After surviving a horrific start to our marriage (we lost a baby at birth, WH reacted by having back-to-back affairs), we moved to a new country (UK) and were healing and getting stronger together... or so I thought. In August 2014 he confided that he had been having another affair, this time with an old school friend who he had met back up with when we moved. Once again my world was shattered and I didn't see much hope... We did not follow all the steps (to our downfall), but he did agree to n/c and gave me access to his phone and computer. Fast forward to 6 months later, and we have fallen back into old routines. He also has gotten a new phone and changed the password, but I was sick of being his parole officer, so I didn't ask for access...

Now it's 15 months later, and after very minor snooping, found love notes in his computer bag from the same OW. They were from February. I confronted him and we are still at that fragile first stage. He agreed to n/c last night, but we still haven't made a commitment to heal the marriage. I don't even know if I can do that. Tonight, I am going to enforce the n/c (have him write the letter and email it) and also get access to his accounts again, just for peace of mind.

I feel sick to my stomach, but part of this has become old hat - I don't know if I have any fight left in me, frankly.

Hi Bronwyn, the big miss in this scenario is that you and your H have never taken recovery seriously. Your husband is a serial cheater who has a lifestyle that affords him the opportunity to BE a serial cheater. One of the first steps in recovery is taking extraordinary precautions to prevent another affair. That means changing the environment that allows him to cheat. Does he travel for a living? How is he able to hide his affairs?

And have you exposed his affairs? What do you know about the OW?

In the early days of our marriage he was traveling all the time. Early on in our 1st "recovery", he changed jobs and stopped traveling. This allowed a certain amount of healing to happen. But for the past couple of years he has been on the road a bit - never long and never far, but all it takes is overnight...

If we decide to recover this time, the travel will have to stop (or I will have to go with him, even if it means taking time off from my job). We have definitely left a certain amount space for this to happen - we also have different circles of friends, so do spend evenings apart.

In order for you to recover, you will have to be with him 24/7 because he is a serial cheater. He doesn't just "fall into" these affairs like most cheaters, he is out actively trolling for action. A more global approach will be necessary so you can watch him 24/7. He can't very well cheat if you are with him all the time. So you would have to work out a way to be together all the time.

Not sure why any married couple would have different circles of friends, but having opposite sex friends is how affairs start. Spending evenings apart is destructive to your marriage.

Have you been tested for STDs? Has he given you any diseases? Do you have the book Survivng an Affair?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

In our old city, he had almost no friends and we socialised with my circle. When we moved, he caught up with old friends - all male, apart from the OW and I made new friends. There is some overlap and we do go socialise together regularly, but at least once a week we're out individually with our own friends. That doesn't seem unhealthy to me, or it wouldn't in a normal relationship... (which I hate reminding myself that I don't have!)

I do understand the need to be together as much as possible if we are to recover. I have an annual weekend reunion with girlfriends coming up that I am going to have to cancel (and eat an expensive plane ticket!). We just spent a long weekend together for our 12th anniversary - at least I didn't know then...

The exposure thing is not going to have much impact, as he has no family anymore (parents have died, siblings long estranged) and only a couple of close friends.

I, of course, will tell my parents and close friends, but parents live 3,000 miles away and he will just avoid my friends.

In a healthy marriage, most leisure time is spent together. Perhaps lunch with the girls, but outside of that having separate friends is not a good idea.


Is there a reason why you have never used Marriage Builders? I am really shocked that after all you have been through that you would not attempt recovery. You have very destructive practices that have facilitated your husbands affairs.

I disagree that exposure won't have an impact. Everyone should be told of his affairs. What about the OW and her family? Is she married?

Haven't you done all this many times before?

This is the third time through this process, the second time with the same OW. Her husband found out last time, but I don't know if he knows now or is indeed still in the picture.

Tonight's conversation will decide if we even start down recovery this time. I'm not sure if I can do it, frankly. And he has to want to, too.

bronwyn, I am very sorry you are going through this, and I hope we can help you never go through it again.

I would print out that checklist MelodyLane provided, give it to your husband, and initiate divorce proceedings. If he jumps up and does everything on the list, you can cancel the divorce. Otherwise, I would get out of there asap and not waste any time trying to drag him through more fake recovery.

Yes, the checklist is going to be the main thing when we talk tonight. We have been through all the steps before, the first time around. When it happened again, the circumstances were different and I dropped my guard. I am not a glutton for punishment, nor do I have low self-esteem, but I do love my husband and up until now had always been hopeful that there was a way forward. Now it's do or die time.

I wouldn't waste a lot of breath on the talk, bronwyn.

The conversation will be short, a simple "here is what I need for me to stay in this marriage."

There is a way forward, but with a serial cheater it is a very narrow path with no room for error. You realize that with a serial cheater who has been actively pursuing affairs your whole marriage, you can NEVER let your guard down. Recovery can be done but not in the casual way you have been working on 'recovery' since the last couple affairs.

After reading your history, I would highly suggest you add 'take and pass a polygraph' to your list of EP's.

Your WH has been wayward since before you even met him. He has been living a secret second life for many many years. I am guessing the depths of this SSL are much deeper than you realize. You cannot recover and protect yourself in the future unless you know everything that you are dealing with. He would need to give you a complete confession, and then PASS a poly afterwards to prove that you know it all.

You have been through this multiple times. If you are not a glutton for punishment, you need to do it right this time. It is either that or die a death of a thousand cuts as you have more and more Ddays.

I would start by calling her husband FIRST before you speak to your husband. Expose the affair wide and far FIRST. Does the OW have a facebook page? You should expose to her friends and family. Did you read my exposure thread in my signature?

Does this OW live close by?


Unless he can find a way to be with you 24/7 this is a non starter. The only way to stay married to a serial cheater is to be with him 24/7. Otherwise, this will be your future.

And you know this because you spoke to him yourself?

Serial cheaters will typically agree to everything when first caught and then slowly backslide. If you aren't willing to follow through on these things, then just forget it.

In fact, you now have an uphill climb, because your WH KNOWS that you will back off the EPs after time passes. He's COUNTING on it. The second he starts to try backsliding on the littlest thing re EPs you need to be ready to call him out on it.

If you can't do this for whatever reason (you are an conflict avoider, etc) then just don't even bother with recovery.

bronwyn, I hope that you realize that your WH did not have those affairs "reacting" to your lost baby. Surely you see that now that he is still pursing affairs years later? It is this type of BS "fog" that leads to cutting corners regarding EPs. Please, don't give your WH excuses for his behavior.


I just have to point out here - I looked at your last couple of threads. I see that months after your ddays 1+2 you found out that your WH was still pursuing both OW1 + 2.

I am really concerned that you are not the type of BS that can truly follow through with the kind of policing and lifestyle changes that are necessary for a serial cheating WH.

Do you really understand what you are up against here? When MelodyLane says that you need to spend 24/7 with your WH that is being dead serious. You cannot take trips with your girlfriends and your WH probably shouldn't have a smartphone or unfettered access to the internet or email. You should probably be sitting right there with him if he's going to go online.

Do you realize this??