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I understand the need to expose and blow it all up. But in exposing my wife on Facebook to all of our friends and colleagues, I would find it very hard to look at them in the face if and when all this sorts itself out. Even if I couldn't save my marriage, I'd have a hard time. I know that it would show everyone that I tried all that I could, but at the same time it's a lot of laundry to air. Can't exposure be restricted to his family, her family? I know it may seem like half measures, but exposing to their/our families would have sufficient effect to freak them both out. At this point, either it will break it off or I'm guessing resolved them to official leave their spouses and give it a try. After I said their convo was done, they started up again. They're deep in lovey-dovey, I'm glad you opened the door with that or that comment, we're something special you and I. It's clear that he's loved her since they dated (close to 18 years ago) and I'm getting the impression she never stopped having feelings for him. If that's the case, am I done? If she truly has had feelings for him for so long (and without rewriting history), could it be true that she no longer loves me, loves him and that's that? Nearly 2am and I'm not about to fall asleep. Long day ahead for me.

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Mac, you need to understand this is fantasy. Would you lure a long-lost love by talking about her boobs? Is that how you got your wife to go on a first date? No, its being used for cheap thrills. Its an insult. Once you get how this is a silly fantasy and bring it to REALITY, you can fight it.

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Originally Posted by MacTheSpoon
I understand the need to expose and blow it all up. But in exposing my wife on Facebook to all of our friends and colleagues, I would find it very hard to look at them in the face if and when all this sorts itself out.

Facebook exposure should be done to the OM's contacts, not your wife's. The exposure to your wife's side should be close family and friends, most of which will be via phone call.

But I think the basic issue is that you view exposure as a bad thing when it is a good thing. Exposure is the most therapeutic thing you can do for your wife and the OM. So, I am unclear why you would want to RESTRICT a much needed therapy? It doesn't help you, your kids or your wife. The greatest danger is doing a trickle, half way exposure, because it does not kill the affair, only emboldens the affairees. This is why you need to be thorough.

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Even if I couldn't save my marriage, I'd have a hard time. I know that it would show everyone that I tried all that I could, but at the same time it's a lot of laundry to air. Can't exposure be restricted to his family, her family?

With the OM, you will want to go farther than that because you have no idea who will be influential with him. With him, for example, you will want to expose to his parents, family members and married friends.

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I know it may seem like half measures, but exposing to their/our families would have sufficient effect to freak them both out.

And this is what you don't know because you don't have experience at this. I think your approach comes from a wrong headed belief that exposure is a bad thing. It is a good thing. You should not restrict your greatest weapon against the affair. It is not strategic and makes no sense.

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After I said their convo was done, they started up again. They're deep in lovey-dovey, I'm glad you opened the door with that or that comment, we're something special you and I. It's clear that he's loved her since they dated (close to 18 years ago) and I'm getting the impression she never stopped having feelings for him. If that's the case, am I done? If she truly has had feelings for him for so long (and without rewriting history), could it be true that she no longer loves me, loves him and that's that? Nearly 2am and I'm not about to fall asleep. Long day ahead for me.

She truly has feelings for him and may have fallen out of love with you. We already knew that, though. That describes 99% of affairs. That is what we are here to fix. Her relationship with dirtbag has no future.

hopefully you are saving a copy of their chat logs.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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It's very much like a crack head. Crack heads LOVE crack! They love that high. But does the high last? No, it doesn't because life cannot exist while on crack. And what happens when you invite a crowd of people into the crackhouse to watch the crack heads get high? It is no fun to get high with every one watching!

Our goal is to remove the crack pipe [the OM] from the life of your wife. Once we do that, we will teach you how to create romantic love in your marriage. A love that this marriage wrecking dirtbag can't touch.

Ask yourself what kind of creep has an affair with a married woman?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Mac,

You wrote, I know my wife, she won't send him any "nude pics" over the internet, she's not a dirty talker or phone/internet sex kinda girl.

When your WW is in an affair you do not know her, recognize that an affair is an addiction. Just as you would not trust a drug addict with family heirlooms, you cannot trust your WW not to engage in phone or internet sex, in fact it is probable.

God Bless
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Originally Posted by MacTheSpoon
I know it may seem like half measures, but exposing to their/our families would have sufficient effect to freak them both out. At this point, either it will break it off or I'm guessing resolved them to official leave their spouses and give it a try.

I agree with Melody, you do not know what will be sufficient to freak them out. But having been where you are, I cannot fathom that you would ever regret OVER exposing them. I would bet money you would regret under exposing if it doesn't work out the way you think it will.

Since this is all so new to you, it's easy where you are you to feel like her affair makes her a bad person, and will make everyone around you feel like she is a bad person, and thus you both will never be able to overcome the stigma of an affair.

But if you look at the stories on this forum you will see people of all walks of life in all positions in society (even sacred ones, such as clergy!) having affairs. This is because anyone is capable of having an affair if they are not careful. Dr. Harley says this himself often. Not sure if you're a Christian, but the Bible plainly speaks to this:

Matthew 15:19 - For out of the heart come evil thoughts�murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

This is a natural temptation if you place yourself in harm's way!

And don't kid yourself about other people either. Infidelity, abuse, pornography addiction, neglect...any one of these problems have likely affected marriages in the people around you, they affect nearly every marriage at one point or another. Don't think these people you are worried about having to face have perfect marriages with no struggles or problems to overcome.

It's very intimidating, but you need to remember your marriage is already in terrible danger and there's no use pretending that your wife does not desperately need the help of your close friends and family. That's reality.

I'm so sorry you've found yourself here like so many of us have in the past, but worrying about how your friends and family will view you (or your wife) going forward is not a luxury you can afford right now. You've got to focus and hit this thing between the eyes as hard as you possibly can.

This is the sort of situation where at least some of the people around you are going to disagree with your course of action no matter what you do. You can't let that influence your decision.

This is your marriage to fight for. That's what matters here.


Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

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It's a critical mistake to make to think you know her. While an addict she bears little resemblance to the person you knew.

If you leave her any friends or supporters, who don't know - the addict will cling to that.

There have been lots of people scared to expose who are now to 'go to' couple for advice. You'll be amazed at how sympathetic people are. You'll be amazed that there are cheats among them! You'll be amazed to discover you aren't some sort of social freak - more than half your targets have experienced this themselves.

But we don't talk about it!

It's critical you find out which friends are supportive, and which have cheat mindsets themselves.

You don't have the luxury to be embarrassed.




What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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As for the 'true love' theory. It's always possible to fall for old flameses. Dr H says that feeling never goes away.

You might discard someone for a very logical reasons and move on - but affairs don't care about logic.


Last edited by indiegirl; 03/17/15 02:00 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Thanks all.

MelodyLane - I've kept a copy of their chat last night. It's incriminating enough.
After snooping on that chat, I stayed on the couch in the living room and decided to sleep there. She came by, not sure why she came out of the room-- I know I made some noise and perhaps she came to check. I was clearly distraught, but didn't divulge that I had read anything. Just told her I couldn't sleep, she thought I had never gone to bed and had decided to stay on couch all night. So that worked out. We talked a bit, but it was all the same arguments- told her that I couldn't allow our marriage to fail, for us but also for the kids. That we had hit rock bottom, but could rebuild from there and make sure that we're both happy in our lives. Together. For her it was the same, no longer have those feelings, won't come back, etc. But for the kids, she's not leaving. I pressed on, what happens in a year? She told me that she didn't tell her family that she was leaving me, but we were going through something very difficult. Was that a door for possible reconciliation? She's still adamant that it's not and she can't help how she feels. I told her that it hurt me that she's talking to OM, in full privacy mode. She still maintained that its a friendship. Told her from my perspective, it looks like she's keeping me at a distance because of him. She again said that we had crossed a bridge of no return in our marriage before she started talking to him, so he has nothing to do with our situation. She wasn't admitting to falling for him, but not denying it. I didn't want to divulge how much I knew, I may have already cause some damage in my efforts. She truly seemed torn, tearing up. The harm it will do to our kids is truly the key. But she feels what she feels! She doesn't understand why I'm not letting go, why I'm doing this to her; she just wants to be happy and it won't be with me.
It hurts me, I want her to be happy, and maybe she's right that it'll never be with me. And maybe she would be with this guy. Although, I doubt it. It wouldn't really last long, I think. Doesn't seem like he grew up very much, but he does seem to be the type of guy that people like. He'd make her happy for a while. Anyways, we left off the conversation with me reiterating that I'm not letting go without fighting for us.

I know you had said to say nothing. But I got caught on the couch with tears in my eyes (I'm weak, I know). A talk was inevitable, I think we wanted to see if I had read anything and she seemed to think I didn't. Key logger report from this morning hasn't revealed her trying to change her FB password or anything, she just went on to surf on her page. From keylogger and internet search history I can see that she's constantly looking at pictures on his FB page (him, his kids, wife, etc) and every so often she does the same with her own pictures (us, the kids, etc). I'm hopefully she's torn despite her being adamant that it's over.

Indiegirl- yes, you're right, old flames sometimes never die. There is still a girl from high school that I think about-- one that got away. We never dated actually, but got close and I loved her so much. Broke my heart. We're friends on FB, never really talked though. Saw that she went through a divorce and now back in a relationship after a few years. I never, ever contacted her. I think of her, but know that it's that nostalgic feeling, "the one that got away". If we had dated and broken up, perhaps I would have let it go. To add details to my wife's story with this guy. They were friends, then dated. She wasn't sexually active then, so nothing ever happened. But he was smitten and has carried the flame. She has referenced their night on a road trip in a hotel, where something could have happened, but nothing did. It's clear that she thinks about that and wants to make amends. He thinks he'll finally have sex with a girl he's wanted for 18 years, so he's fat dumb and happy. Now that I'm airing our laundry, I may say that he had sex with her sister right after their breakup-- that's why they stopped talking for years. He had stayed friends with the family. I can't wait to throw that one in there-- how will Thanksgiving dinner be with your parents, the new/old boyfriend, your sister that slept with him and her new boyfriend that will certainly find out about that history.

Sigh. Long rant. Feel like I'm coming undone, but it feels good to talk about it. I'm not talking to anyone else about it, wouldn't know who to talk to. So this is good.

Thanks all.

Mac

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Mac,

You're not weak for getting upset about this. It means you are human. You should talk to your doctor about anti-depressants for the time being, it will help you have the clarity you need right now to fight this battle.

Don't feel bad for having a long rant. It's good for you to have outlets for venting right now that AREN'T your wife. When you expose, you will find friends who understand and support your marriage, and you can vent to them too.

You are in limbo, and being in limbo is terrible so you're going to want to get out of limbo by trying to talk about your marriage with your wife. You cannot do this. Even though you haven't exposed yet you need to be in Plan A, and that means no relationship talk for the time being. When you're troubled about being in limbo, I would recommend that you instead get on here and read/learn as much as you can so that you are more prepared. Here's some places to get started:

Dr. Harley on Plan A/Plan B

Another betrayed husband who won his wife back through a STRONG Plan A

Read Mr. Wondering's posts on Plan A here, they are excellent

Your wife doesn't understand how romantic relationships begin or she wouldn't have let herself get close to this other man. You can use that to your advantage right now by working to make life at home/with you as pleasant for her as possible. You will be making yourself more attractive to her without her even realizing it's happening, because as you've said, right now she does not want that.

No arguments, no relationship talk, no conversations about OM or the affair(until you expose). You have lived with this woman and have the inside track on how to spoil her, and I would encourage you to take advantage of that. Nothing over the top, just all of the little things she likes and needs from you. You're going to have to create a contrast here that the exposure will draw out when it happens: life with you is good, life with OM is stressful and shameful. You can work on life with you right now, and when you expose it will take care of life with OM. Make a list TODAY of things you can do that your wife would enjoy or has asked you for in the past and get started on that. Don't expect her to thank you or show gratitude, you're just planting seeds here that will sprout once you do a WIDE exposure and help her understand that she has no future with OM.

But every conversation about your marriage or relationship will push her as if she has to make a decision now, which you don't want (yet). And every conversation about her relationship with the other guy will make her more concerned about taking it underground where you won't be able to snoop and monitor its progress, which you don't want either. Snooping is a strategic asset, and without it you will lose all intel on how you can bust up this affair. You already have a very good start on knowing what is happening in their world, and you need to preserve and protect that channel into their world. She is headed towards giving you the type of information you must have when you expose...you need to have what would be sufficient to convince a judge or jury that your wife is having an affair when you go to expose. It will prevent her from being able to push back and call you a liar, which is what she will desperately want to do (and may even try).

After exposure you can talk to her about the affair, but even then it should be limited to how much the affair is hurting you. Right now I would not say a word about it so that she does not take their relationship underground where you can't snoop. The more she realizes you are aware, the more paranoid she will become.

And to recap, talk to your Dr. about ADs so you keep a cool head throughout this ASAP. The more evidence you get of their relationship, the more difficult it will become not to be emotional with her. Keep your head up, you're in a great position to bust this thing up and win your wife back compared to a lot of BHs who come through here!


Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

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Originally Posted by MacTheSpoon
I know you had said to say nothing. But I got caught on the couch with tears in my eyes (I'm weak, I know). A talk was inevitable, I think we wanted to see if I had read anything and she seemed to think I didn't. Key logger report from this morning hasn't revealed her trying to change her FB password or anything, she just went on to surf on her page. From keylogger and internet search history I can see that she's constantly looking at pictures on his FB page (him, his kids, wife, etc) and every so often she does the same with her own pictures (us, the kids, etc). I'm hopefully she's torn despite her being adamant that it's over.

Mac, I want you to buck up here, because your situation is very hopeful. You feel hopeless because you don't understand what is happening. There is more hope today than 3 days ago when you arrived.

Let me explain what has happened here. Women are only in love with one man at a time. [men are wired differently] She has rekindled her relationship with this man and has fallen in love with him. It is a fantasy relationship much like a crack high that won't be able to withstand the light of day. I don't know what her future plan with this guy is, but the affair is the reason WHY she has fallen out of love. Sure, the love in your marriage was probably on the downward spiral, but her affair is what killed her feelings.

Be assured that her feelings of love CAN COME BACK if you will follow this plan. The first step is to gather evidence for a couple more days and then expose the affair. Once you do that, I predict the affair will end immediately.

Once the affair is killed and the OM is effectively run off, you can begin the hard work to restore the love in your marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Mac you will be OK no matter what!

Now stop talking to her for goodness sakes! She has jelly for brains at the moment. It's like talking to a lovesick 13yo girl about what will 'happen in a year'! She has absolutely no idea and doesn't care so long as her addiction doesn't die TODAY. Addicts only care about today. She will be in gruesome,awful pain when it ends - but then she won't remember it at all!

Unfriend the ex, Mac. Start modelling the behaviour you expect.

If she catches you looking teary again say 'Because I love you so much and nothing is too good for you'.

You are on Plan A duty round the clock.

Get ADs.


Last edited by indiegirl; 03/17/15 10:14 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by MacTheSpoon
I know you had said to say nothing. But I got caught on the couch with tears in my eyes (I'm weak, I know). A talk was inevitable, I think we wanted to see if I had read anything and she seemed to think I didn't. Key logger report from this morning hasn't revealed her trying to change her FB password or anything, she just went on to surf on her page. From keylogger and internet search history I can see that she's constantly looking at pictures on his FB page (him, his kids, wife, etc) and every so often she does the same with her own pictures (us, the kids, etc). I'm hopefully she's torn despite her being adamant that it's over.

Mac, I want you to buck up here, because your situation is very hopeful. You feel hopeless because you don't understand what is happening. There is more hope today than 3 days ago when you arrived.

Let me explain what has happened here. Women are only in love with one man at a time. [men are wired differently] She has rekindled her relationship with this man and has fallen in love with him. It is a fantasy relationship much like a crack high that won't be able to withstand the light of day. I don't know what her future plan with this guy is, but the affair is the reason WHY she has fallen out of love. Sure, the love in your marriage was probably on the downward spiral, but her affair is what killed her feelings.

Be assured that her feelings of love CAN COME BACK if you will follow this plan. The first step is to gather evidence for a couple more days and then expose the affair. Once you do that, I predict the affair will end immediately.

Once the affair is killed and the OM is effectively run off, you can begin the hard work to restore the love in your marriage.


Bingo!! Exactly how it's working for me!!


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Originally Posted by MacTheSpoon
Thanks all.

MelodyLane - I've kept a copy of their chat last night. It's incriminating enough.


Great! So you're ready for exposure, then?

The most effective exposures are done in 24 hours or less - don't drag it out so they hardly feel it. Ideally you want both his and her phone blown up by shocked people who are confronting them about it. Nuke the A.

Waywards are often prepared for discovery so you have to give them something they are truly unprepared for. They prep for one or two people's discovery and have little speeches like 'My marriage had already crossed a no return bridge before I started catting around' - speeches which sound plausible when it's being delivered to one or two people.

'My marriage had already crossed a no return bridge before I started catting around' - doesn't sound plausible when you are talking to everyone you know.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Sigh. No I'm not ready for exposure yet. I'm terrified about that.

She sent me an email today while I was at work asking for a "truce" so that we'd stop talking about it because it's upsetting both of us. Neither one of us can sleep, etc. Of course, last night she couldn't sleep because she was chatting with buddy. She reiterated that she wasn't going anywhere for now, we're keeping the family intact for sake of kids. But she's over me. Buddy had nothing to do with it, etc. They're friends and it makes her feel better (yes the crack). But she can't believe that I'd think I'd run off with someone else, especially at this time when she's so broken, etc. She's focussed on living in the moment and we'll see where this path leads us. Wants us to stop being awkward around each other and live normally (but without the touching/hugging/ kissing). It made me feel better. I though our chat last night may have hit a nerve and she was ready to snap out of it and give us a chance, without necessarily saying it that way. I had a great day after that. I got home and instant knot in stomach. She's not saying much to me. Fed kids, then she went to bed-- convenient, she's dead tired so likely story. I snooped her email and she sent him a note that she had another discussion with me, sent me an email to call truce. She suspects I snooped her FB messages because I didn't seem to be grasping at straws anymore (I told her I suspected she was falling in love with him based on fact she admitted sending him emails and fact that she was always clutching her phone hiding something). I didn't divulge anything, just told her what I thought as a husband who was told his wife no longer loved him and she turned to "a friend". Anyways, she told him that they should contact by email now (easier for me to snoop). She told him that I don't seem to understand that she ended things with me before contacting him. She's tired of all this and we still have 3 months abroad before heading home-- which is another point that scares me since we're looking for a rental house together when we return (offer is in), so what does she think happens in 3 months when we return? Officially dumping me, leaving me high and dry? Starting the physical relationship with him? That email was no more than venting to a friend, but told him not to sending "private" stuff on FB to avoid giving me ammo in case I'm snooping. So while I thought out email exchange may have been a step in the right direction, it seems once more that she's lying to keep me clueless and subdued and she's not stopping him from sending lovey-dovey emails.

So I still want to collect evidence, just in case I see that she's keeping him at bay.

Like I said, we're abroad with our 3 kids. She's homeschooling two of the kids, no real friends apart from one set of acquaintances. Although I know it'll likely end the affair, I'm afraid the exposure would create havoc here. Another tidbit... next weekend is our son's 3rd birthday. I would rather not be in a crap-storm that day for his sake. Second, the following weekend is her 40th birthday... we had planned something special as a family and still committed to it. I would also rather not destroy that day with exposure before hand. It would be a memory that I'd rather be protected rather than remembered as that period I exposed her to the world. We're having dinner in the Eiffel tower... I know, cry for me. Timing couldn't be worst.

I've taken your advice. No more relationship talk, no more about the affair. I'm supportive and loving. Should I change my FB pictures to that of our family or me and her? Or would that be too obvious and grating for her? I had thought of doing it a few days ago, but now I'm not so sure it's a good idea. I wanted to post the pictures and tag her in them so that buddy can see them as well (we're not FB friends).

Thanks,

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Let me know when you are ready to expose and we can move onto next steps. Nothing much to do until that happens and the longer you wait the harder it will be to bust up her affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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"Sigh. No I'm not ready for exposure yet. I'm terrified about that"

And yes, we were all terrified. But you wont succeed if you allow fear to be your ruler. You should be more afraid of what will happen if you don't.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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"Like I said, we're abroad with our 3 kids. She's homeschooling two of the kids, no real friends apart from one set of acquaintances. Although I know it'll likely end the affair, I'm afraid the exposure would create havoc here. Another tidbit... next weekend is our son's 3rd birthday. I would rather not be in a crap-storm that day for his sake. Second, the following weekend is her 40th birthday... we had planned something special as a family and still committed to it. I would also rather not destroy that day with exposure before hand. It would be a memory that I'd rather be protected rather than remembered as that period I exposed her to the world. We're having dinner in the Eiffel tower... I know, cry for me. Timing couldn't be worst. "

There is no such thing as a "perfect time." I view the above as conflict avoidance. It is in your sons best interest that you bust up his mothers affair and save his family. He won't remember his 3rd birthday party but he will remember losing his family because you wouldn't lift a finger to run off some creepy OM.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Let me know when you are ready to expose and we can move onto next steps. Nothing much to do until that happens and the longer you wait the harder it will be to bust up her affair.

Don't skip this and then post big long updates. There's no point to much of anything else you do if you are going to skip this.


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Originally Posted by MacTheSpoon
. I would rather not be in a crap-storm that day for his sake.

Your wife is having an affair - how are you NOT in a crap-storm?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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