Wow that's an awful lot of attention you've given to irrelevant stuff. Irrelevant stuff being how she thinks and feels.

Until you get a written and signed NC letter you can consider the A still on. While the A is still on she has no thoughts and feelings.

The stuff about not trusting you not to spy her on her makes me think she still has a yen to contact her AP.

But ask her if she will write an NC letter, change her contact details and move home( where yeah you WILL spy on her). I think she'll say no at this point...

However you're doing great and if she's not actually hissing and spitting - enjoy it. Because she will be soon.

Well, so much for feeling like I've accomplished something. I guess I really just don't get it. I'm dealing with someone who already changed their contact info and won't move.

Eddie,

I think that Indie Girl is saying that until you ensure that contact is ended for life, your recovery isn't possible. And she's right about that.

If she wants to recover her marriage than the first and most important step is for her to end contact for life. She hasn't been able to do that. She keeps grabbing the crack pipe. Have you explained this to her? That is your first order of business. Everytime she sees him, she will be back to square one and any love bank deposits you make will be completely withdrawn.

Let her know that before you can recover she must end contact for life, and this includes her writing a no contact letter.

Here is sample:

"OM,
I want you to know that out of respect and love for my H and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that H did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay H for the pain I have caused him, I will do my best to become the wife he has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely,
Eddie's WW"

You must ensure that he receives the letter and that you witness it being sent off or delivered.


Once contact has ended, you then to spend quality UA time with her. As I wrote in an ealier post, go on a long get-away with her. Make it something fun and not stressful that will enable you to connect.

I'm glad that she agreed to take the emotional needs questionnaire. That will give her some things to work on.

Remember, first things first. Contact must be ended.

Will she write a NC Letter and change all her contact information?

We are not in recovery right now. UA time is not my focus. Plan A is my focus. Getting my wife to emerge from the fog is my focus.

She's already changed her contact information. We've discussed moving a number of times and she is unwilling. I confronted them both, in person, one month ago and we all discussed the importance to both of our families that this affair and all contact needed to end. They both gave me their word that there would be no further contact. Of course I didn't believe them, nor would I believe a piece of paper sent through the mail would prevent them from future contact either. There will always be ways for them to contact one another and a risk they will rekindle the affair, unless we move far away. She will not move, and since I have an 18 month old daughter with WW, I will not leave unless she agrees. End of story.

I have to work plan A and hope that they have both seen there is no real future for their relationship and have decided to rebuild their own families. Plan B is not an option for me, because my wife will not give up my daughter, and legally I cannot take my daughter away. If I leave without them, I risk the courts seeing it as abandonment in any custody proceedings. I cannot force WW to do anything unless I file for divorce. At that point I can start working on getting orders of protection for my daughter and cut off WW financially, but I don't want to do that. I want to save my marriage, and I have seen real signs, real actions on her part, that suggests she wants to do that as well.

I understand that the truth may be that this isn't over, but I have seen more evidence to the contrary.

I respect that there is a step by step process to this recovery, but right now my wife is not a willing participant in any process.

Eddie

Exactly talking about the whys of the affair or how she is feeling is a waste of time and has her focus on the negatives of the marriage.

Work on positives such as getting the questionnaire done, plan A'ing, quietly verifying NC.

Eddie,

One of the things Dr H posted to me on my thread was that demands don't work in marriage, so your current course of perseverance without demands is not a bad one. As was stated previously recover is 2 years minimum.

You do have some things many betrayed spouses never get btw, one being that you mentioned getting full details from emails, this is something I will likely never get from my W and something my W has stated she will never give me.

Dr H post

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2831814&page=53

Gamma

Eddie,

Spending the 15-25 hours of UA Time together Each Week is the essence of Plan A.

By the way, the responses your WW gave to you, although you seem to take them as hopeful, are THE EXACT phrases my WW gave to me.

You are so grateful to see kernels of hope, but it reminds me Too Much of my WW.

LTL

Not at all, I think you're doing great. But it's a marathon, not a sprint and you can't place such close attention on what she says. That will drive you totally nuts because it's all nonsense.

Oh I'm not saying ignore her - say soothing things and nod when she talks. Just don't absorb any crazy yourself.




Nobody's suggesting you Plan B! Keep on at your Plan A - it really is going very well.



See this is why I think you're in danger of burning out. There's nothing YOU can do to get her out of the fog. Any more than your being nice and reasonable could sober her up from drunkenness.

It will happen on its own timescale. You have to just keep pace with it, treat the fog as a given, and wait for the opportunity to arise when you can implement NC properly.

You're doing very well in relation to her, just keep in mind that Plan A is about self care, and pacing yourself too.

Fog:



Gems. The one about not trusting you to look the other way while she has affairs is a doozy. She would not mention, or fear, spying unless she still planned on hiding things from you. Particularly since you never found out how they were communicating and meeting up. I think they are still in some contact, based on this red flag.

I think he's probably reduced her expectations a great deal - told her his family comes first and she plans to exist on crumbs of contact with him and see if she can get you to agree to a roommate type deal.

It could be just withdrawal. The environment may be keeping her triggered. But I don't think so. If you could uncover and squish their method of communication it would benefit the defogging process much more than anything you could say to her.

Recent bouts of anger? Please tell us you are NEVER angry!




Wrong way round. It's continuing unless you have evidence it's NOT. It is an addiction! Don't even get me started on the truthful voice thing. Waywards can weep in genuine remorse before resuming their A.

But the best piece of advice I can give you is don't have long drawn out relationship conversations with your wife. It serves no purpose. I know you are looking for hope but you are scratching the itch instead of applying the medicine.

Joke or flirt with her. Let her talk while you say soothing, admiring things. Ask her about her job or an interest or a topic she finds interesting. That's Plan A. Meet needs with NO expectations.

What you are doing is asking her to predict the future as to when she'll love you and whether she will try to love you.

Yeah she will, but this conversation hasn't helped.

That isn't what you did to woo her first time round is it?

This I think is the non foggy part of her speech and does show the success of your Plan A. So what else is in store for Plan A?

So how did this turn out, who won the competition and who planned the date?

She won, on a tiebreaker. I'm taking her golfing (another "winner plans the next date" setup) and then to a popular country music bar/grill she's always wanted to visit. I also have several other dates planned that she's agreed too. A play, mini-golf/batting cages, dinner at her favorite restaurant from our honeymoon. I've given up my weekly golf league so that we can golf together instead on that day. We also start playing softball together in a few weeks.


She told me she's been thinking we should take a weekend away soon, but she's just not ready to leave our daughter for an entire weekend, and is still a little apprehensive that it will be uncomfortable. I said we should do it, and just not have any expectations other than to have a relaxing and enjoyable time. I hope she decides soon that it's a good idea.

Other than that, I just continue to compliment and admire her every day, be available to her when we are at home, leave love notes and small tokens of my affection regularly, and engage her in pleasant conversation listening more than talking, whenever I can.

It's difficult to keep this up, but I am finding ways to succeed at it. It is most difficult when I am not around her or alone and have time to think. A significant part of me is still furious with my decision to save this marriage, and I am still regularly haunted by mental images of the two of them together. I am battling myself right now, more than anything else.

Eddie

Sounds like you are making progress and it sounds like she is responding so keep up the good work.

I think you hit the key thing with �I am battling myself right now, more than anything else.�. Win that battle my friend and you win this race. Instead of being furious about your decision to save the marriage you should be proud of it, embrace it. It would have been easy to walk away and instead you choose the harder and more rewarding path. I too struggled with mental images of my wife with the OM, but every time they crept into my brain I replaced them with a recent happy image of me and wife together. Keep your focus on the here and now and not the past, that is what has helped me push those thoughts from my brain.

I have no comparable recent happy images of my wife to replace the images of her and OM. The woman won't even hold my hand. These images used to sadden me. The anti depressants have helped with sadness, but not with anger. Now, they infuriate me. I've never been an angry or violent person, but I find that when I am alone I am frequently very angry.

This plan seems to have plenty of solutions to help the offending spouse heal, but absolutely nothing for the betrayed spouse to heal or cope, except "sucks to be you, deal with it and make her happy even if she doesn't want you to".

I grow weary of that answer, and the incredibly slow pace of this progress. Every day I question why I bother trying to love someone who doesn't want my love. I feel like I'm doing Plan A because I'm supposed to, not because I want to.

It's a frustrating and unhappy life I am living right now. I don't much care for it.

Eddy.

You have a long hard road. Yes you are in a pride swallowing, kick in the gut everyday time in your life.

There are limits to what anyone can put up with, but you are still in very early phases.

Keep your head in the game for awhile longer.

I will. I know this is the right road. The angry road will not lead to any long term gratification. This road may not either, but at least there is a chance it will.

I question whether I would be choosing this route if we didn't have a young daughter, but I guess that question is purely rhetorical, because we do.

Actually, this plan does offer hope for the betrayed spouse. Either you will enter recovery, in which case your WW will give you just compensation for her betrayal, or you will move on to a personal recovery. Either way, you will be happier in the end.

You are free to end Plan A and divorce her right now if that is what you want to do. But if you want to recover your marriage to something better than it ever was, this is the plan that works.

You might want to see your doctor about having them adjusted. They should help to even out the emotional highs and lows.

Eddie, have you re-listened to your radio show since you were on? I would suggest re-listening to it on a daily basis. Are you also listening to the daily show broadcasts?