Honestly, with all I have been through, and if I was to find out that it was physical affair through a Polygraph, then I would probably have to say �No� to recovery. If she was to tell me on her own, on the way to get the Polygraph, and be open and honest with me, then It would be a definite �Yes� to recovery.

Throughout this whole ordeal, it has been the lies and betrayal that hurt more than anything else.

And this is what Dr. Harley told Gamma:


If you are going to choose recovery, then you are going to have to leave her affair in the past INCLUDING whether or not it was a physical affair. Deal with the problems you are having in the present, not with those in the past.

It was a physical affair. You can bet money on it. She's not going to tell you, and you are better off if you divorce her now rather than going crazy over it for years to come.

You need to either drop it and move on into recovery, or divorce her.

Prisca,

Originally Posted By: unwritten
I would not have been able to recover without the full truth.
I would have filed for divorce if my H had refused the poly.

To which Prisca responded.
You are also a woman. Men can recover without the full truth, and sometimes have to.

Why is it that that a Betrayed Man is not due the same level of disclosure and honesty that a Betrayed Woman is due?

God Bless
Gamma

If you are willing to line up with Gamma and take tips from him, so that you can end up in his state of mind...well, that's a very sad outcome after all these months of MB advice, some of it directly from Dr H.

Gamma has let the events that happened before he was even engaged to his wife prey on his mind, to the extent that he is willing to leave a 30-year marriage for them. He knew about her seeing another man before he got engaged, but now he is willing to divorce because he believes he has never been told the truth.

Some people have been telling you to listen to me, and now I'm telling you to listen to marcos and Prisca.

Accept that your wife had a physical affair, and go forward on that basis. If that knowledge causes you to want to divorce, as is your right, then do so now. If it does not make you want a divorce, then drop the whole thing - polygraph and all.

You can, of course, follow your plan, which is to stay until the kids are grown up, try and have a pleasant marriage, and leave when they are older. However, you don't need MB advice to guide you through that, and indeed there is no MB advice designed to help you go through the motions without being romantically in love with your wife, so if you take that path, please accept that you are not doing Marriage Builders.

Gamma, RR and you are both entitled to do what you want. If you feel, as unwilling does, that you will file for divorce if your wife refuses a polygraph, then demand a polygraph test today, and file for divorce if she refuses it, or if she fails it.

unwilling went through with requiring a polygraph, and she went forward in her marriage once she had the results. She did not do what you are doing, which is to cajole and persuade everyone else on this forum to demand a polygraph, while not have the balls to demand one yourself.

If you require full disclosure and honesty, then why haven't you long since issued the ultimatum that RR proposed earlier today, which says "polygraph or divorce"? Why have you been on this forum for years, playing games to bring your wife into the presence of the man she dated while single, whom she hasn't seen for over two decades? Why are you trying to befriend him, to see if you can win his confidence? Why do you pussyfoot around this issue with your own wife, instead of saying that you want the truth now, or you're leaving?

You don't do that, but you go from thread to thread telling real BHs to hold out for full disclosure, and thus going against Dr Harley's direct advice to them and to you. You seem to want other BHs to do the job in their marriages that you are too scared to do in your own.

If RR feels the same as you did, then he has the same choice to make as you did. I don't think anybody is telling him that he does not have the right to demand a polygraph.

The issue is that his wife won't give him one. If that is unacceptable to him then he needs to file for divorce.

If he won't file for divorce (or separate from his wife) then he needs to accept the lack of a polygraph, and if he is going to do that, and if he wants a Marriage Builders marriage, then he needs to find a way to rebuild his marriage without a polygraph test being taken.

Ultimately, he has the same choice you had, and the same choice anybody has, male or female. If he makes that demand he needs to follow through if it isn't met, and if he isn't prepared to follow through then he needs to leave the issue alone.

That's complete nonsense.

He is due the same - but a) he isn't going to get it and b) her no to the polygraph IS the answer. It basically means there is no longer any reason to believe her version of events. She was given an opportunity to prove it and failed to take that offer.

He is definitely dealing with physical affairs. Unconfessed ones.

Now if he thinks he's not been given his due, he can say no thanks and ride off into Plan B - which is the right of any BS no matter what gender.

However it is the case that he doesn't have to if he doesn't want to. He can recover without the polygraph (he's already got his answer from it).

Here's were the gender differences do come in: WWs don't have to be at all remorseful for recovery to be successful. Attempt it with an unremorseful WH though and you're doomed.

All that's needed from the WW is the ability to follow a plan which affair proofs the marriage.

Unlike a woman who needs to see on your knees remorse - a man actually has more options. He can decide it's not good enough or he can continue to woo her into recovery.

Up to him. A woman has to choose divorce.

What neither gender can (successfully) do however is your option - lovebust them for years with demands and judgements instead of walking away.

Youre right in saying this choice will lead to divorce following a death of a thousand cuts but I'm surprised you don't think she will be the one pulling the trigger.

SC,

You wrote, If RR feels the same as you did, then he has the same choice to make as you did. I don't think anybody is telling him that he does not have the right to demand a polygraph.

So as a variation on this if RR files for divorce and his WW asks him what he wants is it then ok to ask for the polygraph?

God Bless
Gamma

Why do you need a variation on this? Wasn't what i said clear enough?

There was a lot that was said yesterday in regards of my options, and after thinking things over last night, I have decided that the path that is best for me and my family, is to just accept that I will never know exactly what happened. I love my wife, and I am willing to go all in on recovery, and put the idea of a Polygraph out of my mind. I could never go through the pain I went through last year again, so in the future if she was ever to do anything like this, I would go instantly into Plan D�.

I just realized last night, that if I choose to obsess over this for years, it will only bring me misery and hate. I forgive her for what she did, even if it was physical. I know that over time, my heart will heal, and a form of trust will be restored. I don�t believe I will ever be able to trust again in the way I did before, but I do believe I can get to a place where I feel safe again.

I want to thank all of you that have taken the time to reply to me. I am truly amazed at the good people that are on this forum. I am so glad I stumbled across this website last spring, because I have read other forums, and I really don�t like the advice they give to BS�s. This place is the best.

I hope that's not a sign-off, Rock. You're not out of the woods yet. You should drop the polygraph issue, but not the issue of her job, where you cannot see her emails, nor her flirting.

We were not encouraging you to drop everything and give your wife her right to independent behaviour!

No, it�s not a sign off, I just wanted to express my appreciation to you guys. I know my wife and I are not out of the woods yet. We have a long way to go, but I still see great potential. When I originally created an account here last June, I was trying to think of a username, and I thought about how much potential our marriage had if we would follow the Marriage Builders principles, so I thought of our marriage as �A Diamond in the Rough�, so that is where I got RoughRock, and the 18 is the number of years we have been married.

I still struggle with triggers whenever my wife is around other men, but I am at least able to address it with her, without too much fallout.

I agree with Sugarcane. Dropping the polygraph doesn't mean that you just let her run all over you and do as she pleases. You need to be complaining regularly (and VERY respectfully) about her flirting and her job.

There's still work to do here. And it's going to take a lot out of you. You really need to get back on those ADs if you're going to make it. You also need to be listening to the radio show every day in addition to listening regularly to the the shows linked here in your thread.

It would also be good for you to write Dr. Harley and ask him if you can call into his show. Talk to him like SusieQ suggested.

You still tend to lovebust her when that happens, which will make all your work pointless. This is another reason to get on ADs.

I just have not figured out how to complain about her flirting without love busting. I try to be very nice and to the point if I don�t like something she does.

Here are a couple examples from the last week. Saturday we were at a Volleyball game for my daughter, and we were sitting on bleachers, and there was a random couple sitting behind us. So my wife strikes up a conversation with the guy, with something simple like �So which one is your daughter�? Then she just kept on carrying on the conversation, asking what city they were from, and all sorts of stuff, and I noticed that his wife didn�t join in at all. So after a bit, I simply nudged her leg to get her attention, because it was really starting to bother me. Well she took the hint and then gave me the �Are you serious�?, and the same �You are out of line, and that is no big deal speech�. All I said to her, is �I am just letting you know that bothers me�. Not another word was said about the ordeal the whole night, and she was pleasant the rest of the evening.

Then, the other situation that bothered me, was we had a new neighbor stop by, that we had never met before, and he was a very good looking guy. The kind of guy that I know she would think was attractive. He was not there very long, but in our short conversation, he mentioned that his daughter was the assistant principal at my daughters highschool. Anyways, the part that bothered me, was that evening she mentioned things from that conversation like 4 times, like she was still thinking about it. Then later that evening when my wife was talking to my daughter, that was one of the first things she brought up. She asked my daughter if she knows so and so, and that is the neighbors daughter blah blah blah. I never said a word, but it bothered me that she was still thinking about it. I never would have thought twice about this in the past, but things like this really bother me now.

What do you think? Did I handle these situations okay?

RR, I think that's a bit more heavy handed than it needs to be. I think it would be better to write her a note, after the fact, each day when something like this happens, saying "The way you were talking to John bothered me."

The important thing is to pass her the information. Her initial reaction to it will probably not be positive. But over time, keep passing the information. If you've passed the information, you've done the job, and then back off from it.

I agree with markos. She has not bought into MB, so you're going to have to be very light-touch.

But you still need to make the complaint. A note once a day is a very good, light-touch way of doing it. Don't try to address her behavior in the moment -- that can very easily lead to lovebusters.

Just having one of those days where I need to vent a little, and rather than saying anything to my wife, which would just cause trouble, I will say something on here. Even if nobody replies, it still feels good to get my thoughts out there.

Lately I have been triggered by dates really bad. Starting around Valentine�s day. Last year I was jumping through hoops trying to be the best husband in the world, and I went all out for valentine�s day, and got her a bunch of stuff, including flowers, Chocolate, and a card. She sent me a text that said �You truly are the sweetest man alive! I love you so much. I AM so lucky to have you loving me. Thank you!(I saved the text, so that is word for word). Well, about ten days after Valentine�s day, is when she started texting him. Obviously I was clueless, and for the next few months thought things were getting better.
So I am triggered really bad by certain dates. I just am so angry that she could spit in my face the way she did. Today I have been triggered, because I remember this day last year so well. It is still so clear in my mind.

A year ago today is when I texted her at work, and she wouldn�t really reply, and she told me she was too busy to text, and I ended up telling her that night that I didn�t understand why I felt so completely alone. I was so confused. Then later looking at phone records, that night she texted him almost 100 times. It just stings so bad, and it still feels so fresh.

There are many more dates like this around the corner. I can�t seem to avoid these feelings. I have managed to keep them to myself, but I think my wife still senses that something isn�t right. Anyways, I just needed to get that off my mind.