friendship is worth as much to me as her more wifely attributes, but I'm not so certain it is reciprocated. She hasn't asked to separate or so much as talked about "steps" but at the same time she hasn't given me reason to believe she is willing to work on our marriage again. This cycle has happened more than once in the 23 years and brought us to the brink a few times already. I am a very sensitive person, sometimes overly so, and I tend to internalize and run scenarios in my head when I am worried about my marriage. This behavior doesn't help me or my marriage but I find it hard to cull. What I really need is to know she is committed to our marriage, but she is not forthcoming with that. I am currently in a bit of a limbo state and stressed out. I cannot (nor would I want to) force my wife to try as I want to. I only want her to stay with me because she really wants to, not because of guilt or apathy or anything else. We obviously have old issues that have not been properly dealt with when we decided to move forward last time. My wife has a tendency to put off or deflect instead of meeting things head on. I am the type of person who always rips off the band-aid. I want to achieve resolution but I do understand that I can't do that at the expense of my wife's well-being. I am left praying and hoping that she will give us another chance. I cannot do it on my own. Well you have come to the right place. These guys and gals here will take good care of you, if you will listen to them. It sounds to me, that at the very least your wife is having an Emotional Affair(EA), because someone else is meeting her emotional needs. Does she work? Do you have access to her phone and email? I would suggest getting familiar with the material on this website, and then with the help of the veterans on this sight, you can build a marriage that will be what both you and your wife want. You need to start looking into what your wife is doing behind the scenes of your marriage.(Snooping)� You will get lots of good advice on here on what exactly to do, but I for one would start with her phone. Don�t just look at what is on her phone, but look at your phone bill, and look for numbers that she has been calling or texting a lot.
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I'm a very good digital snoop because of my job. My wife doesn't seem to have a relationship with anyone outside the family. She does lean heavily on her siblings, though. 90% of the calls not to me are to her sister, brother, and mother. Same with texts. She has upped the minutes spent talking with her sister greatly in the last month.
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I'm a very good digital snoop because of my job. My wife doesn't seem to have a relationship with anyone outside the family. She does lean heavily on her siblings, though. 90% of the calls not to me are to her sister, brother, and mother. Same with texts. She has upped the minutes spent talking with her sister greatly in the last month. What about people at work? Is there someone there she could be involved with? Have you looked around for a secret second phone? I would put a voice activated recorder in her car to see what she is saying.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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She is currently unemployed and doing online classes from home. We had what I consider a good talk last night without getting defensive or pointing fingers. I really don't think she is involved with anyone else from how she talked and what she said. I think she is just very sad that things have taken a bad turn again and really contemplating whether or not it is worth it to her to build it up again when history keeps repeating itself. She admits that she is as much to blame as I because of behaviors, but that only makes her more uneasy. I am in it regardless and I told her as much. I will do what it takes, but I can't do it for the both of us. We had a good cry but that's not the end of the matter for sure. She still has to make up her mind about our future together. I ensured her that we can both get back to a wonderful place if we put in the effort and most importantly time together. I also suggested we get some private and couples counseling and she seemed receptive. For all I know she could just be putting me off, but I have to move forward giving her the benefit of the doubt. She seems sincere and I do know her well after 23 years.
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When I get stressed I tend to withdraw, which tends to make her withdraw She has recently told me that she just loves me "as a friend" and can't figure out why or how it happened. Because you withdraw from her. I am a very sensitive person, sometimes overly so, and I tend to internalize and run scenarios in my head when I am worried about my marriage. This behavior doesn't help me or my marriage but I find it hard to cull. I assume you withdraw from her or she likely feels she can't talk to you since you can be overly sensitive. My wife has a tendency to put off or deflect instead of meeting things head on. I am the type of person who always rips off the band-aid. This is a direct contradiction to you saying you withdraw and can be overly sensitive. You labeled your wife a conflict avoider but it seems to me that you are the conflict avoider not her. Welcome to MB
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Do you spend UA time together? Do you date your wife? Are you meeting her ENs?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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She is currently unemployed and doing online classes from home. We had what I consider a good talk last night without getting defensive or pointing fingers. I really don't think she is involved with anyone else from how she talked and what she said. I think she is just very sad that things have taken a bad turn again and really contemplating whether or not it is worth it to her to build it up again when history keeps repeating itself. She admits that she is as much to blame as I because of behaviors, but that only makes her more uneasy. I am in it regardless and I told her as much. I will do what it takes, but I can't do it for the both of us. We had a good cry but that's not the end of the matter for sure. She still has to make up her mind about our future together. I ensured her that we can both get back to a wonderful place if we put in the effort and most importantly time together. I also suggested we get some private and couples counseling and she seemed receptive. For all I know she could just be putting me off, but I have to move forward giving her the benefit of the doubt. She seems sincere and I do know her well after 23 years. Texan, in your first post, you mentioned that when you get stressed, you tend to withdraw. It seems to me that both of you need to work on better meeting each other�s emotional needs. Start familiarizing yourself with Dr. Harley�s material on this website. Another great resource, is the books His Needs Her Needs, and Lover busters. I think once you start to understand some of the concepts that Dr. Harley teaches, you will begin to see areas that both of you have been lacking in. Learn all you can about how the love bank works, and how you can improve on filling hers. The reason I originally mentioned that you should snoop, is because from what you said originally, it seems as though she has started to check out of the marriage, which usually happens when someone else begins to fill her �Love Bank��.. Has she said anything along the lines of �I love you, but I am not in love with you anymore�? If she is unemployed, and doing online classes, it makes me wonder if she is contacting someone online? You should install a keylogger, so you can see her online activities while you are at work. In the meantime, you need to do everything you can to show her that you can meet her needs, and that you are willing to put in the work to build a better, and more romantic marriage.
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Because you withdraw from her. I assume you withdraw from her or she likely feels she can't talk to you since you can be overly sensitive. Absolutely. I so get that. I used selfish rec time (gaming, tv, activities that didn't include her) to the extreme and it has been an ongoing problem for me over the years. Then I try to overcompensate but by then she is not necessarily open to receiving it. I don't think she trusts me, and I really can't blame her. I have let her down so many times. This is a direct contradiction to you saying you withdraw and can be overly sensitive. You labeled your wife a conflict avoider but it seems to me that you are the conflict avoider not her. TBH I think we are both guilty of it. We both procrastinate serious talks. I usually initiate them though probably much later than I should. I can't take all the blame but I don't disagree with your assessment either.
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Do you spend UA time together? Do you date your wife? Are you meeting her ENs? The short answer is no, obviously. I try to always be affectionate but we don't always get lots of "dating" style time together. We do stuff together but I know it's not the same. I have really let the romance go and right now I can't just bring it back all of a sudden. She even questioned why I was "all of a sudden" being more attentive and affectionate when we talked the other day. I can't really defend myself I've been a tool.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/19/15 10:36 AM.
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Has she said anything along the lines of �I love you, but I am not in love with you anymore�? No. She has said that she feels more friendship with me right now. She said that because of the distance we've created she finds it hard to feel any passion for me and it makes her incredibly lonely. I told her that I was not doing my job as a husband and I hope she will open her heart to allowing me to try. I have to continue to give her the time, love, and affection she needs and hope it sparks something inside her.
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Has she said anything along the lines of �I love you, but I am not in love with you anymore�? No. She has said that she feels more friendship with me right now. She said that because of the distance we've created she finds it hard to feel any passion for me and it makes her incredibly lonely. I told her that I was not doing my job as a husband and I hope she will open her heart to allowing me to try. I have to continue to give her the time, love, and affection she needs and hope it sparks something inside her. It sounds like you are on the right track. I would still advise to look into any potential background disturbance, because if she is in contact with another man, either on the internet, or any other way, then it will be impossible for you to begin to meet her needs. If there is someone else, then her love bank will be closed off to you, and nothing you do can make love deposits, until the other person is out of the picture.
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She has said nothing specific? Would she agree to this program? Four four hour dates out of the house meeting the ENs of affection and conversation in a fun environment would get her love bank back no worries if there is no competition.
You said this has happened before?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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She has said nothing specific? Would she agree to this program? Four four hour dates out of the house meeting the ENs of affection and conversation in a fun environment would get her love bank back no worries if there is no competition.
You said this has happened before? Unfortunately, yes. I have struggled with what amounts to addiction-type behaviors (mostly involving online video gaming) to manage and distract my stressors. I know that I need to get some counseling to get at the root of what drives me to these selfish behaviors. It has been a thorn in the side of our marriage off and on throughout our marriage.
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Maybe just - stop doing it? Get your recreation needs met by your wife?
Sitting around yakking about how you've sidelined her is not going to get the job done and get her back in love with you. Start scheduling dates. Don't do anything without her enthusiastic approval.
I take it all gaming stuff is already out of the house?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I have ceased all gaming activity, yes. I will have to be patient with my wife. She is still mulling this all over in her head and wants some time to process everything. She wants to continue to talk, and perhaps I can integrate that talking in a date environment, but I'll have to just play it by ear for now I suppose.
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Just a question for those in this forum who have successfully done it. Can a marriage go all the way from "friend love" back to a romantically fullfilling one? I am more than willing to put in the time even if everything fails because my marriage and family are everything to me. I am just low on hope right now.
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Some of us have taken our marriages from the level of hate all the way back to romantic. That's what this program is designed to do.
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Some of us have taken our marriages from the level of hate all the way back to romantic. That's what this program is designed to do. Well I can tell this effects my wife still. So it is not apathy. Thanks so much for the encouragement. It will really help down the road if she decides to give us a chance again. I will report when and if anything happens but in the meantime the materials and people here have been inspiring.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/19/15 04:40 PM.
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We have been married for 35 years and our marriage was okay, then awful, then okay, but now, because we both followed MB for the past four years, our marriage is way better than it ever has been! We have a very romantic, passionate, safe marriage now.
And you're in the prime position of drawing your wife back to you. It's much easier for the husband to woo his wife back using MB than it is for a wife to draw her husband back to her.
Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010
Recovered thanks to Marriage Builders
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We have been married for 35 years and our marriage was okay, then awful, then okay, but now, because we both followed MB for the past four years, our marriage is way better than it ever has been! We have a very romantic, passionate, safe marriage now.
And you're in the prime position of drawing your wife back to you. It's much easier for the husband to woo his wife back using MB than it is for a wife to draw her husband back to her. Man it has been a while since I have wooed. I just don't want to come off like a used car salesman pitching our marriage. I see the benefit of it done in the proper way though. How can she ever "love" me the way she feels she should if we don't connect with each other? I really wish I had seen this stuff years ago.
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We have been married for 35 years and our marriage was okay, then awful, then okay, but now, because we both followed MB for the past four years, our marriage is way better than it ever has been! We have a very romantic, passionate, safe marriage now.
And you're in the prime position of drawing your wife back to you. It's much easier for the husband to woo his wife back using MB than it is for a wife to draw her husband back to her. Man it has been a while since I have wooed. I just don't want to come off like a used car salesman pitching our marriage. I see the benefit of it done in the proper way though. How can she ever "love" me the way she feels she should if we don't connect with each other? I really wish I had seen this stuff years ago. Use us as coaches! How have you met your wife's needs today? Are you responding to any complaints?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Use us as coaches!
How have you met your wife's needs today?
Are you responding to any complaints? I am actually eager to make some changes in our relationship and I appreciate the coaching. She is very stand-offish right now. This whole talk and the emotional fallout from it is from 4 days ago. She is still willing to talk most of the time but she is also keeping me at arms length emotionally. It is a very difficult situation because I don't know how I can move forward without her really being on board and she has made no verbal assent to making marital amends together. I'm not pretending that everything is hunky-dory but I am trying to be affectionate (not physically because although she doesn't pull away she just doesn't seem responsive and I don't think bombarding her with unwanted physical affection is a good thing at this point) and responsive. I have been helping her with her homework, cooking meals for the family, helping clean, the usual things to try and show her I am contributing and that I want to provide for her needs. I think she is still relying on her sister for most of her emotional support because of the awkward situation between us. They talk 2 or 3 times a day. As for complaints the biggest one is her feeling that I was just absent even though I was in the house with her. I have quit all gaming. I have to accept that although it's something I like to do it has become a problem more than once and I just can't use it as a crutch because it excludes my family. Her other complaint is of my physical state which isn't what I want either. I have gained about 50 lbs over the last 2 years and it's not attractive. My doctor told me last visit I really need to lose at least 30 ASAP because it has negatively contributed to my overall health. When I feel like crap emotionally I find it hard to eat, but it's one hell of a bad way to lose weight. I will probably start Weight Watchers or some structured plan to lose the weight. I realize that I need this regardless of my marriage, but hey, it can't hurt to look better.
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Try some non physical affection.
Notes, flowers, her favourite treat?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Do you think you would both enjoy going to the gym together?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Do you think you would both enjoy going to the gym together? With her being unemployed 2 gym memberships (well 3 because our son would have to come as well he's only 10) is just not possible. I definitely write her nice txts during the day and have been very encouraging and helpful in her school work. I address her with terms of endearment and try to make my responses loving even when we're having awkward discussions. If she has mentally and emotionally disconnected from me, by circumstance or by choice, how can I change her mind? This is the most frightening aspect of what I am going through.
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I have been helping her with her homework, cooking meals for the family, helping clean, the usual things to try and show her I am contributing and that I want to provide for her needs. You need to make romantic gestures. Doing house chores is not going to bring on romantic feelings of being wanted and wooed. As Indie said buy her flowers or thoughtful gifts you know she would enjoy. Simple notes to let her know you are thinking about her and love her. I would stay away from getting too syrupy. And stop talking to her your relationship vs doing. I am not saying not to talk but don't have endless conversations about the past or how horrible x, y, and z are. Maybe ask her if she would like to go on a weekend getaway...just the two of you. Or offer to go to a comedy club, a play or some activity you think she may enjoy.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Texan, they have gyms where it costs $10/mo and even $5/mo to add on family members...no contracts. These gyms even have free childcare. Why couldn't you leave your son at home for an hr? Are you in a rural area?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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[As for complaints the biggest one is her feeling that I was just absent even though I was in the house with her. I have quit all gaming. I have to accept that although it's something I like to do it has become a problem more than once and I just can't use it as a crutch because it excludes my family. Her other complaint is of my physical state which isn't what I want either. I have gained about 50 lbs over the last 2 years and it's not attractive. My doctor told me last visit I really need to lose at least 30 ASAP because it has negatively contributed to my overall health. When I feel like crap emotionally I find it hard to eat, but it's one hell of a bad way to lose weight. I will probably start Weight Watchers or some structured plan to lose the weight. I realize that I need this regardless of my marriage, but hey, it can't hurt to look better. Texan, I am just catching up on your thread and I agree with the others. I would approach your wife with a PLAN, though. She has no reason to believe anything will change if there is no plan here. Having no plan is a plan to fail. I would get the books, Fall in Love, Stay in Love and the workbook, 5 Steps to Romantic Love. Read the book and sell her on this program. You can turn your marriage around by changing your habits, but you have to have a PLAN to do that. The most impactful, effective thing you can do for your marriage is to start going on 4 - 4 hour dates a week out of the house. That will help you fall in love again and it happens fairly quickly. Dates out of the house are dramatically different from spending time alone at home because you look nice and are more energetic. Dr. Harley recommends sitting down every Sunday afternoon and planning out your week together using this schedule: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forms/FiveSteps_Time_for_Undivided_Attention_Worksheet.pdfIt will take a radical change in your habits to pull your marriage out of this ditch. I think it is good that you are helping around house, but that will do nothing to restore the romance in your marriage. Please read this article and print it out and show to your wife: How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I would also listen to the radio show every day. You will become very educated in this program very quickly. There is a free app you can download on your phone. I listen to it every day on my way home from work. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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For today I am planning to surprise her at home with some lunch. Lets hope all goes well.
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Well I brought my wife lunch as a surprise. She seemed pleased but not overjoyed (I didn't expect her to be). I asked her to think of an activity that she really enjoys, or something that she really wants to do (concert, etc) and basically asked her out on a date. She said she'd think of what to do. It wasn't an energetic YES but hell it wasn't a no either. Hope this is the first in a string of many more developments to come. I've ordered His Needs, Her Needs and will start on it ASAP. Thanks so much again for the inspiration and encouragement.
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If you want a great way to lose weight I highly recommend a low carb/ketogenic diet. You can find everything you need to know online. It would be especially beneficial to you because:
-it doesn't cost anything
-it keeps your blood sugar stable which helps your mood and
-will help you manage stress and resist addictive behaviors
-you can start today
Don't underestimate the power of saying, especially in writing, that you are going to become and be the husband she needs from this day forward. Write about how you know you abandoned her for video games and you will never abandon her again.
Plan a date you think she will like, a specific day, time and activity and present her with your plan using the words "how would you feel about...." Then be positive and enthusiastic even if she doesn't like all or part of your idea.
Don't be mopey no matter how discouraged you feel.
POJA everything!! Say "how would you feel about me..." Before almost everything you plan to do even if you are pretty sure she is fine/doesn't care. 100% eliminating independent behavior is a marvelous way to make deposits with a withdrawn wife.
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Well I brought my wife lunch as a surprise. She seemed pleased but not overjoyed (I didn't expect her to be). I asked her to think of an activity that she really enjoys, or something that she really wants to do (concert, etc) and basically asked her out on a date. She said she'd think of what to do. It wasn't an energetic YES but hell it wasn't a no either. Hope this is the first in a string of many more developments to come. I've ordered His Needs, Her Needs and will start on it ASAP. Thanks so much again for the inspiration and encouragement. What kinds of things did you used to do on dates when you were trying to win her love? Make sure you eliminate ALL your love busters. Even a "small" one can be disastrous. What do you remember that she loved about you? Have you gained weight? Lose it! Although Physical Attractiveness is not in the top five for most women, it is still important. And for those for whom it IS in the top five, looking good is essential. Get a babysitter lined up so you and your wife can get out of the house on dates. The dates can be cheap like a walk in the park and a coffee at the mall. The conversation should be fun and enjoyable, not heavy. Do you like games? Will your wife join you in playing board games? We love games and use it as one of our recreational activities. Keep up the effort with your wife. One day, if you stick to the plan, her love bank threshold will overflow and she'll be in love with you.
Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010
Recovered thanks to Marriage Builders
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My wife is definitely not the "typical woman" in all ways. For one she is actually more visually stimulated than perhaps most other women, so attractiveness is actually in her top 5. She is not a "lights out" sort of woman. In the past she overlooked some of the attractiveness deficit from weight gain simply because I was me. I'm guessing when my actions changed her perceptions of me a threshold was crossed and she no longer found it simple to overlook what she previously had? I have already started on a hybrid WW-points/low-carb diet and lost about 8 of the 40+ pounds I need to lose. Just need to keep it going and also get some workout time to keep my muscle mass up while losing the fat lbs.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/21/15 02:01 PM.
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What kinds of things did you used to do on dates when you were trying to win her love? Make sure you eliminate ALL your love busters. Even a "small" one can be disastrous.
What do you remember that she loved about you? Have you gained weight? Lose it! Although Physical Attractiveness is not in the top five for most women, it is still important. And for those for whom it IS in the top five, looking good is essential.
Get a babysitter lined up so you and your wife can get out of the house on dates. The dates can be cheap like a walk in the park and a coffee at the mall. The conversation should be fun and enjoyable, not heavy.
Do you like games? Will your wife join you in playing board games? We love games and use it as one of our recreational activities.
Keep up the effort with your wife. One day, if you stick to the plan, her love bank threshold will overflow and she'll be in love with you. We used to just sit and listen to music, do artistic sorts of things, visit museums and parks. Lots of things where there were minimal distractions from spending time together. My "Entertainment" preferences are definitely much more digital these days and I need to wean myself from that. Especially for the date or alone time. My wife is Canadian and unfortunately all her family are there and we are here in Texas. My mother loves to watch my 10 year old and does so often, so that is a plus. I have already bought tickets to a concert I know she is really wanting to see, but that is in May. I will have to find at least 2 good date ideas per week until then I'm thinking. Because of my work and her school schedule I really don't see it possible to leave home for 4 hours more than once during the week and 1 day on the weekend. I sat for 3 hours today and helped her with her statistics homework. I know that doesn't count as romance points, though. I play guitar and have thought of learning some of her favorite songs so I can play and sing to her.
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Because of my work and her school schedule I really don't see it possible to leave home for 4 hours more than once during the week and 1 day on the weekend. As long as work and school take priority over UA and your marriage, the program is not going to work for you.
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[Because of my work and her school schedule I really don't see it possible to leave home for 4 hours more than once during the week and 1 day on the weekend. I sat for 3 hours today and helped her with her statistics homework. I know that doesn't count as romance points, though. I play guitar and have thought of learning some of her favorite songs so I can play and sing to her. Then it won't be possible to change your marriage, sorry.  How do you find the time to go to work? School? You seem to find the time to do less important things. The problem is that you won't ever have a marriage if it is not a priority. As long as everything else comes first, this is a hopeless venture. When Dr. Harley was in active private practice, he would REFUSE to counsel any clients who would not commit to AT LEAST 15 hours of UA time per week because his program does not work without it. And thats fine if you refuse to do this step. Just accept that your marriage won't EVER change. EVER.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Our program for recovery only works when it's followed. The 15 hours of undivided attention we recommend is an essential part of the program because it provides the opportunity to meet emotional needs that cannot be met any other way. There are lots of excuses for failing to follow that aspect of our program, but in the end, failure to follow it results in a failed recovery.
If we saw that both of you were recovering well, I'd say that you are one of the very rare exceptions to the need to spend 15 hours a week together. But, since you are not recovering well, we can only conclude that your failure to spend enough time together, and make good use of that time meeting each other's emotional needs, is the culprit. My program of marriage recovery is exactly the same as most weight loss programs. Whenever it's followed, the marriage recovers. I know of no other program of marital recovery that can make that claim. In fact, if you follow the advice of most marriage recovery programs today, your marriage will not recover. That's why a 1995 Consumer's Report survey found marriage counseling to be the least effective form of psychotherapy. Only 16% found the experience to be helpful.
For those who complete my program of marital recovery, 100% find the experience to be more than helpful -- it solves their marital problems. But just like in dieting, the successful outcome depends entirely on motivation. Only those who are not motivated enough to complete the program fail.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Let me put this another way, Texan. Your habit of making your marriage the last priority in your lives is why you are in this bad place. You have clearly not made time for your marriage and you can see the result. Unless you change your lives to make your marriage the FIRST priority, nothing will ever change. Fiddling around the edges will make no difference whatsoever.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Creating a grid and filling inyour hours of activity will help you both figure out where you have time for UA. I believe you have plenty of time. Know why? Because my husband and I each work 80 hours per week and still find at least 15 hours or UA time, usually more like 20-25.But this only happens because we make the #1 priority.
There are 168 hours in a week. Even if you sleep 50-60 hours, that leaves over 100 hours for activities.
Can you exercise together?
Do you have time before work/school that is being wasted?
How many hours per week is the TV on?
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You said you quit all gaming. Did you get rid of your consoles and game paraphernalia?
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In some states, 10 years old is considered old enough to stay home by oneself for short periods of time (a few hours).
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Texan, I would sit down with her and block out the most PRIME hours of the day when you have the most energy. For most people that is between the hours of 5 to 8-9pm, Saturday afternoon and Sunday afternoon. You want to plan your UA time FIRST and then fill in time for less important things like your job, schooling, etc.
Do you have a babysitter for your son?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I would LOVE to be able to give my wife all of my undivided attention in a date/intimate setting but she seems to just put me off, keep me at arms length without coming out and actually saying anything damaging about our future.
I will proceed with trying and try to keep a positive attitude. I will make all the time possible to take her out of the house and have UA (as long as she agrees, of course).
EDIT: She said previously that she would think of something to do, but now is just putting off talking about it.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/22/15 10:27 AM.
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EDIT: She said previously that she would think of something to do, but now is just putting off talking about it. Why not present this subject to her? Tell her the purpose, the goal and show her the worksheet. Tell her this is how romantic love is restored to marriages.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Why not present this subject to her? Tell her the purpose, the goal and show her the worksheet. Tell her this is how romantic love is restored to marriages. I have presented it to her, but haven't unveiled this program. I was waiting until she showed at least some verbal voluntary assent. As long as all I'm getting is "I'll think about it" I seriously don't know what more I can do. I will continue to try. I will continue to be loving, kind, and everything a husband should be. Until she actually makes a firm decision either way (I'm no so sure she hasn't already and just is afraid to tell me?) what else can I do? I want a wife who I love and who loves me. I'm not willing to just sit and let lukewarm relations stagnate anymore. We both deserve better.
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LEAD the way and show her what you've been doing! She may love it.
All she can say is no. You've courted her before, yes?
It involves the risk of her saying no. You smile, say OK, and keep on going like the terminator.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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[
I have presented it to her, but haven't unveiled this program. I would show her the program. She can't buy an idea if she doesn't know what it is. I would sharpen up your selling skills and think about how this program would benefit her. People buy things when they see a personal benefit.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[ I will continue to be loving, kind, and everything a husband should be. Perfect!!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You said you quit all gaming. Did you get rid of your consoles and game paraphernalia? Action, not words. This is my question too. Will you get rid of the objects that detracted you and your time away from your Wife. Give them all away, Now. Someone can post the list of potential date suggestions. Use Them. LTL
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You said you quit all gaming. Did you get rid of your consoles and game paraphernalia? Action, not words. This is my question too. Will you get rid of the objects that detracted you and your time away from your Wife. Give them all away, Now. Texan, are you avoiding this question? Like MelodyLane said, "Unless you change your lives to make your marriage the FIRST priority, nothing will ever change."
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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This morning I joined a gaming addicts group. When I get home today I will uninstall all the games on my system. I may sit my wife and son down and have them watch me do it.
You are completely right that actions, not words, are the only things that have a chance to rebuild the trust I've lost. I'm literally on my knees in the shower daily praying that I get another chance to restore what we once had together. You guys do give me hope that it is not impossible.
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Of course it's not impossible!
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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This morning I joined a gaming addicts group. When I get home today I will uninstall all the games on my system. I may sit my wife and son down and have them watch me do it.
You are completely right that actions, not words, are the only things that have a chance to rebuild the trust I've lost. I'm literally on my knees in the shower daily praying that I get another chance to restore what we once had together. You guys do give me hope that it is not impossible. How long would it take you to re-install them if you want to? If you really are an addict, then you need to do more than this. You need enable Parental Controls, if you have a Mac, so that your wife has to approve every website that you visit, or you need to install spyware on your devices, so that she can see that you are not re-installing the games. Even dumb phones allow you to play games, and they do not allow for the installation of spyware, so it might be better to get rid of any such device.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Also, you need to get rid of any dedicated games consoles.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Get rid of your gaming system. If you have any Xbox Live or similar accounts, Cancel them. If you have any IRL friends that you were gaming with, you need to let them know that gaming was destroying your life and to never ask you to play again.
Getting rid of the gaming console is VERY important. If you can see friends inviting you to play or just the potential game play in front of you, you WILL start again.
If you were thinking to keep the console for TV/Netflix, forget it. You will end up playing. if that is an issue for your family, get a Roku.
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I never really used consoles. It was always PC gaming. I never played with IRL friends, just anonymous "others."
My wife actually said, "I don't think you need to uninstall. You need to play sometimes." I explained that is not how it works out for me. This isn't something I'm doing for her, it's something I need to do for myself. I have lost way too much time to this and I want out of the loop.
I think she got so used to being without me that the idea of being with me again makes her uncomfortable.
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Texan, I'm a gaming widow.
Get rid of the software, unsubscribe from the marketing emails.
And you're probably right, she's not used to you being engaged.
When my H left gaming, he was grouchy and bossy. He started to see all the things the kids and I were doing "wrong". He got bored. This is were you need to be proactive and not lovebust your family. Schedule fun UA. Ask your wife about things you've put off around the house because of the gaming.
Clean up your side of the street. Show your wife, by your actions that you are serious about the marriage.
She probably developed her own independent behaviors. Gently start to incorporate yourself back into your families lives. It took our kids some time to get used to dad being around and available. They resented his authority for awhile. They were mad at him because he hadn't been around and attentive and didn't appreciate him jumping back in. It's a reality of neglecting people.
Last edited by TenaciousOne; 02/24/15 12:29 PM.
Me 47
Him 47
Married 27 years
dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
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Texan, I'm a gaming widow.
Get rid of the software, unsubscribe from the marketing emails.
And you're probably right, she's not used to you being engaged.
When my H left gaming, he was grouchy and bossy. He started to see all the things the kids and I were doing "wrong". He got bored. This is were you need to be proactive and not lovebust your family. Schedule fun UA. Ask your wife about things you've put off around the house because of the gaming.
Clean up your side of the street. Show your wife, by your actions that you are serious about the marriage.
She probably developed her own independent behaviors. Gently start to incorporate yourself back into your families lives. Thanks so much for your post. I am sorry for what you went through. I have actually started taking care of things at the house. Her immediate comment was "You let it sit that way for months, why are you messing with it now?" I can only push forward and try to stay positive. She has expressed that she doesn't like being "pushed" by me. I get it, but it still hurts. I cannot blame her for her feelings, even if they hurt incredibly. I want to encourage and rebuild trust, I don't want her to think I'm trying to steamroll her into something she isn't ready for. This is just all so complicated right now. I'm trying to make a conscious effort not to let my ego do any talking. I know addictions foster selfish behavior and self-centeredness. I am trying to be aware of that before I do or say anything to her at this point.
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She has expressed that she doesn't like being "pushed" by me. . I'd guess you are edging towards a 'Selfish Demand' lovebuster. Now that you need her to engage you are being ever so slightly pushy about it. A selfish demand is anything that carries a threat of punishment. That could even include a moodiness from you when you aren't getting anywhere. Just work on your delivery. Offer dates, offer this plan. Dont look like someone shot your puppy if she says no. You are offering this, like the treat it is. If she says no, confidence with rejection is sexy. Just my opinion!
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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My wife actually said, "I don't think you need to uninstall. You need to play sometimes." I explained that is not how it works out for me. This isn't something I'm doing for her, it's something I need to do for myself. . Perfect response.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I think she got so used to being without me that the idea of being with me again makes her uncomfortable. That's very good insight, and it's the problem almost every husband faces when they come to this board. You'll need to become the most enjoyable part of her life. That will take some work on your part, and probably some trial and error. Remember that it is your job to do, not hers, so do not get impatient with her for any reluctance that she expresses.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I don't want to derail the discussion, but I noticed something when I was talking to her last night. She seems in some way to be pleased with my discomfort. She knows she is in control right now and that I am miserable. I realized that she definitely has anger towards me though she doesn't express it in the usual way (no yelling, cursing, etc). I had to go in the bedroom and force myself to calm down. This is doubly hard because I have to lose the mechanism (game addiction) that I used to employ to squash my emotions.
She was texting with her sister. I know she needs to talk to somebody and I am both frustrated because she is who I talk to when I get emotional but can't now and jealous because I want to be that person in her life again. Emotionally I am just a mess. Any suggestions on getting this in check so I don't make things worse?
I also know that some of this is from the withdrawal of the games. As silly as it sounds they used to keep me emotionally null and now it seems I'm dealing with all these feelings all at once.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/24/15 02:11 PM.
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I don't want to derail the discussion, but I noticed something when I was talking to her last night. She seems in some way to be pleased with my discomfort. She knows she is in control right now and that I am miserable.. Disrespectful judgement!
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Texan, you might try reading Dr. Harley's article here and trying the technique he suggests with the GSR meter: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_neg.html
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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BW 58
WH 61
married 35 years
2 adult children
2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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I don't want to derail the discussion, but I noticed something when I was talking to her last night. She seems in some way to be pleased with my discomfort. She knows she is in control right now and that I am miserable.. Disrespectful judgement! All of that falls in the category of depicting yourself as reading your wife's mind, or psychoanalyzing her, and indiegirl is right that it is a disrespectful judgment. This line of thinking is going to be very counterproductive for you, and you need to terminate it.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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How long would it take you to re-install them if you want to?
If you really are an addict, then you need to do more than this. You need enable Parental Controls, if you have a Mac, so that your wife has to approve every website that you visit, or you need to install spyware on your devices, so that she can see that you are not re-installing the games.
Even dumb phones allow you to play games, and they do not allow for the installation of spyware, so it might be better to get rid of any such device. This point seems to have been bypassed by all the responses that focused on unsubscribing, and so on. This is not a minor issue. Anything that you have unsubscribed from can be re-engaged within minutes online. If I have learned anything about addiction from this forum, it is that extraordinary measures need to be taken to separate the addict from the source of his addiction. Voluntarily unsubscribing from something that is easily available to you means nothing at all. It can be taken up again in an instant.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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All of that falls in the category of depicting yourself as reading your wife's mind, or psychoanalyzing her, and indiegirl is right that it is a disrespectful judgment. This line of thinking is going to be very counterproductive for you, and you need to terminate it. I know I do. All these emotions are making me a bit unhinged. Better to sit miserable and quiet than create more strife, I agree. Believe me the thoughts are unwelcome in my head and now I realize it's just hurt and ego talking. As for the other thing about the games, my wife has no interest in getting involved in my recovery. She is not going to get involved even if I wanted her to. This has to be for me and me alone. I need to deal with the thoughts and feelings that brought me to the addiction, and keep in the front of my mind what it has cost me. (I don't mean beat myself up over it, but rather be conscious of the threat)
Last edited by Texan44; 02/24/15 04:32 PM.
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I know I do. All these emotions are making me a bit unhinged. Better to sit miserable and quiet than create more strife, I agree. Believe me the thoughts are unwelcome in my head and now I realize it's just hurt and ego talking. Are you on ADs?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Another thing I wanted to point out is that even if you wife IS enjoying the fact you're waking up a bit - that's exactly what youre after.
Few women fall in love unless they feel they have some power and influence over the man courting them. That comes PRE love.
You want her to get used to that. To feeling secure in your attentions.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Earlier in my life I was on Prozac for about 5 years and getting therapy for what the doc termed mild OCD tendencies. It really helped and generally speaking I am emotionally even and healthy. When severe stress hits things tend to unhinge a bit, but I can fall back on what I've learned and it helps. Some days are just better than others, as is life.
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Another thing I wanted to point out is that even if you wife IS enjoying the fact you're waking up a bit - that's exactly what youre after.
Few women fall in love unless they feel they have some power and influence over the man courting them. That comes PRE love.
You want her to get used to that. To feeling secure in your attentions. That's the source of lots of my confusion. Now that I am actually making some positive personal progress she is pulling away. I don't want to force anything and I realize it has to be mutual or it won't work. Living together and sleeping in the same bed is just hard given the circumstances. I take HUGE comfort in physical contact and it is just off the board completely for the immediate future. I also greatly enjoy giving physical love and having to hold it back is perhaps even more painful than not getting it. Last night she got up in the middle of the night and then went to sleep in my son's bed and fell back asleep cuddling with him. When I woke him up for school I asked her if I was snoring and she said no, she just came in to check on him and lay down and went to sleep. This is not necessarily a bad thing but it seems more down the road to full disconnect than towards the road to reconnection. I guess she's having a hard time sleeping with me as well.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/25/15 09:49 AM.
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My wife told me today that in April she'll be flying to Calgary to visit her sister and help her move into her new place. I had a talk with her and asked her if she would be willing to read some books with me. She is hyper defensive right now and I tried to explain that I am not pushing, merely suggesting. She seems very unwilling to commit to even the simplest of things (reading a book?!?) I am sorely discouraged right now. We won't fall in romantic love again if she is completely unwilling to try. She says she needs some time away. More than at any time in our marriage I really feel I'm losing her completely.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/25/15 10:51 AM.
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My wife told me today that in April she'll be flying to Calgary to visit her sister and help her move into her new place. I had a talk with her and asked her if she would be willing to read some books with me. She is hyper defensive right now and I tried to explain that I am not pushing, merely suggesting. She seems very unwilling to commit to even the simplest of things (reading a book?!?) I am sorely discouraged right now. We won't fall in romantic love again if she is completely unwilling to try. She says she needs some time away. More than at any time in our marriage I really feel I'm losing her completely. Nooooo. Books aren't fun. What's fun? What would be appealing to her? You still sound pretty entitled, like you expect her to do some of the work. Ain't gonna happen. Have you tried pitching this plan by considering what's in it for her? Are you scared of her saying no or something? Let me break it down for you. A man who can hear the word 'no' and keeps on smiling and being pleasant is the sexiest thing on earth. The more you can do that, the less pressured she will feel around you.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Nooooo. Books aren't fun. What's fun? What would be appealing to her?
You still sound pretty entitled, like you expect her to do some of the work. Ain't gonna happen.
Have you tried pitching this plan by considering what's in it for her?
Are you scared of her saying no or something?
Let me break it down for you. A man who can hear the word 'no' and keeps on smiling and being pleasant is the sexiest thing on earth.
The more you can do that, the less pressured she will feel around you. Right now the most appealing thing to her, apparently, is getting away from me for a while. I don't know if this is a good thing (cool down, perspective) or a bad thing (forget about problems and just run away). I don't expect her to do anything at all. I accept that I cannot "make" her want to try. From all I'm reading I can't make this marriage better alone, can I? I have invited her to lunch, have asked if we can go out one night and just have fun. She doesn't even give me a "no" but a "I'll think about it." That leaves the ball well in her court and me standing around useless. I use words to help deal with what I'm going through but in this case it isn't necessarily helpful for her. My fear of losing her is clouding my perspective. Maybe I need to back off until I can get that under control? There are a number of things I need to work on about myself. Perhaps in the time I'm waiting for a "maybe" to turn to a yes or no I can just focus on them.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/25/15 12:06 PM.
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Hmmm. Fear is a really awful stumbling block.
Fact is, Even if she does run away into a complete separation, (which I don't think she is even close to) you'll still have access to her and to her love bank.
The love bank is unconscious. It doesn't require any kind of decision on her part. That's why lots of people (pretty much all people!) fall in love unintentionally. Nobody ever went on a first date and decided to fall in love over the next couple of weeks - but when you understand the love bank that's exactly what you can control!
I've seen far direr situations than yours turned around, the guy has been a dreadful husband and she's in love with another guy - yours is a dead cert.
The only thing that concerns me is that the lovebank responds to fun and pleasant situations. I'm a little concerned that you might be showing your sad/stressed face when she doesn't play ball.
The offers you are making are very much food for thought and will create ripple effects.
Have you presented this plan to her? You're doing all this legwork - get the credit at least.
Last edited by indiegirl; 02/25/15 12:13 PM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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What fun activities have you offered? Bowling, trampoline parks, museums, movie with dinner after, concerts, monopoly, pool, raqetball, browsing a home improvement store, planning a trip for 2, going on a trip for 2, sporting events, dancing (+/- lessons), indoor tennis, play and dinner after? What would be fun?
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Texan, pay attention to this stuff. These are the mistakes I made that kept us from making any progress for years. You still sound pretty entitled, like you expect her to do some of the work. Ain't gonna happen. The only thing that concerns me is that the lovebank responds to fun and pleasant situations. I'm a little concerned that you might be showing your sad/stressed face when she doesn't play ball.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I don't know if this is a good thing (cool down, perspective) or a bad thing (forget about problems and just run away). STOP BEING JUDGMENTAL OF HER NATURAL HUMAN NEED TO ESCAPE FROM PROBLEMS. The whole plan here is for you to learn to facilitate her need to get away from problems for 15+ hours each week. Dr. Harley encourages this. It's a GOOD thing. Every time you mention it, you sound like you feel like something is WRONG with her if she feels that way. KNOCK IT OFF. Learn to eliminate everything you do in life that is a problem for her so she will not want to escape from you any more.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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OK. Now my wife texts me she started back up the gym membership we closed when she lost her job. Apparently she had put her side on "hold" for $10/month and only canceled mine.
Me: "I should really start exercising regularly again as well. Maybe we can go together? Would be a good stress reliever."
Her: "It is good for many things."
Me: "Are they having any deals?"
Her: "No."
Her: "Maybe you can just use the equipment we have at home."
She is using some of her student loan money to subsidize. But this is what I am experiencing right now. I'm getting cut off at the knees at anything I try which involves us doing things out of the house together. I am not going to mope or gripe about it to her, but it is (once again) discouraging. I also don't even know how to interpret the "it is good for many things" reply?
If I make an issue of the money, I'm a jerk. I don't have $110/mo to blow on a membership being the only money earner.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/25/15 03:36 PM.
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STOP BEING JUDGMENTAL OF HER NATURAL HUMAN NEED TO ESCAPE FROM PROBLEMS. The whole plan here is for you to learn to facilitate her need to get away from problems for 15+ hours each week. Dr. Harley encourages this. It's a GOOD thing. Every time you mention it, you sound like you feel like something is WRONG with her if she feels that way. KNOCK IT OFF.
Learn to eliminate everything you do in life that is a problem for her so she will not want to escape from you any more. I am really not meaning to judge her. Believe me as a video game addict I know all about the need to escape from you problems, and I don't blame her for her feelings or urges. I have quit the video games, for good this time. I am too old and have lost too much for something so asinine. I have started picking up things that need to be done around the house ( mostly to keep myself busy ) instead. I cannot get her out of the house with me at this point so is there a plan b?
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What does your wife like? You romanced this woman before. WHat worked? Have you thought about showing nonphysical affection (flowers, love note, etc.)?
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Can it possibly be? I was desperately looking for something to do with her this weekend and noticed a concert called "Winter Jam."
I mentioned the concert and at first it was "But parking is too overpriced" and "I prefer more intimate venues" but when I mentioned one artist I know she actually likes, she was "Well I do like her, true." I haven't got a firm "Yes" yet but I am on it like a duck on a june bug. I will not be forceful, I will be patient, but I will try my hardest to make this night happen for us. If it doesn't happen I will not let it sink my face or attitude.
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Texan44- I went to WinterJam a few weeks ago. I LOVED it. It was a great experience. Go!! You won't regret it! Skillet puts on an amazing show.
BW-27
FWH-31
DS-6
Married several years
D-Day- 11/22/13
Plan A+Exposure
NC+Beginning of Recovery-04/2014
In Recovery and happier and more in love than ever
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STOP BEING JUDGMENTAL OF HER NATURAL HUMAN NEED TO ESCAPE FROM PROBLEMS. The whole plan here is for you to learn to facilitate her need to get away from problems for 15+ hours each week. Dr. Harley encourages this. It's a GOOD thing. Every time you mention it, you sound like you feel like something is WRONG with her if she feels that way. KNOCK IT OFF.
Learn to eliminate everything you do in life that is a problem for her so she will not want to escape from you any more. I am really not meaning to judge her. That doesn't matter, though. Learn to recognize when something is judgmental and filter that kind of talk out of your conversation, even with us. Judgmental statements are judgmental even when there are 100% good intentions behind them.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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OK. Now my wife texts me she started back up the gym membership we closed when she lost her job. Apparently she had put her side on "hold" for $10/month and only canceled mine.
Me: "I should really start exercising regularly again as well. Maybe we can go together? Would be a good stress reliever."
Her: "It is good for many things."
Me: "Are they having any deals?"
Her: "No."
Her: "Maybe you can just use the equipment we have at home." Tell her: "But I want us to work out together."
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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$110/mo for a gym membership?? Where are you going?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Can it possibly be? I was desperately looking for something to do with her this weekend and noticed a concert called "Winter Jam."
I mentioned the concert and at first it was "But parking is too overpriced" and "I prefer more intimate venues" but when I mentioned one artist I know she actually likes, she was "Well I do like her, true." I haven't got a firm "Yes" yet but I am on it like a duck on a june bug. I will not be forceful, I will be patient, but I will try my hardest to make this night happen for us. If it doesn't happen I will not let it sink my face or attitude. Awesome. STOP BEING JUDGMENTAL OF HER NATURAL HUMAN NEED TO ESCAPE FROM PROBLEMS. The whole plan here is for you to learn to facilitate her need to get away from problems for 15+ hours each week. Dr. Harley encourages this. It's a GOOD thing. Every time you mention it, you sound like you feel like something is WRONG with her if she feels that way. KNOCK IT OFF.
Learn to eliminate everything you do in life that is a problem for her so she will not want to escape from you any more. I am really not meaning to judge her. That doesn't matter, though. Learn to recognize when something is judgmental and filter that kind of talk out of your conversation, even with us. Judgmental statements are judgmental even when there are 100% good intentions behind them. This is the hardest lovebuster to learn about. Everything else you can learn through reading. DJs take experience because even true and well intentioned statements can trip you. Listen to the radio show every day and try and read other threads. New MB101 threads are usually riddled with DJs - yours isn't, but even just one, just the ghost of one, will undo days of needs meeting.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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STOP BEING JUDGMENTAL OF HER NATURAL HUMAN NEED TO ESCAPE FROM PROBLEMS. The whole plan here is for you to learn to facilitate her need to get away from problems for 15+ hours each week. Dr. Harley encourages this. It's a GOOD thing. Every time you mention it, you sound like you feel like something is WRONG with her if she feels that way. KNOCK IT OFF.
Learn to eliminate everything you do in life that is a problem for her so she will not want to escape from you any more. I am really not meaning to judge her. Believe me as a video game addict I know all about the need to escape from you problems, and I don't blame her for her feelings or urges. I have quit the video games, for good this time. I am too old and have lost too much for something so asinine. I have started picking up things that need to be done around the house ( mostly to keep myself busy ) instead. I cannot get her out of the house with me at this point so is there a plan b? You're Plan Aing her. Making her feel safe and unpressurized - being the most pleasant person in her world. She will bite eventually.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Tell her: "But I want us to work out together." I did say "I thought it would be good if we could work out together" but she just shot it down. "Too expensive." (which is actually true) The gym is Lifetime Fitness and it is upscale for sure. Hey the place is awesome but they make you pay out the nose for it. Our older son came over for dinner last night and she was pushing the idea that I get a membership with him at a cheaper local place. I have no problem with the idea of working out with my son, that would be awesome. It's just not necessarily going to help my marriage. Although I think she's sick of my lip service on getting into shape and wants me to actually do something about my weight and overall appearance.
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You are correct in thinking that working out with your son won't help your marriage. You should be together while working out. Working out together releases all kinds of good hormones and deposits love units.
It's a big mistake for her to be working out in a gym without you. Can you afford to go for a couple of months with your wife? Can you make that happen?
A very important part of losing weight is changing the way you eat and making sure you eat healthy foods. Have you started on a healthy food plan that will work for life?
Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010
Recovered thanks to Marriage Builders
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Call the gym yourself to inquire about pricing. A second person (even third person, etc.) should not be paying the same rate as the first person. I live in TX too and am familiar with this gym.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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You could take long walks every day and make sure to invite her along here and there until she bites.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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You are correct in thinking that working out with your son won't help your marriage. You should be together while working out. Working out together releases all kinds of good hormones and deposits love units.
It's a big mistake for her to be working out in a gym without you. Can you afford to go for a couple of months with your wife? Can you make that happen?
A very important part of losing weight is changing the way you eat and making sure you eat healthy foods. Have you started on a healthy food plan that will work for life? Well for the time being she says she will be working out during the day when I'm at work. This means even if I spend the money likely she won't want to go back with me after she has already done her workout. At any rate, asked her if she would mind to ask about a rate for me on her acct. Told her I used to really enjoy working out with her and thought it would be good to start again. We'll see what she says. EDIT: She texted back "They will make you pay to join. I am motivated on my own." and I texted back "Just thought it could be something we could do together. I understand about the time and money."
Last edited by Texan44; 02/26/15 10:53 AM.
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I also talked to her again about the Winter Jam concert idea and at first she completely shot it down. "I don't like that venue" "I prefer a smaller more intimate atmosphere so I can appreciate the music" so no. But then she says "I really think <our son> would like to go to something like that" So I say "You want to go but take <our son>?" Seems like she is interested in that. Not exactly what I had in mind but I would like to get out, I need some time out having fun too.
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Call the gym yourself to inquire about pricing. A second person (even third person, etc.) should not be paying the same rate as the first person. I live in TX too and am familiar with this gym. Unfortunately I know this particular gym and before we were both paying the same rate (plus a reduced rate for our younger son so he could use the kids facilities while we worked out). It is moot point now, though. She has her mind made up about when she is going to work out (daytime) and that is pretty much that. If I want to put back on some muscle mass and get in better shape I am going to have to do it on my own.
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I wouldn't have asked her for permission if you could call...you just call and find out.
How long would she spend at the gym when she was going before? Did you work out together back then? How long has it been since she went?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I also talked to her again about the Winter Jam concert idea and at first she completely shot it down. "I don't like that venue" "I prefer a smaller more intimate atmosphere so I can appreciate the music" so no. But then she says "I really think <our son> would like to go to something like that" So I say "You want to go but take <our son>?" Seems like she is interested in that. Not exactly what I had in mind but I would like to get out, I need some time out having fun too. Have you pitched this program to her? She may feel there's no point letting you in just to get hurt again, if you have no plan. If she shoots you down, take a graceful bow and we'll coach you on drive by needs meeting in the house.
Last edited by indiegirl; 02/26/15 11:12 AM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Texan, I read your thread again.
Have you presented the plan? "Hey, honey I found this website, these marriage principles. It lays out a real good plan for helping me be the husband I think you want." That kind of thing.
When was the last time you gamed? Just seeing my husband at a computer triggers negative feelings in me.
Sounds like your lovebank in her is closed. That's why she's avoiding your attempts at deposits. She's questioning your motives,your sincerity, she doesn't know what you're up to. Present the plan. Then she'll know your motivation.
Start the plan.
First NO lovebusters. Make requests, not demands. Figure out the right eating plan for you. Invite her to join you in recreation (walking, tossing the baseball, frisbee whatever...)
My H is frustrated with our progress too. But, we didn't implement every detail of the plan. We tried to piece-meal it. Doesn't work.
Dr Harley answered our email Tuesday on the show.
Schedule UA, meet each other's needs, and workout together.
Last edited by TenaciousOne; 02/26/15 11:24 AM.
Me 47
Him 47
Married 27 years
dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
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You are correct in thinking that working out with your son won't help your marriage. You should be together while working out. Working out together releases all kinds of good hormones and deposits love units.
It's a big mistake for her to be working out in a gym without you. Can you afford to go for a couple of months with your wife? Can you make that happen?
A very important part of losing weight is changing the way you eat and making sure you eat healthy foods. Have you started on a healthy food plan that will work for life? Well for the time being she says she will be working out during the day when I'm at work. This means even if I spend the money likely she won't want to go back with me after she has already done her workout. At any rate, asked her if she would mind to ask about a rate for me on her acct. Told her I used to really enjoy working out with her and thought it would be good to start again. We'll see what she says. EDIT: She texted back "They will make you pay to join. I am motivated on my own." and I texted back "Just thought it could be something we could do together. I understand about the time and money." Texan44, going back to your very first post on this thread, in which you said your wife says she loves you like a friend and doesn't know how that happened, I strongly suggest you find out what's happening while she's at the gym. She is checked out, wants little to do with you, and isn't apparently interested in making the marriage better. Plus she has plenty of freedom to have an independent life from you. You said you are snooping through digital channels, but what about finding out what's going on at the gym? I would include that and make it a priority. Get a friend or hire a PI to find out. If I was in your wife's shoes - attractive and married to someone who was overweight and excluding me from his life through video games and the life, that's exactly where I would go. I would put on cute workout clothes and work out, then I'd make sure to discourage my H from joining me there. There are lots of good-looking energetic men at gyms.
Married 1980
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Recovered thanks to Marriage Builders
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I wouldn't have asked her for permission if you could call...you just call and find out.
How long would she spend at the gym when she was going before? Did you work out together back then? How long has it been since she went? Maybe I typed that wrong. I wasn't asking permission I was asking if she was interested. We usually spent about an hour working out. We usually went together, yes. It has been almost a year since we were working out regularly. We live in a condo, and we have a nice pool here, but she would insist we use the club pool in past just because of the cost. Other than working out that was about the extent of it.
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Texan, I read your thread again.
Have you presented the plan? "Hey, honey I found this website, these marriage principles. It lays out a real good plan for helping me be the husband I think you want." That kind of thing.
When was the last time you gamed? Just seeing my husband at a computer triggers negative feelings in me.
Sounds like your lovebank in her is closed. That's why she's avoiding your attempts at deposits. She's questioning your motives,your sincerity, she doesn't know what you're up to. Present the plan. Then she'll know your motivation.
Start the plan.
First NO lovebusters. Make requests, not demands. Figure out the right eating plan for you. Invite her to join you in recreation (walking, tossing the baseball, frisbee whatever...)
My H is frustrated with our progress too. But, we didn't implement every detail of the plan. We tried to piece-meal it. Doesn't work.
Dr Harley answered our email Tuesday on the show.
Schedule UA, meet each other's needs, and workout together. I have presented the plan. I am not 100% sure she trusts my motivation. Because of past issues and problems I am sure she knows I can make changes for the better, but I am unsure if she believes I can maintain. I know she hasn't felt "that feeling" for me in a very long time but stayed and tried to keep it together. The knowledge of that fact is one of the reasons I withdrew. I wish to God I'd found this site years ago. I know her. She is asking herself how many times she wants to go through this again? She is very reluctant to even discuss programs or therapy.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/26/15 12:18 PM.
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Texan, I am new here too but I decided to start reading a few threads other than my own. My wife too is completely shut out but we had a break through last night so I am in good spirits that this program works.
On the topic of working out:
My wife and I need to work out. She is not at a point where she would be willing to go with me or at all. I don't push her. But I looked at myself and asked, "would this be someone you would date or marry?" When I found that answer, I decided to start going without her. She is now starting to get the want, just by viewing the example. I know your situation is a bit different in that she is already going, but you need to start looking inside yourself and ask yourself, "Do I like who I have become? If I was in my wife's shoes, would I want this?" This was my motivation. Besides I am already seeing results and I actually like the guy staring back at me in the mirror. Point I am making, this program is about change. You are not going to be able to change your wife without changing yourself first.
On the topic of going out:
We men want nothing more than to satisfy our wives and come up with solutions to fix problems. This is one of the hardest things I have ever done, but sometimes you need to step back, shut up, and listen. Start asking questions about everything. Do you want to go out Saturday night? Is there anything you would like to do? I found <this activity>, would you like to go? No? Could you offer a suggestion or alternative?
She has already given you a hint. Smaller venue. Start looking in that direction. She brings up your son a lot. Start making plans with just you and him and invite her (keep her schedule in mind). Don't get frustrated when she doesn't want to go. Always stay positive and up beat. Body language speaks louder than words too. Show true interest in your son. This could be one of her ENs.
BH 34 (me)
WS 31 / OM 44
3 children 12/7/angel
Married 13y
D-Day 9/21/2015
Exposed/Separated Plan A
(Almost in recovery)
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Texan44, going back to your very first post on this thread, in which you said your wife says she loves you like a friend and doesn't know how that happened, I strongly suggest you find out what's happening while she's at the gym. She is checked out, wants little to do with you, and isn't apparently interested in making the marriage better. Plus she has plenty of freedom to have an independent life from you.
You said you are snooping through digital channels, but what about finding out what's going on at the gym? I would include that and make it a priority. Get a friend or hire a PI to find out. If I was in your wife's shoes - attractive and married to someone who was overweight and excluding me from his life through video games and the life, that's exactly where I would go. I would put on cute workout clothes and work out, then I'd make sure to discourage my H from joining me there. There are lots of good-looking energetic men at gyms. I know that she is has been frustrated that that although she was "trying" the feelings weren't coming back the way she wanted (whether that means quality or quantity I have no idea). I don't believe that she is fully checked out yet. I really don't know what to think. I don't want to snoop on my wife. She will make decisions, and depending on those decisions things will get better or worse. I am almost certain that she is not involved with anyone else but i can't say she's not thinking about it. Believe me that thought haunts me. All I can do is what I can do. If she sees me jealous, snooping, trying to inject myself in her every move, how will that be a good thing?
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If she sees me jealous, snooping, trying to inject myself in her every move, how will that be a good thing? For marriages that have recovered here, the wife in such a scenario typically blows up and dials up to an 11 to try to make the husband back off, then thanks him later. How could it NOT be a good thing for your wife to find out you want to be integrated into her life? Texan, part of the plan here is to become so integrated into your wife's life that she could NOT have an affair without your knowledge. If you are not doing that, you are not following the Marriage Builders plan, so don't expect success.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I don't want to snoop on my wife Don't expect success if you skip the parts of the plan you don't want to do.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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For marriages that have recovered here, the wife in such a scenario typically blows up and dials up to an 11 to try to make the husband back off, then thanks him later.
How could it NOT be a good thing for your wife to find out you want to be integrated into her life?
Texan, part of the plan here is to become so integrated into your wife's life that she could NOT have an affair without your knowledge. If you are not doing that, you are not following the Marriage Builders plan, so don't expect success. Aside from when I am at work we are always together though. We have been for a very long time. We go almost everywhere together. When she does something out of the ordinary I do ask about it. I am quite aware that unhappy wife + world full of younger, better shape men = danger. The disconnect I'm having is how to get from where I am now to actually able to implement any of the plans I've read (which I really like and know will work!!!). If she has closed the window to the love bank to me, what can I do? I am trying to make positive personal changes for myself, so that I can be a better man, father, husband. Not FOR HER but because I truly believe it should be that way. If she only sees the me she has learned to dislike and distrust, and not the me she married out of love, I am sunk.
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I don't want to snoop on my wife Don't expect success if you skip the parts of the plan you don't want to do. I don't think my wife is having an affair, though. Why should the "dealing with an affair" parts be relevant to my situation? I am not trying to skip anything, sincerely.
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Snooping is part of a protective and caring marriage. So, so many affairs start at the gym - it's like they put something in the water. Its a good preventative step especially since your wife isn't in love with you.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Also just in case I didn't make it clear, she just renewed the gym membership yesterday. She hasn't been going, neither of us have for around a year.
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When was the last time you gamed? Just seeing my husband at a computer triggers negative feelings in me. Would you mind answering this question?
Me 47
Him 47
Married 27 years
dd 21, dd 17, ds 15
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Snooping is part of a protective and caring marriage. So, so many affairs start at the gym - it's like they put something in the water. Its a good preventative step especially since your wife isn't in love with you. I am plenty snoopy, believe me. I look, I listen, I ask. Should I insist that we go to the same gym and work out together? What do I do when she says no? From the way she watches me lately when she thinks I'm not looking I just get the feeling that she is trying to figure me out. Not necessarily "testing" me but not necessarily not, either. She is being so aloof that is is almost impossible for me to get an emotional read.
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When was the last time you gamed? Just seeing my husband at a computer triggers negative feelings in me. Would you mind answering this question? Other than using my computer to help her with her homework, I haven't even been on it at all in a week now. The last time I played on it was on Sunday Feb 15th.
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I don't think my wife is having an affair, though. So? Do you know how long markos didn't think I was having an affair? You can't know unless you are integrated with her life. Why should the "dealing with an affair" parts be relevant to my situation? I am not trying to skip anything, sincerely. Snooping is not "dealing with an affair part" of MB. It's part of becoming integrated into each others lives, even if there has been no affair. Markos has never had an affair. I check up on him all the time, and not because I think he's up to anything. Without permission to check up on each other, a secret second life is sure to develop. And secret second lives are marriage killers.
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Snooping is part of a protective and caring marriage. So, so many affairs start at the gym - it's like they put something in the water. Its a good preventative step especially since your wife isn't in love with you. I am plenty snoopy, believe me. I look, I listen, I ask. Should I insist that we go to the same gym and work out together? What do I do when she says no? From the way she watches me lately when she thinks I'm not looking I just get the feeling that she is trying to figure me out. Not necessarily "testing" me but not necessarily not, either. She is being so aloof that is is almost impossible for me to get an emotional read. Good to know you are snooping. My call is that she is testing you. Bit like a girl with a new boyfriend who has a bad rep.
Last edited by indiegirl; 02/26/15 12:59 PM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I don't want to snoop on my wife. I am plenty snoopy, believe me. Both cannot be true.
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Should I insist that we go to the same gym and work out together? What do I do when she says no? Go with her anyway!
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Have you mentioned a plan that would benefit both her and you yet?
Why don't you buy, His Needs - Her Needs, or Fall In Love - Stay In Love?
Leave it laying around after you read through it and highligh various sections. Print out the free Questionnaires from this site and keep them in the book with your sections filled out.
It may pique her interest.
LTL
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I don't want to snoop on my wife Don't expect success if you skip the parts of the plan you don't want to do. I don't think my wife is having an affair, though. Why should the "dealing with an affair" parts be relevant to my situation? I am not trying to skip anything, sincerely. It turns out that what people to do deal with an affair successfully is ALSO what people do to have a good marriage. So, if you want to turn your marriage around, get after it. Dr. Harley and his wife Joyce follow ALL of the "dealing with an affair" parts of Marriage Builders, and neither one of them has ever had an affair, and they have a great marriage.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I don't want to snoop on my wife. I am plenty snoopy, believe me. Both cannot be true. I am always around. When she is on the phone I know who she is talking to, I check the call logs. I check the outgoing text logs if I think something seems wrong. The distinction I was making was about having someone physically follow her or hiring a PI.
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But you won't always be around if she's at the gym and you are not.
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Should I insist that we go to the same gym and work out together? What do I do when she says no? Go with her anyway! She is planning on going when I am at work. My office is too far from the gym to make leaving, working out, coming back a reality and keep my job. I am also the only one working at the moment. She tried hard to get another job but because she only had a 2 year degree lots of doors were closed, which is why she is in online classes to finish her undergrad.
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Should I insist that we go to the same gym and work out together? What do I do when she says no? Go with her anyway! She is planning on going when I am at work. My office is too far from the gym to make leaving, working out, coming back a reality and keep my job. I am also the only one working at the moment. She tried hard to get another job but because she only had a 2 year degree lots of doors were closed, which is why she is in online classes to finish her undergrad. Marriage > Job Go anyway, at least a time or two. Show up unannounced to surprise her. Cheerfully. 
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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She is planning on going when I am at work. Hence the very wise suggestion to have either a friend follow her or a PI. I know if I were planning such a thing, markos would take off work and randomly show up to see me. He was always annoying that way.
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But you won't always be around if she's at the gym and you are not. I know this. It makes me feel sick inside from even the potential, but I cannot see how to get around it right now. I don't know how. I have sent her another text reiterating my desire to work out together as it used to be something we enjoyed. I told her I do not want to let it pass simply because of money. Will see how she responds. I am not asking for permission, but coordination. I could get a membership right now, but I can't be certain when she'll go or that she'll not intentionally go when she knows I can't be there. I just don't have open options here.
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Even if she's not planning anything, gyms are very dangerous places for married women to go alone. The few times I went without markos, I always had at least one man hit on me.
Your wife is going to get a lot of attention from males that she WILL enjoy.
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Good to know you are snooping.
My call is that she is testing you. Bit like a girl with a new boyfriend who has a bad rep. I sincerely hope that is the case. I can usually read her like a book because we've been together so long but she can also be very cold when she wants to. When she's like that I find it much harder to figure her out.
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But you won't always be around if she's at the gym and you are not. I know this. It makes me feel sick inside from even the potential, but I cannot see how to get around it right now. I don't know how. I have sent her another text reiterating my desire to work out together as it used to be something we enjoyed. I told her I do not want to let it pass simply because of money. Will see how she responds. I am not asking for permission, but coordination. I could get a membership right now, but I can't be certain when she'll go or that she'll not intentionally go when she knows I can't be there. I just don't have open options here. Options have been suggested. You've just put your hands over your ears while you continue to whistle. If your marriage is your priority, you will find a way to keep an eye on her.
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Good to know you are snooping.
My call is that she is testing you. Bit like a girl with a new boyfriend who has a bad rep. I sincerely hope that is the case. I can usually read her like a book because we've been together so long but she can also be very cold when she wants to. When she's like that I find it much harder to figure her out. Hope is not a plan.
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I know if I were planning such a thing, markos would take off work and randomly show up to see me. He was always annoying that way. 
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I sent her another message. I asked if she would be willing to work out at night with me instead, if I found a way to make the money work. She said, "maybe." Will see what happens.
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But you won't always be around if she's at the gym and you are not. I know this. It makes me feel sick inside from even the potential, but I cannot see how to get around it right now. I don't know how. I have sent her another text reiterating my desire to work out together as it used to be something we enjoyed. I told her I do not want to let it pass simply because of money. Will see how she responds. I am not asking for permission, but coordination. I could get a membership right now, but I can't be certain when she'll go or that she'll not intentionally go when she knows I can't be there. I just don't have open options here. Once you find out what the price is you can better approach her with that info vs not knowing how much it will cost and speculating. If your son is interested in the gym, he could maybe go with his mom when you can't. You could also go as a family; do they have a family rate? For those who have not seen a Lifetime Fitness, they are MASSIVE...rock climbing walls, spa services, a salon, cafe, etc. Even if your wife went during the day you could still try to persuade her to go a second time with you...she could go relax in the sauna. Or you can rock climb together. My point is you sell it to her so that it would be difficult for her to say no to you going together. Plus you have the added benefit of showing your face around the club and letting men/staff know that yes that's MY WIFE just by your presence. Look for where you can cut costs to afford this and make it happen. As for the concert...why not all three of you go? Since she is already trying to shoot it down as a date, sell it as family time. At least she will be there. Then you can look for a more intimate event for just the two of you.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I am more than willing to pay whatever at this point thanks raven. I am going to take the initiative and make it happen one way or another.
Even if I have to take money out of retirement account to do it.
I think we are all on board for Saturday concert. We will make it a family outing and have a great time. I know my wife likes to see me doing "dad things" and of course I absolutely love spending time with my boys.
EDIT: My older son definitely doesn't want to spend the money to go to Lifetime. His roommate goes to another much cheaper gym and he'll likely join there.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/26/15 02:20 PM.
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My point is you sell it to her so that it would be difficult for her to say no to you going together. Plus you have the added benefit of showing your face around the club and letting men/staff know that yes that's MY WIFE just by your presence. Excellent idea. You could also show up to haggle a deal with the staff. 'My wife loves it here but we don't know whether it's affordable as a couple?'
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I am completely devastated. I hacked my wife's iMessage and routed it to my iPad and she has indeed been having a long distance EA. Some guy she met on a plane last time she went to visit her mom. 10 years younger. Nothing physical has happened because he is 2000 miles away. I told her she didn't have to leave the house but if she stayed she had to break it off right now in front of me, delete his info, and block the number from the phone. She complied but then told me she was going to shut down so we will both be miserable and depressed. She is downstairs crying. I don't even know what to feel. I still want to save our marriage but I don't think she even cares at this point. I feel empty. She says she doesn't think she is meant to be married. Everything I saw as hope was an absolute lie to keep me in the dark on her part.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/27/15 02:01 AM.
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I'm so sorry, Texan, I know how that feels
You need to get an exposure plan together. Who is this weasel?
It's actually good news. You've diagnosed the real problem and can bust it up. You had no chance to make lovebank deposits during an EA. The weeping and wailing right now is just the fog - which exposure takes care of.
Last edited by indiegirl; 02/27/15 02:39 AM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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She says she doesn't think she is meant to be married. . You will hear her say a lot of dumb stuff.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I am completely devastated. I hacked my wife's iMessage and routed it to my iPad and she has indeed been having a long distance EA. Some guy she met on a plane last time she went to visit her mom. 10 years younger. Nothing physical has happened because he is 2000 miles away. I told her she didn't have to leave the house but if she stayed she had to break it off right now in front of me, delete his info, and block the number from the phone. She complied but then told me she was going to shut down so we will both be miserable and depressed. She is downstairs crying. I don't even know what to feel. I still want to save our marriage but I don't think she even cares at this point. I feel empty. She says she doesn't think she is meant to be married. Everything I saw as hope was an absolute lie to keep me in the dark on her part. Sorry Texan but this fantasy EA is going nowhere...some guy on a plane who lives 2k miles away isn't going to hang around. When did she meet him? I would confront this man by phone. Call him and tell him you are XXX's husband, Texan44...that you have been married for xx years and your oldest son also won't appreciate someone messing with his mom...that if he has any sense at all he will leave your wife alone unless he wants a whole lot of trouble. Don't threaten or yell but very firmly tell him to get lost and lose your wife's number permanently. If he tries to respond, tell him shut up and don't EVER contact your wife again...click. Most OM are scared off if they think some "crazed" husband may hunt them down.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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At least now you can deal with the real issues. Go check out the Surviving An Affair forum. There are many threads to give you hope!
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I am completely devastated. I hacked my wife's iMessage and routed it to my iPad and she has indeed been having a long distance EA. Some guy she met on a plane last time she went to visit her mom. 10 years younger. Nothing physical has happened because he is 2000 miles away. I told her she didn't have to leave the house but if she stayed she had to break it off right now in front of me, delete his info, and block the number from the phone. She complied but then told me she was going to shut down so we will both be miserable and depressed. She is downstairs crying. I don't even know what to feel. I still want to save our marriage but I don't think she even cares at this point. I feel empty. She says she doesn't think she is meant to be married. Everything I saw as hope was an absolute lie to keep me in the dark on her part. I'm so sorry, Texan. You have done the right thing by snooping and discovering crucial information you needed to move forward. When you say she broke it off, does that mean she wrote a No Contact letter? No Contact Letters Here's what needs to happen: From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends. Go to the top thread of the Surviving an Affair forum and start reading. You are in Plan A. As a man in Plan A, make sure you have eliminated ALL love busters. Don't threaten to kick her out of the house and don't move out yourself. Stay put and try meeting any of her emotional needs she allows. She's going to be depressed and withdrawn and angry. She will feel better if she can get to a doctor for ADs. Be very patient and kind through this time. Also, Dr. Harley would tell you that you don't HAVE to save your marriage and that he would completely understand if you sought a divorce instead of trying to recover after infidelity. Howver, if you want to save your marriage, MB is the way to go. If you follow this plan and can eventually invite your wife to join you, your marriage will recover and be great - much better than before.
Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010
Recovered thanks to Marriage Builders
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Im so sorry Texan44. Im glad you know now, but sorry it had to happen like that. please follow the plan here. You CAN recover your marriage. She's saying the same exact things every other wayward says. I promise you, that.
BW-27
FWH-31
DS-6
Married several years
D-Day- 11/22/13
Plan A+Exposure
NC+Beginning of Recovery-04/2014
In Recovery and happier and more in love than ever
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Texan, I'm sorry this has happened, but I am glad you have found out the truth. Be sure not to order your wife around during this time. Just tell her honestly how much her affair hurts you and let her know that any continued contact with the OM or repeat of the circumstances that led to her affair will be unbearably painful to you. Quietly and simply inform her family, your family, and anybody else important in her life about the affair. Also, reveal the affair to the OMs wife and family (track them down if necessary). Then, contact the OM and demand that he never see or talk to your wife again. Meanwhile, I suggest you watch this video, with your wife if she will watch it with you, and get ahold of the book Surviving an Affair. Infidelity: What Every Couple Should Know
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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And Texan, whatever you do, do not fight with her. Do not become demanding, disrespectful, or angry toward her. If you don't want to stay married to her any more, that is fine, but for your sake, don't fight with her about it. If you decide that is what you want, just see an attorney, arrange a quick divorce, and don't see or talk to her any more.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I am completely devastated. I hacked my wife's iMessage and routed it to my iPad and she has indeed been having a long distance EA. Some guy she met on a plane last time she went to visit her mom. 10 years younger. Nothing physical has happened because he is 2000 miles away. I told her she didn't have to leave the house but if she stayed she had to break it off right now in front of me, delete his info, and block the number from the phone. She complied but then told me she was going to shut down so we will both be miserable and depressed. She is downstairs crying. I don't even know what to feel. I still want to save our marriage but I don't think she even cares at this point. I feel empty. She says she doesn't think she is meant to be married. Everything I saw as hope was an absolute lie to keep me in the dark on her part. Texan, I am so sorry. There are so many people here that know exactly what you are going through. If you go back and read the first few replies to your original post, you will see that all the signs were there. When the members of this forum read a story like yours, they instantly see the red flags. Your wife was so disconnected, that it was plain to see her emotional needs were being met by another man. The good news is the good members of this forum have helped many BS�s recover their marriages, and turn them into marriages that you never thought could be possible. Please listen to what they advise you to do, especially a full and complete exposure, on both sides. Looking back to last summer, I think I could have potentially lost everything if I had not exposed my wife�s affair. Do not cut corners, and think your situation is unique and different. All affairs are the same, and they thrive on addiction. Without full exposure, your wife will be right back at it.
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Is the OM married? When will you be exposing?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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So sorry to hear this, Texan But I'm not surprised. She seemed wayward to me. Don't disappear -- stick around. We can help you. Many here have been there, and have followed this program to achieve wonderfully recovered marriages. And others have followed this program to achieve wonderful self-recoveries without their waywards. Either way, we can help. Either way you choose, you need to read this link: Exposure 101
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And listen to markos. Don't order your wife around. I know it feels natural and right, but you can't afford any lovebusters at this point.
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We talked until 4 in the morning. I told her that I still have not completely given up, but I cannot right now get around the infidelity. She showed me the note she wrote the guy. Something like "My husband now knows we have been talking and under these circumstances we can't continue talking. I am so sorry." The showed me deleting his history, contact info, etc. She has promised me that she will not contact him again, and will show me and delete any further messages the guy sends. As of yet the only message I saw him send was "wait, what?" then nothing. I have told her that unless she can commit to therapy and a real plan we cannot continue. I just can't relive cheating again. She told me over the course of the night that it had been many more times than the 1 she ever told me about, which was my fear. I still love her but she needs serious help. I am so sad and yet I am relieved that this was revealed. I didn't order, I gave her choices and although I know she felt pressured she chose to break it off. At this point the little hope I still feel is the source of most of my pain.
I know that she is hurt, in pain, shocked, depressed, all of the above. I am too. Just trying to keep it together for my son. We have both agreed that it is too early to have any talks with him or my oldest. I will try my best to be there for her needs and not bust up what is left.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/27/15 03:49 PM.
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I just can't relive cheating again. She told me over the course of the night that it had been many more times than the 1 she ever told me about, which was my fear. What do you mean by this^^^^? Another affair or she admitted to a PA with this guy (had sex with him more than once)?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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We have both agreed that it is too early to have any talks with him or my oldest. This is a grave mistake. Your boys are not stupid and will notice things are not right in your house. Please tell them what is going on before you make them confused and more worried.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Have you exposed this affair to friends and family? It also needs to be exposed to any children 4 and older. Did you read the exposure link I gave you?
Get Surviving An Affair (SAA) ASAP. You can buy it and download it off of amazon. Start reading it.
LongWayFromHome gave you the checklist you will need from SAA. Start going down the list.
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We talked until 4 in the morning. I told her that I still have not completely given up, but I cannot right now get around the infidelity. She showed me the note she wrote the guy. Something like "My husband now knows we have been talking and under these circumstances we can't continue talking. I am so sorry." Good grief that's a clear message that she is going to 'manage' you before resuming. I know that she is hurt, in pain, shocked, depressed, ALL cheaters do. It's an addiction and a miserable, irrational state. Just trying to keep it together for my son. We have both agreed that it is too early to have any talks with him or my oldest. I will try my best to be there for her needs and not bust up what is left. PLEASE do not lie to them and allow them to blame themselves for the now unmistakable tension in your home. You have no idea what they have seen over the years and you all need to know what's going on as you wrench her free. Facing her children may be the only thing able to save her. Never seen it done without that step.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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We talked until 4 in the morning. I told her that I still have not completely given up, but I cannot right now get around the infidelity. She showed me the note she wrote the guy. Something like "My husband now knows we have been talking and under these circumstances we can't continue talking. I am so sorry." The showed me deleting his history, contact info, etc. She has promised me that she will not contact him again, and will show me and delete any further messages the guy sends. As of yet the only message I saw him send was "wait, what?" then nothing. I have told her that unless she can commit to therapy and a real plan we cannot continue. I just can't relive cheating again. She told me over the course of the night that it had been many more times than the 1 she ever told me about, which was my fear. I still love her but she needs serious help. I am so sad and yet I am relieved that this was revealed. I didn't order, I gave her choices and although I know she felt pressured she chose to break it off. At this point the little hope I still feel is the source of most of my pain.
I know that she is hurt, in pain, shocked, depressed, all of the above. I am too. Just trying to keep it together for my son. We have both agreed that it is too early to have any talks with him or my oldest. I will try my best to be there for her needs and not bust up what is left. Your wife has poor boundaries around men, and that's why she has affairs. It's a bit rarer for a person to actually go and SEEK affairs. If she's actually trolling for affairs, she would have to drastically change her lifestyle to make affairs virtually impossible. However, most affairs happen because a spouse has poor boundaries and allows another person to meet their emotional needs. She doesn't need therapy for this. She needs to institute Extraordinary Precautions for the rest of her life. And so do you. You should sit down with your children as soon as possible, without your wife, and tell them what's been going on. You don't have to go into gory details. Just tell them that you have just discovered that their mother has been having affairs but that they will be okay and cared for, that you love them. Your wife must disclose to you the people with whom she had affairs: who they were, where she met them, the nature of the affair. She needs to eliminate every condition of the affairs. Exposure is very important now. Your close friends and family and clergy should all know so they can hold her accountable and to support you in what will turn out to be one of the most painful and difficult times in your life. Definitely find out as much as you can about this OM, and any others, and expose to his family and friends, ESPECIALLY to his spouse, if married.
Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010
Recovered thanks to Marriage Builders
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No. At least she says no.
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You need to find out and not just take her word for it.
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I just can't relive cheating again. She told me over the course of the night that it had been many more times than the 1 she ever told me about, which was my fear. What do you mean by this^^^^? Another affair or she admitted to a PA with this guy (had sex with him more than once)? I mean that 6 or 7 years ago she came to me and confessed to an affair. It put our marriage in serious harm and through some counseling we were able to decide to try to move past it. Through time, prayer, and lots of patience and love we got back on track. It was an online EA that culminated in 1 night physical affair(guy lived in England). This is the only one she ever told me about but last night admitted to more before the one I knew about (didn't give me a number) and 1 between that and now that she said lasted a month. This floored me. This last one was purely EA and only 1 month (until last nights confrontation)
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Texan, it is great that you have the truth out in the open. Your situation demonstrates what happens when couples don't affair proof their marriages after an affair, they experience more affairs in the future. I can't count the couples who have come back on this forum after ignoring the basic steps for recovery with repeat affairs. But you don't have to be like that if you follow these steps.
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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No. At least she says no. You need to find out - on your own - who he is and if he is married. The affair should be exposed to his spouse and his family. Does he have a Facebook account?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Your marriage has never recovered from her previous affairs. Extraordinary Precautions were never put into place, and Just Compensation was never received.
You could still recover your marriage if you want to, by using this program and following the checklist. Your marriage could become affair-proof and deeply romantic and fulfilling for both of you.
Do you want to recover at this point? Or do you want divorce?
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How old are your children?
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No. At least she says no. You need to find out - on your own - who he is and if he is married. The affair should be exposed to his spouse and his family. Does he have a Facebook account? Exactly. You need to be finding this guy's family and expose him. You've never exposed any of your WW's past affairs and so do the right thing this time.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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] Just trying to keep it together for my son. We have both agreed that it is too early to have any talks with him or my oldest. I will try my best to be there for her needs and not bust up what is left. i would start here by exposing the affair to any children over age 4. Your children should not be given false explanations for the source of tension in their home. That only confuses them and teaches them that lying is acceptable. Dr. Harley on telling the children: The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults. Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery. The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight. Q. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)
A. Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse). My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.
The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.
The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).
Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.
It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I just can't relive cheating again. She told me over the course of the night that it had been many more times than the 1 she ever told me about, which was my fear. What do you mean by this^^^^? Another affair or she admitted to a PA with this guy (had sex with him more than once)? I mean that 6 or 7 years ago she came to me and confessed to an affair. It put our marriage in serious harm and through some counseling we were able to decide to try to move past it. Through time, prayer, and lots of patience and love we got back on track. It was an online EA that culminated in 1 night physical affair(guy lived in England). This is the only one she ever told me about but last night admitted to more before the one I knew about (didn't give me a number) and 1 between that and now that she said lasted a month. This floored me. This last one was purely EA and only 1 month (until last nights confrontation) Are you going to follow the Exact Precise steps now, or try to piecemeal a recovery plan between you and your serial affair Wayward Wife? Following precisely means that YOU find out on your own about the OM and see if he is married and expose to his wife. Also, YOU, by yourself inform your children. Or Not..... You can keep going through this over and over again, or choose to divorce her. LTL
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Texas,
Given the amount of lying your WW has done, she needs to take a polygraph to prove you have the complete story.
Get tested for STDs, you may need to DNA test your children as well.
God Bless
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I told her that I can't get past the infidelity. I can't trust her. She isn't trustworthy. I still care for her very much but She still says she can't guarantee this sort of thing won't happen again. I don't know what drives this behavior but it is so destructive. I know she feels guilt, shame, hurt. I feel sad. Our children are 10 and 22. my parents don't want me to give up. I don't know if it is possible to move forward.
I truly don't understand how she can do this.
I still have her iMessages routed through the iPad. She told her brother earlier that we are getting divorced. She forgot it was still on maybe. We never made a final decision together, that's for sure. I feel sad for her because this sort of issue will not lead her to a good life.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/27/15 09:53 PM.
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Texan, I'm sorry this has happened, but I am glad you have found out the truth.
Be sure not to order your wife around during this time. Just tell her honestly how much her affair hurts you and let her know that any continued contact with the OM or repeat of the circumstances that led to her affair will be unbearably painful to you. That is exactly how I put it. I told her I am still willing to stay together and try to save our marriage but that I could not under any circumstances let this EA go on. It would be torturous and unbearable. I told her if she chose to stay it all has to end right now. The problem is I can't trust my wife.
Last edited by Texan44; 02/27/15 10:16 PM.
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Texan, I'm sorry this has happened, but I am glad you have found out the truth.
Be sure not to order your wife around during this time. Just tell her honestly how much her affair hurts you and let her know that any continued contact with the OM or repeat of the circumstances that led to her affair will be unbearably painful to you. That is exactly how I put it. I told her I am still willing to stay together and try to save our marriage but that I could not under any circumstances let this EA go on. It would be torturous and unbearable. I told her if she chose to stay it all has to end right now. The problem is I can't trust my wife. Texan, Dr. Harley would say that there are some circumstances under which nobody should be trusted, and some circumstances under which anybody can be trusted. The feeling of trust, and the feeling of being in love, are both restored by following this program. Each of you can take actions this program recommends that will affect the feelings of the other. At this point there is no rational reason to trust, but that can be fixed later on. It is not necessary for now, and in fact you certainly shouldn't trust right now.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I told her that I can't get past the infidelity. I can't trust her. She isn't trustworthy. I still care for her very much but She still says she can't guarantee this sort of thing won't happen again. I don't know what drives this behavior but it is so destructive. I know she feels guilt, shame, hurt. I feel sad. Our children are 10 and 22. my parents don't want me to give up. I don't know if it is possible to move forward.
I truly don't understand how she can do this.
I still have her iMessages routed through the iPad. She told her brother earlier that we are getting divorced. She forgot it was still on maybe. We never made a final decision together, that's for sure. I feel sad for her because this sort of issue will not lead her to a good life. Texan, i am confused. Are you reading our posts? We have completely recovered our marriages from affairs and are trying to show you what you do. Are you not reading our posts?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Texan, it is great that you have the truth out in the open. Your situation demonstrates what happens when couples don't affair proof their marriages after an affair, they experience more affairs in the future. I can't count the couples who have come back on this forum after ignoring the basic steps for recovery with repeat affairs. But you don't have to be like that if you follow these steps.
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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No. At least she says no. You need to find out - on your own - who he is and if he is married. The affair should be exposed to his spouse and his family. Does he have a Facebook account?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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] Just trying to keep it together for my son. We have both agreed that it is too early to have any talks with him or my oldest. I will try my best to be there for her needs and not bust up what is left. i would start here by exposing the affair to any children over age 4. Your children should not be given false explanations for the source of tension in their home. That only confuses them and teaches them that lying is acceptable. Dr. Harley on telling the children: The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults. Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery. The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight. Q. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)
A. Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse). My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.
The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.
The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).
Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.
It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I told her that I can't get past the infidelity. I can't trust her. She isn't trustworthy. There is no reason to try to beat this point into her; of course you can't and shouldn't trust her right now. I still care for her very much but She still says she can't guarantee this sort of thing won't happen again. If she will follow the steps from Dr. Harley that were laid out in an earlier post on your thread today, it will guarantee that this can never happen again. You need to get your wife to take those steps, and in return you need to take steps to get your wife to fall in love with you. I don't know if it is possible to move forward. Infidelity is the most painful experience one human being can inflict on another, but those who have followed the Marriage Builders program have been able to move forward after an affair. Texan, you need to: * Go through the extraordinary precautions that were listed out above * View the video from Dr. Harley on infidelity * Get the book Surviving an Affair and start working through it. All of these things need to be done ASAP.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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We are taking valuable time out of our own lives to help you and we would appreciate a response to our posts.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Texan, do not sit in paralysis moaning that you don't understand how she could do this and don't know what drives this behavior. We here are all very studied in affairs and will tell you exactly how and why it happens AND HOW TO PREVENT IT. Then you will know the answer, and if you continue to say you don't understand we will be able to remind you that you do and what caused it and how to make sure it never happens again. Here is how affairs start: How do Affairs Begin?Anatomy of Adulterychapter 13 of His Needs, Her NeedsPlease view the video from Dr. Harley ASAP: Infidelity: What Every Couple Should Know
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Just trying to keep it together for my son. We have both agreed that it is too early to have any talks with him or my oldest. NONONONONO!!!!! QUIT making agreements with her, unless it is something that this recovery program recommends the two of you agree to. This is a terrible thing to agree to. Go violate that agreement RIGHT NOW, just the same as she violated her agreement with you, and TELL both of your children exactly what she has done. GO TELL YOUR CHILDREN. Do not come back with an excuse as to why you will not do this, or we will let you know exactly why you cannot hope to recover.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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You need to find out - on your own - who he is and if he is married. The affair should be exposed to his spouse and his family. Does he have a Facebook account? This is some young guy my wife met on a plane. He lives in a different country. I wouldn't begin to know how to track down any info.
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You need to find out - on your own - who he is and if he is married. The affair should be exposed to his spouse and his family. Does he have a Facebook account? This is some young guy my wife met on a plane. He lives in a different country. I wouldn't begin to know how to track down any info. You need to figure this out. Find out his name, marital status, everything. Do you have his name?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Do you have his phone #? His email address? He should be easy enough to track down. If you have his email address, try using it in a search on Facebook. For his phone #, go to http://safecaller.com/index.php
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You need to find out - on your own - who he is and if he is married. The affair should be exposed to his spouse and his family. Does he have a Facebook account? This is some young guy my wife met on a plane. He lives in a different country. I wouldn't begin to know how to track down any info. You need to figure this out. Find out his name, marital status, everything. Do you have his name? I made her delete everything from her iphone after she sent the cut off message. When I saw the message go out from her iphone last night just before it all erupted it just had a G on it, so that's the letter of a first name.
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You need to find out - on your own - who he is and if he is married. The affair should be exposed to his spouse and his family. Does he have a Facebook account? This is some young guy my wife met on a plane. He lives in a different country. I wouldn't begin to know how to track down any info. You need to figure this out. Find out his name, marital status, everything. Do you have his name? I made her delete everything from her iphone after she sent the cut off message. When I saw the message go out from her iphone last night just before it all erupted it just had a G on it, so that's the letter of a first name. You can get everything back with some software: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2826225#Post2826225You MUST find out who it is. Otherwise he is free to come in and out of her life. You can't exactly protect yourself and your marriage without this information. We need you to be a little more strategic and proactive, Sir.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You need to find out - on your own - who he is and if he is married. The affair should be exposed to his spouse and his family. Does he have a Facebook account? This is some young guy my wife met on a plane. He lives in a different country. I wouldn't begin to know how to track down any info. You have his number, correct? You can check online records and get his number and then look his number up online to get his name.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Texan it is highly likely he IS married. She didn't send him the sort of 'buzz off' message you send a hook up and she hasn't left you for him.
The message she sent him warned him about you. She is telling him to be on his guard in case you find him.
If he has a wife, then yours is just a side dish and he will dump her.
It is worth finding him and running him off - at least for your child's sake. You don't want him being introduced to this guy as his new stepdad, which is likely.
Please follow through with exposure for your son if not for the marriage. His mother has an addiction and that cannot be good for him.
I'd look into getting ADs too, you sound a little battered and they can give you the short term focus needed to beat this.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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You need to find out - on your own - who he is and if he is married. The affair should be exposed to his spouse and his family. Does he have a Facebook account? This is some young guy my wife met on a plane. He lives in a different country. I wouldn't begin to know how to track down any info. You need to figure this out. Find out his name, marital status, everything. Do you have his name? I made her delete everything from her iphone after she sent the cut off message. When I saw the message go out from her iphone last night just before it all erupted it just had a G on it, so that's the letter of a first name. Not knowing who the fox is means he is free to enter your life again. He can move next door and you wouldn't even know!! He has assaulted your marriage and unless you take steps to keep him out, he will come back. Count on it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Look at your cell phone bill for out of state numbers. Look them up on Spokeo. That should at least give you a name and a city. Then you can search other sites for the address and Facebook for his family. He has a wife.
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PS Do not feel bad about "snooping". No affairs in my marriage and we snoop. But we call it transparency.
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Have you told your children yet? Have you seen this? Exposing to Children
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I just can't relive cheating again. She told me over the course of the night that it had been many more times than the 1 she ever told me about, which was my fear. What do you mean by this^^^^? Another affair or she admitted to a PA with this guy (had sex with him more than once)? I mean that 6 or 7 years ago she came to me and confessed to an affair. It put our marriage in serious harm and through some counseling we were able to decide to try to move past it. Through time, prayer, and lots of patience and love we got back on track. It was an online EA that culminated in 1 night physical affair(guy lived in England). This is the only one she ever told me about but last night admitted to more before the one I knew about (didn't give me a number) and 1 between that and now that she said lasted a month. This floored me. This last one was purely EA and only 1 month (until last nights confrontation) Why is it that you didn't bother to mention your WW's first affair when you first posted here? Really Texan!!!! That is not a minor oops to withhold and then act dazed and confused that your WW is withdrawn from you. I told you that you are both conflict avoiders and you are still being one. That you don't want to expose to your children is another indicator of that. Go tell your children what is going on. Own up to your neglect of your wife through gaming but don't take responsibility for her serial cheating choices...that is 100% on her. If you aren't serious about either trying to salvage your marriage by using MB or proceeding with divorce, then stop wasting people's time. Sorry if that sounds harsh but you are in your own fantasyland and need to wake up. I personally wouldn't attempted recovery with a serial cheater (I divorced one) but that is your choice to make. If you do decide to divorce, TX is a fault state and her adultery can be cited. Either way, stop shielding her from the consequences of her affairs and being an enabler.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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BR makes an amazingly good point. Adultery scares you so you avoid handling it - mentioning it even. You stick your head in the sand and pretend the problem is you. You, you can control.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Why is it that you didn't bother to mention your WW's first affair when you first posted here? Really Texan!!!! That is not a minor oops to withhold and then act dazed and confused that your WW is withdrawn from you. I told you that you are both conflict avoiders and you are still being one. That you don't want to expose to your children is another indicator of that. Go tell your children what is going on. Own up to your neglect of your wife through gaming but don't take responsibility for her serial cheating choices...that is 100% on her.
If you aren't serious about either trying to salvage your marriage by using MB or proceeding with divorce, then stop wasting people's time. Sorry if that sounds harsh but you are in your own fantasyland and need to wake up. I personally wouldn't attempted recovery with a serial cheater (I divorced one) but that is your choice to make. If you do decide to divorce, TX is a fault state and her adultery can be cited. Either way, stop shielding her from the consequences of her affairs and being an enabler. I was so shellshocked by the whole situation rolling around again (the talk about her not loving me anymore) that I was honestly not thinking straight. Her actions around the house are what made me suspicious and lead to the uncovering and confrontation. She just wants out, but it is not that easy for her. Her entire family are in Canada. I know she would rather be there but she will not abandon our son to achieve that. I'm an excellent father and provider. I am a very caring and nurturing person by nature. She does know this. Through this ALL for some reason I still love her. She does not love me. She has definitely cut off all contact with the EA. She has given me access to her phone and email. I think she knows what a crap situation she has put herself in. I am not going to put her out in the street. I know this is enabling but this is the mother of my children and I will not do it. As long as she is in the house she understands that there can be NO engaging in outside relationships with men and I will be checking up on her. I guess when I first came here my marriage was already DOA and I just didn't know it yet. I didn't mean to waste anyone's time and I was sincerely looking for a way to save my marriage. Right now all my hope is in Jesus Christ.
Last edited by Texan44; 03/02/15 11:26 AM.
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You can still turn this around! don't give up yet. Go read Wifedivorcing's thread for encouragement.
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Are you wanting a plan to save this, Texan?
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I was so shellshocked by the whole situation rolling around again (the talk about her not loving me anymore) that I was honestly not thinking straight. So now that you are thinking straight, you are going to tell your children about her affairs, right? Are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio show?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Are you wanting a plan to save this, Texan? Aside from divine intervention inside my wife's heart I really don't believe this can be saved.
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So now that you are thinking straight, you are going to tell your children about her affairs, right?
Are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio show? I am not going to talk to my 10 year old son about how his mother allowing men to use her sexually. I haven't decided what I am going to do yet.
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Are you wanting a plan to save this, Texan? Aside from divine intervention inside my wife's heart I really don't believe this can be saved. In that case, I would suggest you do two things: * Tell your children about her affairs (alone, not with her) * See an attorney today and start divorce proceedings, planning a lifestyle where you do not have any contact with her. Are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio show, daily?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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So now that you are thinking straight, you are going to tell your children about her affairs, right?
Are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio show? I am not going to talk to my 10 year old son about how his mother allowing men to use her sexually. That doesn't make any sense. He is 10, not 3. Does your child seriously not know the birds and the bees at age 10? Don't say "allowed men to use her sexually." Say "your mother has had an affair with two men. Let me tell you who they are so you can recognize them." EXPECT UNHAPPINESS IN YOUR FUTURE IF YOU DO NOT DO THIS. Regardless of whether you decide to remain married or not. Are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio show, daily?
Last edited by markos; 03/02/15 12:42 PM.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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He is 10, not 3. Does your child seriously not know the birds and the bees at age 10? Even if he doesn't, a 4 year old can understand "Mommy has a boyfriend, and a married lady is not supposed to have a boyfriend. It hurts Daddy terribly." Your son knows something is wrong. He just doesn't know what, and he may even think he's to blame.
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