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#2878376 03/18/16 05:33 PM
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So I'm trying to determine next steps in my relationship right now�

I'm pretty much convinced my wife is having an affair after first discovery of some in appropriate messages over 6 months ago and increasing signs since (distance, no intimacy, desire not to be touched, late nights and hidden texting). Any discussion around the possibility of an affair has been met with denial and fights between us. There is however some things that lead me to the possibility that a physical affair does not exists and that it's purely emotional (she doesn't see emotional affairs as real affairs).

I've been trying to take the high road, avoid the conversation and show nothing but love towards her, still she feels like I'm monitoring her and not giving her any space. It's hard not to notice what she's doing and suspicion is there. I've caught her in a few lies over the last few months so trust is definitely fractured, but none of the lies have necessarily indicated an affair.

At times over the last year she's questioned the value of marriage and often brought up the idea of an open marriage. She's now said she's checked out and not interested in working on the relationship anymore and has made plans to try living somewhere else for a few weeks but still wants daily contact with our child at our home.

Her ideal view of our marriage going forward is to have a functional marriage for the finances and care of our child. I'm not sure I can live like that but if it allows for some hope of a real marriage down the road then I'm open to it. Every now and then she gives positive vibes about a future together, talking about home improvements, raising our child etc and we've had some good lengthy healthy discussions with laughter.

So I'm currently faced of when to transition to "Plan B" and go completely cold with her, stick with "Plan A" for more time with loving and kindness. Alternatively, I could consider other options to accept her proposal for an open marriage (for the sake of our daughter and remain hopeful things may change down the road) or give up completely at this point in time and call it quits.

I'm still hopeful for a relationship but at the same time am caught up in this emotional rollercoaster. I am also debating whether confronting her one final time about the possibility of the affair but at this point feel it might push her further away and without any concrete evidence she would just continue to deny it. So I doubt any good would come of this path.


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Originally Posted by PacificLove
So I'm currently faced of when to transition to "Plan B" and go completely cold with her, stick with "Plan A" for more time with loving and kindness. Alternatively, I could consider other options to accept her proposal for an open marriage (for the sake of our daughter and remain hopeful things may change down the road) or give up completely at this point in time and call it quits.

I'm still hopeful for a relationship but at the same time am caught up in this emotional rollercoaster. I am also debating whether confronting her one final time about the possibility of the affair but at this point feel it might push her further away and without any concrete evidence she would just continue to deny it. So I doubt any good would come of this path.


Hi PL, welcome to Marriage Builders. The best thing you can do for your marriage is to stop accusing and start doing some super sleuthing. Get some spyware on her phone, a keylogger on her computer and a voice activated recorder in her car or any other place where she would speak to an affair partner. Do that and then come back and tell us what you find. We will help oyu with next steps.

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So I'm currently faced of when to transition to "Plan B" and go completely cold with her, stick with "Plan A" for more time with loving and kindness.

Plan B is not going cold, but even so you must first do Plan A, which is getting the facts and exposing the affair. You haven't done that yet.

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Alternatively, I could consider other options to accept her proposal for an open marriage (for the sake of our daughter and remain hopeful things may change down the road) or give up completely at this point in time and call it quits.

That is only an "alternative" if you don't give a crap about your wife and wish to destroy your marriage. You don't ever want to tell her you would consider such a thing, because that will demonstrate you don't care about her. She won't forget that you didn't care when her fog wears off.

It most certainly is not in your daughters best interest to have 2 parents who are committing adultery. It is in her best interest for you to PROTECT your marriage by busting up her affair.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I really struggle with the sleuthing aspect, most of all you have suggested is illegal in the state where I live.

I've seen the following so far:
Proof that she didn't come home one night when I was out of town (based on alarm system activity in the home)
Unexplained extended absences during the day
She called me by his name once in an argument
Plans to meet him for dinner recently that fell through - (over saw on her unlocked phone)
High mileage on the car when she's only supposed to be commuting to work
Receipt from a store near where he lives (50 miles away)

When you add it all up it tells me affair, but each one could probably have an excuse against it and is all circumstantial.

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I should also note she works in tech, so would easily latch on to any sort of tech sleuthing I'd be trying. It would likely not go undetected.

She's also said she's willing to divorce me if I continue to push on this - so I've been reluctant to come down hard as it would likely mean the end of our relationship. She's got childhood issues of being controlled and doesn't like living within rules or being controlled.

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
I really struggle with the sleuthing aspect, most of all you have suggested is illegal in the state where I live.

You need to figure it out, even if you have to hire a PI. Have you gone through her phone to read her emails and texts? This is the key to saving your marriage. You must get the facts.

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I've seen the following so far:
Proof that she didn't come home one night when I was out of town (based on alarm system activity in the home)
Unexplained extended absences during the day
She called me by his name once in an argument
Plans to meet him for dinner recently that fell through - (over saw on her unlocked phone)

She is married and she goes to dinner with men? Is there a reason why you would go along with this? Evne so it sounds like it should be very easy to get the evidence. You just have to get to work.

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When you add it all up it tells me affair, but each one could probably have an excuse against it and is all circumstantial.

It is not direct evidence of an affair. This is what you need to get asap.

The affair is the most pressing problem, but the fact that she goes out with men is very troubling. Is this something you have endorsed in the past? Do you have separate leisure lifestyles?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
I should also note she works in tech, so would easily latch on to any sort of tech sleuthing I'd be trying. It would likely not go undetected.

I doubt that. We have many waywards who work in IT and they never detect spyware.

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She's also said she's willing to divorce me if I continue to push on this - so I've been reluctant to come down hard as it would likely mean the end of our relationship. She's got childhood issues of being controlled and doesn't like living within rules or being controlled.

I am not telling you to "come down hard." I am telling you to get the FACTS so we can save your marriage. YOU ARE HEADED TO DIVORCE RIGHT NOW.

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She's got childhood issues of being controlled and doesn't like living within rules or being controlled.

The only person being "controlling" here is HER. It is not controlling to ask your spouse to stop abusing you. It *IS* controlling - and abusive - to force your spouse to tolerate your reckless, thoughtless behavior. That is what she is doing.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
I should also note she works in tech, so would easily latch on to any sort of tech sleuthing I'd be trying. It would likely not go undetected.

She's also said she's willing to divorce me if I continue to push on this - so I've been reluctant to come down hard as it would likely mean the end of our relationship. She's got childhood issues of being controlled and doesn't like living within rules or being controlled.

You'll just have to be careful on what you are doing. Placing the VAR strategically will do the trick. The keylogger and phone spyware are a little trickier, but can be done. Practice on your own phone first before deploying. Don't tip her off!


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Yes she goes to dinner with Men and I'm certainly not comfortable with it. However we are not on the same page of what we believe Marriage is right now. She wants the open marriage - I don't. so we are basically at a cross-roads.

The guy friends she goes out with are all married as well - and according to her their spouses are "ok" with it. I don't buy that argument.... She does work in an industry where it's mostly male, so her rationale is that it's all casual and mostly work discussion (usually it's lunches, but every now and then it's a quick dinner). She also goes out lots 1-1 with her girlfriends.

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Yes she goes to dinner with Men and I'm certainly not comfortable with it. However we are not on the same page of what we believe Marriage is right now. She wants the open marriage - I don't. so we are basically at a cross-roads.

This is something you can address once you get the facts about the affair and take steps to bust it up. If that is her philosophy of marriage, you are looking at your future. But you wont have a chance to persuade her to change her philosophy as long as she is having an affair.

The open marriage desire makes me think she is associating with swingers. Could that be the case?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Are you married? How long? Do you have kids? How old are they?

How did your relationship start?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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She's defiantly been associating with swingers which I think have influenced her towards that way of life. We've even discussed it within our marriage and came close to trying it at one point but it never worked out. But that was more me grasping at straws to try and rebuild things.

married 10 years one child that's 9. We started long distance so we didn't really have much of a courtship, something her Councillor has reminder her of (at least she's in councilling). She's definitely in a confused state right now - struggling with identity and what she wants in a relationship.

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
She's defiantly been associating with swingers which I think have influenced her towards that way of life. We've even discussed it within our marriage and came close to trying it at one point but it never worked out. But that was more me grasping at straws to try and rebuild things.

Thanks. Glad it didn't work out because it is so destructive.

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married 10 years one child that's 9. We started long distance so we didn't really have much of a courtship, something her Councillor has reminder her of (at least she's in councilling). She's definitely in a confused state right now - struggling with identity and what she wants in a relationship.

I can imagine she is very confused if she is seeing a counselor. Unfortunately, they are terrible for marriages. Instead of reminded her of how your marriage started, a qualified counselor would be telling her to make your marriage great.

Even so, you have a very difficult situation because of your wife's philosophy of marriage. She will never be able to sustain a marriage with her marriage wrecking practices of swinging, independent lifestyle and opposite sex friendships. It is a long shot, but you might be able to persuade her to stop those practices if you can get the evidence of her affair and expose it. That is the most likely thing to wake her up from her destructive lifestyle.

Is she an alcoholic?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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No she's the complete opposite, doesn't drink at all! Knowing my wife (or at least thinking I know her with all the deceit) exposing the affair (if there is one) will surely end it. She almost walked out the first time I brought it up. My best hope I think is that hope it dies a quick death although it's been going on for >1 year already, or that I somehow accept her indiscretions and lover her for who she is.

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
No she's the complete opposite, doesn't drink at all! Knowing my wife (or at least thinking I know her with all the deceit) exposing the affair (if there is one) will surely end it. She almost walked out the first time I brought it up. My best hope I think is that hope it dies a quick death although it's been going on for >1 year already, or that I somehow accept her indiscretions and lover her for who she is.

Knowing adulterers, the best hope for your marriage is to expose it. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so even if this does die eventually, her fog will not. Which means she will just have more affairs. Exposure is most powerful weapon against an affair because it ruins the fantasy and is the most likely thing to motivate her to change and work on the marriage. '

Keeping it a secret only serves to enable the affair, and it is impossible to save if you are enabling it.

Were you interested in saving your marriage? No guarantees, but your ideas are guaranteed to destroy your marriage. You can't enable your way to a good marriage.

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or that I somehow accept her indiscretions and lover her for who she is.

Why don't you just do that right now? Just accept that you are #2 or #3 man and be done with it. Quite honestly, your complacent approach reflects an astonishing lack of care. Being an enabler does not demonstrate care at all. If your child grew up and became a heroin freak would you use similar lame excuses? Or would you try to help the child recover?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."


Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Listen to Mel...exposure works! Plan Pac...will not...you are dealing with something foreign to YOU...but not to those on this site. You're here to save your marriage. Hear me...I waited to expose...just like you...and I can tell you one thing...WISH I WOULDVE DONE IT SOONER WHEN THEY TOLD ME TOO! Waiting is plan Pac...not plan marriage restoration.


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Definitely interested in saving the relationship and if I can get the proof will plan the exposure. One thing I see in both your sigs though is that you've bothe filed for divorce? Maybe personal but what went wrong after the exposure?

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Definitely interested in saving the relationship and if I can get the proof will plan the exposure.

It typically takes about 2 days - max - to get the evidence. Your wife seems pretty brazen so it shouldn't be hard at all. IF you can get evidence, we can help you save this. If not, there is nothing we can do for you because this would be hopeless.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Yeah she's smart though. Deleting texts and as far as I can tell she's only seeing him about every 2 weeks. I'm still really uncomfortable with the whole legality of spying. I would not put it past her to force legal action if she were to find out.

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
My best hope I think is that hope it dies a quick death although it's been going on for >1 year already, or that I somehow accept her indiscretions and lover her for who she is.

A whole year of enabling will be difficult to overcome, but your best hope is exposure. Certainly, you will have to stop enabling her affair if there is any hope.

Like Dr Harley told another man in this radio clip: it is hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler. here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Yeah she's smart though. Deleting texts and as far as I can tell she's only seeing him about every 2 weeks. I'm still really uncomfortable with the whole legality of spying. I would not put it past her to force legal action if she were to find out.

The bigger risk you are facing is DIVORCE, though. Are you "uncomfortable" with enabling the end of your marriage because you wouldn't lift a finger to save it?

Are you very "comfortable" with her affair? Are you very "comfortable" with divorce? You sure seem to be extremely complacent.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
I've been trying to take the high road, avoid the conversation and show nothing but love towards her, still she feels like I'm monitoring her and not giving her any space. It's hard not to notice what she's doing and suspicion is there.

Enabling an affair is taking the LOW ROAD, my friend. That is not what a caring spouse does. You sit around and act like you "don't notice" while she destroys your marriage? That just shows that you don't CARE about your marriage or her. You are the "friend" who drives his alcoholic friend to the bar. Sticking your head in the sand has not worked and will NEVER work. If she ever wakes up from her fog, she will remember that you sat by idly and did absolutely nothing to save your marriage. She will not remember you fondly.

Women want a man who cares about them. Your actions indicate that you do not.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Do you have an idea who the OM is? Is he married?


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Yeah it's her ex colleague. He was married but believe he recently separated with her as he moved to a new place in January. (Home to apartment)

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Believe me I'm not complacent - I want this out in the open and to start rebuilding trust. I've seen enough tonight to know she's at least having an emotional affair with this guy, enough to confront? or should I be patient to see if there's anything more?


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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Believe me I'm not complacent - I want this out in the open and to start rebuilding trust. I've seen enough tonight to know she's at least having an emotional affair with this guy, enough to confront? or should I be patient to see if there's anything more?
Don't confront. Get ready to expose. Have you read the exposure thread?

What is your evidence that she's having an emotional affair?


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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Yeah it's her ex colleague. He was married but believe he recently separated with her as he moved to a new place in January. (Home to apartment)
So he is still married? Seperated is not the same as divorced.

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Believe me I'm not complacent - I want this out in the open and to start rebuilding trust. I've seen enough tonight to know she's at least having an emotional affair with this guy, enough to confront? or should I be patient to see if there's anything more?

You need evidence of the affair. Facts such as who, what, when, where, to what degree, in order to figure out a plan. Please use some of the snooping methods suggested several posts back. Go to the Operation Investigate section for more detailed info. You deserve to know the truth and it is not coming from your wife. If you tip her off, she'll hide it better.

Come here with anything you find out, and the forum can help you with the next step.

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One thing I haven't seen addressed here is the legality of the snooping, if a full exposure is planned (with evidence) do you guys not worry about any potential fall out in states where this is all illegal?


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Also any tips on finding out the other guys wife? I've been googling every which way to Sunday and can't seem to put a name to her.

He's in high tech too (security none the less) so his online info is very scarce.

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
One thing I haven't seen addressed here is the legality of the snooping, if a full exposure is planned (with evidence) do you guys not worry about any potential fall out in states where this is all illegal?


My XWH tried to claim that I had obtained information illegally (about his finances). He said I had hacked into his account. I just said that he left his papers lying around and that was the end of the matter. Equally I could have said that he left his computer open and logged in. For snooping you have to prove intent.

Of course you are permitted to put spyware on anything that is marital but test it by installing on your device first to make sure it is truly invisible. Equally there is nothing to stop you putting a var under the passenger seat of the car or somewhere in the marital home where she is likely to be making secret calls.

Mostly you do not ever need to reveal your sources. My information on the Fat Slag came from backups of his device. He thought he had been really clever by hiding her information under a business name but forgot about search. I found a phone number he had been calling a lot and I just looked for it :-) Waywards are very dumb.


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Found her... still trying to get a number. Would you guys recommend reaching out to her to see if she's got any evidence of the affair? If they are separated she may already know about it but doesn't know who its with.

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
One thing I haven't seen addressed here is the legality of the snooping, if a full exposure is planned (with evidence) do you guys not worry about any potential fall out in states where this is all illegal?

What is your evidence that is illegal? I think you are way too hung up on this. We have helped people through thousands of exposures and never has anyone got into legal trouble for snooping. The reason is because it is not in the best interest of the WS to further expose herself/himself by bringing their adultery to the attention of law enforcement.

Did you read the advice to hire a PI? I am certain a PI could get everything you need in a couple of carefully selected days.

Please take your time and go read these 2 threads: Exposure 101

and this one: wifedivorcing's thread


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Found her... still trying to get a number. Would you guys recommend reaching out to her to see if she's got any evidence of the affair? If they are separated she may already know about it but doesn't know who its with.

Do you have evidence of the affair already?


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Does the OM have a facebook page?


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OM = Other Man? Yes he does but its completely locked down, no friend lists visible and he's not connected to my wife.

I've gotten his wife's phone #, tempted to text her to see if she suspects anything - perhaps we can collaborate together.

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The best evidence I have is of intimate conversations between the two of them (non sexually related), to me that's sufficient to constitute that she's not emotionally invested in me but in someone else.

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
OM = Other Man? Yes he does but its completely locked down, no friend lists visible and he's not connected to my wife.

I've gotten his wife's phone #, tempted to text her to see if she suspects anything - perhaps we can collaborate together.

I would hold off for now until you have more evidence. Can you see some of the OM's FB posts and see the people who liked them?


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Originally Posted by PacificLove
The best evidence I have is of intimate conversations between the two of them (non sexually related), to me that's sufficient to constitute that she's not emotionally invested in me but in someone else.

What do you mean by intimate? An affair is a romantic relationship. Do you have evidence of that?


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by PacificLove
OM = Other Man? Yes he does but its completely locked down, no friend lists visible and he's not connected to my wife.

I've gotten his wife's phone #, tempted to text her to see if she suspects anything - perhaps we can collaborate together.

I would hold off for now until you have more evidence. Can you see some of the OM's FB posts and see the people who liked them?


No can't even see his photo. It's completely locked down. as far as exposure goes I can really only expose it to him, his wife, my wife and perhaps a friend or two of my wife's. Both our parents are distant (and hers don't speak English). I really struggle with this concept too - bringing it out in the public. I feel it should be kept between us and them (his wife definitely deserves to know but if they are already separated/divorced she may not care.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by PacificLove
The best evidence I have is of intimate conversations between the two of them (non sexually related), to me that's sufficient to constitute that she's not emotionally invested in me but in someone else.

What do you mean by intimate? An affair is a romantic relationship. Do you have evidence of that?


Not all affairs are romantic, there are such things as Emotional Affairs where the spouse is emotionally invested outside the relationship but not necessarily romantically involved.

The samples I have:
Sharing sympathy towards each other over some news
He made some comments to my wife looking hot in an outfit


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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by PacificLove
OM = Other Man? Yes he does but its completely locked down, no friend lists visible and he's not connected to my wife.

I've gotten his wife's phone #, tempted to text her to see if she suspects anything - perhaps we can collaborate together.

I would hold off for now until you have more evidence. Can you see some of the OM's FB posts and see the people who liked them?


No can't even see his photo. It's completely locked down. as far as exposure goes I can really only expose it to him, his wife, my wife and perhaps a friend or two of my wife's. Both our parents are distant (and hers don't speak English). I really struggle with this concept too - bringing it out in the public. I feel it should be kept between us and them (his wife definitely deserves to know but if they are already separated/divorced she may not care.

What can we do for you? Because if you are not here to follow this program, there isn't anything we can do for you.



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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Not all affairs are romantic, there are such things as Emotional Affairs where the spouse is emotionally invested outside the relationship but not necessarily romantically involved.

The definition of an affair is a romantic relationship outside of marriage. That can be either emotional or physical. If it is not romantic, it is not an affair.


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Based on what you said, this is a physical affair. Call a PI. You will have evidence to convince a jury within a couple days.

If you don't expose, she gets to lie with no consequences. Never be afraid to tell the truth. (i bet you told your kiddo this before.)

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You SHOULDN'T need to disclose your snooping sources EVER. Even once you have clear evidence. Get the goods and come back here for help.

The fact that he commented on how she looked hot, is a red flag.

Do what Mel suggested and hire a P.I. You need significant facts before telling his wife. Otherwise the affair will go underground and you may never know the truth.

You are wasting valuable time needed to save YOUR marriage.

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Not all affairs are romantic, there are such things as Emotional Affairs where the spouse is emotionally invested outside the relationship but not necessarily romantically involved.
That is a distinction without a difference. What is the difference between romantic and emotional, when we are talking about a spouse becoming close to someone else?

In fact, it actually does not make sense. How can it be an affair if it is not romantic?


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Originally Posted by PacificLove
I'm pretty much convinced my wife is having an affair after first discovery of some in appropriate messages over 6 months ago and increasing signs since (distance, no intimacy, desire not to be touched, late nights and hidden texting).
Do you believe she's having an affair, or don't you? And if you do, what do you intend to do about it?

If you're here to teach us what is and isn't an affair, you're wasting your time!


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Originally Posted by PacificLove
No can't even see his photo. It's completely locked down.
Google this: >"name OM" site:facebook.com<
You will probably find postings/comments of OM on some of his friends FB. Now you know a couple of possible friends.

Also check google images, same search. You will find a lot of avatars, some of those avatars belong to his friends. You will find pictures of friends he commented on or liked.
Now you know more possible friends.

Create new FB account. Play silly game (candy crush), invite lots of game playing strangers to be your friend. Now you have a snoop account. Invite one of his candy cruch playing friends to be your friend (some people friend anyone just for this game).

If this person accepts you as friend, all of a suden you see more posts and photos of OM. You are "friend of a friend" and you can check "likes" to find his friends.

I bet completely locked down won't be completely locked down anymore.

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Still gathering facts, she keeps deleting the texts so it's really hard to get any full conversations. I picked up a few things yesterday, definitely some flirting going on along with a proposal if he read a certain book (about relationships) would she sneak out to see him.

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Still gathering facts, she keeps deleting the texts so it's really hard to get any full conversations. I picked up a few things yesterday, definitely some flirting going on along with a proposal if he read a certain book (about relationships) would she sneak out to see him.

But, there is no point to all this if you don't intend on using this intel for exposure. You told us yesterday you didn't believe in bringing her affair out into the public. Has that changed?


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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Still gathering facts, she keeps deleting the texts so it's really hard to get any full conversations. I picked up a few things yesterday, definitely some flirting going on along with a proposal if he read a certain book (about relationships) would she sneak out to see him.

Voice activated recorder. Spyware. All stuff mentioned to you earlier. Get them and quick before she takes this underground.

And my advice is to stop questioning those here as to why you need to do something or another. The steps remain unchanged year in and out. They work. All the reasons why they work are on this site and in the books. Get reads.

We're pulling for you bro'.

Mss


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Long time no post... been bouncing between expose/no expose (I know exposure is the philosophy of this group) here's what I've got so far:

Texting back and forth (in one text she calls him her lover)
He kept inquiring for her to come spend the night
She's admitted to spending one night with him when I was away but "nothing happened"
When I confronted she admitted to an EA (but not a PA)
She moved out on 4/1
Since then she's been back and forth to see D (but usually left after went to bed or crashed in D's room) she's renting a room.
Lingerie was missing from her drawer last week
As far as I can tell she spent at least 1 night (possibly 3) at his place in the last week (Based on mileage checks before she left and the next day that line up exactly to the distance "his" place and back - 65 miles)

I have shared the A with close friends and family but we haven't discussed exposure and even they are reluctant to expose (not convinced it's the right approach). I also spoke to my pastor who wasn't in favor of exposing.

She hasn't requested a D, only time to figure things out. I believe the A has been going on for at least 12 months, possibly 18 months. OM has already left his W - apparently because he walked in on her having an A but I think my W was twisting this and maybe she walked in on them.

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Long time no post... been bouncing between expose/no expose (I know exposure is the philosophy of this group) here's what I've got so far:

Texting back and forth (in one text she calls him her lover)
He kept inquiring for her to come spend the night
She's admitted to spending one night with him when I was away but "nothing happened"
When I confronted she admitted to an EA (but not a PA)
She moved out on 4/1
Since then she's been back and forth to see D (but usually left after went to bed or crashed in D's room) she's renting a room.
Lingerie was missing from her drawer last week
As far as I can tell she spent at least 1 night (possibly 3) at his place in the last week (Based on mileage checks before she left and the next day that line up exactly to the distance "his" place and back - 65 miles)

I have shared the A with close friends and family but we haven't discussed exposure and even they are reluctant to expose (not convinced it's the right approach). I also spoke to my pastor who wasn't in favor of exposing.

She hasn't requested a D, only time to figure things out. I believe the A has been going on for at least 12 months, possibly 18 months. OM has already left his W - apparently because he walked in on her having an A but I think my W was twisting this and maybe she walked in on them.
So, how can we help you?


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by PacificLove
Long time no post... been bouncing between expose/no expose (I know exposure is the philosophy of this group) here's what I've got so far:

Texting back and forth (in one text she calls him her lover)
He kept inquiring for her to come spend the night
She's admitted to spending one night with him when I was away but "nothing happened"
When I confronted she admitted to an EA (but not a PA)
She moved out on 4/1
Since then she's been back and forth to see D (but usually left after went to bed or crashed in D's room) she's renting a room.
Lingerie was missing from her drawer last week
As far as I can tell she spent at least 1 night (possibly 3) at his place in the last week (Based on mileage checks before she left and the next day that line up exactly to the distance "his" place and back - 65 miles)

I have shared the A with close friends and family but we haven't discussed exposure and even they are reluctant to expose (not convinced it's the right approach). I also spoke to my pastor who wasn't in favor of exposing.

She hasn't requested a D, only time to figure things out. I believe the A has been going on for at least 12 months, possibly 18 months. OM has already left his W - apparently because he walked in on her having an A but I think my W was twisting this and maybe she walked in on them.
So, how can we help you?


Yeah I suppose I should ask some quesitons:

1) Is the evidence I have sufficient? ie proof she spent the night at some OM?
2) How does one go about trying to convince Family/Friends that Exposure is a good idea? (especially if I myself am not necessarily convinced)

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Did you read dr bill Harley's comments on the importance of exposure to recovery?


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Originally Posted by PacificLove
2) How does one go about trying to convince Family/Friends that Exposure is a good idea? (especially if I myself am not necessarily convinced)

You don't need to convince family/friends of anything, you just need to do it. Feel skeptical, and do it anyhow.

Exposure is counterintuitive to most people who have not studied the dynamics of affairs. But Dr. Harley has helped thousands of marriages recover from infidelity. He and the people here helping you KNOW that:

1. The affair MUST be stopped if you have any hope of recovering your marriage.

2. The longer the affair continues, the worse your marriage's chance at ever recovering.

3. Exposure is the absolute best tool to kill an affair.

4. Exposure is the best way to protect yourself from your wayward spouse rewriting history where you're the bad guy (which can affect you financially and with custody rights) should your marriage fail to recover, even if you decide you do not want to recover it.

Your family, friends, and pastor may mean well, but they do not know what they're talking about. And so what if they think it's unwise and you do it anyhow. Are they going to banish you because you made a different decision than they would have? It's hardly like your wayward wife checked with friends, family, and clergy to see if it was a "good idea" before she betrayed you.

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
2) How does one go about trying to convince Family/Friends that Exposure is a good idea? (especially if I myself am not necessarily convinced)

One doesn't do this. One just exposes. It works whether people agree or not.

In general, life is too short trying to waste time persuading people that you made the best choices.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Convincing your friends and family about exposure is NOT one of the steps in the recovery program. Just follow the program - it works. Don't add steps.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Get it done. Dont ask their approval.

Also, Ephesians 5:11 tells us how to deal with sexual immorality in the church -- Have nothing to do with fruitless deeds of darkness but rather expose them.
Your pastor needs to check his Bible.

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Have you talked with OM's BW?


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you talked with OM's BW?


No they are separated on and the Divorce path based on what my W has told me... she told me that he walked in on her with OM but I have a hunch it might have been the other way around - her walking in on my W with OM.

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BTW do you all think the evidence I've gathered is sufficient enough or do I need to go deeper?

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Long time no post... been bouncing between expose/no expose (I know exposure is the philosophy of this group) here's what I've got so far:

First off, it is not "the philosophy of this group;" it is the philosophy of Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist who has saved thousands of marriages in these situations. Every person on this forum who is in a recovered marriage attributes it to exposure. The longer you wait, the LESS effective it will be.

Quote
Texting back and forth (in one text she calls him her lover)
He kept inquiring for her to come spend the night
She's admitted to spending one night with him when I was away but "nothing happened"When I confronted she admitted to an EA (but not a PA)

Her admission is your evidence. Of course they slept together. You know they did.

Quote
She moved out on 4/1

Harder to save your marriage now. But if you want to have any chance, you will have to expose and follow the advice on this forum.

Quote
I have shared the A with close friends and family but we haven't discussed exposure and even they are reluctant to expose (not convinced it's the right approach). I also spoke to my pastor who wasn't in favor of exposing.

First off, keeping the affair a secret is an unbiblical approach and those who are against exposure have no experience in saving marriages. Most people believe affairs should be kept secret. BUT, most people have no earthly idea how to save marriages.

Quote
She hasn't requested a D, only time to figure things out. I believe the A has been going on for at least 12 months, possibly 18 months. OM has already left his W - apparently because he walked in on her having an A but I think my W was twisting this and maybe she walked in on them.

The longer the affair goes on without exposure, the harder it will be to save it. One of the first things you will want to do is speak to the OM's wife and find out the truth.

How long have you known about this affair?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you talked with OM's BW?


No they are separated on and the Divorce path based on what my W has told me... she told me that he walked in on her with OM but I have a hunch it might have been the other way around - her walking in on my W with OM.

The only thing you know about the OMW was told to you by a liar. The OM and his wife may very well be together. This affair probably could have been killed months ago if you would have exposed it.

Perhaps the OM did leave his wife for your wife, but that is not very typical. Most married men don't leave their wives for some cheap side action.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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When will you be exposing? When will you be contacting OM's BW?


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
When will you be exposing? When will you be contacting OM's BW?

Still figuring out timing and who, I wont go nuclear if I do expose, I will tell her BF, the OM's BW and maybe my Daughter - she's 10 not sure I want to bring her into this or not.

I'm not sure her BF would be good or bad though... she's recently divorced and was on the other side (Betrayed by her H) so not sure she'll be for or against the M. I've also remained friends with her H which I know has been difficult with her. I also wonder whether this gives my W and her the feeling I'm "ok" with cheaters... (which I'm not, I never supported what he did but he's a friend nonetheless)


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Originally Posted by PacificLove
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
When will you be exposing? When will you be contacting OM's BW?

Still figuring out timing and who, I wont go nuclear if I do expose, I will tell her BF, the OM's BW and maybe my Daughter - she's 10 not sure I want to bring her into this or not.

I'm not sure her BF would be good or bad though... she's recently divorced and was on the other side (Betrayed by her H) so not sure she'll be for or against the M. I've also remained friends with her H which I know has been difficult with her. I also wonder whether this gives my W and her the feeling I'm "ok" with cheaters... (which I'm not, I never supported what he did but he's a friend nonetheless)

Half measures will avail you nothing. I wouldn't bother exposing at all. It will be a waste of your time if you do this little trickle, trickle, trickle. It will just piss off your wife for absolutely no good reason.

If you have a raging blood infection, do you do a little trickle, trickle, trickle of antibiotics? Or do you do what is necessary to kill the infection? For some reason, that I cannot fathom, you don't want to expose this affair.

I don't give this any hope until you start taking it seriously yourself.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Also, you could gift her with a new phone and new number. smile

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