What remains to be done from this list?

Do you have a GPS on his car?

And I sure hope he doesn't know about any of your snooping techniques or he'll just work around it.

I am not going to yell at you but I am going to say that you should leave him. WH has already told you in plain English that he wants to "experience other women." He can backpeddal all he wants, but that is the mentality you are dealing with. That he failed the poly...I'm sure he already has done more "experiencing" that he will admit but doesn't want to look like more of a dog.

You should follow through on going into Plan B. Your WH is lying and will continue to lie because you stick around and are willing to twist your brain into a pretzel to try and come up with a plausible explanation as to why he didn't pass the poly, or how he must be telling the truth because he swears up and down, etc.. He WILL wear you down and you are already pretty worn down.

WH could have gotten lap dances at the strip club too. After re-reading your first post...that OW2 had a childhood crush on him, he had opportunity to have sex with her long before he admits to sleeping with her. That they share ILYs and spoke of running off together, I believe this affair started long before two weeks ago and there has been sex more than the one night he admits too. The month you were gone, he had opportunity to have sex with more women vs just going to a strip club. Given his swinger mentality that he needs to have sex with other women, you need to be realistic about what is going on here. Stop letting him gaslight you and tell him to prepare to move out because you know he is lying. He will likely barf up some more stuff offering you crumbs but I would still have him move out. I do not see any other way here. He will just keep lying and sucking the life out of you if you let him. Expose his failed poly to your family and get the support you need.

Prayers to you SN.

WSs claim they are "protecting" their BSs from more hurt if more truth comes out. This dynamic is common and the norm. BSs can literally beg for the truth and even promise they won't leave if the full truth is given and the WS will still lie. It is maddening. You need to clearly understand that you are not dealing with a rational person nor an honorable one. He will lie...period.

We have even had WSs come on this Forum and lie to posters. My own then WH did this. Trickle truth will crush you. Believe me, I lived it. Others have too. I didn't know of MB until three months post D-Day. If I had, I would have listened to those with experience.

Bingo. This is a trusty old standby for him, it's a habit. It's how he fixes problems caused by his own misbehavior.

He isn't telling more because he's scared you would leave him if he did.

Black Raven, I hear you.
I'm going to wrap my head around it all today. He will be at work from 11-4, so during that time I will have some space to just get lost in my head and contemplate/plan Plan B.


SusieQ,
That is really interesting. The idea that he knew he would fail the polygraph and therefore set it up this way.


As far as that list:

Things that remain are getting his phone number changed and GPS set up on it. I am going to let him keep the smart phone just so I can put a keylogger and GPS on it. I feel safer than that than him having a dumb phone that I can't track. I know this should have been done days ago. It is happening today. No question.

The other affair has not been widely exposed yet. And the polygraph now needs to be exposed as well.


Other than those two, the rest of that list is complete.



I told him he needs to post on here, in his own thread. I know that isn't POJA, but does it count as an EP? He said he would do it.
(Please do not think I expect him to come on here and sway you all into seeing how amazing his is and change your minds about Plan B. That is not it at all. I just want as much help as possible.)

Thank you for your prayers. Please give us as many as you can give.

You don't POJA with a WS when it comes to exposure and EPs. Radical Honesty about your snooping methods and possible separation also do not apply either. If you have already told him about MB he will know about the GPS and keylogger. Bringing an active WS here is usually not a good idea. Did you tell him your username too?

Silent - it was perfectly obvious to me from the threesome story that your husband has been wayward for some time and planned to gaslight you into accepting an open marriage.

Most of us here knew he hadn't told you the whole story yet. There's no way someone with that attitude has only had two OW. I was hoping he'd have more revelations BEFORE the poly - so he could pass it. But I was expecting him to try and dodge it.

He didn't cough up any more details but sat the poly anyway. So I have to agree with Susie - he knew he would fail and thought he could just gaslight you into accepting that. He has had success with gaslighting you in the past. Just think how he got you to agree to the threesome.

I've seen other examples of failed 'I don't know what happened' polygraphs on here and in every case it was a serial cheater hiding stuff like online accounts and regular trawling for women online and in RL. Stuff they had no intention of giving up.

If he was inncoent he'd be asking the polygrapher what could have gone wrong and how to resit it and pass. But he won't do that - he's failed far too many questions for it to be an anomaly.

I think you should go into Plan B and contact Dr Harley about what (if any) conditions you should set for recovery. I don't know how he could at this point prove he is serious enough to get you out of a Plan B.

Unless you had a keylogger on all of his devices, then YES it is naive to believe that you think you know whether he was looking at porn.

And as we know now, he admitted porn use to you that he lied about.

You should assume he has been lying about ALL porn use during the course of your M unless you were watching him via keylogger.

First you didn't address my comment about hoping that your WH doesn't know about your snooping. He doesn't know that you plan to monitor his phone, computer/devices and put GPS on his car, right??

Second, it hasn't escaped my notice (and this is what I suspected your WH was banking on) that you keep going back on things that you say you are going to do. For instance you said your WH was getting a dumb phone and now you are going back on it. You said you would have x, y and z done "definitely today" days ago. You said you would be going to Plan B if your WH failed the poly.

I would recommend you start making a practice of following through on what you say (boundaries) with your WH. He is counting on you not following through. It would be better for you to NOT make these declarations than say something and then not follow through.

Third, has everything on the list been completed?

I think you are making a big mistake with the dumb phone and I suspect your WH had something to do with that change....

No, it's not really interesting at all. What is interesting that he inexplicably remembered two "crumbs" after he failed the test.

A serial cheater with a history of a SSL has many secrets to tell - not only do they believe lying is morally and ethically OK, but it becomes a bad habit that is hard to break.

You should not believe anything that comes out of this man's mouth unless you can verify it. Until a period of time that he has demonstrated that he has given up his SSL and IB and is going to attempt to POJA everything with you.

You don't seem to realize that a person like your WH will have to make DRAMATIC changes in his habits and lifestyle to accomplish this. It does not happen miraculously overnight and it is not an ACCIDENT that he failed his poly.

It's likely that your WH is making big lovebank deposits and saying an awful lot of things to make you feel really good about things and it would be a mistake to allow yourself to get distracted from the facts:
[He is a serial cheater, he has been gaslighting and lying to you for a long period of time, he has demonstrated that he doesn't believe in using extraordinary care or protection in marriage, he has very recently engage in marriage wrecking and cruel behavior, etc).

I want to point out throughout the course of this thread, your INSTINCTS for your WH were:
~ He was using extraordinary care in the M
~ He was not lying about his porn use
~ Said you weren't sure if the affair had become physical when poster/s told you it was
~ You said you believed he would pass the poly

I know there's more but that's off the top of my head.

I would urge you to set aside your INSTINCTS about your WH because you have been DEAD WRONG time and again.

I've said you are not easy to gaslight - but putting you through a failed poly would send anyone reeling. Of course you want these final crumbs of info to be 'IT'. Your instincts being swayed is pretty natural given that your husband is a master manipulator of instincts. His entire existence is geared towards making women feel special. He knows how to do that with you more than anyone.



These crumbs of 'Oh yeah I forgot about that' simply aren't credible. This is not a guy who needs for you to be away in order to experience porn. You were at home when he had an affair!

As for his friends sending him porn... good grief. They won't do that unless he is into it and they have a pretty weird friendship set up. This just smacks to me of teenage style lying from an equally guilty party. "That's not my baggie of weed, Mum. It's Kevin's - he made me!" Yeah even if it is Kevin's - that's only because Kevin has yours.




I've been suspicious of this guy from the get-go. There's no way he innocently invited your H to come hang out with his porn-star cousin unknowingly. Men friends don't hang out with their kid cousin. Then he didn't notice the way they must have been interacting under his nose? He also encourages your H to have a very single style social life. I don't like this guy one bit.



Given that his friends seem to have a lot to do with his SSL and they know porn stars, I think he has a circle of enablers around him who very possibly swing themselves.




I really feel that he is trying to drive the bus here. Sending you a picture of where he is will not prevent anything. That still leaves an awful lot of time to do whatever he wants. He should be home anyway.

Same thing as the 'where can I find a support group of cheating men' - which he probably already has in the form of his friends. I don't think he wants to lose you, but he is definitely still looking for some wiggle room to 'experience other women'.

I know Dr H has successfully healed marriages with serial cheaters but it's tough. I would get in touch with him for his advice.

I would also get spyware all over this situation.

The problem is not the friend/s. You have said the friends who had a role to play in this marriage wrecking behavior are gone as part of the EPs. That's a good move, and I think that would be a distraction at this point to discuss the friends any further.

The problem is your WH, his SSL (and failed poly) and serial cheating ways. I would invite you to read up on the dishonesty articles and listen to the radio clips on serial cheaters.

Any update, SN?

Hey sorry for lack of updates. Took a few days to try to get my head to try to think about things. MB is such a great resource, but at times I just feel bombarded with information.

I'm going to try to answer any outstanding questions:



He knew I was utilizing MB as soon as exposure hit. I had mused to him about the intensity of exposure 6 months ago when I first learned about it. Long before I ever thought I would end up using it! He does not know my username, but I imagine it wouldn't hard to figure out this thread is me if he went looking.



He did do this. The examiner told us that it may have been too soon and we could come back in several weeks. Husband wants to try it again.


No he doesn't-- unless he has found this thread.


I don't think this is fair to say. I have gotten a lot done. Nothing that didn't get done the day I planned for it to has been influenced by him at all, simply timing. The dumb phone was never an issue with him, I just wanted a device that I could keylog and track via GPS. To me that made a smart phone the better option.

And I said I would probably go into Plan B. While I know that is mincing words, I don't feel like I am betraying what I said.

He has no reason not to expect me to do what I say I will do. Everything on that list has been done by this point.


The people in his life are a huge problem. He was raised with two father figures who are huge womanizers. He grew up with half naked women on the walls of his father's house. His main father figure was very supportive of ME during this past week when the affair came out. He has loyalty to marriage and does not condone cheating once married. HOWEVER, this same father-in-law lost his mind over husband having to change his phone number as a result of the affair. Father-in-law said I was making husband less of a man and might as well castrate him. Husband stood up for me and the act of changing the number. Not saying that counts for anything, just stating that it happened. His other father figure supported him during exposure, saying something the effect of "you are a man, you sleep with whomever you want and is willing."
Many of his friends aren't much better, although several of those relationships have been closed down this week- so yes, that might be a mute point.


This is done.



=
So currently we are not in Plan B. Plan B is still an option to me. But I guess I don't understand what to do with Plan B right now. We would do Plan B until what? I understand if he was still having an active affair, we would wait until the affair was over and he demonstrated he was willing to work on the marriage.

So right now, with the affair already over (and remember I'm monitoring everything, so I know there has been no contact over phone or computer), what happens in Plan B?

And what if he is telling the truth? Do we Plan B until we retake the poly in a few weeks?

I guess I am trying to see the benefit of Plan B right now. Yes, he failed the poly. That is a red flag. However, there is a chance there is no other new information besides the bread crumbs. He has completed the checklist in total. He is being monitored strictly. He has ended friendships with lifelong friends. Is this not a demonstration of commitment to working on things? He has done these things entirely my way.

I never expected things to go back to normal or recover quickly, nor would I want them to. Right now I am struggling to think I will ever feel safe with him or even feel in love with him again. I am not being swayed by him making my feel special, because he can't right now. Anything he says or does, does not hit me in the heart and make me feel special, it hurts and reminds of how wrong everything feels right now.

I have heard you all telling me again and again to not trust him. I hear you, I really do. I do not trust him. I do not trust him to be honest, I do not trust him not to hurt me, I do not trust him to not take advantage. But I am trying to operate with care and not blindly follow any next steps that do not logically make sense to me right now. I get that my instincts may totally suck. Beating it into me that I am naive or wrong about everything, does not help me see the big picture or find my footing. In the end, I want a wonderful marriage. I want to be treasured. I want to respect and love an honorable husband. That is my goal and where I have my eyes set. I do not want to be BS-ed or fall into a subpar relationship that is just barely *good enough* to handle for the sake my child-- which is what my parents did. The last thing I want is to fall into a fake recovery and go through this again one day. I am honestly trying to see the situation for what it is, without an gaslighting blocking my view.

I like the idea of talking to Dr. H. Maybe that is my next step for right now.

Doesn't change my advice/comments and I think you missed the point because of your defensiveness.

Your WH didn't take the poly seriously. Period. You came here and told us you BELIEVED your WH was telling the truth when it is apparent to all of us that he's playing games with you. I pointed out all the other times you stuck up for him because I was making a specific point. I was not "slamming" you for no good reason.

Sorry, but I am not going to pat a BW on the back when she's standing on the tracks about to get hit again.

Your WH doesn't need a smart phone. That is going to backfire on you.

Again, focusing on his friends and "father figures" is a huge distraction and waste of time. Yes he should get rid of them but they are not the problem.

Take my advice or discard it. It's your marriage.

Nobody is trying to beat anything into you or tell you that you are wrong about everything. But many of us have been on these boards, listening to these stories for YEARS and therefore, in addition to Dr. Harley's program, you are dealing with people who have instincts and knowledge based on the experience of seeing the same story replay over and over again.

In the 5 years I have been reading the MB SA forum, I cannot recall one time where a WH has failed a poly, and the BS stayed in the marriage and no further information has come out and they are now happily recovered. Not once. I can recall many many stories where the poly was failed and later, the BS found out about new A's or additional information, and it was like a whole new D-day. The realization that you have been working hard toward recovery based on more lies can be MORE devastating that the initial D-day.

You have taken some very good steps, and I applaud you for that. But nobody wants to see you suffer a false recovery and get hit by the train again.

If you intend to not go into Plan B, then *please* have your H retake the poly in a couple of weeks (since you seem convinced that a reason he may fail is timing, which I have never heard of). And plan for what you will do if he fails AGAIN. Failing a poly when you really are telling the truth is hard to do, I doubt he could do it twice in a row, right? Just don't let this poly thing slide under the rug, you are way too smart for that.

Hon, I've posted to you twice now that recovery is a very narrow road, and any deviation from the path will land you in disaster -- a false recovery with a serial cheater.

You are deviating from the path, and allowing yourself to get distracted and gaslighted. This is not going to end well for you.

Considering that SusieQ has been right where you are with a serial cheating husband, I'd listen to her if I were in your shoes. Recovery is hard. Recovery with a serial cheater is even harder. You don't HAVE TIME to allow for distractions.

Several weeks is not a safe timescale for you, you'll damage your health. Three weeks is the most you should be in any kind of limbo.

It's just not credible that he forgot to mention that stuff to a polygrapher about to ask him about his SSL. Nor is the stuff he told you - blaming his friends for enforcing porn on him - credible either. Sorry but a serial cheat is MORE than happy to give up the A (plenty more fish) the struggle is getting them to come clean about their SSL.

It's not credible and he failed that poly on purpose.

Even if he were to 'get it' at the 11th hour before the next poly (they all wait until there's no alternative) or when you kicked him out for failing - you'd be ill and have several weeks of FR resentment to pile onto your recovery mountain.



Why not email him?

My questions about Plan B still stand.

What are the conditions for it? Until more truth come out?

Until ALL truth comes out!

If you don't know how he conducted affairs or who/where the OW was you can't build EPs. If you hadn't caught this one the OW would still be linked to you.


I would ask Dr Hs opinion on the nature of a separation and conditions for recovery. Your H is very committed to his SSL and I would get the best advice before committing to recovery.