Hello,
My wife of 9 years told me last week that she was done, no longer loved me. But, since we have 3 young children, she doesn't want to divorce right away. She wants us to continue living together, as parenting partners. I don't know how long she thinks we'll live like that, but wants to take it a year at a time for as long as we can. I refuse to accept that it's over, and begged for her to reconsider. She doesn't want to hear about it. In the end, I saw the positive aspect of our "parenting partnership", that being a chance for me to get her to love me again.

But there are a few problems.

First, she's not interested in working on our relationship. She has been unhappy in our marriage for a very long time, now telling me that it has been 8 years, but got worst over the last 3 years. Secondly, she has rekindled a friendship with an old boyfriend just at the same time that she made up her mind to finally call it quits. She claims its just a friendship and that she needed someone to talk to. I'm quite afraid that its more than that. She hasn't seen him in over 5 years, doubt she's talked to him since then, at least that's what she tells me. I'm inclined to believe her. He's always been in love with her, and stayed friends with her family well beyond the end of their relationship. Luckily, for the moment, we live abroad so he's 6000km away. However, this summer we are moving back home and he'll only be about 500km, and rather close to her family (a convenient ride when she visits them). I'm not sure if her decision to transition our marriage to a "parenting partnership" happened before or after contacting him, so I can't say that he's to blame. But they established contact in the same week, initiated by her. So he's a factor, in my mind. We had a talk about him, and she swears that there is nothing, he's just a friend she can talk to. She doesn't have any other close friends around here and she doesn't want to talk about it with her family.

After our first talks about her decision, I left it alone for a week. I didn't want to fight or meltdown. And I hoped that she would have reconsidered and accepted that perhaps we could work on our marriage. Our talk today didn't go well. She was incredulous that was still hoping to get her to love me again. That's when I found out she's been unhappy for close to 8 years, rather than last 3 years. Now I don't know how what to do. I don't want to give up, but clearly she doesn't want to try. She's now at peace with her decision and starting to be happy again. She doesn't put the blame all on me, although I'm the prime offender, that it's just the way she feels and that can't be changed.

Background. There have been no major issues or red flags in our relationship. No infidelity, no abuse, no mental health issues, no addictions, etc. I'm a loving father, great relationship with the kids. The major issue is that I'm not a very emotional person, and I haven't been demonstrative enough of my love for her. I never really reached out to hold her hand, never bought her flowers for no reason, never gave her a hug out of the blue and told her I loved her, etc. In her words, I wasn't a good husband... to her. I wasn't a mean person. But sometimes my temper was short-- no yelling, just sarcasm or snapping. I usually apologized soon after. Never raised a finger. I worry about money, but we've always been in debt and always spent like drunk sailors (I'm a sailor, allowed to say that). We've had talks before, where she expressed how she wanted me to be more loving, and I've promised to do better. I've never quite made up to my promises.

What should I do? Is there no hope? Is she right to say that she's stuck around long enough, there's no point in giving me another chance? Is she refusing to work on our relationship because she's found a life-line with an old boyfriend? Am I a jerk for denying her an exit from an unhappy marriage?

Thanks for all your help!

Mac

How has she rekindled the friendship if they don't talk?

This sounds like at least an emotional affair and you need to get snooping and find out what is happening here. If she's in love with him, she's of course going to be disinterested in your marriage and you. You probably feel crushed, but her words about not being happy or in love with you for all of these years may not be accurate. She may be rewriting your history together in her mind since she has fallen for this other man. It is very, very common for a cheating spouse to say these sorts of things.

You need to get to the bottom of what is happening between them, and do so discreetly! If they have an inappropriate relationship, once she figures out you are onto them (e.g. because you are asking her about it or making it obvious that you are watching her) she will take it underground and make it very difficult for you to take the sort of action you must take to save your marriage.

So instead, snoop, find out if your suspicions are true, and come back here with what you find and tell us what it was before you say anything to her about it. We can advise you on what to do from there.

Welcome to MB, Mac. Sorry for the reason you find yourself here.

Your wife is having an affair with this guy, and that's the reason your marriage is in a crisis right now. An affair doesn't have to be physical to be a danger to your marriage. As a matter of fact, an emotional affair (EA) is just as dangerous to your marriage and probably even more so.

She has apparently had some complaints about you that you brushed off. Most women have affection and conversation as their top two ENs. You have neglected to fulfill these needs for her and your wife allowed this OM to meet those two very important needs for her. Your wife probably won't allow you to meet these needs if she's in love with another man, but you should still be doing small things that she will allow. Go out on dates and make them enjoyable. No relationship talk. Don't beg or plead.

Also, any anger or disrespect are love busters and will cause massive love bank withdrawals, no matter how "small." Even if you were a wonderful dad and great husband, angry outbursts, biting comments, sarcasm and the like will kill any woman's love. The fact that you never lifted a finger against her is small consolation. You will need to eliminate these love busters immediately.

That you didn't meet her ENs and committed love busters may well be part of the conditions of your wife's romantic attraction to OM, but the decision to engage in an affair is completely hers. So don't blame yourself for that. Every marriage needs extraordinary precaution to protect the relationship from affairs. Also, all waywards rewrite marital history, so try hard to ignore this kind of talk.

Meanwhile, don't ask about this guy anymore. You already know he's a danger to your marriage. Snoop quietly, install a keylogger and get the solid indisputable evidence that your wife is having a romantic relationship with this guy, putting it in a safe place, then expose the affair to your friends and family and children. Exposure is extremely important, crucial even, and will make your wife very angry, but exposure is the first step in breaking up an affair.

Exposure is not to punish the spouse; it's so the betrayed spouse can ask for support during a very painful time. It also shines the light of day on a poor decision.

Read up on Exposure Here

@axslinger85 - they were friends on Facebook, she got his new email address that way. I saw some FB messages that alerted me and I confronted her about it. She agreed that it wasn't appropriate and that he was getting the wrong impression. I'll see about snooping.

Thanks LongWay.

I'll need more proof that her friendship is more than just that before I expose. I wouldn't expose her to the world anyways, I don't agree with that. It's between her and me.
I understand the need to tend to her EN and avoid love busters. For the love busters, I've been doing quite well in recent months. But for EN, it'll be hard. She won't go on "dates" with me (trusts no one to babysit kids), won't snuggle with me, won't let me touch her in any way. I brought her flowers last week and that led to an argument, where she reaffirmed that it was over and I had to live with that decision.
What do I do? Be patient, kind and caring, remain good friends and hope that one day she'll come to her senses? I can do all that for a long time, prove to her that I can be the husband she needs and wants. But I want to know if it's a hopeless mission, or if I should be more direct. Right now, the direct approach has failed. Hard.
Thanks,
Mac

Hi Mac, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. You don't agree with exposure, but do you agree with saving your marriage?

We understand if you choose to let your marriage go, but just be aware that we can't help you if you choose to hide the affair for your wife. The reason is because affairs thrive on secrecy, so if you help her hide it, you only serve to enable it. And enablers don't make it because nothing we tell you to do can overcome your enabling. It would be like if your wife was a crack head and you drove her to the crack house and helped pay for her crack experience. That is what you would be doing if you help her hide the affair.

Dr. Bill Harley is a clinical psychologist and author of Surviving an Affair. He has specialized in saving marriages from affairs for 40 years. Those of here in recovered marriages attribute that to exposure. Dr. Harley calls exposure the most critical first step:




So, if you are interested in saving your marriage, this is what you have to do. NOTHING we tell you to do will be of effect unless you expose the affair and run off the OM. All the need meeting and love buster avoiding will be for naught. You will be spinning your wheels while asking volunteers here to help you push a car up the hill with the parking brake ON. You want to make it? Then expose the affair and take the parking brake OFF.

I would also add that the whole reason for the problems in your marriage is your wife's affair. She is rewriting history about how "horrible" the marriage is to throw you off balance so you won't look too hard at her affair. Her goal is to keep you around to take out the trash and take care of the kids while she explores her affair and the possibilities of replacing you with the OM.

All waywards attempt to influence their betrayed spouses to be their "friend" so a) they can pursue their affairs in peace and b) so you won't be upset while she draws away from you.

The affair is destroying your marriage and your children's family and she wants you to be the nice guy ["friend"] and don't interfere with her plan.

Your plan of not exposing is a very complacent approach and that approach reflects a lack of caring. If you want to show you truly care, you should fight for your marriage.

Do you understand she is planning to replace you as husband and father of your children? Are you fine with this guy taking care of them - except for every other weekend?

You're going to have to take a stand here. It sounds like you think you can simply be nice and she'll change? No, no, no.

Is this OM married?

This is why you need to quietly snoop and find out what's going on. In marriage,the only privacy is in the toilet. Otherwise, our lives should be an open book. You need to get solid evidence quickly and quietly.


Exposure is highly recommended by Dr. Harley, and he has years and years of experience in the field of infidelity. Exposure is critical in the busting up of an affair. It's not done with anger or recriminations or with the idea that it's great "revenge." Lots of affairs break up right away upon exposure. Once you have the evidence, don't keep the dirty little secret. Let your family, friends,and children know so they can encourage her to end the EN.


Good! Eliminating love busters for good is extremely important for the recovery of the marriage.


She's acting this way because she's in love with another man. Don't try to touch her for now, if that annoys her. Show her you care in other ways.


Be patient, be kind and caring and friendly but hope in itself will get you nowhere. MB is about having and instituting a PLAN that has the best chance of ending the affair and recovering your marriage. It's not hopeless! But you will need to follow the plan carefully. [

]
I would find out as much as you can about this man. Is he married? Where does he live? What is his marital status? Does he have a Facebook page? If he has a Facebook page, I would go to his page and copy all his contacts into a text doc for safekeeping.

Don't ask your wife anything about him, just quietly find this out on your own.

You have a small window of opportunity to kill this affair off before the affair goes too far. The longer you wait to bust it up, the more entrenched it becomes and the more solidified the plan to replace you.

Thanks all. I'll get snooping.

To answer Brainhurts' question, OM is a married family man.
Of course I care-- I don't want my family destroyed, I don't want my kids to meet a second dad and I don't want to visit them every other weekend. I'm extremely mad, frustrated and hurt. Everything she says is grounded in truth, whether it's exaggerated to rewrite our history, I can't say. She doesn't deny contacting OM, but claims he's a friend and she needs one right now. But still wants her privacy. I don't think she's only keeping me for the trash or money. It would be simpler for her to simply go our separate ways once we return home (reminder: currently abroad until summer). She's doing it for the kids-- which is something I can build on. I think.

You say you are a sailor. Does that mean you are away from home for periods of time, of overnight?
If so, that usually has a bad influence on marriages and you may want to overtink your career options.

If your behaviour had really been bad enough to END the marriage to her kids dad - she wouldn't want to be friends.

A desire to be friends is a very high indicator of an affair. That and the dreaded 'I love you but not in love with you'.

If her OM was single, she'd be getting rid of you. Since he's married, he's made it clear he 'won't leave his kids' (married men like to stay with their wives and keep the side action going as long as possible).

Exposure would ruin the fantasy for her - she believes they will be together when the kids are grown - a fantasy which could last years. Exposure to his wife is likely to result in your wife being dumped.

It's critical that both your families know because you simply can't recover if she is allowed to remain in the fantasy mind set. She is supposed to feel ashamed of this - the old her would be.

Her family could help - particularly as he lives so close.

Without exposure Dr H has known the APs to reunite 20 years later after an apparant recovery. It's a high flown addictive fantasy, they believe they are soul mates. With exposure, they see it for the shameful episode it really is.

Many former waywards on this forum will tell you they were saved by exposure.

An affair is not a happy place. Your wife is very depressed and desperate. She us being used as a side dish.

She needs EVERYONE'S help.

Yes, you can build on it if you kill the affair. If not, then nothing you do will be of effect because you are competing with a fantasy. I predict you can easily save your marriage if you snoop, get the evidence, and expose the affair. The OM is not going to risk his marriage for a little side fun. But the more entrenched the affair becomes, the more likely you will be replaced with the OM. This is why you need to act fast.

Mac, as someone who has been in your place, exposure is the ONLY thing that ended my husband's affair. She is speaking lines from the Wayward Spouse handbook. The affair NEEDS to be brought to light, to everyone, including that d-bag's poor wife.

I have a key logger on our computer, but can't find anything. She has deleted everything from her email account, and I don't have evidence of another account. Perhaps time with key logger will tell if she has another one. She relies on her smartphone, which she keeps very close at hand. I wouldn't be able to install anything on it, unless I can do it remotely.

She's talked to her family about our situation, and although they are sad for her, they support her. Of course, I don't know what (or if) she said about the other guy. I doubt she said anything.
The other guy's marriage isn't necessarily a happy one. But same situation in reverse; he'd like a divorce, but she doesn't. He knows that as a man, he's unlikely to have his kids full time and he doesn't want to deal with the every other weekend bit. Spouting off to his wife will expose, but may give him the push he needs to separate. Exposing the "affair" to her family won't go far either. They know him and like him; after my wife's relationship with him, he remained friends with the family for years. He'd be walking back in as a familiar face that makes their daughter happy. I'm the unhappy making guy. As for the kids. Her sister has already divorced her husband of 10 years and she's as happy as ever, with a new boyfriend (also happens to be an old boyfriend) who's great with the kids. So, in her family's view, this isn't a bad thing. Just another fork in the road.
I'm doing my best to snoop. She mainly uses Facebook messenger and email. No phone calls or texts. Again, they're separated by an ocean, so no physical contact.

Yes, I'm a sailor, but I've been in HQ for years, since the kids have arrived. I'm home, frequent absences isn't an issue.

If it is an iPhone, you can install spyware remotely. Go to the thread stickied at the top of this forum "Start here first." There is a link for spyware.


In other words, she lied to them about the real problem so she can set the stage to replace you. She lied to them because she knows they won't support her affair.


Obviously, your wife knows something you don't or she wouldn't be hiding her affair. Why hide it if they love adultery and love the OM so much? She would have no reason to spin the story. [with you starring as the villain, of course] What exposure will do is ruin the affair and most likely gain you some allies. We have had many parents who actually busted up the affair. I seriously doubt the OM will leave his family for your wife, so exposure will run him off. At this point, he is unlikely to leave his wife and children to take on YOURS.

I seriously doubt your in-laws support and advocate adultery and would have the same feelings for the OM if they knew his role in the destruction of your marriage and their grandchildren's family. Maybe they are those type of people, but I predict they would not support the OM if they knew he was attempting to wreck your family.

Exposure is your only chance at saving this. If you choose to enable the affair, she likely will leave you for the OM. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so if you become an accessory to the crime, there is nothing we can do for you.

I understand exposure sounds scary to you and you imagine all sorts of bad outcomes, but we have been through this a thousand times and know it is your best chance. There are no guarantees, but you are guaranteed to lose your wife to this OM if you sit there and allow him to replace you. That is reckless and irresponsible. Complacence reflects a lack of caring that won't be soon forgotten.

Few marriages are "happy" when one spouse is having an affair. He is certainly neglecting his wife and children to pursue his affair with your wife.

A bad marriage is something to be turned around, not an excuse to have an affair. Having an affair never helps marriages, after all. "Bad marriage" is a classic excuse to have an affair so the betrayed spouse can be blamed. It is a PLOY to keep the BS off balance and confused.

I am curious, would you take this same complacent approach if a terrorist was breaking into your home assaulting your wife and children? Because that is what is happening and you are doing nothing to stop it. Like I said, complacence reflects a lack of caring.

of course his marriage is unhappy when he is talking to his mistress!

All affairs are based on that kind of blather. Each one says only what the other one wants to hear.

You understand me much better than my real partner... We have no troubles here in our bubble...

It would be pathetically easy to bust this up.

You need to get the info off her smartphone. Do whatever you have to. Drop a chair on it and buy her a new one with spyware preinstalled.