Describing in nice terms, my wife cheated and lied. Now she is the victim? I was called an abuser and now a cheater? Something wrong with the picture.

This is my side of the story.

As friends, she flirted all the time with me. We ended up kissing without being yet in a formal relationship, although was a really close friendship. I read a letter she wrote to a friend, describing who would become OM as her blue prince and ideal man and describing me as her best friend. That was the start of the heart breakings. I had thought she considered me more. I withdrew from our friendship.

Then, she started calling me more. I thought her heart opened to me. We got closer, but then, OM asked her out and she went ahead and chose him and dated him. I withdrew again, and started getting closer to my ex.

She was out of my picture, but after three months, she saw me with my ex, and started calling me again. We became friends again, and started dating.

We had a class project the next day and we met in OM's house. She arrived earlier, and her jacket was on his bed. I asked her about it. Up to this day, I think she had something with him that day, the first day of us being boyfriends, although her story is that it was that she arrived minutes early that day due to their breaking up topic. So, why didn't she break up over the phone? Who goes to a man's room to break up?

So, I let it go. In the years of our dating, everytime he was around us, she gets nervous, and after he left, she acted different, was not talkative. Obviously she had feelings. I ignored that.

So, we married. 2 years into marriage, we run into him and his girlfriend in the movies. My wife is nervous as always, and we get home, and starts cleaning the house without talking much. Okay, so I let it go.

4 years into marriage, I find she googled him, and was trying to get in touch with him. She justified that with my contact with my ex. She was infatuated with her ex, while my relationship with my ex was that of siblings relationship, someone I met since pre-k. No comparison.

Then, 6 years into marriage, She starts picking up fights, and one day, she plainly says I dont love you anymore. She leaves the country with her ex.

I call her, she admits she had been in chat contact and then traveled with him, nothing else came out of her mouth. She wouldn't talk about her past. I wanted to be with her, so I did not want to admit it it had been more and did not want to know, so I did not read thieir chat. I did forgive her for having chatted with him and having planned a trip with him, but in no way did I ever think she had gone into a full affair with him. We set rules to our new life, we kept a journal track to keep improving. She promised to never chat with him again and we start a relationship. She gave me her passwords, I install spywares, cameras, until, We gradually build our relationship.

4 years into that, we visit her sister. Her sister's vibe triggered me, so I wanted to know what my wife and OM had chatted about in the past. What?!!!!!! She had declared her love to him, dedicated a song to him, planned her leaving me with him, revealed all our marriage secrets, problems. She had been in chat for 5 months. She met three times with him. She had ended the affair by telling him he was her platonic love, that was her ideal man but had a commitment with me and would restart over with me. I was ignorant of this. what kind of closure is that? if that is even a closure.

one year past that, Okay, I did not handle it well the first year, she contacted MB and I get accused of being an abuser. We start working over reasonable concepts. Then, she demands more and more, she starts snooping around, while she was the unfaithful one. Its annoying.

Conclusion: I married a wife who has a platonic love with OM, always has been infatuated with him from the start of our relationship, and even if she is not in contact with him, he has always been in her heart. So, why did she marry me? Why did she get back with me? And I am trying to work things out, she is advised by MB to snoop on me?

Which thread is your wife's?

I'm sorry; I forgot my calculator. So, can you be a little less obtuse about how long you have been married and how long ago these events occurred.

Platonic love and infatuation are at opposite ends of the spectrum, BTW.

This is newcase's H. I recognize the story.

Welcome to MB, sir.

The reason I went through all the detail is to display how she has been infatuated with this man from the start of our relationship, events which I was blinded from.

Actually, wife's display name was FSadSoul.

Hi PC, welcome to Marriage Builders. In what ways does your wife feel you are abusing her?

I was not abusing her. My wife felt she was abused because she was told so.

I did have a bit of a temper before the affair and we did have issues with my behavior, but I had changed already.

After I read the e-mails, I had a disconnect in my brain. The pain struck me hard. Her, out of all the people in the world? People saw her as saint, little more gave her wings. Her true identity came as raining rocks.

I did not abuse her. I was only dealing with my pain. But, okay, maybe it wasn't the best way, and I did realize that and change again, and started working things out. She called me a controller, I changed. She called me a manipulator, I changed. She said I wasn't completing her needs, I changed. She said I was always insulting her, I changed.

My real pain is that no matter what, I never had closure and will never be able to have closure. She took that away. She made a closure alone, if telling him he is the most wonderful man in the world can even be considered a closure. Yet, while I try to deal with my pain and create a relationship, she is snooping around my things.

You don't need 'closure' you need the no contact letter as outlined in SAA.

I'm not sure if his WW has sent the NC letter or not, good question.

But the behavior your wife has described here I would consider abusive.

Also the fact that she has had an affair 5 years ago does not give you an excuse to refuse to be transparent/accountable with her.

That is exactly my point.

I can't have the no contact letter as outlined, where she would mention the pain she caused, she would mention the respect she would show me.

Even her "no contact letter" was based on lies, telling him that I knew, while I didn't, telling him her parent knew, while they had no no idea. She wanted him out now to eliminate all evidence and still play the saint role and get back with me only to keep me from telling her parents about the chat, and keep that image she had in front of her parents.

Obviously, I was never meant to read the letter.

I have work to do. But before returning, because I am very busy, my wife is seeking advise from here, and her last advise is getting her paranoid and us further away. I am not having an affair, did not have an affair, will never have an affair, and my chat conversations with my ex were because of the pain she caused, I needed support, not affair based chats. I temporarily have given my ex up, but yes, I still have all her contact information. My ex is my friend, like a sister to me. My wife cheats, and I have to give up my friends now.

PC, your closure would come in the form of a happy and fulfilling marriage with extraordinary precautions. That can be your future if you follow the plan here. It's worked for multitudes, and it can work for you. If your wife has not followed the plan and sent her OM a no contact letter, then make sure she does that. She seems open to the plan, and if she follows it, it will make you feel safe again.

Our philosophy here is that any former lovers are a very serious threat to your marriage, and so both of you should end all contact with former lovers.

I think you can see how continued contact with a former lover led your wife right into an affair. You are not any safer continuing to contact your former lover, even if you feel like you could never do such a thing. It also seems to be hurting your wife that you continue to contact this woman and hide your contact with her from your wife.

You are playing with fire.

Pro Choice opposite sex friendships can play no part in a marriage. Yes that includes ex's who are like sisters. This is where affairs start when someone else starts meeting emotional needs who is not your spouse.

You shouldn't have had this friendship with your ex to begin with.

Dr Harley does not support opposite sex friendships in marriage.

So, will you end all contact with your girlfriend and give your wife all your passwords? And will you give her access to all your devices?

Is she welcome to check up on you, whenever and however she wants?

Are you going to start following the MB plan, and start building a life of complete transparency and romance with your wife? Are you going to meet her emotional needs? Are you going to take her out on dates?

Are you committed to never disrespecting her, never having an angry outburts, and never making another demand?

You are leading a secret second life. If you will not provide full transparency to your wife, and if you will not commit to protecting her and caring for her, then you are dangerous for her.

Prochoice,

If you are here to try to solve problems that are in the past and complain about your wife's behaviour in the past, you will never be happy.

On the other hand, you will be happy, if you are looking to improve your marriage from this day on, you can indeed have a happy marriage. To achieve that, it is neccesary to change the things that have contributed to past problems.

Your behaviour towards her is a recipe to make you look bad and marriage with you a difficult life. If you keep grilling her about the past that is a surefire way to keep the OM alive in her head and, compared to your behaviour, probably looking good.

Nothing in your wife's posts gives the impression that she does not see her role in your past problems. But you seem to minimize your role in the demise of your relationship.

Dangerous? I have always protected her, maybe not the right way, but I did care and love her deeply. So we did have some episodes of violence, but it was never towards her. I did acknowledge my wrongs and apologize to her, yet, she still left.

I do want to reconstruct our lives. I do have to admit most advises were positive, and have been helpful personally, but last ones havent been. Love should be based on trust. That is why I stopped snooping on her stuff. Then, why is she snooping on me? It is deviating from the main issue, her affair.

Love is NOT based on BLIND trust. Love is based on trust that is EARNED. You have not EARNED trust. You have not given her reason NOT to snoop.

PC,

Trust is earned. It's based on experience.

If what your wife is saying about hidden bank accounts and contact with other women and friends discussing the problems of your marriage is true, I would not trust you and I do not think she should either. I can certainly understand why you would have issues trusting her given what has happened, but that's not a license to do whatever you like to her.

Your wife left, but she also came back. Many, many men in your situation never get that second chance.

The main issue is whether you want to actually move forward and rebuild your marriage or not. You are not behaving like someone who wants to save their marriage and this is why we have advised your wife to be wary of you.

An apology does not erase violence or angry outbursts. It doesn't make you a safe person.



That is folk wisdom that has nothing to do with love. You should both be snooping on each other to make sure your marriage is safe. Snooping creates TRUST when the other spouse can see what you are doing when you think she is not looking.

It is a not a lack of trust that ruins marriages but a lack of boundaries.

Have you eliminated all anger?

Anger Management 101

Would you please answer my questions?

Yes, the answer to all the questions Prisca and brainhurts are yes, except the passwords. She can have acess when she wants, but I cant give her my passwords, I have a business to carry.

The reason I hadnt told her about my second business and account is not affair related, but actually financial stability and protection. I am remodeling the house, and have made investments. She would have opposed and been an obstacle. I am creating a better financial future for us.

The online dating I did in the past, that was just distraction to forget about her affair. When my wife asked to eliminate the accounts, I did.

As opposed to my wife's chat with her ex, that was sickening love exchange letters, my chat with my ex in the past was support to overcome my wife's lies and betrayal. The minute my wife asked me to stop contacting my ex, I did.

If my wife would analyze carefully the recent text, she would realize that my ex was the one trying to contact me and coincidently, my wife was holding my phone that minute. I would have told her. Wife asked me to end the communication again, I did.

And the reason I can't currently tell her what bothers me now is that she cries out of everything rather than talk.

I have no further comments. She is free to chose between following marriage builders and leave or restart our relationship, and we can talk about all the advises that can be applied to us. It would be of deep sorrow if she decides to leave, and she chooses to include our parents in our problems. Our daughters would be the ones who suffer the most and I do enjoy my wife's company.

PC, if your marriage fails, it will be because of your approach to marriage described above. You hide passwords from her [huge red flag!], engage in online dating, and make financial decisions without her input. I don't see much hope here unless you change those practices.

Do you want to lose your marriage?

Good grief. She is not a child. She is, or should be, an equal partner in your marriage.

First: you do not know that she would have opposed and been an obstacle to your financial wishes, because you did not ask her.

Second: if she did oppose them, then you had no right to make them. Once again: she should be an equal partner in your marriage. She must be having a rotten time being married to you if that is the way you treat her.

How dare you tell her that she has no right to make financial decisions equally with you!

Hogwash.

You're not safe for her.

That money is hers in law and when her divorce lawyer finds out you've been defrauding her and hiding money in the marriage, you are toast.

If you read Dr Hs why women leave men article, women are more likely to put up with physical abuse than having their decisions about the future ignored.

She is a grown woman who will divorce you and find a real partner she can make decisions with.

You can tell your own lawyer that it was a better financial move. No one will care and the divorce bill and cost of a second home will wipe out most of the profits.

Then it really isn't love because your wife cannot trust you.

Why is everyone so fast to judge? Why does everyone attack? I never said the money was for me. I did it for us. This is exactly why I never wanted to post for a start. Who said we are divorcing? We are dating real well.

I want to live a happy marriage, but our present has a past. I hadnt been thinking about her affair for a while until she started snooping and I started posting, so this advise isnt working.

Isnt this manipulation. I either give her my passwords, even though I was the betrayed spouse, or she once again ends our marriage?

I will give her access, all access, when she wants, although its unfair, only to move on with our lives. Maybe there are people who still keep their passwords who arent cheaters. Maybe when I told her it was my ex who was trying to contact me was true and not me to my ex, maybe my intentipns for my business was done with great desire to give my wife a better home.

I am displayed as a monster here, while in truth, I had my wrongs, and I admit it, and admit did not treat her good before, but she got her revenge 100x more. I would have rather she had stabbed me than betrayed me.

PC,

The thing is that your secret second life, although it was financial and not sexual, is still something that should not exist in an honest relationship.

Gamma

The secret second life with his ex was not "financial".

It's called MARRIAGE. A marriage will thrive when there is transparency for BOTH spouses.

It is not an attack on you to tell you that your wife deserves to have transparency from you. It is not an attack on you to tell you that unless you give her transparency, you are a danger to her.

Your reasons don't matter, even if they were honorable. Secrets are marriage killers.

You know, when I suspected my betrayed husband of being up to something, and I started snooping on him, he didn't whine about how it wasn't fair. Or how HE was the betrayed, and didn't owe me, or how he hadn't thought of my affair until I started snooping. He didn't complain at all when he found out, but instead he went out of his way to allow me to see what he was doing. He was even willing to take a polygraph. You see, he wasn't up to anything and was eager to put my mind at ease.

Contrast that with my reaction when I caught him snooping on me 5 years ago. I was having an affair, and I blew up at him, belittled him, and tried to chase him off for having the audacity to invade my privacy.

The guilty are the ones who have a problem with snooping. If you don't have anything to hide, you won't have a problem with your wife looking in on you.

What are you hiding?
So she now has your passwords?
Is she welcomed to check up on you anytime she wants, any way she wants?

You're not entitled to a secret second life just because she cheated first.

What would be wrong with that? That sounds like a recipe for a good marriage, to me.

Why shouldn't she end her marriage to you if you are not letting her verify your behavior? You said a marriage should be based on trust. Trust is a feeling that YOU have to create for her. She feels what she feels - you control that by your behavior.

Act trustworthily for long enough, and she will feel trust. Continue to declare parts of your life off limits, and she will not feel trust.

Do you want her to trust you, or not? It's in your hands.

From my point of view, when a husband or wife keeps part of their life secret from the other, they are ending the marriage.

Your present has your EX in it.


You're not following the advice. It doesn't work when it isn't followed.

When I think about my wife's affair, I simply don't bring it up. That's Dr. Harley's advice and it works well and has led to us having a happy marriage.

If my wife were doing something in the present that allowed her to have a secret second life, I would not tolerate it. I would complain loudly, and I would investigate, and I would reveal everything I found far and wide to everybody she and I hold dear.

Consider this from your spouse's point of view. Would you think that was a good reason if she hid things from you "because you would oppose what she wanted?" How would you feel if, when you found out, she said "I have every right to hide this from you because I believe it is for your own good?"

You may feel what you did is "right" but even if you can justify it in your own mind, who would want to be married to someone who felt it was okay to hide things from them because they "were an obstacle?"

Have you read up on policy of joint agreement on this site? If you don't do anything that you both don't enthusiastically agree to then you would not hide money from her but she also would not spend it on anything you didn't agree to. It's not easy, my spouse and I are still learning how to do it, but when we do it successfully we feel closer and safe with each other and we are both happy, instead of frustrated and resentful and feeling like we have no control over the situation.

I understand she had an affair in the past and you're resentful. But if you are going to use that to rationalize treating her like dirt today, what reason does she have to remain married to you other than maybe guilt?

What's done is done. If you're going to stay together, why not have a good relationship with precautions so neither of you ever does that type of thing again?

Reading your posts it sounds like you primarily want to punish her. That destroys your own chance of having a happy marriage too. How sad is that? Why not be her hero instead?

Betrayal is the most painful thing that ever happened to me so it's not like I dont sympathise. But financial infidelity was what ultimately made me divorce. Financial infidelity is not OK, because the money is not for 'us'. She doesn't even know about it! If it were really her money, she'd know about it and have a say.


I mentioned divorce because that's what I see happen over and over again when women find out about a SSL. You have two strands to yours and you're not being attacked, you're being told to clean up your side of the street.

I am ready to follow MB concepts, but my wife left me.

She has wanted to follow the concepts on this website, but I have been giving her the hardest time to do so, more of a resentful issue inside because she had cheated on me and then covered her evidence up and allowed us to continue our lives, but I am ready to let go of the past, I am sorry for my part of the problems in our marriage and for having treated her bad and I want to change that for good.

I just need her to know that. I have filled out my emotional needs questionaire carefully, and read for the first time my wife's emotional needs, and her list of examples. I hadn't fulfilled even half of those. I started reading the love busters book. I will hire help for the backyard as she first suggested, I never took her to the list of places I promised to take her, and we can go to the rollercoaster, and go skating, and even dance. I was thinking of putting some swinging couples sits in the back, so we can enjoy time there, if she agrees. I am ready for her to be my partner in all the decisions.

I know she got the advice from this site to leave me, but everything is a misunderstanding. It all started because she thought I was cheating, I never was. I used to my advantage the fact that I had been in touch with my ex to start acting secretive, but I only wanted her to see what that felt like, after she had cheated on me. I left the history profile page of my ex on purpose. If I had been cheating, I would have erased that. It took her three days to see it. I wouldn't have left it there by accident. I sent myself some e-mails too, she never even checked them, and I am glad. It was stupid, but I got mad when I was kicked out of the house due to that, called planB. The bad side is that I knew all the planA and planB theory, and I wasn't cheating, so I tried to go around it, and I said really awful things to her, none were true, and she believed them and left. I didn't mean any of that. It was immature. I would never harm her, but rather want to protect her. I am ready to restart now and follow a neutral points advice.

I know she is getting advice here, but I haven't found her new thread yet, I don't know where she is, she isn't even communicating with our babysitter, who was the intermediary in her letter, she isn't picking up her phone, she hasn't gone to school, her advisor has no clue, she even left some pending work and has a presentation tomorrow, the girls haven't gone to daycare, and the only note left was read marriage builders and do therapy. I have already scheduled therapy and I do recognize I have had some issues, and will solve them, and I am here in MB site, with full will and ready to learn. I want her back because she is a beautiful, sweet person, and I have never told her that I do love her and that I am sorry about how I have been acting. I want us to restart again.

Newcase, please call me back, or answer my e-mails, or at least talk to the babysitter, or talk to my dad. I called him and told him the truth, the real truth now. Don't talk to your mother yet. Give us a chance, the chance you wanted, I now beg for it.

ProChoice, I don't know if this can be saved. You have an enormous number of misconceptions. You seem to think that acting secretive with an ex is not cheating. I wouldn't tolerate that for an instant in my marriage, and neither would my wife.

Despite your comments about knowing Marriage Builders, I don't think you really know it much at all. You tried to punish your wife and make her feel bad and it's supposed to make her feel better for you to say that?

I do not believe you are serious about building a good marriage with your wife. If you were serious I believe you would be in contact with Dr. Harley himself right this instant, and you would be in serious anger management therapy (like in group sessions with guys straight out of jail), and you would be listening to Dr. Harley's radio show on a daily basis without fail and putting into practice everything you find there, for life. Even then I don't think you would be even slightly trustworthy until you had lived this way for a year.

And that doesn't even mention figuring out how to provide your wife openness and honesty and complete transparency for the rest of your life.

I think you are just here to manipulate her and you'll drop the act the minute you get her back.

There is no misunderstanding - we understand you completely perfectly. Prove me wrong with actions, not words.

I have seen men just like you do this a half dozen times here. I'm hoping and praying that one day I see one actually change for real, permanently.

Haven't seen it, yet.

I would love to see you do this.

I would dance with joy to see you do this.

I would call you the most awesome Marriage Builder ever if you did this.

But every man I've ever seen show up like you are doing now disappeared within 24 hours.

I would love to see you here day after day, listening to the radio show, daily, for life, putting the concepts into practice. I would love to see you win your wife back, the right way, instead of telling her things aren't so bad and telling her how to feel. I would love to see you in anger management and in contact with Dr. Harley, and building a fantastic marriage for your wife, your children, and yourself.

That would be wonderful.

I will be your biggest fan if you do this.


Then get started, and don't expect her back any time soon. Stop saying that you didn't cheat and start providing true honesty and transparency. Don't ever try to punish her again. Change for life. Commit to recovery, for life.

Figure out the Basic Concepts and start practicing them ruthlessly.

Figure out the Love Busters and get them gone, for life.

You are an abusive husband. Own up to that and fix it.

You are an unfaithful husband. Own up to that and fix it.

Many men have fixed these things before. My best mentor here was a former unfaithful husband. I learned so much from him. He is such a wonderful husband and father today.

But he showed up truly willing to learn and to act. Not just saying it. It wasn't just words.

Will you do these things?

Why shouldn't she talk to her mother?

Welcome to MB

I do not believe most of this, but let's suspend disbelief for a minute in the event that you are being honest. Though I worry like markos that you are trying to trick your wife into coming home, I am glad you are here because it at least gives you the opportunity to receive the help you actually need to fix this.

This is all fantastically stupid behavior that would run any woman off. Maybe it made sense in your head, maybe it felt good, etc. But the immaturity level of this narrative you present is off the charts.

If your wife was my sister, or a female cousin/relative, etc and she called me and told me what your wife told all of us you said to her after you broke back into the house, I would have called into work for the day and been in a car on the way to her home immediately with a loaded gun on my person in case it was needed and probably a friend or two to keep me from putting you in a wheelchair in the unfortunate event that you showed up as we left. That's how incredibly messed up it is to tell your wife in front of her own kids that it would be sad if there was an accident where they lost her mother. I hope your wife does not have brothers, and if she does, I hope for your sake they do not know where you live.

None of us want any marriage that can be saved and actually recover to end, but you have some serious work to do before she should feel safe at all around you. Therapy and anger management are probably a minimum. I don't even really know what to suggest to someone who threatens to murder his wife in front of their own children.

My wife left me, it sucks, I know. But you need to take the medicine for a bit and let it settle. You are out of control right now.

I'm serious this time. I was never really serious before and did the bare minimum.

I didn't know anything about marriage builders, that is true. I mentioned I started reading, because after calming down from her note, and after having called everywhere, I decided to go ahead and actually look at the books for the first time, and look at her emotional needs list which I had never looked at before, and actually fill it out my part, which I had refused to do before.

Do you know my wive's thread's title, or new display name?

Words.


Actions like this show you to be not serious.

Wait a second, I broke into my own house, the one I am paying for.

All the things I said were out of place and out of anger, and obviously not true. I can't believe she would even believe so. I shouldn't have said so, but I did, but those were only words, nothing true.

So stop doing the bare minimum. Are you going to do the things markos said needs to be done?

You're past the point of filling out forms now. Anybody can fill out a form. You need to be taking more serious actions.

Words of a man who does not want to protect his wife. All I see from you is justification for your behavior instead of a desire to change.

More proof that you aren't serious.


You don't have CLUE NUMBER ONE what Marriage Builders says about anger.

Dr. Harley told my wife that no marital problems could be solved until I had eliminated ALL angry outbursts. He was right.


It's still not okay! Quit trying to tell her that it's okay because you didn't mean it.

It's not okay - angry outbursts are not okay. You are a seriously dangerous, abusive husband, until you have demonstrated that you can prevent angry outbursts FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

The idea that you would ask anyone to help you get in contact with your wife today is ridiculous proof that you DO NOT GET how serious this is and how long it's going to be before you can be trusted, and that you are not serious and don't intend to do anything about it.

You could be listening to Marriage Builders Radio right now instead of wasting our time.

Markos was also paying for the house I kicked him out of. He never said such a thing, and CERTAINLY never broke back in. He went out of his way to make me safe.

You, sir, are dangerous. And you are going to have to do some serious work if you ever desire to win her back. Are you going to do the things markos said needs to be done?

That means there should be a restraining order against you, right?

Right?

Wouldn't you agree that if a wife's husband has angry outbursts and she locks him out and he breaks in, that she should get a restraining order to keep him out?

Isn't that right?

Stop freaking out. I don't know what your wife wrote you but I doubt it was "you and I are done forever no second chances". She was very reluctant to leave you.

You have a chance to fix this here and if you're actually reading the MB books you even have a set of instructions for HOW to fix this. Change into the type of husband the books describe and she will come back to you.

No quick fixes to this, ProChoice. You can't fix something like this in a day.

My wife cheated on me, lied to me about it, told horrible lies about me to her family, and filed a restraining order against me simply for doing what was required to uncover her affair.

I never threatened to kill her.

Some words (like threats to murder someone) have consequences. It's not "just words" when you threaten to kill your spouse. It's called assault.

You are very lucky you are not in jail right now. You can't say things like that.

You threaten your wife in front of your children and you can't believe she would believe you would harm her (especially on top of all the other stupidity you have displayed)? WTF is wrong with you??

As a BS, I can understand your anger and hurt over your wife's affair but you need to GET A GRIP!! There is no excuse for your behavior...Dday is not new to you either. Breaking into the house was another stupid move. If you aren't serious about recovery which entails you not being an abusive ahole towards your wife, then file for D and be done with it.

Oh, sure! We'll give that to you!

You bully her to the point where she locks you out of the house, and then you frighten her by breaking back in - and worse, by threatening to kill her. You say many, terrifying, sinister things, and you act like a psychopath, and enjoy seeing her terror. You know that we told her to leave for her own safety, and you think you can come here and ask for her new identity and we'll give it to you? Are you insane?

You are coming across as a dangerous, sinister, vindictive, bullying husband -the kinds that wheedles his way systematically around his frightened wife's friends, telling them that he did nothing wrong and he only wants to speak to her, and then when he finds his wife, he hurts her.

You need to be put in jail for what you did, and you need a permanent restraining order against you. You are unstable and you need treatment.

Leave your wife alone.

Why did I ever think I could get help here?

I am getting her back, I will win her heart, will be a great husband, I will start changing, I will do anger management, I will prove to her I am different, and I won't give any credit to this unhelpful forum. I had seriously come for help.

If you want to win your wife back, you will listen to the hard advice you are being given instead of throwing a fit and leaving.

Why are you upset when you say you want to change, and we are telling you how to change?

The help you were looking for today was your wife's new identity. You were looking for a way to get the wife that you THREATENED back, on your terms. You want her back NOW, regardless of how frightened she is. We would never give you help to get her back in that way.

You've been given plenty of Marriage Builders advice on how to overcome your anger problem and how to win your wife back by permanently changing your behaviour. You chose not to listen to it and you are still trying to bypass it and get your wife back today. We're not going to help you abuse her any more.

Stop acting like a big cry baby about how you can't get help from us. You've been given MUCH help.

The only reason he is leaving, Prisca, is because he did not find out his wife's new identity! That was the only thing he came here for today!

Dude we are giving you help if you will take it.

We are giving you an outsider's perspective which you DESPERATELY need right now, and we are giving you insight into how your wife (who is rightfully scared to death) probably feels about you right now. It's to help you understand how serious this is now.

You messed up, big time. It only takes a few words to destroy something when they are the sort of words you chose to use.

If you want to write us all off, good luck to you. I give you a snowball's chance in hell until you start taking this more seriously. The only reason I even took the time to post here is because I'd rather you not wander blindly down the road to divorce (and probably a protective order) which is the road your actions have put you on.

Why don't you call Dr. Harley then? The opinion of this board is obviously not what you were looking for.

ARe you suggesting he will get a different answer from Dr Harley? I know when I am in the wrong, I like to SHOP FOR OPINIONS until I find the desired answer. That is all that is happening here. He doesn't like what he is hearing.

I feel mildly insulted by that. The advice I gave was the advice I've heard Dr Harley give every single time, to a woman who has been threatened and frightened by her husband. The same is true for all posters to this thread. We are not giving our "opinions".

So you'll follow my suggestions, but they didn't help you?

Agree x 1000.

It's a huge that PC isn't asking for advice on how to get his AOs under control.

I'm sorry. I reacted on one poster's harsh opinions with everyone else's helpful insight.

FYI, my wife just texted me, and is happy with me going to therapy and with me reading marriage builders concepts, and she is coming home as soon as I attend therapy and finish that book she left, so excuse me, I have some things to do. She also agreed to meet with me everyday at church until that is over.

I am planning to win her back, read and apply, from this day on, that is not a lie.

What does Dr Harley say about AOs and how to get them under control? Do you know?

I never read the book she gave me before. I haven't gone to therapy yet. I don't know, I just know I will do both things.

It's amazing to me that you don't ASK!

What do you think we are here for??

Big red flags should be going up for your wife.

You can learn right now by reading the articles on this website. The answer is not hard to find.

My ex husband is still paying for my house. Wish he wasn't but he wants to retain a stake in it for when it's sold.

If he BROKE IN I would have the cops and so many male relatives over here. He gets his legal share of the house - he does not get to force himself on my presence by being an intruder. His house - not his home. Any more.



Try this one again. What do you do when infidelity (and I think - if your story is true - that fake out emails and a fake FB affair just to hurt and manipulate might be WORSE than the average infidelity) and AOs forces your wife to separate? Do you a) break in and completely ignore her request or b) get to work on her conditions?



This is very poor reasoning. Words are one of the most effective ways to hurt someone. Even a stranger can be hurtful. It is SO much worse from the person who is supposed to love you.

Choices in order of seriousness are:

a) Telling her not to mind your words (because you're not done inflicting them)
B) Telling her you want to stop using angry words
or
C) SHOW her you are NOT going to inflict any more anger on her by signing up to anger management and being willing to demonstrate 100pc calm over a period of time. WHEN she is ready to see you.

Honestly I think that's amistake for you as much as her. It takes time to cure the level of AO you have. The next one will kill your marriage.

Dr H usually tells husbands like you to date his wife and conquer anger before moving back in.

I sure hope that your wife will not be meeting you anywhere before you have gone through some serious anger management and before Dr. Harley or an another expert has told her that you are not acutely dangerous. And even then, I would not reccommend her to meet you in private.

You are so infinitely entitled, that you have not even begun to understand how abnormal you have become. On the other hand, did your father treat your mother like that, or would you tolerate it, when your daughter's future husband treated her like that?

Why should she believe you when you say you will now finally change? Every drunk wants to stop drinking while puking all over the bathroom. That usually lasts until the next evening.
Your wife yould be wise not to take this sudden change of heart seriously.

She has been laying at your feet for ages and you have only been kicking her down some more. Indeed, sadistic. You have had ample time to change. You have had gazillions of chances to start to even carefully cooperate. If you had wanted to change because you had an actual human heart, you would have changed. Instead you decided to torture her some more.

The only reason she would want to believe you is, that the thought must be abhorrent to have been married to someone with so little ability to be considerate of the feelings of others.

Well done.

Dr Harley wrote this to a woman whose husband used punishment to control and manipulate her feelings:



Now you might be thinking, maybe I'm not as bad as that guy - maybe I can just stop it like that...

But a threat to kill is at the top, very utmost level of abuse seen in marriages. Saying it to the kids is even higher still. When Dr H hears about threats to kill he always recommends separation.

Most angry words directed at spouses aren't illegal - but what you have done is. Threatening to kill someone can get you a criminal charge. It can mean a RO can be filed against you. It can mean your wife has legal course to divorce you - and on the (publicly available) divorce papers it will cite your violent threats as the cause.

If you think that is even remotely OK, if you think it's just words (when the rest of the world knows it is illegal and very scary) - then without doubt you have lots of other, lesser, but still highly abusive habits.

People nearly always 'ramp up' to anger with disrespect and demands. They also believe their spouse causes them to feel bad instead of owning and controlling their own feelings.

I would say that you will do something else that will critically harm your marriage if you moved back in now. Disrespect or phrasing something as a demand at the very least.

And I don't mean to offend you but I would fear for your wife's safety. Domestic violence almost always catches the perpetrator himself by surprise.

Some of the things you claim to have done - like coldly and calculatedly making up an affair to hurt her - are deeply concerning. More so than an actual affair to me. It suggests you view her as a punishment target.

Of course, Dr. Harley will say the same thing, and perhaps that will stop the cascade of drivel.

If this is the truth, I hope your wife is still reading and I hope she demands that you put her in contact with whoever your therapist is, so he doesn't get the "minimize everything" version of the story.

You didn't even bother mentioning that little bit about threatening her life in this thread until we brought it up, AND EVEN THEN you tried to dismiss it as insincere.

I hope your wife comes to realize agreeing to meet with you, even in church, is a huge mistake. You're **EDIT** end game is only to get your wife back into your grasp so that you can control her and beat her down literally and figuratively. In no way would MB sanction her putting her life in danger **EDIT**

You came in here simply because you are no longer in control of your wife, as she discovered she is worthy of more than your manipulative and threatening aggressiveness and your mind tricks.

**EDIT**

I think this is a personal attack, and I've notified on it. It is completely over the top, superfluous and gratuitous.

**EDIT**

My post is no more of a personal attack, no more over the top, etc, than Black Raven's or Axslinger's posts. Frankly, her husband needs to be completely called out by a female poster. As Ax pointed out, how would her husband feel if his daughters were in a similarly abusive relationship, one which threats are treated as running jokes? Her husband needs psychiatric help before she gets hurt and their kids really do become orphans. Marriage Builders would never condone a reconciliation based on manipulation and lip service. The only reason why he's back in here, starting a new thread, is to see if anyone knows of his wife's whereabouts.

All that being said, gleaning from my 12 years of being a military police officer, having been called to numerous domestic abuse calls, one repeat situation ending in homicide, another in homicide-suicide, I called his garbage like I see it. It's reality. Her husband is a ticking time bomb. I'm sorry if you're offended, but it's the truth.

I think its great that you feel so passionately about domestic violence - and that your work tackles it.

**EDIT** You're kind of stomping on your own point...

**EDIT**
No, my work does not "tackle it", which insinuates we head off an altercation before it starts. This isn't Minority Report. It's only when the situation escalates to a point that we are called to a scene. We respond to the situation, not prevent it- prevention, such as telling the victim not to return to his/her abuser (which we have no jurisdiction to do) and telling the abuser to seek help with anger, addiction, etc (again, MPs have no jurisdiction), WOULD be tackling it. There is no "tackling" when the victim refuses to press charges or retracts a statement, or refuses to leave an abusive relationship. In here, however, I am no more than a frustrated member with subject matter experience and common sense calling out a potentially life-threatening abuser. In here, I believe we have a way of "tackling" domestic violence. I've read a number of MB threads posted by police officers whose marriages were falling apart. I'd be interested in their professional take on situations such as Newcase's.

Newcase was proactive in coming to MB to seek advice in saving her marriage, but from everything I've read in their three related threads makes my blood run cold. Their marriage is beyond saving- she needs to save herself and her daughters. Self preservation is a MB principle, correct?

I've read quite a number of MB threads, long before signing up as a member (to be able to comment) and rarely have I ever felt compelled to say much of anything. While MB does a world of good in saving marriages worthy of saving, the forums could also be a place where blunt honesty (backed by facts) should be encouraged- an intervention if you will- especially in obvious abuse cases as such.

**EDIT** She is obviously reaching out for help, offering dark details of her ongoing abuse, but fearful of doing so herself, which is incredibly common.

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Ok.