Ok. This is helpful. Thanks.

There's no need to talk to him and you don't have to prove that to him - just don't do it. Stand your ground.

It's just like MelodyLane said he is going to try to weasel his way around every condition you set. You don't want to talk to him so he is trying to badger you into talking to him. You don't want him at the house so is trying to badger you into inviting him to house.

You don't have to tell him why on anything. Let him wonder - it'll be good therapy for him.

Thank you Markos.

Essentially everything he says to you while still in contact will be geared towards his hope you will prop up a mock front while he continues getting side action. Side action is meaningless without main action.

This is why it's so important to put him aside so you don't hear all his currently dumb selfishness that will just revisit and haunt you later on during, and stalling, a recovery.

Some useful stock phrases for now:

"I would love family togetherness but it's not my call

It's too painful and heartbreaking to discuss right now.

I can't force your decision and don't wish to.

I do not wish to be badgered.

I love you too much to settle.

(After a particularly poignant appeal) Did you know polar bears are black if you shave them?"

But really, a level look and refusing to fill the silence would do much to unravel him. He only has one game plan and it was formed during the fog of an falsely ego boosting affair.

Plan: "I am clearly God's gift at the moment, so plan is I do nothing and let my mistress bid for attention when my wife is winning, and I'm sure my wife will play the same desperado game if she finds out too."

Back up plan in case of wife who isn't begging to be cheated on: "???!!!!!....(sound of tumbleweed)"

I would be real careful here. Like I said before, his next step will be to agree to a "few" of your conditions and then reject the others. I assure you he still believes he can control you.

Reply "with regards to?"

This is great indie, thanks!

So it was mostly about the kids. He wanted to make plans to see them this weekend. He mentioned how he was still trying to believe how I'm not trying to hurt him, even since I told his work. He also wanted to come by and get more of his stuff since he only took about 4 days worth of clothes. I kept telling him no I can send clothes to him but he was insistent. I said we can talk about it when he sees the kids Sunday. And then he wanted to chitchat and ask how I am doing and how my therapy session was today. I gave one word, ok, then said well ok bye.

Just reverse fog babble this by modelling what good behaviour looks like. He is being snarky about your intentions, so you be noble about his.

"Well speaking for myself, I know you are not intentionally hurtful. Even though this pain is hard to survive, I know you were not deliberately trying to hurt me. That is why I am so sure you can earn my forgiveness and the forgiveness of everyone else you have disappointed. I think you can show them something amazing by saving our marriage."

Or the old classic: "I am sorry your affair is so embarrassing to you. That must be really difficult." Head tilted to side sympathetically.





Yet another easily popped delusion in his plan.

Delusion:

"She is my wife and can never really leave me. We are bound together by all my stuff in MY house and by our children. I am not any more committed to my floozie than four days worth of clothes would suggest - but I am not worried about losing my wife for what is so obviously such a short term fling, and one that has been torpedoed at that.

"Whenever I come by my dear home base for clothes/to see the kids/celebrations of holidays/adoring looks from the wife who still loves moi-god's-gift/whenever I need a baloney sandwich - I will swing by unannounced and have my cake and eat it too!

"Every time I do I will make approaches to her about 'talking' - but this will really be abuse and blaming her for my affair and her need to cry out for help with it. I will be telling her I don't love her, often. If I wear her down sufficiently to compete for me I am back in business."

Reality:

Plan B letter telling him he collects DD from a friend's house and is on his own as regards activities with her/ repairing his relationship/ explaining himself.

Plan B instructions telling him where to go pick up EVERY ITEM he belongs which you have thoughtfully packed up for him. (Crash of reality hits him -It is no longer 'his' home, it is now your home).

If you wait for a wayward to pack himself up, you will be waiting a long time. This is a very typical aspect of their 'how long can I cake-eat?' plan. Simply have everything sent on to a friend/relative/storage facility with instructions of how he can go get it. Don't discuss this with him ahead of time, it is better that it comes with some Plan B shock and awe when he can't even reach you to complain.

This is all good info thanks!

I have gotten myself as ready as I'll ever be to Plan B. I have *some* money in my own bank account. The locks changed. And plan B letter almost finished. I plan to pack his things tonight and then give him the letter tomorrow or Sunday. (though I am hoping tomorrow).

He shouldn't be able to reach you when he gets the letter. Have you changed your contact details? Will he know how/when he will see the children?

You could say in the letter that he will be notified about child visitation arrangements in a few days and have your IM follow that up.

Bella, how will he get the letter? You don't want to give it to him personally because you don't want to be in a situaiton where he opens it and then debates it with you.

i would also make up a visitation schedule and plan and attach it. That needs to be included with the Plan B letter so there is not unnecessary communication after you go dark. For example, you can suggest he pick up the kids for visits on Wed evening from 6-8 and Saturdays [or Sundays] from XX-XX. Do you have a way he can pick up the kids without coming in the house and without seeing you? Can the exchange be at your IM's house? A neighbors house?

Another thing you must plan for is not allowing him to contact you. For exam,ple, you will want to block his emails and phone #. He should not be able to call or text you.

Also it is a good idea to contact the OW's husband and let him know your H is moving out. He needs to know this so he can watch his wife closely.

Plesae post your letter so we can give you feedback. Do you have the sample letter in SAA to use as a guide?

I haven't changed my phone number. How will he be able to Facetime with the kids? Should I say that that isn't allowed?


Yes, I will notify him of arrangements through the IM.

Yes, I have already made plans with my IM to have them give it to him.


Yes, I have made arrangements for child switching to happen at the IMs house.


I had planned to block him somehow.

Like I asked above, I am assuming he doesn't get to Facetime the kids?

Let him figure that out. In Plan B you don't expend effort to solve problems for him any more. If he wants to do that, he can figure out how to do it, but he can't do it with your phone any more because he can't get ahold of you.

Ok, thank you.

Bella, I would avoid facetiming at all cost. He will have visitation and he can see the kids that way. You don't EVEN want to be in a position where the kids are facetiming with him and you have to facilitate it and listen to him. That defeats the whole purpose of plan B.

Ok, good points.

Do you get the sense that he believes you are serious now? Or is he still waiting for you to call him up and beg him to come back?