I have found out that my husband has been having an affair for two or more years and we have started reading Surviving an Affair together. I have asks some questions about the affair and I get it in small doses but I don't believe he is telling the truth and it is making me crazy. Like was the affair going on why I was pregnant? He says no and relations took place four months after my third child was born. I guess if he is lying about these details what else don't I know that I should? What questions should I ask?

The other question I have is; His best mate offered a room for the mistress to move into when she got kicked out of her own home and it was a safe haven for the affair to continue for the two plus years, those that new and supported the unfaithfulness including family that lied for him, how am I meant to deal with them? because right now I don't want to ever see them again, the endured turmoil could have ended so much sooner.

Hi hickstt, welcome to Marriage Builders. Your husband should sit down and answer all your questions truthfully in one last discussion. After you have all the facts it should not be brought up again.

The "friends" and family who knew about and condoned the affair should be cut out of your lives entirely. They are enemies of your marriage.

Has the affair been exposed to everyone on your side and the OW's side? Did you inform her family? Has all contact ended between the OW and your H? How close does he live and work to the OW?

Where do you stand on this checklist from Survivng an Affair?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Ask him to take a polygraph to prove that he is telling the truth and to help EARN back your trust. A WH who is serious and committed to recovery will do whatever it takes.


Waywards love to try to sweep things under the rug. It is up to you to drive the recovery bus and to insist on implementing all the EP's...to keep you interested in the marriage. Otherwise, you are investing in a marriage still at risk for affairs or a restart of this affair.

Does your WH work with this OW? Does he still hang with his so called "best mate" and expect you to suck it up?

This is the last chapter we read two days ago. His father had knowledge of the affair when it started and told him to stop it and my husband told him to say out of his life but kept it secret from me, despite many phone calls to him telling him that his son had become very abusive to me and my children and asking for help, they said nothing, "its a ten year itch," his father said. All his family new except his mother and said nothing. People that we do business with all new, it was common knowledge to everyone but me.

I called his mother yesterday afternoon and told her. His parents split up for the same reason. The father engaged in an affair with a family friends wife and their marriage ended. His father choose to be with the other woman and is still with her today. When I got home and told him that I had spoken to his mother he was disappointed, he then called her later in the evening and is not talking to me today. I have to say I feel better today and her support was welcome.

None of my family know and my reluctance is that I come from a Greek family and I guess it is self preservation of self esteem for me. The only other people I have spoken to is my doctor and the other woman's husband. His mother is coming over on the weekend and my husband says he does not want to be here when she comes. I know I have to tell my mother, (she looks after my 2 year old on Mondays and stays overnight) and see more turmoil ahead for my husband and disappointment from my mother because she thinks the world of him.

My husbands best friend opened his home up to my husband and the mistress, I fear this relationship will not be dissolved and know that he talks to him regularly,(his wife left him because he was very abusive to her).

We are working through this check list. I now have access (to what I know of) possible ways to communicate, I am aware that he deletes messages sent from him best friend because he says I would find them offensive and he does not leave his phone in the open so I don't know what incoming calls he receives, but do get his phone bill.

My husband is a owner operator truck drive, so it gives him a lot of freedom and the option for working for an employer is something that has been discussed but he does not seem keen on the idea. The man we bought it off; it was his wife that my husband had the affair with. I would like it sold but I don't know if he will do this. The mistress was kicked out by her husband when discovered and they continued the affair. She left her 25 year marriage, home and children and chose to continue the affair. This is when things went from bad to worse for me and I intended to leave the marriage anyway because I was an emotional wreck and my health had deteriorated and the kids where also being mistreated. I still had no knowledge of the affair at this time. The mistress moved away but believe she is back in town. He says he has not talked to her and she has his number blocked anyway. Overnight separation has stopped, he still draws cash out of the bank but it is much less. This I find frustrating because his father has the opinion that it is his money and he can spend it however he wishes. So we are still working on this. My husbands father is wealthy and mine is not and his father is probably protecting his money from me, (married 10 years, three children). Any good fortune that was give to my husband by his dad, thousand of dollars, was spent on himself. I never had a wedding or honeymoon because his dad said it was a waste of money, yet he had a second wedding.

I don't know if the marriage will work at the end of this program because there are many issues. One of which is his loyalty is to his father and not to me. His father does not have any respect for me and talks to me badly, he has cut me out of the family trust behind my back and my husband supported these choices. Despite his father saying sorry and I have forgiven him many times, it seems to repeat itself and I have chosen to cut him out of my life but not my husbands or children's. We have agreed to work though this book which he bought and see where it takes us. I guess my next step is telling my mum?

I would start by exposing the affair to all of these folks. In addition, the affair should be exposed to the OW's family. It helps NO ONE, most especually your husband for you to keep this a secret. The more people who know, the more people to hold him accountable and give you support. Your family needs to know so they can support you. Of course your family will be disappointed. That is a natural reaction.


He should have nothing to do with this friend. You need to be very assertive about ending this relationship with this piece of crap.


Your husband is in luck because all of those deleted messages can be retrieved using software called Wondershare Mrfone. You have a right to see everything on his phone. Hiding texts from you is a dealbreaker. There can be NO secrets in order to recover your marriage. I would install some secret spyware so you know everything without his knowing.


If his job allows him to conduct his affair, then he needs to find a new job.

You have many obstacles here but if he will make a radical change in his lifestyle, you have a chance. If not, you should separate from him very soon. If he won't make these changes, I promise you are looking at your future.

Your mother can handle the truth. It is the deception that hurts the most including you allowing her to believe that your WH is someone he is not. You need her support. Your WH can redeem himself if he makes the choice to change his life around.



The fact that your WH still considers that man to be a friend and is still in contact with him is offensive.

I guarantee you that OW is still pursuing your WH behind your back. It is up to your WH to take the steps to insure that OW cannot contact him again. To say that OW has him blocked is meaningless.

Your WH is trying to sweep things under the rug and is gaslighting you.

Be strong and also be aware that you will not recover until your WH decides to make radical changes to protect you and the marriage.

My husbands mother is coming over on the weekend and I told her about the affair. As expected he was upset and I notified him that I would be telling my mother as well. He does not want to see his mother when she comes and is going to run away to his fathers house. I know it would be best for him to face them but I know he won't. How long is he expected to hide from them?

I think the affair friendship started when I was pregnant and the act shortly after my son was born. This makes that affair nearly 3 years, he only acknowledges it being about two years. Does this detail really matter or am I obsessing, it upsets me to know that he is possibly lying. We have tried to discuss the affair many times and he does not want to talk about it. I just want to get this step out of the way but, running away from his problems is a general theme and so is Dad saving him when he has done wrong. Should I ask his Dad to tell him to face his mother or not force him and let it takes it course and let him do it when he is ready?

Never heard of a grown man hiding from hims momma. Maybe he needs to grow a pair?


I wouldn't do anything other than hand him a pacifier. Honestly, I have never heard of a grown man behaving like this. How old is this boy?

If I were his mother I would be SO ASHAMED.

My husband is 40 year old. His father has been controlling him most of his life and making decisions for him. His father also still holds resentment for his mother and instilled values which have no place in a marriage. His father loves being the hero and public lets everyone know how much he does for his family. But fails to realize that his wealth is also built on the efforts of his family working along side him 6 days a week 12 hours a days. And when you get paid for your efforts its a gift, forget that we worked for it.
His mother however does have the right values and will not sugar coat anything.
Should I just let him face her when he is ready?

We go by "actions" here and your WH actions say that he is not serious. He will not get serious until YOU get serious.

My FWH acted much like yours. I ended up with a second dday and that was even more tramatic then the first to find that he was still deceiving me despite his lip service. That is where you are headed.

I had to get serious and my FWH had to see that I was serious before he made the choice to stand up. I gave him my list of conditions (EP's) which would keep me interested in the marriage.


You need to add: (to the checklist Melody posted)

a polygraph
NC for life with scumbag mate and father
sell the truck
anything else you feel that you need.

You can do this. Don't sign up for a death of a thousand cuts.

I would plan to separate from him if stays in touch with his father and stays away over night. Let him know that is not acceptable. That should be a deal breaker.

I spoke to his mother. Our life stories were the same with great accuracy, (truck, fairlane, neglect, not part of the decisions, affair) and with his dad controlling his life it was like a freight train. He does not see by his dad making the decision that impacted our lives. Not only was I working a full time job, I had to look after three children and do truck bookkeeping which took time away from us and doing a degree. I was probably left with a few hours sleep and then the affair started four months after my third child.

I cannot confirm if they are still talking. He does not want to see his mother ever again. In his mind sharing her story with me has ended our marriage. So I said if you cannot see your mother, you give me reason to believe that it is still going on. So he is moving out and I feel that it is over. He has not grown up, will run to his father when things don't go his way.

My only regret is that I know my kids love there dad and our family is destroyed and it is unlikely that it can be put back together not because of the affair but because he has not grown up. Does he not love them enough to face his mother?

His father has a narcissistic personality and it is the reason for our marriage breakdown. I was the third wheel in the marriage. And he has grown up with his dad and developed the incorrect values, separate bank accounts, my money is mine, your not my mother (no flowers on mother day), forgotten birthdays. I am writing this and I think what the hell am I doing, trying to save a marriage for my children. Yes I do love him but I don't think anything is going to change, we are only up to chapter 6 in the book, we still can't get past the start line. I told his mother more than a week ago, is his anger part of the exposure, for how long?

This is typical wayward blame shifting. Of course the marriage ending has nothing to do with you telling his mother about his affair or sharing stories. That is ridiculous.

Anger over exposure is a good thing because it means you hit a nerve and your WH really does have a good moral compass and is aware that his actions are wrong. The problem is that he is not ready to take accountability and to change his lifestyle to redeem himself and rebuild the marriage.


You give his father too much credit for your WH's bad behaviour. Your WH knows full well the hurt from his father's behaviour and is fully capable of making the choice to not be that person. Why do you think he doesn't want to see his mother?



Has he actually moved out or is he still at home getting his needs met by you and the kids?

Sometimes it takes a big dose of reality for people to change. Sometimes even that is not enough.

You cannot control your WH's choices but you can control your own life and how you will be treated.

It is awesome that his mother is putting pressure on the affair! You have made the affair worse for him by exposing to his mother. Keep up the good work.

He collected his clothes today and I have told him that unless he faces his mother I don't want him back in the house. He said he will do it when he is ready. I told him that it will be to late when your ready and I'm tired of waiting for you to be ready. Everyone has to ask once and I am a broken record, I am not a priority in your life and I need to get that through my thick head and stop lying to myself. When will I ever be important in your life to remember and the answer is never. I left the house while he collected his clothes and he did not want to see the kids because he said it would be to hard for him and blames others for his choice. And I just said if you still think that, you have not learnt one thing.

He believes that his mum discussing the his parents affair (that his father denies) lead us to the point where we are now and never wants to see her again. Because his father did it to his mother and his father lies about the details of his affair. I think he would have a hard time lying to his mother, but he can get away with lying to his father. His dad and I have a love hate relationship. He cannot control me and does not pay my wages, but he gave us money for our home and it is forever being thrown in my face, "just remember who gave you your start in life." What we worked for ten years if it was a gift, I have no idea.

I think you are getting a bit sidetracked, here. What is needed to recover your marriage? Simply put - the establishment of extraordinary precautions that make this and any future affair essentially impossible, total transparency that makes a secret second life impossible, and the re-establishment of a romantic marriage that meets the most important emotional needs of both of you. That is where your concentration needs to be if recovery is a sincere goal of yours. Dragging inlaw conflicts into the process complicates things. It does not directly address the primary concerns, and it lowers the overall probability that your marriage will recover.

I suggest you remove the inlaw issue from your list of demands and concentrate on what really matters.

I got a text message from the mistress husband saying that they are still taking and dates that she was in town. My husband was doing a truck trip around that time and did not put me on speaker in the truck. He led me to believe that he called his mother and was outside for half an hour (they day I told his mother). His mother called me the next day saying she had not heard from her son. He says he was not talking to anyone. I don't know if the code is he rings her and she does not pick up and he returns the call so it does not show on his phone account. This was another reason I asked him to leave. I don't know the truth or a lie anymore.


Anything I have asked my husband to do, I have to wait until he is ready, after everyone in front of me and my kids. He cannot even put me in front of his own needs. My son is still waiting for him to sit with him to put a model bike together that he bought nine months ago, I have been asking for him to fix the fence around the house for three years. I asked him to get an STD test and he said she has been married for 20 years. Yet, his mate needs to drill holes in the their back yard and he is there with the truck, backhoe in a day.

I need him to see his mother to show me that the affair is over because I know he cannot lie to her and that he can actually put what I want before his own. He says he misses his family but perhaps that does not include me because I have never been important enough to remember, this has been going on long before the affair. Because he would not help me, I have been carrying it all myself and I don't like who I have become. He know that once he see her that he can come home but he says he will do it when he is ready. If it were me I would be in the car in a heart beat. It is something I have asked him to do for me.

Right now he is requesting the phone number of where the text message came from because it is not from the mistresses husband phone and he want to contact them for spreading lies and is very angry. This could be damage control and there could be some truth in what they say?

If there is not truth in it, why waste time with it?

Are you reading our posts to you? Of course his affair is still active because he has a lifestyle that supports affairs. The OW's husband just called and told you this.

What you must do is affair proof your marriage. If he won't do that, then you should separate from him and go into Plan B. He should not be ABLE to have contact with the OW, however that is achieved. If you are together 24/7 then he can't cheat.

I would stop getting hung up on drama on focus entirely on affair proofing your marriage by removing the environment that led to the affair. His life should be so transparent that it will be impossible for him to cheat.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Just because you ask him to do something does not mean he has to do it, unless it is a matter of protection. For example, extraordinary precautions to protect you frmo another affair is a reasonable thing to DEMAND. Demadning that he put together a bike is not reasonable. And bringing up this type of stuff when your marriage is at such great risk is a distraction.


Of course it is reasonable to ask him to get STD testing. That is a matter of protecting your health. A non-negotiable issue.


This is a complete distraction and you need to drop it. Seeing his mother proves NOTHING. Extraordinary precautions and a completely transparent lifestyle will show you the affair is over. However, the OW's husband has already told you the affair is still active.

So what do I do now, he only left home on one day ago. The truck will be around for another couple of months, it will take time to sell this, he will get the STD test when he is ready. He is staying at his fathers and sends me a GPS shot of his location at night?

Should we stay this way until the truck is sold?

I would go to him with a plan in hand. The first part is affair proofing your marriage and protecting you from his affair. The plan is basically that he do everything on the checklist in addition to finding a job that would not allow him to have affairs. He would also need to get a new cell phone # and/or exchange phones with you right now. You need to think of every possible way he has to connect with the OW and he has to eliminate it. He also has to get STD testing, that is absolutely not negotiable. There can be no guesswork. You have to have PROOF that he not in contact.

The second part is to create a romantic marriage using these concepts.

If he can agree to all these steps and PROVE to you his affair is over, then you have a chance and he should come home.

If he won't do those things, tell him thank you, go home and change the locks and go into a dark Plan B.


That is proof of nothing. He can still hook up with the OW and talk all night with her. You need to get more savvy here.

I have asked him to come home and he does not want to as he believes that I will bring up seeing his mother every day. I have sent him the check list above and mentioned that I hope he sells the truck and changes his cell phone one day.

I know that he misses his kids. I think that is the most I can do at this time.

Will let you know what he comes back with in a few days time.

That is not enough. And telling him you "hope" he sells his truck and changes his cell phone is not enough. These are the only conditions under which you will be safe with him. Not doing those things has to be a deal breaker.

You need to contact him immediately and give him your conditions. He either agrees to every item and follows through with actions or you should change the locks and go into Plan B.

I would stop threatening him with his mother and ask her to come another time. Focus entirely on saving your marriage.

Let me make an important point: your husband will NEVER take this seriously unless YOU take it seriously. "Hoping" he takes certain steps and muddying the waters with completely unrelated issues [like bike building and seeing his mother] tells me you don't take this seriously yourself.

Hope is not a plan. Hope does not save marriages; ACTIONS do. Compliance with the checklist coupled with other affair proofing measures such as getting another occupation is the ONLY plan you should be following. If he won't follow that, then change the locks and send him a Plan B letter.

This is the Marriage Builders Guidance Forum. We are here to guide you through a proven program that restores marriages. We have restored our own marriages by following this program. You have been told what you need to do. You choose to ignore that and do your own thing. We don't need to hear what is going to happen, because we have seen it all before. Your husband is going to continue his affair, because there is no reason to stop. You will continue to assert different litmus tests like demanding that his mother confront him, all of which will serve to prove nothing, but will distract you from effectively addressing the affair. Your marriage will limp along until one of you decides to put an end to it.

So, are you interested in following a real recovery plan, or are you going to keep doing your own thing?

Your WH has been gaslighting you for so long that you are in your own fog. You know for a fact that your WH can look you in the eye and lie. He has been doing it for years.

Yet you believe there may be some truth in your WH's claim that this is some unknown person out to get your WH? Why don't you call the number yourself and find out how your WH is still communicating with OW? The OW's BS has opened the door for you to get some good evidence. Stop second guessing and VERIFY the facts. That is crucial in killing an affair.

It reminds me of the case where the wife caught her husband in bed with another woman and the husband convinced his wife that she imagined it.


Stop listening to him. Look at his actions. Has he agreed to anything on the list? Why are you asking him to come home when he is not at all interested in implementing the EP's and protecting you and the marriage?

It is a death of a thousand cuts.

From the check list is what we have done so far.

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse. UNKNOWN

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again. He says he has not spoken to her since December when I caught him out.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse. Did not happen, is it to late to do this if he is telling the truth about not speaking to her since December?

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP. I have access to his mobile phone bill, e-mail address and he has closed all social networking accounts.

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers). He is a truck driver and it is his business so that's why he cannot change the mobile phone at this time, until it is sold.

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent). He only draws small amounts from the bank now, not the thousands he was doing during the affair.

_____Spend leisure time together. We are separated, he is living with his dad

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary. As above

_____Avoid overnight separation. Living at Dad's

_____Allow technical accountability - Unsure of what this is?

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends. Done this step and he does not want to see him mother at all.

Now that we are separated and only communicate via text eg how is your day. I have sent him the check list again. I am feeling better that we are not arguing anymore but given what we have tried to achieve and he says he is not talking to her. He is stressed out over it all and I am like a yoyo and he says he cannot deal with it. I am trying to get under control and feel better that he has left the house.

Should I cut off all communication at this point? What is the recommendation noting what we have done already.

I know that I stayed in Plan A for to long many months and now I my health has gone down hill. I went to the doctor yesterday and my stomach is inflamed and is causing my chest pains regularly. They are still looking for a medical solution and I told him my circumstances at home and he said it has a lot to do with it.

I wrote the letter recommended in Plan B because I could no longer turn a blind eye top my health and sent it to my husband via email and to the mistress. Once I sent it my husband was constantly calling and I answer the phone and he said "could I come and see you and at least discuss this." He came over and I went to him with a plan as you mentioned. I stated to him that I don't believe that communication had ceased and because it has not been formally ended (just putting each others number on block, it did not make sense) and it is just an accident waiting to happen and I cannot go through this again. He told me that he spoke to her on Sunday to find out the reason why he was thrown out and also contact the mistresses husband. Their marriage has ended and he does not want ours to survive either. Admittedly I had no proof of communication, only a text message from the mistresses husband. But I know he wants revenge, so I don't know if he just suspects but I know he has lied to me as well and made matters worse, so I have chosen not to speak to him.

He does not want to move home until he has done the things on the checklist (because I will nag him until it is done) and believes it should take him a month, so he will not be moving back in until this is done. He has agreed to sell the truck and change his phone number and the STD test. I told him not to worry about seeing his mum as you said I am getting side tracked. The conversation was productive.

In plan B is says no contact and he does text me every day and tells me he loves and misses me. So I guess we are doing Part A & B trying to get off the starting blocks and meet emotional needs without love busters. Is there anything wrong with this or am I going to set myself up for a fall again? I don't believe he has written the letter to her yet in the check list. Should I suggest this or wait for him to do it so I know it is genuine?

Were you under the influence of narcotics when you wrote the above statements?

The problem is that you are not taking this seriously and are being willfully obtuse. I am not sure how we can help someone who is being silly.

Lied to you? He told you the truth! The only liar here is your husband. YOUR HUSBAND EVEN TOLD YOU HE WAS STILL IN CONTACT. So what is the BH lying about?? This poor BH has tried to help you wake up but you would rather pretend that HE is the liar rather than your LIAR husband. That is DELUSIONAL.

Your husband is a demonstrated, practiced LIAR who has victimized this betrayed husband. The liar here is your husband, of course.

I remember when I contacted the BH in my own case. He accused me of manufacturing things and being a jealous, raging, vengeful person. I was dumbfounded by that because we had known each other for a few years and I was never that person.

It wasn't until I found MB that I saw in all the other threads that it is a common wayward tactic to accuse the other BS of being a psycho. Most of the time the BS believes it even when it makes no sense.

The BH in your case is not being vengeful...he is trying to help you protect yourself. Your marriage is failing because your husband is continuing his affair and gaslighting you. Not because the OW's BH is trying to inform you of the truth.


Why on earth will it take a month to implement the EP's?

The point here should be that YOU will not allow him to move home until he can implement the EP's. He is not driving this bus.



The conversation was only productive for your WH who has continued to manipulate you and gaslight you into thinking that he is serious.


There is no such thing as Plan A & B. This is not the MB plan and will not work.

Be smart hickstt.

Great post, pokerface. She is in deep denial.

I contacted the mistresses husband. He is intending to let his spouse move back in and wanted to confirm that communication had ended. He had no proof of communication between them and neither did I. She is threatening if he does not let her move back in that she will be moving down the road from me.

As I explained to him, there are no cash transactions from the bank, no phone call, no emails, no proof, so I have thrown my husband out based on his text message, on assumptions and no facts.

The next day my husband went to work and the mistresses husband had advertised our conversation to our customers and where making fun. I feel further humiliated because I had confided in him in confidence. I don't want to talk to the mistresses husband as he brings up details of the affair that happen months ago and its just hurting me and I am falling more in to depression. If I am trying to put a marriage back together how is this helping?

My husband sent the letter on the check list the next day and we have agreed to sell the truck with his phone number as the customer base will be included in the sale price.

Where do I go from here, do I still cut off all communication with my husband and step forward in Plan B or does he move back in and continue working through Surviving an Affair. I don't quite understand how to transition back into recovery or when is it a good time to recommence this? Everything is a mess.

Actually you DID have proof. Your husband TOLD YOU he was in touch with his mistress. Did you tell her husabnd?


This is not true. You know for a fact taht your husband told you they were in touch. Did you tell the OW's H this?


How is it helpful to keep your husbands affair a secret? The OWH did nothing wrong. Your humiliation comes from your husband's trashy behavior.


I already told you:

Here is the "proof written by you on 2879780 - 04/14/16 05:50 PM

I am trying MelodyLane, I just want to crawl under a rock right now and be left alone.

That is information that you need to know. You will never recover if OW lives down the street. Did you ask the OW's BH to let you know if that happens?


Of course, you have not seen anything. Your WH KNOWS you are looking there. The facts are that your WH has not committed to NC for life with OW and has not implemented the EP's.


What does that mean? Making fun of what? Did your WH tell you that?

That is why your plan A and plan B will not work. If you were in a true Plan B with an intermediary, you would not even know this. Your husband would have had to deal with the fall out of his actions on his own.

But since you have not gone into a true Plan B, your WH was able to convince you that YOU are the cause of this rather than his own actions.


You are not following the MB plan.


Your WH is throwing you a few crumbs. What on the checklist has he actually completed?




You were never in recovery because your WH has done nothing on the checklist and is still in contact with the OW.

You already asked him to move back and he refused because you would nag him about implementing the EP's. He is not serious Hickstt.

A dark Plan B will protect you better than a rock. Do you have an intermediary? Do you understand plan B?

We have done everything on the checklist except sell the truck business and change his mobile number. We agreed to sell the phone number with the truck.

If he changes his phone number now and will still have the truck we have to contact all our customers to supply his mobile number, we agreed to have it listed for sale within the next two weeks.

Will he end his affair?

Where does this stand?

Here How to Plan B Correctly

My husband received a call from a random mobile two days after he sent the letter in the book. My husband changed his phone number the next day.

I spoke to the other woman's husband for about an hour and the puzzle was all put together. The dates when she was in town, my husband was with me. He just wanted to confirm if I thought it was going on before he let her move back into the house. My husband was telling the truth.

We were working through plan A and going through the book when I got his text message, chapter 6.

All that left on the checklist is selling the truck business.

Thanks for listening.

Did you tell the OW's husband that your husband admitted to you that he was still in touch with the OW?





Plan A is only for you, not him. Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? You should be following the program of recovery in that book. And what text message did you receive from him? I don't understand what you mean.

My husband bought the book Surviving an Affair (March) and we were reading it together and got up to chapter six and were working through the checklist, exposure is where things started to go a little backwards. Although, things between us started to improve.

I contacted the other woman's to confirm the email address to send the letter on the check list. His text message, "Please talk to me, I was just about to let her move back in, but found out a few things that you should know, they are still pretty close to each other and I'm just sick of being the fool." I threw my husband out after receiving this text. This is when my husband called her to find out what she had been saying.

After I spoke to the other woman's husband, she is coming back not by choice, that someone gave her money and she will not say who, that she did not confirm or deny she was still taking to my husband and threatened to move down the road from our house if he could not move back in with him. My husband told me she started a new relationship when she moved away and found out when he saw her in December, but has told her husband it was a one night stand. As I said to the other woman's husband, there are no calls on the phone bill, no cash withdrawals, all social media has been shut down. If anyone is calling, it will be her calling him. She returns back to her husband in a week and is going back to her old job.

I asked my husband if any of it was true. And he told me none of it was true. Only that after December (the last time they saw each other and were found out), she continue to call him up till the end of January from a private number. He stopped answering them private calls. I know this is true because when I call from a private number he does not answer.

My husband sent the letter in the book, and receive a call from another mobile number and it was her. She did not care about his email officially ended the relationship as she was returning to her husband anyway. She said that she wanted to make her husband jealous, sorry it stuffed up your life and laughed at him. My husband told her not to call again and changed his number the next day. My husband tells me not to call the other woman's husband, that he is not interest in what goes on in their lives and does not want to know about it.

I told him that when she comes back and cannot account for her time and who she is talking to, the finger is going to be pointing at him, something for him to think about. To get out of this circus the truck needs to be sold.

My husband has always been self employed along side his dad. I know that he does not like the idea of working for someone else and it will be a large drop in income for us and hurt us financially. I don't think he has the confidence to start another business without the support of his dad, a large part of our marriage problems, (dictator). I don't think the truck will be going anywhere soon. I have suggested a plan and he has not come up with an alternative.

I am impatient and want things to change pronto. I going through resentment at the moment.

When do you know recovery is not false? Should we start the next chapter 7?

Which proved the OW's husband was exactly right. Your husband WAS still active in his affair as evidenced by his continued contact. My question was did you TELL the OW's husband that he was RIGHT?


Will your husband end his affair? What about if HE calls her again?


Never ask a liar for the truth.


BE SURE and call the OW's husband and let him know she is still calling. Who cares what your husband wants? You need to stay in touch with the OW's H to make sure contact really ends.


Whatever he does for a living will have to complement your marriage. For example, he can't spend the nights apart from you.

What is his living status? Is he still refusing to come home?

I did not know that she continued to call my husband in January, that is why I could not understand when he told me that they are not talking but there is no agreement to end the relationship, it did not make sense. I did not tell the other woman's husband because I did not know that talking continued in January at the time of our conversation. However, the other woman's husband is aware that an email was going to be sent to his wife ending the affair officially.

My husband was an emotional wreak being apart from the family for the few weeks. I told him after he changed his number, STD tests and sent the email in the check list, I said he could come home. He has been home only for a few days and is happy to be home.

I took talking to his mother off the list as you said, affair proofing the marriage was the priority.

I am on alert when she arrives back in town in a weeks time. I don't believe she is serious about saving her marriage and does not realize the journey ahead of her.

If the affair starts up over again I am ending my marriage, I am not prepare to give anymore chances and have made that position very clear to my husband and he know that.

How close does the OW live to you?

You have not answered my question about your WH's so called best friend.



Since you have not answered the question I have to think that he is still talking to this person who is NO friend to your marriage. This person is an open door for OW to reach your husband.

Affairs are hard to kill and as you have seen this OW does not want to let go of your WH. Your WH could not resist her for over two years and that is something that does not change overnight because he was miserable for a few weeks without you.

It seems fairly easy for OW to reach your WH and break his resolve. What secret snooping methods do you have in place to verify NC with your own eyes?

Here False Recovery-Need Voices of Experience

Sorry, I over looked this question. It does not appear that he is talking to his best mate that much at all on his phone bills. I have told everyone that I exposed the affair to that his house was use to host the affair. He would have found this confronting because my father-in-law is guarantor on his house. I also know that he was putting the hard word on my husband for me to do his tax returns and my husband told him no, I am not asking her and she will not do it anyway. So the communication between them started to decline after this point. I will have another look at the phone bills.

The other woman's husband lives about 40 minutes away. She would be doing a nine to five job when she returns and I the husband will be keeping close tabs on her as well as the two daughters 19 & 18 years old. The daughters don't want anything to do with her. So I don't know if they are moving out for her to move in?

Snooping methods, I don't really have any ideas other than checking emails, looking at his phone bill?

First off, are you spending EVERY NIGHT TOGETHER? That is a critical component of recovery. I believe you might have responded to Trix on the False Recovery thread and her solution was to travel WITH her husband on his trips. They go together. [they came to my town a couple of years ago and I met them]

The snooping you need to be doing is installing spyware on his phone and putting a GPS on his vehicle. Have you checked the Operation Investigate forum?

He should NEVER speak to this dirtbag again. There is no "not much" about it. The fact that you would tolerate ANY contact with this POS is very frustrating.

We do spend every night together. He has done two overnight trips since the affair was discovered in December. I might suggest that he rejects these jobs. I am unable to go with him because we have three kids and I hate the truck. We bought it off THEM, that's how they meet.

I have mentioned GPS on the truck and he does not have a problem with it, I just have to work out how to do it? I will look at the Operation Investigation forum.


My husbands best friend, have been friends for 24 years. We have been married for 9. How do you completely end this friendship? I don't talk to him at all and cut him out of my life and told my husband that he is not welcome to our house.

I have told my husband that a bachelor has NO place giving a married man advice. That your friend would love nothing better than to have you a bachelor as well. That he is jealous of you, everything we have, he has to have as well and better. The only difference is he cannot afford to hold on to it or failed, its a competition. I will have to check his phone account to see what is going on here? But his ex-wife and I are friends and she drops her son off to his house once a fortnight.

Gotcha, and the truck is for sale, right?


Don't mention it again because obviously if he knows it is on there, it is useless.



Tell your husband he MUST never see or speak to this piece of crap again. That is how you do it. He is no "friend," he is an accessory to the crime.

Part of the program is to "never do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse. " He has agreed to this program, right? If so, he does not have your enthusiastic agreement to maintain a "friendship" with this dirtbag.

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So is he rejecting all overnight jobs? And you do have babysitters in your town, right? I GET that you hate the truck, but it would be good UA time and a good opportunity to rebuild your marriage. Your kids will be fine with a babysitter.

I feel like sometimes my husband is trying to replicate or ask me to do things that they did together and I flip out.

I look him some days and I think, I am only doing this for the kids and I would be much happier as a single parent. I have been reading some posts and just wonder if this is really worth the effort.

At the moment I could be OK for a week and then something happens and I lash out.

Hickstt, You have several threads and I'm sorry but I do not have time at the moment to go and re-read (I will in the next few days, but it would really be better for you if you stick to the same thread).

What has been completed from the recovery checklist? And what is left to do?

What remains in your lives that is triggering you? Can you work together to eliminate those things?

Has your husband stopped spending ANY nights apart? Are you two planning 25 hours every single week for UA time?

I almost blew our own recovery because I was consumed with resentment. In fact that is how I found MB... to learn how to deal with my resentment. MB saved me.

Stick with the plan. Give it time to work. Recovering a marriage can take years.

Control angry outbursts. Have you heard of the policy of joint agreement? You don't do anything unless you are both enthusiastic about it.

Focus on the good things that your husband is doing now to recover the marriage and don't dwell on the affair. Stop talking about the affair because it keeps you stuck in that time. You have to build new marriage with new memories.

Snooping and seeing what he is doing when he thinks you are not looking is a good way to help you rebuild your trust. He has not yet earned your trust and you would be wise to watch him like a hawk.

Hang in there.

It has been a while.

We still have the truck, the best friend is refusing to let go and my husband says he does not talk to him that often, my father-in-law says he sick of my [censored]. Cash withdraws continue. I'm at the point where I simply don't care about my marriage anymore, his social network don't support our marriage, so what chance is there of survival? Since the mistress left, my-father-in-law has replaced her and now he rings my husband 50 times a day and my husband jumps to his aid, it is ridiculous. Perhaps we are just not meant to be together. I not interest in snooping and watching like a hawk, I have a life and if he does not want to be part of it, leave but he won't, he puts on the sob story that he is nothing without his family and he want to kill himself.

I think our marriage will die a slow death the way things are going. Despite have endless discussions about the getting rid of the best friend (disrespectful texts from his best mate), cash withdrawal it does not seem to register. Even though he tries meeting other emotional needs, he does meet the top three emotional needs.

I am thinking about leaving my job and starting a business with my sister and surprisingly he has been supportive. I have involved him in the whole thing to date, (reading contracts etc) and it has helped us be polite to each other. I told him that I don't want his fathers to know about it as I don't want his opinion. But I recon he knows. It frustrating asking my husband for an opinion and he has to talk to his dad to find out his opinion so my husband can actually have an opinion.

Is the mistress around, has the affair ended, would not have a clue. The mistresses husband would be watching her like a hawk I reckon. But if it is, I'm not sticking around, I deserve better for myself and kids if is still going on.

Yes, you DO deserve better!

But from your post, it looks like you are still settling for crumbs.

Unfortunately, your children are witnessing all of this and learning that this is how to have a "marriage".

WEll, you are not going to GET better if you accept crumbs. Not sure why you would choose to live like this.

That is your choice.

If your husband refuses to protect you from these scumbags and complete the checklist, you need to separate and go to plan B. Quietly prepare to separate in the next week or so, give no warning, change tthe locks and put a suitcase with your plan B letter on the stoop.

Its a year later and we have been separated because we argue to much, my resentment has drove him back to her as I kept on uncovering lies.

He attempted suicide by a rope and I cut him down. The police were called. Despite this the affair continued and I found out again this week. There was a three way conversation with the mistress and she would not confirm or deny they have continued seeing each but my husband denied we were working on our marriage.

I have made him a financial offer and arrangements for him to see the kids and he sent me a text saying, he is sorry for the pain he has cause and he is embarrassed and ashamed of himself and that he does loves me. I know that he is fragile and tells me that he is very unhappy with his life and I do fear he will attempt suicide again as he is an emotional wreck. He tells me how lonely he is without the kids and family and perhaps this is why he has asked for her comfort. I called the mistresses soon to be ex-husband and found out that she had multiple affairs during there marriage and my husband is one of many.

I have told him to continue seeing his therapist. I also found out that his father added the mistress on to his Facebook page in recent weeks. We have not even taped on the problems in our marriage because the affair is still going. But he is our marriage problem, my husbands loyalty is to his dad never me and he does not want us to be together because its like a competition of loyalty. So I don't think the marriage has the support it needs to be a to continue.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I still do love him but I think the affair life of over 4 years means that perhaps I am the one who is to leave the picture and I know I will be ok now. I'm tired of the lies. I'm not scared anymore but disappointed I could not save it.

After seeing a therapist I know my husband just want to be loved and I did cut him down, I know I did the wrong thing, I wanted him to feel my pain. I don't know if he can ever be honest if I gave him a chance again.

The affair never ended, he drove (back) to her all by himself.

What do i do now

How am I supposed to know the affair is over to begin contemplating reconciliation if at all? I'm exhausted.

Welcome back, hickstt. I would go into Plan B and file for divorce. There is nothing to save here, sorry.

File for divorce and go into Plan B.

File for divorce and go into Plan B.

Are you going to take our advice this time or just wallow around in confusion and chaos for another year? This is taking years off your life, not just because you have wasted another year but in the health impacts it is having on you to live this way.

It is not your Task to prove to him he is having an Affair. He has to prove to you that he is worthy to be your husband.
So far he has not even endet his Affair.

Unless and untill he comes hat in hand willing to do anything you want, your marriage is done, if there ever was one.
You were married, but he was living a single lifestyle while having the perks of a free secretary, Cook, housemaid, childbearer and -caretaker. Why in the World would he want to change that? Who washed and ironed the clothes he took her out in? Who was babysitting his children while he was lying in her Arms? Who wrote the administrative bills so that he had money to buy her presents? Two women is even better than 1. Have you any idea why he would want to change the constellation?

You have practically been in a multiple-year Plan A.
Please read up on Plan a and Plan B.

He conveniently hanged himself where you would See it. If he had been serious he would have shot himself or jumped in front of the train. But now he has essentially blackmailed you into being supportive of all of his whims... Or else.

What Kind of a man would leave his family and children to fetch for themselves. And lose the therapist. If he want to be loved he has to behave in ways that make him lovable. Hint: taking time and money away from the family and Sh...... another man's wife ain't it.

You are not accountable for what he has done nor for what he will do in the future. He is. I could be wrong, but I suspect that he is just as narcissistic as his das and rather than his dad influencing him in the wrong way, he is conciously seeking Support for his wrongdoing where he know he will get it, well knowing his mum would not approve.