Hello,
several months ago we learned about my father's affair. He has a sexual and emotional affair with a colleague, which started almost a year ago. My father is 55, and this other woman is 32. My father shared with my mother three months after the affair began. This has never happened before, and he felt guilty. At the same time, however, he wants to stay with this other woman and to marry her at all cost. Several months later they told my brother and me about this.
It has been a devastating and shocking news to all of us. My brother and me are not small anymore (28 and 31), but it is a shock anyways. When I heard for this for the first time I burst into tears, and I told my father that he cannot do this, that this is not right. That it steps over and spits on everything he taught us. For us it is a shock, because my father has always been a very good and moral person. You might ask me, how I know this, but we have talked with my parents about this, and this has really never happened before (infidelity). He has always been very negative against affairs when they happen to other people. Recently we had our uncle who had a ffaor and left his family, some years ago other family friends. Long time ago his grandfather did the same when he was in his fifties, and my father knows from his father that it caused so much pain. We have always been open to talk about this - when this happened to my uncle and other family friends, we have always talked and discussed. His good behaviour, his good thinking, his good morals - this is what I have now from him! He taught me this way. And that's why I was in shock.

And because I believe I know my father, we have always been close as a family, I could not understand what has happened. After the first moments of anger, pain, shame, etc., I started reading a lot about this topic - everything that I could find on the internet. I just could not believe how this can happen, how my father can change all his beliefs and become so much caring for and loving another person whom he knows for a few months, and do not care anymore about his other family and how much pain he causes it - because he has always been a caring and loving father and husband. I just wanted to understand what's going on, how could it happen, even scientifically how is it possible. At one point I found this website, and I read almost everything here. I also bought the books "His needs, her needs", "Fall in love, Stay in love", and "Surviving and affair" in a paper version and read them. And they helped me a lot to understand what was happening - they answered almost of my questions. I was so happy I found them!!

But unfortunatly, up to this moment, I could not help my family. I send my father the link to the website, but he did not read much of it. He said it seems good website, but he barely read it - he is just not interested. Then I send him the book "His needs, her needs", but now two months after having the book he still hasn't read it. I tried many times to tell him and to write him about the things I learned from the web site, but he does not want to listen to me. He treats me like his little daughter, who does not understand much and who has not lived as much on this world as he has. He is not listening to anyone - neither my mom, nor my grandmother, nor my brother, nor some of our best family friends who are all upset. I am so desperate. And the desperation became stronger by the fact that he wants now to file for divorce in the next weeks and to have everything done as soon as possible.

And the funny thing is that he does want to have a good realtionship with everyone, including my mother. They are having friendly relationship right now. He is leaving in another apartment right now, but he often comes home if there is something to do. My mother wants to restore their marriage. She was shocked and she felt lots of pain from what my father did, but she/they talked a lot about how this happens, why this happens, and she thinks that she could have been a better wife, and therefore she is ready to forgive him and ready to solve their problems. She want to keep the family together. I am so amazed by her behaviour and thinking. She has always been very quiet woman, but now put in this situation I could see how strong she is.

From my own observation through the years, and from my talks with my parents, and what they told me about their mariatal problems - I understand that they have gone through the paths, which Dr. Harley decribes - there were many love busters involved, which caused their love for each other to disappear. My father has always had very anger-ourbursty character - I rememebr numerous situations since I was a child for many different reasons. Almost always these have been domestic or family issues. As soon as he does not like something he shouts and offends. And always he excuses himself after that. I don't remember a single case when he hasn't done it, to excuse himself. He is a good person. One of the best I know by his heart. Really good, and that's why I love him so much. But he can be like a hurricane, and then when the storm goes away, he is nice and sorry for what he did. And often he had a good reason to be uncontent, but the way he expressed this was horrible. And this had definitely affected my mother. She has always been calm, not looking for conflict, I barely have seen her to shout or be angry herself. When my father was shouting, she was always quiet. She never liked it, I saw her sometimes crying, but she never answered back at his offends. He did not hit, but outburst were verbal, and they caused lots of pain. And because after every outburst my father was good again, it was all good again in the family. Overall they were fantastic parents.

But these things definitely offected my mother and things became harder with time. She also gain weight which further made my father not happy. He loved her, but he wanted her to look better. She wanted too, but it was hard for her, plus the angry outbursts continued, and I guess at one point she just lost her motivation to look better and to improve. They told me that in the last few years they also did not have any sexual contact. Which is not a surprise for me. My father was affectionate from time to time by giving flowers and gifts to my mother (he has always done this), but his angry outbursts continued as well...

My father is an educated person, too educated I would say which is a problem as well in this situation, he is a professor in human sciences. He has a good opinion about himself, and he does not feel much guilty now, because he thinks that he said my mother many times to change (her weight, her look, and eveyhting else he was not liking and being content) and since she didn't change, he went to another woman. But he does not realize that the way he was asking her to do this was always offending and disrespectful. And I cannot change his mind about that right now. When my uncle dicorced, my father told us that if my uncle and my aunt had problems, they should have tried to solve them, and then only after my uncle put all his efforts in solving the marital problems and it didn't work out, only then he could have filed for divorce and then later he could find maybe another woman. But not to have affair and then divorce. These were the words of my father! And now he is doing the same... And he saw how much pain and disaster my uncle's affair and divorce caused to his family and children...

Also, my father is very difficult to talk to, because he thinks that psychologysts are not worth reading, he does not like them, and I am very much ashamed of his thinking. I don't agree, I told him that in every discipline there are wonderful and clever people. He said that maybe there are 5% which are good. I am trying to convince him now that the books I am reading are from these 5% good psychologysts. Anyways, he is hard to talk to because he has an "answer" to every question, that's why I said he is too "educated". But I still love him... He is still wonderful in so many other things. And I am sure that they can live happily with my mother again, as soon as they decide to work on the problems in their marriage.

One of the biggest problems is also that he thinks that nothing can change - that he cannot fall in love with my mom as before, and that's why he does not want to go back with her. He also thinks that love is something very rare and special and since he found it in this other woman, he should not lose it. He also thinks that what is happening to him is very rare, because he is in general a good and moral person, and it just "happened" to him. If it happened and he feels so wonderful, he thinks, then for him it means that it is meant to be... These are all his words, when I last talked to him last month in September (unfortunately, I live far away from home, and we cannot talk in person so often). In my opinion, he is exactly what Dr. Harley describes, in every single aspect. And his relationship with this other woman is both emotional and sexual and that's why so hard to deal with.


Anyways. I wanted to give you more or less the whole picture. He really wants to file for divorce during this month (he even said in one-two weeks), because he wants to marry this other woman. And apparantely this other woman is pushing him, because she does not feel happy that he is still married to my mother. My mother wants to restore their marriage, but she said that she will give him divorce, because he does not want to try to work on their marriage, he is very determined, and it is impossible to live like that. Which is logical, I cannot say anything. But I am so sad and devastated, all our family is.

And I thought, as a last chance, that before the divorce happens, I really want my father to at least read the books by Dr. Harley. He even promised me, but as I told you he still hasn't done this, this is not a priority for him, he thinks that they will not help, and maybe he will read them, but after the divorce. My heart is not allowing me not to share my knowledge with him, which I gained from these books. He loves me, we still talk friendly, and I think that before the divorce I will go home and read the books together with him. This will be my last wish as a daughter, and I am pretty sure that he will agree to read them with me.

But my questions to you is: do you think it will help? Do you think that he can wake up, change his mind? Being already so determined to divorce and be with this other woman, can the books help? By reading the books of Dr. Harley I could not find an answer how to cope with a spouse who really does not want to come back to his family - the case of my father. In most of the stories Dr. Harley describes, he writes that even though the addiction to the lover is so big, the wayward spouse still feels guilt and questions whether it is good to leave the family. My father, on the contrary, is very determined - he still feels sorry about what what he is causing us, because he is a good person, but this cannot measure up with what he feels for this other woman - he just wants to be with her, which means leaving us, and that's it. He even told me that he is ready for the price, which can go with leaving his family. Whatever the price is. He says he will always be our father, love us and support us, and he will always help my mother if necessary, but I cannot convince him that there will be emotional estrangement anyways with this decision, especially on our side, and it will never be the same. I told him that when time passes, he will feel lots of guilt and that all this love euphoria with this woman might become less strong, and that he is most probably not ready for the price as he says... But nothing helps. It is as if I am talking to a stone.

So, can I still do something? I will definitely convince him to read the books, we will read them together and I am sure he cannot refuse me this. But do you think this will help? Do you think I can do something else? If you have any more questions about the state of the things and what happened, so that you understand better, please let me know.

Thank you so much in advance!

Your Dad/WH needs to read Surviving An Affair not His Needs Her Needs.

Though the real issue is you need to have Surviving An Affair in your mom's hands today. Then you need to support your mom to expose this affair fully which must include a work exposure. And, do not warn her WH that you are going to do an exposure, or threaten the WH to end this affair or I will expose for threats never help and then warns the AP's to take steps to counter the exposure.

Even more important you need to get your mom on this site and vet's will lead her through the steps to fight this affair.

Hi gemm, that post is so long that most people won't have time to read it, but I did skip to the end and read this paragraph. No, it will not help your dad to read SAA. The problem is not his education about adultery, he already knew it was wrong. He changed his belief system to accommodate his addiction. YEs, he is addicted to the OW. That is the powerful motivator that has caused him to change his beliefs. So showing him the book would be like showing the Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book to a falling down drunk. It means nothing.

What you can do is bring your mother here so we can help her save her marriage. Her actions of being "friends" with him and offering him fake forgiveness only serve to enable him. Her behavior of acceptance harms her, your father and their marriage. It is not a virtue to sit by and do nothing while your father engages in destructive, life wrecking behavior. Going along with this horrible behavior is not a virtue. His life and your mother's will be wrecked.

If your father was drunk driving and you and your mother were in the back seat, should she try to be "friends" and "forgive" him or should she try and stop the car, get out and help him sober up?

But it doesn't have to be like that. There are things we can do to help your mother bust up the affair. It might be too late but it is worth a try if she will stop being an enabler.

In the meantime, stop trying to reason with your father [like trying to reason with a falling down drunk] and instead tell him how sickened and disappointed you are with him. Call the OW and ask her to buzz off. Tell her you will never allow her to darken your doorstep. Commit to never having anything to do with her, because that will endorse their affair. That will cause trouble in the affair. Most children never accept adultery partners because of the role they played in wrecking their families.

Also, your fathers affair with this woman is very unlikely to last. 95% of affairs fall apart in under 2 years. All of the traits that made the affair possible, deceit, dishonesty and selfishness eventually poison the affair and it falls apart. Just think, the OW will never be able to trust your father behind her back. And he will never be able to trust her because she has no respect for marriage.

Listen to these radio clips and send them to your mother:

affairages <-----send this one to your father too

Radio Clip about inappropriate forgiveness: here

Welcome to MB. Good for you for being opposed to the way your father is destroying his marriage and family.

Give your mother a copy of SAA. And also encourage her to post here. If she truly is interested in recovering her marriage, MB offers the single greatest plan to do that. Right now she is making some critical mistakes, we can guide her down a better path that will not only increase her chances of recovery, but also help her maintain physical and emotional well being during this very painful abuse your father is inflicting on her.

Meanwhile, make sure your father knows at every turn that you are completely opposed to this affair. Tell him how devastated it has made you. Tell him how disappointed you are by his IMMORAL actions, after he spent years teaching you how to be moral. Tell him that under no circumstances will you ever accept his OW as a part of your family.

Also, contact OW and tell her all of the same. Tell her she has devastated your mother, yourself and your family. Tell her that you will never ever accept her as a part of your family.

You don't have to support immoral behavior just because he is your dad or because you love him. In fact, it is actually a much more loving action to take a stance against his destructive and immoral lifestyle. Just as if he were doing drugs and destroying his life, you would not pretend that was OK or borrow him money to buy more drugs. Instead you would do everything in your power to stop him from destroying his life, because you love him! This is the same thing. He is in an 'affair fog' because he is addicted to the OW. He is not thinking clearly and he is destroying his life. It is the loving thing to do to combat that at every turn, with your disapproval and by not accepting it as the new norm.

Yes, there is stuff you can do. Tell everyone the truth of your father's affair. Expose him far and wide. Don't let him construct some kind alternative-reality story for what he is doing. Make sure everyone knows the truth. He needs to be held accountable for his adultery. Affairs are fantasy addictions. Reality spoils them. Don't expect him to be rational about this. He is an addict, and addicts do crazy and uncharacteristic things to support their addictions.

You can't educate an active wayward about affairs. He's just appeasing you while hoping to maintain good relations with you while he destroys his family.

You can always change your mind much later down the road but I'd suggest you take MelodyLane's advice....send mom here AND tell you father that not only will the OW not be welcome at your home but that you need to cut off contact with him as well and fully support your mother emotionally. You aren't minor children that shouldn't pick sides....pick 'em and leave him with the choice of either his OW or his family (not just OW or your mom). As the affair takes on a whole new burden and OW has to not only replace his wife but his children too...it won't be nearly as easy breezy for them. It will help facilitate the end of this delusional relationship and ONCE IT'S OVER you can then go to work on helping and supporting BOTH of you parents restore their marriage and your family.

It would be great if you sibling joined you in this effort to SAVE YOUR FATHER (this is NOT vindictive punishment - you are seeking to literally save his eternal soul).


Waywards have this fantasy that everyone is going to be happy for them ---that this looooovvvvveeee is so special that certainly everyone must see it and bow down to it. That eventually people get on with life and everyone will remain just as close as they were before only with this new awesome bonus person (the OW) in the mix. The sooner you squash that fantasy...the sooner reality will set in - Reality always catches up to waywards but when everyone tip toe's around the wayward and appeasing them because they are scared that they too, might render themselves disposable to dad (just like mom) it just takes a lot longer. Study up on intervention technique that are used on addicts and you and your brother can basically have one with your dad. Instead of choose treatment or we won't have anything to do with you ....it's leave OW, commit to fixing your REAL marriage or we won't have anything to do with you.


*I want to repeat this....in two years or so, if they do end up divorced and he ends up with OW you can always change your mind. I'm not suggesting you have to give him up forever (take not that less than 3% of affairs actually result in affairages that last more than 5 years and event the ones that make it are miserable marriages of distrust, discord and misery) so it's not very likely that you'll have to endure this affair forever anyway; but, he should be given the impression that you're done with him in no uncertain terms until the affair is over. Also - don't be shocked that he (hopefully initially) picks her over you, your brother and your mom. The PEA chemicals in his brain released by a secret adulterous affair are overwhelming. Not only does he THINK she is the love of his life but also that he has found the fountain of youth. It will take some time and fortitude before he realizes you were serious. Remember...he's living in a fantasy world so what you say gets filtered by his waywardism. He'll just think... - "they're just hurt for their mother but I'm sure they will come around".

Yes.

Expanding on that - I get the feeling that maybe the OW works with your dad in some capacity.

Do they work together?

Is Dad tenured?

Is OW tenured?

As I'm sure you read, in order to save his marriage with your mom - he and the OW must establish "no contact for life". That will get complicated if they are both tenured professors.

Are their policies at the university regarding workplace relations (probably not...the teaching profession is rife with infidelity

There is generally an anti-fraternization policy at most uiversities but HR can't do anything if the activity isn't reported officially. So report him. You can probably even do it anonymously if you like.

It is unlikely that a 32-year-old is a full professor, which does represent a sexual harrassment issue for the university.

Especially as other young academics may be overlooked for advancement in favor of a long-term faculty member's mistress. There are people at the university who know and are angered but likely fear retaliation should they report the unethical activities

Thank you, eveyone, for the replies! Thanks a lot.

I am sorry for the very long post. I just wanted to depict the whole situation so that you have a better idea of my problem.

My father does know that we do not want to have anything to do with that other woman. I have told him many times how hurt I am. Apart from trying to talk to him, to explain, to "wake" him up with dicussions and explanation (which did not help), I have also expressed my feelings very sharply and angrily. The same has done my brother and my grandmother. This didn't help.

I see what you mean about the books. Maybe it will not help either... I really thought it might help... I thought he doesn't want to listen to his little daughter, but when he read the words from a professional, it will help.

This other woman works at another university, another country. But this doesn't make it easier. They are seeing each other every months, sometimes for two weeks and more in the month. I did wrote to her. At one point I realised that she did not know at all that we are suffering. As if my father left his wife long ago. Which is totally not the case. I wrote her politely but firmly, without affending her, that this relationship causes us lots of pain. I wrote her that she might be a good person in general, but what she is doing is not good because we suffer from this, because my father IS married. I never received an answer from her, but I saw the actions - my father was mad at me that I wrote her. And she started visiting him non-stop, she stayed several times almost the whole month, without even telling him that she is coming. She felt threatened. And my father is doing everything she wants... basically, everything so that their relationship continues to be.

I don't know. It seems a bit hopeless. He really wants do divorce in the next few weeks. Unfortunately, I cannot bring my mother here, because she does not speak English... We are from Bulgaria. My father, however does speak, and that's why I was relying so much on the books.

Anyways, thank you very much for all your suggestions and comments. Maybe I will still try to give him the books... I don't know what else can I do. It is exposed, he knows how we feels about everything. About the behaviour of mu mom - she chose it to behave this way. But she is sincere. She is hurt, but she still loves him. When I wrote that she is ready to forgive him (or she already did), I meant she really did it, with all her heart and thought. It was not fake. She told me that does not want to feel harted and bitterness, because this hurts her even more. She caught for whatever feeling of love and positivity there was inside her, and really decided to stick to this positivity. She started doing yoga, she started guitar lessons, she put off 5-6 kilos, which is a lot for her, because she is rather small.

Also, I read here an article that in this sitatuon - exactly the same scenario of my father's affair - what she does is close to what she needs to do in order to have a chance to save her marriage. She did this on her own, and I was amazed to read that her behaviour might actually be not so wrong. Whether it is really the right thing to do, I don't know. But from my own experience it is also hard for me to advise her how to act. Here is this article:

*edit*

Basically, thsi article says that: "Dealing with a man who wants to leave is different from dealing with a man who has been caught and doesn�t want to leave." And this is really what I see from my father's actions.

Thank you once again for all the help.

***EDIT***

OMG... not Coach Jack Ito aka John Ito aka John Martin again.

He's a "coach" because he married a Japanese woman and took her last name and move to Japan. He's only been married a few years - hardly a marriage expert. Now, because he's in Japan he has to "practice" counseling on the internet versus a tiny little general counseling practice in Pennsylvania. Unlike some of the internet psuedo-experts like Mort Fertel, at least this one has a counseling degree but his ideas and writings are still very immature and underdeveloped. He really needs to research more before putting these contrived unsupported ideas out there.

He advises women in your mother's situations to maintain contact under the notion that they can somehow reconnect with their wayward husband's as long as they maintain some, even minimal contact with them. No contact means losing them (even if it's soul destroying and enabling). Interestingly, he throws up his hands and declares it over if the wayward husband has already moved in, living with the OW and/or committed to marrying her. It's no wonder he lacks success reconciling marriages in such state when he promotes a plan of appeasement.

Your dad has to lose everything and then you all just sit back and let the OW TRY to fill all his emotional needs. After your letters....see how she had to step up her game??? Double down. It may FEEL like you are pushing them together. That they are becoming them against the world...but that gets old and boring really quick.

Stay away from guys like coach Jack Ito. He is just another self declared internet marriage and infidelity expert desperately trying to make a name for himself in the online infidelity help arena (where the most desperate people can be found to buy anything that sounds like it might fix their situation). These psuedo-experts specialize is being the honey that eases their customers minds that doing what they are doing is OK when it's not. Your mom can't nice her husband back to her. It's OK for about a month but then she needs to close the door, hope he ends the afffair and comes home or start processing and recovering by rebuilding her own life without him. Maintaining contact with him is just a slow torture that hurts your mom and lessens her chance of recovery.

Is OW married?

Thank you, MrWondering. I also noticed that internet is full of many people trying to advise on these issues. Sometimes it seems a bit difficult whom to trust. After I read few articles from Dr. Harley, I continued reading the rest of his work, because his approach seems intuitively for me the most healthy and better explaining what's happening. Yet, the article by Jack Ito fits the description of my mom and dad's situation, and that's why it caught my eye. But thanks for the advice.
I am a bit lost, because I tried all types of behaviour, and nothing seems to work. By being firm and reserved, he goes away. By being nice, it is a torture for me, and still doesn't help. My mom is good and at the same time sometimes firm to him. She is definitely not hostile. He once said that thanks to her behavior they are still on good terms. He told me if she was as demanding and trying to "put him in the right way" as I am, then he would not be talking to her at all. So, I don't know anymore... But I agree that right now he still cannot feel our loss.
But at the end everything depends on him, it looks like it, no? Because in the stories by Dr. Harley the wayward spouse feels a bit of guilt and the main thing - he/she is questioning whether leaving his/her family is a good thing. In my father's case - he feels sorry for us, but he definitely wants to leave - he is not hesitating. Maybe a bit in the beginning (at least he was saying this), but not anymore. Is there a way to make him question? Being already in this state? Thank you.

BrainHurts, no, she is not married. She was single when they met.

Who on OW's side has this been exposed to?

I think it is exposed to many people on her side - many friends know, her mother knows - I know this from her profile on facebook. She even tagged my father that she is in a relationship with him. So, it is not a hidden affair. Also, at work my father has "friends" who support him. I call them friends, because these are new colleagues (from the last few years), whom I have never met. But I know about several of his older colleagues, who know our family, and who have been good friends of ours, and they were in shock. One of them doesn't even talk with him because of what he does. But this seems not to matter to him.. He finds in his new friends "support" and this is enought for him..

But what is wrong with this? Most waywards do go away unless folks are enabling them, so this is not unexpected. Is it your goal to be an enabler? The goal here to save the marriage, not to enable him so he will allow you to hang around.


She should not be speaking to him, though. by allowing an abusive, thoughtless husband to stay in touch with her, it makes her look unattractive and only erodes her mental and physical health. It is harmful for her to stay in touch with him.


The way you motivate him to end his affair is to expose his affair and apply as much pressure as possible to he and the OW. In the meantime, your mother should not be in touch with him.

The truth has not been exposed. I seriously doubt any of these people know or understand that this is a married man committing adultery.

The story they were told is something like:

Joe is finalizing a divorce from his cruel and abusive wife after years of being separated. OR Joe's wife ran off for her affair partner and is divorcing Joe. His divorce is almost final so we have begun a new relationship. She was mean and cruel to him for years and he is finally rid of her.

When the true story is: Joe abandoned his loving wife of 35 years so he could have an affair with skanky hoe.


Sure, maybe he has "friends" who endorse adultery, but it is unlikely they know the truth.

This is why it is so critical for your mother and yourself to expose the affair. When we say "expose" we don't mean the lies spread by lying cheaters.

Thank you, MelodyLane. I/we really don't want to enable her or him to continue with this. But the problem is that I don't know how to behave so that all this stops. I will take your suggestion that my mom does not talk to him. Indeed, we can wait and their relationship can die.. But in the meantime it is very probable that he divorces, they marry, and I will not be surprised if they have a child.. My father told us he wants to marry her and she wants too. I am looking for ways to prevent all this before happening.. We will be so estranged by then... And if my mom wants to work on their marriage problems now, I am not sure if she will wants this later. And it will be logical not to.

Without waiting for so long, is there a way to "wake" him up now? Right now? I know it is an addiction... but really no known way that his brain tells him it is all not reality? It seems like these situations, when the wayward spouse does not want to come back, are solved only by wayting the affair to die...