Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
B
blanca Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
New thread!

After married 3 years (a 1 year old son), I discover my wife has been having 2 affairs, starting barely after we were married. She has been doing this for 10 years with others. She now is diagnosed as a sex addict, and is doing tremendous very hard work in a 12 step group and with an individual counselor; I believe she will recover strong.

That was 6 months ago. Only problem is I got angry. Not throwing dishes angry, but really, we all know words cut deep. So she moved out 6 weeks ago, and filed for divorce! Now I am turning inwards and am very ashamed of how I handled the discovery, and even how I was not a empathetic husband the whole marriage. The only thing I can work on is myself. As is common, my wife filing for divorce was my wake up call.

**here is a key part. She believes (and reinforced by therapists, books) that she now needs to work on establishing boundaries, because lack of boundaries caused her to seek affairs. From my perspective I am getting kicked while I am down, but I am now trying to be supportive (how to support divorce in order to reconcile???)

There are resources (forums, in person groups, etc) for men who cheat, for women who got cheated on, and for people who are losing marriages. But there are NO resources for men whose wives are sex addicts, and not much for anyone who gets cheated on then dumped but not dumped for another partner. So I am at a loss. I figure much of the divorce-stopping literature applies, such as working on my shortcomings etc.

But here is a specific question: do I do "NC" (no contact") like advocated by Dobson and Marriage Busting, or do I do gentle reminders and "talk charges" (leave a voicemail, leave a card) like advocated by Marriage Fitness??? They seem like opposite strategies but perhaps it is situation specific.

Most recently she filed for divorce last week, and asked me to not contact her except with information about our son, or about the divorce, or during our twice weekly custody handoffs. I tried leaving cards in the diaper bag but even that could work for or against me?

Thoughts?
--Blanca (not my real name of course)

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by blanca
She has been doing this for 10 years with others.

How do you know this?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by blanca
But here is a specific question: do I do "NC" (no contact") like advocated by Dobson and Marriage Busting, or do I do gentle reminders and "talk charges" (leave a voicemail, leave a card) like advocated by Marriage Fitness??? They seem like opposite strategies but perhaps it is situation specific.
Do you want to try Marriage Builders?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
B
blanca Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
yes I guess that is why I am here, to try Marriage Builders. To be honest I haven't yet read too much MB material. I would be going alone because she is obstinate and one foot out the door at the moment... I will read up, but any thoughts are appreciated too!

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,433
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by blanca
She has been doing this for 10 years with others.

How do you know this?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
B
blanca Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
you asked how do I know she is doing this 10 years. I know because she admitted it. She honestly thought it was normal. She has a chain of dozens of relationships, cheating, etc. I know it seems crazy, but I really believe that she thought it was normal, and now she is hellbent on "recovering" , doing everything she can for her addiction. I believe in her. But apparently part of that is her crating new boundaries (like divorcing me), in order to redefine who she is, aka find herself...

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Originally Posted by blanca
you asked how do I know she is doing this 10 years. I know because she admitted it. She honestly thought it was normal. She has a chain of dozens of relationships, cheating, etc. I know it seems crazy, but I really believe that she thought it was normal, and now she is hellbent on "recovering" , doing everything she can for her addiction. I believe in her. But apparently part of that is her crating new boundaries (like divorcing me), in order to redefine who she is, aka find herself...

No. An addict knows that what they are doing is wrong. That is why you recently discovered the affairs. Otherwise she would have told you when you dated, "BTW I like to have sex with lots of different men all the time."
At no time did she think it was normal, unless she is insane.

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Originally Posted by blanca
But here is a specific question: do I do "NC" (no contact") like advocated by Dobson and Marriage Busting, or do I do gentle reminders and "talk charges" (leave a voicemail, leave a card) like advocated by Marriage Fitness??? They seem like opposite strategies but perhaps it is situation specific.

Most recently she filed for divorce last week, and asked me to not contact her except with information about our son, or about the divorce, or during our twice weekly custody handoffs. I tried leaving cards in the diaper bag but even that could work for or against me?

First, regarding Divorce Busting and Dobson: They provide great materials. Harley likes Dobson's writings but has said that if one follows his methods of "tough love" in dealing with affairs it will end in divorce.
I don't know anything about Marriage Fitness.
In order to win a woman back, Dr. Harley would advise "Plan A" which you can read about in his articles on this website. In Plan A you try to meet her needs and avoid any argument or complaining.
Since she moved out and asked you not to contact her, I would assume she is pursuing a relationship with one of her sex partners or another man.
In your case, I would try to find out who she is having sex with. How does she meet these people and how many partners does she have?
What are their backgrounds? Are any criminals? I would be very concerned about having a 1 year old child with a diagnosed sex addict. Won't that place the child in environments with increased risk of molestation?

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
I would advise you to get the book "Surviving an Affair" and start reading it. Here is a checklist from the book:

Quote
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Last edited by Prisca; 08/31/15 12:20 PM.

Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
B
blanca Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
thanks for the above responses. To reply - I truly believe that she didn't know the magnitude of her problem until recently. That is how the disease works. Secondly, I am almost 100% sure she is not having any current partners, she is just very engrossed in her therapy. And third, about that checklist... heck I am on the begging end of things. I can ask for nothing on that list. She is the one divorcing. She doesn't want to talk to me.

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,527
Likes: 9
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,527
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by blanca
But here is a specific question: do I do "NC" (no contact") like advocated by Dobson and Marriage Busting, or do I do gentle reminders and "talk charges" (leave a voicemail, leave a card) like advocated by Marriage Fitness??? They seem like opposite strategies but perhaps it is situation specific.
You mentioned something called "Marriage Busting", and got a reply relating to "Divorce Busting". I think you must have meant DB, since "Marriage Busting" would be against marriage!

I don't know how DB can be said to provide "great materials". The DB approach can be boiled down to "leave the unfaithful spouse alone to conduct their affair; do not expose to ANYBODY, including your family, no matter how supportive they may be, and no matter how desperately you need emotional support, and certainly do not expose to an employer; do not challenge your spouse about the affair or ask her to end it; do not attempt to end the affair by any means; detach and let the affair run its course; find a way to occupy yourself while pretending the affair is not taking place. This is entirely opposed to the MB approach, and if one agrees with MB, then DB materials cannot possibly be described as "great".

So many people come from DB to us having found that the DB approach of detaching and turning a blind eye made the affair more entrenched. The MB approach of exposing is the only thing that can turn the affair around, and women should go to Plan B early, rather than wait out an affair.

Dobson argues that romantic love is nonsense, whereas the entire goal of the MB programme is to (re)build and maintain romantic love between the spouses. Dobson argues that anybody who wants the intensity of romance to last throughout their marriage is a fool, and is setting themselves up to have an affair, in order constantly to find an intensity that can never last. Again, if one agrees with the goal of MB, one cannot call Dobson's materials "great".

Dr Harley has said that he listened to Dobson speak at a marriage conference, and when Dobson spoke about the need to accept that long-term marriage is not romantic, Dr Harley felt sorry for his wife. She had to endure hearing her husband say - in public - that he did not believe in romantic love in the long term. Where did that leave her? How humiliating! Dr Harley, on the other hand, speaks all the time about how he and his wife have maintained romantic love, and explains that this is what the MB programmes is designed to achieve.

Dr Harley is so different from Dobson.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,527
Likes: 9
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,527
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by blanca
Marriage Fitness???
And as for Mort Fertel, of the Marriage Fitness enterprise...

Marriage Fitness is a known overpriced internet scam. Fertel is a businessman with a snazzy website praying on desperate betrayed spouses looking for a quick fix. He is not a counsellor or professional in any manner and should not be regarded as qualified to help you with your marriage, in any capacity whatsoever.

Are you still in the 30 day return window for Mort Fertel's Marriage Fitness program? If not, you must have your one-to-one phone session with Fertel and then return the package within 30 days to get your money back. If you are beyond the 30 days, don't even bother trying to get your money back. You have been scammed, and if you complain about him on the Internet he'll sue you like he has done his other disgruntled clients.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,527
Likes: 9
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,527
Likes: 9
Please carefully read this thread, where the Mort Fertel Marriage Fitness scam was revealed:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2730521

One last recommendation is that you should click "notify" and ask for this thread to be moved to the forum Surviving an Affair, since you are interested in fighting the affair. You are not planning to divorce, so you do not belong in this forum.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
B
blanca Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
thanks, I asked for this thread to move to Surviving an Affair.

Between Marraige Builders, Divorce Busting, Dobson, enotalone, and various books, I believe that all have good points, and all sometimes seem off target, but probably because they are not looking at my specifics.

My wife is NOT having an affair anymore, so plan A or B don't seem to apply either.

So to refocus my question, anyone with experience with sex addiction therapy? I read Dr. Harley's article on it, and I realize that I can only work on myself (and I am using every spare minute in personal growth/therapy/etc).... but still, my wife has separated, declaring that she needs to find her identity, as part of her sex addiction therapy.

more thoughts please?

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
Originally Posted by blanca
but still, my wife has separated, declaring that she needs to find her identity, as part of her sex addiction therapy.

This is a bogus self serving load of crap. As you know from the article, MB really isn't a big believer in the whole concept of "sex addiction". But to the extent she thinks or believes herself to be one....there isn't a successful therapy program for any addiction which encourages one to do it themselves and separate from those whom would be supportive and hold the addict accountable for their behavior.

Therefore...if one were to believe she is a sex addict...I would be inclined to believe this excuse was an attempt to gaslight you while continuing to pursue sex with others "acting out" as "addicts" do.

If she needs space to find herself individually, offer to clear a space for her in the basement or garage. In the meantime, presume she is still having sex with others (i.e. - the affair(s) continues until you independently glean that it's not).

Good luck.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Originally Posted by blanca
thanks for the above responses. To reply - I truly believe that she didn't know the magnitude of her problem until recently. That is how the disease works. Secondly, I am almost 100% sure she is not having any current partners, she is just very engrossed in her therapy. And third, about that checklist... heck I am on the begging end of things. I can ask for nothing on that list. She is the one divorcing. She doesn't want to talk to me.

How can you be "almost 100% sure" she is not having sex with anyone?

Also, she doesn't have a disease. Sex addiction is not a disease. It is a behavior.
The advice to Plan A would remain the same.
How many people has she had sex with?
Do you know any of them?

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
B
blanca Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
I am really sure that she isn't having sex with anyone. She is going at her recovery work in real earnest. In fact, I think her withdrawal from sex maybe precipitating some of the current issues. She had 2 affairs while we were married, but dozens of partners prior to marriage. I don't know any of them.

I don't see how Plan A applies at all. She is not having an affair now, and she is leaving, divorcing. So I have no ability to negotiate anything.

That is why I started this thread, because I had not seen a discussion similar to this, where the WS is leaving, but not for an AP (affair partner), rather for therapeutic reasons.

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by blanca
I am really sure that she isn't having sex with anyone. She is going at her recovery work in real earnest. In fact, I think her withdrawal from sex maybe precipitating some of the current issues. She had 2 affairs while we were married, but dozens of partners prior to marriage. I don't know any of them.

I don't see how Plan A applies at all. She is not having an affair now, and she is leaving, divorcing. So I have no ability to negotiate anything.

That is why I started this thread, because I had not seen a discussion similar to this, where the WS is leaving, but not for an AP (affair partner), rather for therapeutic reasons.

You are talking in circles. Blogging here will not help. Using MB will. You need to prove there is no affair and how to plan A your WW.

Why are you so willing to believe the words of a liar and a cheat?

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
2 affairs while married?
Did she tell you the names of the men? Does she work with them? Where do she meet them?
You dont seem to know very much so i dont understand how you can be so certain she isn't having an affair now.
Also, i had the impression she was grabbing men off the street for sex and had dozens of partners. So obviously with two affairs she was able to control herself somewhat. An "addict" has no control.
My feeling is that she is in love with another man and that is why she left you. You need to find out who it is.

And stop treating her like a cancer patient.

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
B
blanca Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
she did tell me the names, they were on work trips away, she showed me every email etc. I talked to spouses of both. I know those are done, and I know she is not chasing anyone else right now.

Rather than me trying to convince you all, could you just accept the premise of my question. Lets assume she isn't have any affairs now. Then what do you think of the notion of one moving out to find themselves (but not to find other affairs)?

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,116 guests, and 67 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5