So I'm trying to determine next steps in my relationship right now�

I'm pretty much convinced my wife is having an affair after first discovery of some in appropriate messages over 6 months ago and increasing signs since (distance, no intimacy, desire not to be touched, late nights and hidden texting). Any discussion around the possibility of an affair has been met with denial and fights between us. There is however some things that lead me to the possibility that a physical affair does not exists and that it's purely emotional (she doesn't see emotional affairs as real affairs).

I've been trying to take the high road, avoid the conversation and show nothing but love towards her, still she feels like I'm monitoring her and not giving her any space. It's hard not to notice what she's doing and suspicion is there. I've caught her in a few lies over the last few months so trust is definitely fractured, but none of the lies have necessarily indicated an affair.

At times over the last year she's questioned the value of marriage and often brought up the idea of an open marriage. She's now said she's checked out and not interested in working on the relationship anymore and has made plans to try living somewhere else for a few weeks but still wants daily contact with our child at our home.

Her ideal view of our marriage going forward is to have a functional marriage for the finances and care of our child. I'm not sure I can live like that but if it allows for some hope of a real marriage down the road then I'm open to it. Every now and then she gives positive vibes about a future together, talking about home improvements, raising our child etc and we've had some good lengthy healthy discussions with laughter.

So I'm currently faced of when to transition to "Plan B" and go completely cold with her, stick with "Plan A" for more time with loving and kindness. Alternatively, I could consider other options to accept her proposal for an open marriage (for the sake of our daughter and remain hopeful things may change down the road) or give up completely at this point in time and call it quits.

I'm still hopeful for a relationship but at the same time am caught up in this emotional rollercoaster. I am also debating whether confronting her one final time about the possibility of the affair but at this point feel it might push her further away and without any concrete evidence she would just continue to deny it. So I doubt any good would come of this path.

Hi PL, welcome to Marriage Builders. The best thing you can do for your marriage is to stop accusing and start doing some super sleuthing. Get some spyware on her phone, a keylogger on her computer and a voice activated recorder in her car or any other place where she would speak to an affair partner. Do that and then come back and tell us what you find. We will help oyu with next steps.


Plan B is not going cold, but even so you must first do Plan A, which is getting the facts and exposing the affair. You haven't done that yet.


That is only an "alternative" if you don't give a crap about your wife and wish to destroy your marriage. You don't ever want to tell her you would consider such a thing, because that will demonstrate you don't care about her. She won't forget that you didn't care when her fog wears off.

It most certainly is not in your daughters best interest to have 2 parents who are committing adultery. It is in her best interest for you to PROTECT your marriage by busting up her affair.

I really struggle with the sleuthing aspect, most of all you have suggested is illegal in the state where I live.

I've seen the following so far:
Proof that she didn't come home one night when I was out of town (based on alarm system activity in the home)
Unexplained extended absences during the day
She called me by his name once in an argument
Plans to meet him for dinner recently that fell through - (over saw on her unlocked phone)
High mileage on the car when she's only supposed to be commuting to work
Receipt from a store near where he lives (50 miles away)

When you add it all up it tells me affair, but each one could probably have an excuse against it and is all circumstantial.

I should also note she works in tech, so would easily latch on to any sort of tech sleuthing I'd be trying. It would likely not go undetected.

She's also said she's willing to divorce me if I continue to push on this - so I've been reluctant to come down hard as it would likely mean the end of our relationship. She's got childhood issues of being controlled and doesn't like living within rules or being controlled.

You need to figure it out, even if you have to hire a PI. Have you gone through her phone to read her emails and texts? This is the key to saving your marriage. You must get the facts.


She is married and she goes to dinner with men? Is there a reason why you would go along with this? Evne so it sounds like it should be very easy to get the evidence. You just have to get to work.


It is not direct evidence of an affair. This is what you need to get asap.

The affair is the most pressing problem, but the fact that she goes out with men is very troubling. Is this something you have endorsed in the past? Do you have separate leisure lifestyles?

I doubt that. We have many waywards who work in IT and they never detect spyware.


I am not telling you to "come down hard." I am telling you to get the FACTS so we can save your marriage. YOU ARE HEADED TO DIVORCE RIGHT NOW.


The only person being "controlling" here is HER. It is not controlling to ask your spouse to stop abusing you. It *IS* controlling - and abusive - to force your spouse to tolerate your reckless, thoughtless behavior. That is what she is doing.

You'll just have to be careful on what you are doing. Placing the VAR strategically will do the trick. The keylogger and phone spyware are a little trickier, but can be done. Practice on your own phone first before deploying. Don't tip her off!

Yes she goes to dinner with Men and I'm certainly not comfortable with it. However we are not on the same page of what we believe Marriage is right now. She wants the open marriage - I don't. so we are basically at a cross-roads.

The guy friends she goes out with are all married as well - and according to her their spouses are "ok" with it. I don't buy that argument.... She does work in an industry where it's mostly male, so her rationale is that it's all casual and mostly work discussion (usually it's lunches, but every now and then it's a quick dinner). She also goes out lots 1-1 with her girlfriends.

This is something you can address once you get the facts about the affair and take steps to bust it up. If that is her philosophy of marriage, you are looking at your future. But you wont have a chance to persuade her to change her philosophy as long as she is having an affair.

The open marriage desire makes me think she is associating with swingers. Could that be the case?

Are you married? How long? Do you have kids? How old are they?

How did your relationship start?

She's defiantly been associating with swingers which I think have influenced her towards that way of life. We've even discussed it within our marriage and came close to trying it at one point but it never worked out. But that was more me grasping at straws to try and rebuild things.

married 10 years one child that's 9. We started long distance so we didn't really have much of a courtship, something her Councillor has reminder her of (at least she's in councilling). She's definitely in a confused state right now - struggling with identity and what she wants in a relationship.

Thanks. Glad it didn't work out because it is so destructive.


I can imagine she is very confused if she is seeing a counselor. Unfortunately, they are terrible for marriages. Instead of reminded her of how your marriage started, a qualified counselor would be telling her to make your marriage great.

Even so, you have a very difficult situation because of your wife's philosophy of marriage. She will never be able to sustain a marriage with her marriage wrecking practices of swinging, independent lifestyle and opposite sex friendships. It is a long shot, but you might be able to persuade her to stop those practices if you can get the evidence of her affair and expose it. That is the most likely thing to wake her up from her destructive lifestyle.

Is she an alcoholic?

No she's the complete opposite, doesn't drink at all! Knowing my wife (or at least thinking I know her with all the deceit) exposing the affair (if there is one) will surely end it. She almost walked out the first time I brought it up. My best hope I think is that hope it dies a quick death although it's been going on for >1 year already, or that I somehow accept her indiscretions and lover her for who she is.

Knowing adulterers, the best hope for your marriage is to expose it. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so even if this does die eventually, her fog will not. Which means she will just have more affairs. Exposure is most powerful weapon against an affair because it ruins the fantasy and is the most likely thing to motivate her to change and work on the marriage. '

Keeping it a secret only serves to enable the affair, and it is impossible to save if you are enabling it.

Were you interested in saving your marriage? No guarantees, but your ideas are guaranteed to destroy your marriage. You can't enable your way to a good marriage.


Why don't you just do that right now? Just accept that you are #2 or #3 man and be done with it. Quite honestly, your complacent approach reflects an astonishing lack of care. Being an enabler does not demonstrate care at all. If your child grew up and became a heroin freak would you use similar lame excuses? Or would you try to help the child recover?

Listen to Mel...exposure works! Plan Pac...will not...you are dealing with something foreign to YOU...but not to those on this site. You're here to save your marriage. Hear me...I waited to expose...just like you...and I can tell you one thing...WISH I WOULDVE DONE IT SOONER WHEN THEY TOLD ME TOO! Waiting is plan Pac...not plan marriage restoration.

Definitely interested in saving the relationship and if I can get the proof will plan the exposure. One thing I see in both your sigs though is that you've bothe filed for divorce? Maybe personal but what went wrong after the exposure?

It typically takes about 2 days - max - to get the evidence. Your wife seems pretty brazen so it shouldn't be hard at all. IF you can get evidence, we can help you save this. If not, there is nothing we can do for you because this would be hopeless.

Yeah she's smart though. Deleting texts and as far as I can tell she's only seeing him about every 2 weeks. I'm still really uncomfortable with the whole legality of spying. I would not put it past her to force legal action if she were to find out.

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A whole year of enabling will be difficult to overcome, but your best hope is exposure. Certainly, you will have to stop enabling her affair if there is any hope.

Like Dr Harley told another man in this radio clip: it is hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler. here