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#2854761 05/21/15 08:01 AM
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Long story so you understand the background.

My wife and I have been married going on 27 years. We met in the Philippines while in the Air Force and we "dated" for a month before she left on another assignment stateside. We wrote and talked from October to December almost every day. By the middle of December, we were planning a wedding for January when I came home on leave. The wedding was beautiful and we were ecstatic. After almost a month, I had to return to the Philippines. At 6 months, she visited me in the PI and we conceived our first child. She got out and went to her mom's place. At the 14 month mark, I transferred back to the states and we moved to Illinois where we had two children.

Just after the birth of our second child, I separated from military service and we moved to my hometown in Texas. She returned to school and I went to work. This went until about 3 1/2 years when I got an opportunity to return to military service. We did, and had our third child.

Fast forward to 2004.

A couple years after our last move, she was unhappy because she felt that I wasn't treating her with respect. She felt belittled by me and was tired of it. She asked for a "separation". This separation consisted of her having me move out, sign a 1 yr lease for an apartment, contacting a lawyer, giving up her wedding ring as retainer, and presenting me with divorce papers. I signed them and moved on with my life. She never filed them and about a couple of weeks later begged me to reconcile. I hesitated, but agreed. We entered counseling and our communication got better.

I have been battling major depression with anxiety for years and have had difficulty dealing with our young children during their "rebellious" stages. My outbursts caused many problems both with the kids and with her. Adding to that, my doctors were constantly changing my depression medication to find a combination that worked. In 2010, things got weird.

The best way to describe it was that I fell into a fog. I don't remember much from that time. I know that I reconnected with an old girlfriend (not an affiar) and she questioned whether or not I was truly happy in my marriage. after our talks, she was convinced that I was giving up my own identity to keep my wife happy. I rolled with this and made a decision to separate by moving out of the house into our travel trailer to get my head together and find out if I could find my backbone. The day I was supposed to move, she found me almost catatonic sitting on the front porch. Needless to say, I didn't move out. We went back to counseling and things began to get better.

Here's where today's problem picked up its momentum. From that time in 2010 until about 6 months ago, I remained in the "fog" in one fashion or another. We were like roommates. My sex drive went to zero. We still hugged and kissed, but there was no real intimacy. My job was stressful and my fog was real. I coasted for almost 5 years.

In November 14, I got out from under my stressful job and my doctor finally found a medicine combination that brought me out of the fog. I was back. This is when I realized that she wasn't welcoming me back. She was hurt. She was very damaged. The prior year was very hard on her.....stressful job, father died, aunt died, uncle died, our youngest graduates this summer. She has withdrawn. I tried to get her to talk but all she could say was that she was deeply hurt by my "fog" and she had to sort out her feelings.

Three weeks ago, we were in an emotional discussion when I asked her what she wanted from me. What did she need to be happy. At that point, she said she wanted a separation. She would pack and move out....but not until after our youngest graduated and went off to college (@August). This hit me like a ton of bricks. I knew she was unhappy, but I guess I never allowed myself to see this coming.

In the three weeks and 4 days since, she and I have talked a little. To describe my behavior....I am begging for forgiveness. I asked for counseling again....she declined. She says she doesn't know what she wants to do now...that she needs to sort out her feelings. She tells me not to push the issue or I "won't like the outcome". My last suggestion to her was that this Friday was a month since she dropped the separation bomb. I felt that was quite enough time to decide whether or not she "wanted" this to work out. Whether or not it would work out would be seen later. I needed to know that she would put one foot in front of the other on the reconciliation trail. She won't make that decision (or she has and won't tell me).

My friends have told me to take the affirmative step and draw up the papers. Basically, to tell her to "[censored] or get off the pot".

I love my wife and will do whatever it takes to keep our marriage alive. Am I being foolish?

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Dr. Harley developed a plan which can restore romantic love to your marriage.
Are either of you having an affair?
Are you still talking to the old girlfriend?

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Originally Posted by Scotty
Long story so you understand the background.

My wife and I have been married going on 27 years. We met in the Philippines while in the Air Force and we "dated" for a month before she left on another assignment stateside. We wrote and talked from October to December almost every day. By the middle of December, we were planning a wedding for January when I came home on leave. The wedding was beautiful and we were ecstatic. After almost a month, I had to return to the Philippines. At 6 months, she visited me in the PI and we conceived our first child. She got out and went to her mom's place. At the 14 month mark, I transferred back to the states and we moved to Illinois where we had two children.

Just after the birth of our second child, I separated from military service and we moved to my hometown in Texas. She returned to school and I went to work. This went until about 3 1/2 years when I got an opportunity to return to military service. We did, and had our third child.

Fast forward to 2004.

A couple years after our last move, she was unhappy because she felt that I wasn't treating her with respect. She felt belittled by me and was tired of it. She asked for a "separation". This separation consisted of her having me move out, sign a 1 yr lease for an apartment, contacting a lawyer, giving up her wedding ring as retainer, and presenting me with divorce papers. I signed them and moved on with my life. She never filed them and about a couple of weeks later begged me to reconcile. I hesitated, but agreed. We entered counseling and our communication got better.

I have been battling major depression with anxiety for years and have had difficulty dealing with our young children during their "rebellious" stages. My outbursts caused many problems both with the kids and with her. Adding to that, my doctors were constantly changing my depression medication to find a combination that worked. In 2010, things got weird.

The best way to describe it was that I fell into a fog. I don't remember much from that time. I know that I reconnected with an old girlfriend (not an affiar) and she questioned whether or not I was truly happy in my marriage. after our talks, she was convinced that I was giving up my own identity to keep my wife happy. I rolled with this and made a decision to separate by moving out of the house into our travel trailer to get my head together and find out if I could find my backbone. The day I was supposed to move, she found me almost catatonic sitting on the front porch. Needless to say, I didn't move out. We went back to counseling and things began to get better.

Here's where today's problem picked up its momentum. From that time in 2010 until about 6 months ago, I remained in the "fog" in one fashion or another. We were like roommates. My sex drive went to zero. We still hugged and kissed, but there was no real intimacy. My job was stressful and my fog was real. I coasted for almost 5 years.

In November 14, I got out from under my stressful job and my doctor finally found a medicine combination that brought me out of the fog. I was back. This is when I realized that she wasn't welcoming me back. She was hurt. She was very damaged. The prior year was very hard on her.....stressful job, father died, aunt died, uncle died, our youngest graduates this summer. She has withdrawn. I tried to get her to talk but all she could say was that she was deeply hurt by my "fog" and she had to sort out her feelings.

Three weeks ago, we were in an emotional discussion when I asked her what she wanted from me. What did she need to be happy. At that point, she said she wanted a separation. She would pack and move out....but not until after our youngest graduated and went off to college (@August). This hit me like a ton of bricks. I knew she was unhappy, but I guess I never allowed myself to see this coming.

In the three weeks and 4 days since, she and I have talked a little. To describe my behavior....I am begging for forgiveness. I asked for counseling again....she declined. She says she doesn't know what she wants to do now...that she needs to sort out her feelings. She tells me not to push the issue or I "won't like the outcome". My last suggestion to her was that this Friday was a month since she dropped the separation bomb. I felt that was quite enough time to decide whether or not she "wanted" this to work out. Whether or not it would work out would be seen later. I needed to know that she would put one foot in front of the other on the reconciliation trail. She won't make that decision (or she has and won't tell me).

My friends have told me to take the affirmative step and draw up the papers. Basically, to tell her to "[censored] or get off the pot".

I love my wife and will do whatever it takes to keep our marriage alive. Am I being foolish
?
Welcome to MB.

Yes, you are being very foolish if you want your wife back and then issue an ultimatum that she needs to make up her mind, because one month for you in this limbo is long enough.

If it IS really long enough for you, then go ahead and issue your ultimatum, and be prepared for her to say that the marriage is over. You haven't spent nearly enough time wooing your wife and winning her back, and making her fall in love with you again, so if you want her to decide right now, based on her feelings right now, she will decide to divorce you.

If you want this marriage much more than you want to be divorced, then you need to woo your wife, just as you did when you were dating her and got her to fall in love with you. She agreed to marry you then because she was in love with you. YOU might think that, now she is married, she needs to honour that commitment whether she is in love or not, but, from what you have said here, that is not how SHE feels. She does not want to be in this marriage as it is, because of the way you have behaved towards her. You need to show long-term, consistent behavioural change in order for her to want to go back to you.

What is the reason you feel that one month is long enough? What are your plans for moving on? You certainly seem to have one and a half feet out of the door.


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Scotty Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Dr. Harley developed a plan which can restore romantic love to your marriage.
Are either of you having an affair?
Are you still talking to the old girlfriend?

No affairs
Haven't talked to that lady in 5 years...don't plan to.

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by Scotty
Long story so you understand the background.

My wife and I have been married going on 27 years. We met in the Philippines while in the Air Force and we "dated" for a month before she left on another assignment stateside. We wrote and talked from October to December almost every day. By the middle of December, we were planning a wedding for January when I came home on leave. The wedding was beautiful and we were ecstatic. After almost a month, I had to return to the Philippines. At 6 months, she visited me in the PI and we conceived our first child. She got out and went to her mom's place. At the 14 month mark, I transferred back to the states and we moved to Illinois where we had two children.

Just after the birth of our second child, I separated from military service and we moved to my hometown in Texas. She returned to school and I went to work. This went until about 3 1/2 years when I got an opportunity to return to military service. We did, and had our third child.

Fast forward to 2004.

A couple years after our last move, she was unhappy because she felt that I wasn't treating her with respect. She felt belittled by me and was tired of it. She asked for a "separation". This separation consisted of her having me move out, sign a 1 yr lease for an apartment, contacting a lawyer, giving up her wedding ring as retainer, and presenting me with divorce papers. I signed them and moved on with my life. She never filed them and about a couple of weeks later begged me to reconcile. I hesitated, but agreed. We entered counseling and our communication got better.

I have been battling major depression with anxiety for years and have had difficulty dealing with our young children during their "rebellious" stages. My outbursts caused many problems both with the kids and with her. Adding to that, my doctors were constantly changing my depression medication to find a combination that worked. In 2010, things got weird.

The best way to describe it was that I fell into a fog. I don't remember much from that time. I know that I reconnected with an old girlfriend (not an affiar) and she questioned whether or not I was truly happy in my marriage. after our talks, she was convinced that I was giving up my own identity to keep my wife happy. I rolled with this and made a decision to separate by moving out of the house into our travel trailer to get my head together and find out if I could find my backbone. The day I was supposed to move, she found me almost catatonic sitting on the front porch. Needless to say, I didn't move out. We went back to counseling and things began to get better.

Here's where today's problem picked up its momentum. From that time in 2010 until about 6 months ago, I remained in the "fog" in one fashion or another. We were like roommates. My sex drive went to zero. We still hugged and kissed, but there was no real intimacy. My job was stressful and my fog was real. I coasted for almost 5 years.

In November 14, I got out from under my stressful job and my doctor finally found a medicine combination that brought me out of the fog. I was back. This is when I realized that she wasn't welcoming me back. She was hurt. She was very damaged. The prior year was very hard on her.....stressful job, father died, aunt died, uncle died, our youngest graduates this summer. She has withdrawn. I tried to get her to talk but all she could say was that she was deeply hurt by my "fog" and she had to sort out her feelings.

Three weeks ago, we were in an emotional discussion when I asked her what she wanted from me. What did she need to be happy. At that point, she said she wanted a separation. She would pack and move out....but not until after our youngest graduated and went off to college (@August). This hit me like a ton of bricks. I knew she was unhappy, but I guess I never allowed myself to see this coming.

In the three weeks and 4 days since, she and I have talked a little. To describe my behavior....I am begging for forgiveness. I asked for counseling again....she declined. She says she doesn't know what she wants to do now...that she needs to sort out her feelings. She tells me not to push the issue or I "won't like the outcome". My last suggestion to her was that this Friday was a month since she dropped the separation bomb. I felt that was quite enough time to decide whether or not she "wanted" this to work out. Whether or not it would work out would be seen later. I needed to know that she would put one foot in front of the other on the reconciliation trail. She won't make that decision (or she has and won't tell me).

My friends have told me to take the affirmative step and draw up the papers. Basically, to tell her to "[censored] or get off the pot".

I love my wife and will do whatever it takes to keep our marriage alive. Am I being foolish
?
Welcome to MB.

Yes, you are being very foolish if you want your wife back and then issue an ultimatum that she needs to make up her mind, because one month for you in this limbo is long enough.

If it IS really long enough for you, then go ahead and issue your ultimatum, and be prepared for her to say that the marriage is over. You haven't spent nearly enough time wooing your wife and winning her back, and making her fall in love with you again, so if you want her to decide right now, based on her feelings right now, she will decide to divorce you.

If you want this marriage much more than you want to be divorced, then you need to woo your wife, just as you did when you were dating her and got her to fall in love with you. She agreed to marry you then because she was in love with you. YOU might think that, now she is married, she needs to honour that commitment whether she is in love or not, but, from what you have said here, that is not how SHE feels. She does not want to be in this marriage as it is, because of the way you have behaved towards her. You need to show long-term, consistent behavioural change in order for her to want to go back to you.

What is the reason you feel that one month is long enough? What are your plans for moving on? You certainly seem to have one and a half feet out of the door.

You are correct. I have not done things the right way.
I'm not out the door, but have moments where I feel that everything is coming apart around me. Other times, I understand her needs and am willing to give her what she wants.

I appreciate the truth.

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Originally Posted by Scotty
In the three weeks and 4 days since, she and I have talked a little. To describe my behavior....I am begging for forgiveness. I asked for counseling again....she declined. She says she doesn't know what she wants to do now...that she needs to sort out her feelings. She tells me not to push the issue or I "won't like the outcome". My last suggestion to her was that this Friday was a month since she dropped the separation bomb. I felt that was quite enough time to decide whether or not she "wanted" this to work out. Whether or not it would work out would be seen later. I needed to know that she would put one foot in front of the other on the reconciliation trail. She won't make that decision (or she has and won't tell me).

My friends have told me to take the affirmative step and draw up the papers. Basically, to tell her to "[censored] or get off the pot".

I love my wife and will do whatever it takes to keep our marriage alive. Am I being foolish?

Your approach is not the least bit strategic. It is proud, arrogant and most of all: INEFFECTIVE. There is nothing in it that should motivate any sane person to buy what you are selling.

You need to be much more strategic if you want to have a marriage. By that, I mean you had better offer her a happy marriage where you are both happy and in love. If you don't have that for sell, then what is there to stay around for? You have nothing to buy except 27 more years of misery.

I would change your approach entirely. Start being the husband she wants and needs. Start being the husband who makes her happy. STOP being the husband who is depressed, fogged out and has angry outbursts. No woman will be attracted to that. You wnat your wife to stay? Then create a program of attraction and start courting her. Otherwise, she is right to leave.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Go post your exact post on match.com and see how many takers you have. Just see how many women are interested in an angry, depressed, fogged out husband who gives arrogant ultimatums?



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Reconnecting with an old gf for whom you agree with leaving your wife is an affair btw.


Good grief. Do you pal up with anyone else who has a knife for your wife's back?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Reading your replies has been sobering. I decided (thanks to your input, hours of reading, and my gut that I was going to put my fears aside and give her the space she needs. This was Wednesday evening. Since, I've been here, but just outside her bubble. I haven't quit doing the things around the house that I have always done (laundry, cooking, shopping, etc) and left her to her homework (in a masters program) and to her thoughts. It was a little rough Saturday because we had a party and the attendees kept asking me why she was giving me a wide berth. I assured them that they were mistaken and pressed on with the day. In all of it, I never brought the situation up and avoided a couple of topics that could have led to it.

Sunday morning, she brought the subject up. I was shocked. I listened, gave a bit of input, but let her control the situation. It felt good.

Better?

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You have a lot of years of neglect to make up for so I don't think giving her space as your only move is the right move at all. Even if she is asking for it.

By all means let her have her say and her opinions and don't talk over her. I would say don't talk at all about your perspective, draw her out to meet an IC need instead. But in between times you should be finding ways - actions not talking - to meet her needs so she will miss you.

What can you do to make her day special? To showcase the future marriage She can expect? What gestures can you make?

You've courted her once.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Did you ever go No Contact with the ex gf? That will have been noticed if not.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Went NC with her 5 years ago.

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Is that obvious to your wife and are your interactions with others transparent? Few people think to do this and few spouses push for it. Just make sure because doubt could have been eroding her love bank.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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My life is an open book.

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Interesting thing happened last night. First, some background.

When we are at a show or movie, I usually sit with my arm around the back of her chair and gently stroke her shoulder. Of late, she has said this was "pushing" her. I stopped.

Last night we were back in the auditorium for our youngest child's final high school performance. This time, I sat with my hands in my lap.

This is an emotional time for us...last kiddo graduating and leaving the house. As we crawled into bed last night, I offered up my shoulder to lay on. She said "I could have used that earlier".

Someone please tell me how I can respect her wishes and not press for physical contact while still being there for support? My response to her was that I was trying to respect her. I told her that while I wanted to be a shoulder to cry on (and even more), that there were no signals indicating that she would be receptive.

Am I crazy, or am I getting mixed messages here?

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Scotty, she isn't going to have one guiding rule for you to follow in all situations. If you are thinking of offering your shoulder to her, ask her and that way you will get a yes or a no.

If your wife is in withdrawal she will often say no and be quite hostile, as though she doesnt want you to offer. However you have to persevere.

Last edited by indiegirl; 05/30/15 03:40 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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OK, has been a few days but I've been out there. Here's an update. We went to our first counseling (round 4) and the counselor basically told me to back off and give her some room to breathe. while that is hard for me sometimes, I work at it to be compliant.

This past weekend, I was moving some furniture and found a briefcase that I hadn't seen in over 10 years. Inside were letters from her. First, the letter she wrote asking me for a divorce in 2004. The rest were from the same period. The part that ripped me up inside was that her complaints in the 11 year old letters were basically the same as today. I cried over that realization.

I have read all 102 pages of another thread that is similar (kinda) to my situation. In all of this, I have learned that my difficulty complying with her desire for me to back off is not uncommon....just unproductive.

The other morning, I got up early (430) with her and decided to de-clutter a part of our living room. She asked me if I was slipping into a "Manic" phase and I got defensive. I regret that action and have apologized. Having pretty much crawled all over this site, I know that defensiveness is an LB.

I've ordered Love Busters and 5 steps to romantic love. I'm serious about saving our marriage and will do whatever I have to to facilitate that.

I need help. would anyone out there be willing to evaluate my situations and give advice?

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Originally Posted by Scotty
OK, has been a few days but I've been out there. Here's an update. We went to our first counseling (round 4) and the counselor basically told me to back off and give her some room to breathe. while that is hard for me sometimes, I work at it to be compliant.

This past weekend, I was moving some furniture and found a briefcase that I hadn't seen in over 10 years. Inside were letters from her. First, the letter she wrote asking me for a divorce in 2004. The rest were from the same period. The part that ripped me up inside was that her complaints in the 11 year old letters were basically the same as today. I cried over that realization.

I have read all 102 pages of another thread that is similar (kinda) to my situation. In all of this, I have learned that my difficulty complying with her desire for me to back off is not uncommon....just unproductive.

The other morning, I got up early (430) with her and decided to de-clutter a part of our living room. She asked me if I was slipping into a "Manic" phase and I got defensive. I regret that action and have apologized. Having pretty much crawled all over this site, I know that defensiveness is an LB.

I've ordered Love Busters and 5 steps to romantic love. I'm serious about saving our marriage and will do whatever I have to to facilitate that.

I need help. would anyone out there be willing to evaluate my situations and give advice?
i think that, since you are trying to avert a divorce, you shouldn't be in this forum. You should be in MB 101.

Click "notify" and ask a moderator to move your thread there.


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Request submitted.

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
[quote=Scotty]OK, has been a few days but I've been out there. Here's an update. We went to our first counseling (round 4) and the counselor basically told me to back off and give her some room to breathe. while that is hard for me sometimes, I work at it to be compliant.

This past weekend, I was moving some furniture and found a briefcase that I hadn't seen in over 10 years. Inside were letters from her. First, the letter she wrote asking me for a divorce in 2004. The rest were from the same period. The part that ripped me up inside was that her complaints in the 11 year old letters were basically the same as today. I cried over that realization.

I have read all 102 pages of another thread that is similar (kinda) to my situation. In all of this, I have learned that my difficulty complying with her desire for me to back off is not uncommon....just unproductive.

The other morning, I got up early (430) with her and decided to de-clutter a part of our living room. She asked me if I was slipping into a "Manic" phase and I got defensive. I regret that action and have apologized. Having pretty much crawled all over this site, I know that defensiveness is an LB.

I've ordered Love Busters and 5 steps to romantic love. I'm serious about saving our marriage and will do whatever I have to to facilitate that.

I need help. would anyone out there be willing to evaluate my situations and give advice?

We are now in the correct forum, any takers?

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