Can I please get some encouragement? My wife stated that she does not want to be with me. After all the years of my love busting. I can't see the end of the tunnel. I have not found a support group in my erea. I have committed to change and everything I have spoken is truth. Please help me see some kind of hope.

Should I try and maintain contact while we are seperated? Should I continue to pursue her? If I talk to much or bug her it will push her away right?

Are you in Plan A?

I am going to assume yes... but again? I was in plan A about a two years ago. I didn't work the program right and ultimately she left me for the OM... I went into plan B for nearly 7 months when she finally came back. Then I tried to "force" her to start this program with me. She left me again to be with him.... So yes, I'm strating Plan A again. But really, she is living with him... this is ungodly painful

Nothing really new to report. I read Love Busters again and it was like reading it for the first time. So much new information that I either wasn't paying attention to or was in denial. I just got car again (POS) but it runs... I am making looking for a job a full time job.

We made plans for mothers day for her to come to my house and be with the kids. I had many things lined up and was even going to cook her dinner and fix her car. She went to church with us because the kids were putting on a show. She rushed out as soon as it ended. I was waiting on her outside with the kids. She canceled on the plans saying she was going to do something with her mother and grandmother. I did get visibly upset but did my best not to be rude or judge her.

Last night we were texting, she told me she felt guilty about not being with the kids on mother's day. I made it worse saying that I was a piece of #### father and Husband. She replied that I was a great father. My rebuttal was that, if I was... then we wouldn't be going through this. A great father puts his family before his own self. She got mad and said that I need to get a job and a different house (being evicted... Not my doing) and accept that we are not together and that she is done talking.

Today she called me and explained that yesterday was hard enough and I made it worse. That I need to get my stuff straight. She DOES NOT WANT TO WORK ON US, and her next step is getting a better job and moving out of his place to be on her own. She's frustrated that his place is the only place for her to stay and that the only problem she has over there is their constant arguing at each other. She caused all this and she will get herself out of it. I need to stop trying to woo her and stop trying to talk her back. We would have gotten a separation anyway if she didn't have the affair. If I have changed the way I have said, then I need to show it and stop talking about it. (all her words) She does not see what she is doing as being in an affair. She also stated that we should start living like married but separated? SHE IS SLEEPING WITH HIM!!!!!!!

I am trying very hard not to be judgmental. I do everything I can not to give her any backlash for what she is doing to me. Even though I am trying to forgive and let go and be a christian, I am finding it very difficult not to hate the OM. I am constantly having to ask forgiveness for some of the evil thoughts that run through my head. I have forgiven her, sometimes it is daily, but this is only because I can see a life worth living and worth the trouble it will take to get there. This was the OM's plan since they started talk way back in late 2014. She told me the last time we hung out with the kids at the park, that I needed to be nice about him when I talk to her... Am I supposed to act like this is just one big happy family? I'm sorry if this sounds like I am venting... I probably am...

One of my questions to her a couple nights ago was, "Do you think I am insane for trying to win your heart back?" She replied yes. I asked her why, she said "For everything I have done to you" I said, "I can accept that, but there is one problem with that, You are my soul mate that can never be replaced and even at my angriest, I still loved you and wanted the very best for you. So I ask you... what do you think of a love that could withstand that?"

I still very much love this woman... Why?

I am going back through this entire thread and wanted to revisit this. I am committed to the program now and looking for a job. I have great prospects. I am listening to the radio show daily. Also I would like to point out the message just above this, that my wife is getting pissed that I am trying to woo her. I want her to know that I respect her feelings and that I do listen to her, but wooing her at this point would be a negative right? Or am I dead wrong? Dr. Harley said that I need to wait until the affair is completely over. When asking about how long I should talk to her, he stated as long as I can be functional then go into plan B again and wait for her to return. I do not fight with her EVER. I am doing everything I can not to start talking her head off about the relationship when she brings up that she does not want to fix us.

Marcos! I really appreciate everything you have told me! Thank you. I value your input even though sometimes I'm hard headed. I am working on this too. But I thank you for your support!

I have a question on Love Busters, I am very aware and self conscious about selfish demands and disrespectful judgments so any idea I have or thought I may have... I try to ask her how she would feel if... or would you like to... basically I have removed all instances of telling her what to do or shaming her when she doesn't do what I thought was best. However, when I asked her the other day about why she decided not to spend Mothers day with us, she said that I "told her to come" (demand)... I specifically remember asking her if she would like to come over... We can do this and this, and as our conversation got longer, I offered my help with fixing her car and my tone went from if you would like, to... When you come over, I will do this and this and this. She saw this as a demand... I realize that it is her opinion and the way she sees my behavior that matters, but how can I avoid seeming like I am demanding or judging when I'm not intending to do so?

Reply from Dr Harley,

Should I completely follow the steps for plan B as written in Surviving an Affair? ie... Right her a letter that follows the template you offered in the book... Should I include how I can't trust her anymore since she lied again and left me again? I'm sure she already knows this, but I have been doing everything I can to be pleasant including apologizing for her actions and placing all the blame on me. I've even included that I understand why she has done it.�


If I write this letter, I want it to mean something and not just to be a guilt trip. Should I feel like she should owe me anything? I realize this is her fault and that I am taking all the blame and misery for it, but shaming her would be a huge lover buster right? Is this the start of my down fall? Being an enabler?

Yes. Use the template.

Thank you. I thought the first time was hard, but your husband showed me that I didn't do it right from the start. So this time I'll have a friend deliver it. And give the OM a copy too. It truly does suck to be in love with this woman.

When she is at work or in the bathroom, she will talk to me none stop. I am being a gentleman and being funny in my texts. She will actually show some signs of having a good time while talking to me. I'd hate to lose that. But the ultimate goal here is to have a beautiful romantic loving relationship with my wife. So I'll post my letter here first, would you critique it?

We also meet up during the week to spend "family time" with the kids. We've been meeting at the park 1-2 times a week.

It's been a couple weeks since my last post and I have been in contact with Dr Harley... but I have a huge issue...

I finally found a job, a car, and relocating to a new city.. great place with tons of recreational activities. My wife left the OW again and agreed to move with me to this new city for the sake of the kids. She has been severely depressed since she came back. This was all based on a rommate scenario even though I was able to sleep in the same bed as her. No contact. But a week after she was back, I caught her talking to the OW because I had her FB account. She insisted that I had done something terrible and that I'm a horrible person. I kept my composure and tried to play nice. I reminded her of the no contact with OW and this made her even more mad. She negotiated her way so that she could maintain contact with him. Now after a couple days, she no longer wants to go to the new city... all of her friends, family, and her "love" will be crushed and I am only trying to make her misirable. I don't want her happiness only mine. She even said that I was going to take the kids with me while she finds a job here and a place to stay. Then she went to the bar last night... again... she left with and spent the night with him. I begged her not to go there and what will happen. Now she not even wanting me to take the kids to the new city and that I am trying to take them away just to hurt her. That I am taking them away from her to punish her. She thinks I am trying to hold them hostage. That this guy is the only person in the world that she loves. She has stated over and over and over again, that I am the cause of her pain and depression and have been for our 13 years of depression. I have told her over and over again that she doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to do, but I am not leaving my kids. She is leaving me. I am not abandoning her. I have given her cliff notes on the program but she refuses to try or read anything. I know I have to find a lawyer and secure my custody with the kids asap. But I don't want to keep these kids from her! She recently stopped taking an AD because she felt it was making her worse... I advised against this. She refuses to see a councilor, not marriage, for insecurity issues and other problems. She blames me for all of her problems. She hates me.... I am to the point now that all I care about is my kids and I can see working on this marriage only for them. But I see so much pain and depression on her and her future that it scares me!!! I also know that until she is completely and permanently away from OW, she will never see me in any other light. Someone please offer some guidance?

Ok so have I just lost all integrity and no one is willing to share their thoughts? I'm not trying to be rude, but I feel like I am shunned here. I have read the 3 top books, I am listening to the radio show everyday, and I'm trying to update this when I have a free moment. I am wondering if I need to start a new thread? Could this one be too long? I'm sorry if my problems in my marriage are too great for help. But I am trying.

So as my last comment stated, I'm moving to a new city and it is really eating at me. My spouse has been jumping back and forth on whether she will be relocating with me. She really does hate me for interfering with her relationship with the OW. But for the kids, she has decided that she is "going to disappear" from this town so she can move with me. She stated that this will cause the OW to commit suicide if she leaves him and I am just being selfish and don't care about her feelings at all. I have tried to be as comforting as possible, but she won't let me near her. She has finally agreed to cut all contact with OW... but also everyone else in her family? I fear that she is about to be extremely depressed beyond anything I have ever seen. But you guys and the book Surviving an Affair tell me it's only going to last a short time... right? She still doesn't want to work on the marriage and I will never make her happy. I realise this is the affair and depression talking, but it hurts. She told me today that she is a bad mother who has made bad decisions and made her kids pay for it. This killed me! She feels like I am controlling her by moving. But she agrees never to communicate with the OW again. I'm not sure how to implement any steps in the program if she refuses to do anything? I'm trying to be loving and supportive, take care of all the household responsibilities, the kids, financials, and offer as many recreational activities that come to mind, but until the move and getting away from the OW, nothing I do will ever help. I am asking her for everything and demanding nothing, I do not try to judge her decisions but on occasion I slip up when she says that he's the only man that can make her happy or that I will never. I counter it with, but I can or you haven't given me a chance. I try to say, "I realise you feel that way and I'm sorry. I feel differently about it..." I had an agry outburst yesterday, when she kept saying g that she will never let me take the kids away from her. I told her that I'm not!!!

Some major issues she has about me, I try to fix everything and I am Mr know it all... the OW doesn't do anything and he has a 6th grade education. I know I can work on these and have been for sometime. But these are habits that are extremely hard to break. Does anyone have suggestions on how to remove these? I tried to contact the OW yesterday and tell him the damage he is causing, but my spouse found out and became super mad. Said that I was trying to kill him. I guess he has sever depression too... misery loves company? Her goal is to move with me, get a job, and move out but stay close. She stated that is the only way she will be happy. I am hoping that I can turn things around before that time but also feel like maybe she needs to learn what it is to live on her own for a while? I have no idea really...

Has she spoken to her doctor about getting some ADs during her withdrawal?

Is she still communicating with OM? She acts like they are still in contact.

When will you be moving?

Don't let her try and guilt you into feeling guilty about putting pressure on the affair. You keep telling her that her affair is causing you so much pain.

How is your Plan A going? What are you doing? Have you committed any love busters?

Nobody is shunning you. If you don't post for weeks and then show up on a holiday weekend, you are not likely to get loads of attention.

The OW you are referring to is the OM if I follow this correctly. I'm from North Carolina. We pay special attention to these sort of things!

You need to accept the fact that you can not decide for other people. You can make things the best they can possibly be on your side of the fence, and your WW may still choose the other. Eventually she will likely come to her senses. That is why affairs die a natural death. But in the short term, she is in the driver's seat and will do what she will do. Presently, she is somewhere between withdrawal and conflict. The fact that she blames you is actually a good thing, because she isn't totally in withdrawal. If she were, she would just leave and say nothing. So you need to weather the storm and do nothing to push her toward withdrawal. She might yet leave, but you should not throw any love busters at her. Of course, this is difficult in the teeth of an ongoing affair. But as long as she is continuing to remain in conflict, you have a better chance at making love bank deposits than if she moves into withdrawal.

Your wife is still drinking, isn't she?

She did go to the bar this weekend... I begged her not to go. Also she went there to see him and she stayed the night with him too!