So basically I want to tell my wife's history first. She's always been a good person, extremely kind and a great mom, wife etc. We've had our ups and downs, but never had infidelity in our marriage.

So 8 years ago, she was exchanging text messages with a boss at work. I noticed cause I just felt suspicious. After finding out the number, and catching her lying saying it was a coworker - she confessed. She confessed it was one of her bosses, texting her. She said she didn't want to tel me cause she felt it was wrong. Most of the texts were just how ur day going etc. But sometimes he would flirt, tell her how beautiful she is, how he never met anyone like her etc. Although she liked the attention, she claims she would always tell him that's sweet but she married. He would be like ok, that's fine, but obv it would come up again. She said she let this happen cause she felt lonely, I wasn't paying attention as much. And cause she did t ha e feelings for him, she didn't think it would be that big a deal. I obv told her it was, she realized it, and we ended up getting thru it. I had a lot of anger, but I'd say it wasn't a long recovery, a few weeks. We ended up going on dates again, she quit her job a few mths later when she got preg, and that was that.

I should add that we got married real young and had kids young. I was 22 and 20. Our marriage was forced, even though we both felt that the other is the person we wanted to spend our lives with.

So 2 kids (4 total now) and 8 years later and we hit that same lull. I don't pay much attention, snapping at her for small things. I see myself treating her wrong, not the loving man she fell in love with, but I'm so stressed I don't care. I start a new pt job so along with my ft job I'm barely home. Meanwhile she discovers this singing app, where she meets all these new ppl, and I start to notice a change. On her phone more, locking it, etc. This was November 2015

Fast forward to late March, I finally go on this app and begin to notice that one person is singing songs with her a lot, and comments are bit friendly etc. I begin to question her and for about 2-3 weeks she tells me slowly. It goes from never communicating with anyone outside the app to just private messages on the app. Then it goes to messages off the app. Finally she admits she made a few friends, some guys, but all of them are like a family. She claims she feels happy now, but knows me and the kids are her everything. That she just feels like she been a housewife so long with barely any social life.

I can understand where she coming from, we married so young. At this point she 34 I'm 36, and we been married 11 years together 15.

After she confesses this to me, as much as o want to believe her I just can't for some reason. Like she leaving Something out. It's so hard to think that though cause it's not her to hide like the, lie like this. Finally I hatch a plan.

On her bday, mid April, I tell her I have all her convos from her phone from a spy site. I tell her I see things like "hi honey" " I love you" etc, but I say it's all jumbled and the site is just fixing it for me. She claims its prob just messages to her friend, but we will talk later. So finally after bday dinner, alone at home with kids asleep, she tells me the truth. There's one guy she cares about , has feelings for. She nods when I ask if she loves him. I ask her what she wants to do, and and she tells me, that she is going to end all communication with him. I ask her if there was any meetup, and no he lives in another country. She tells me it wasn't physical attraction at all, that it was just the attention, cause of how we were. She knows it was wrong, even if it was just words. I ask for details. She tells me it was really a strong friendship. That she tried to end it 2 weeks ago, but he contacted her again and she thought she could keep it as friends - which it has been past 2 weeks. But she knows now she has to end it. That she wants us to be strong again. I tell her if it's really love maybe she should find out. I'm in shock at that point so I guess that's why I said that. She adamantly says no, that I'm the one she really loves. I fall asleep but over the next few weeks we both cry like crazy.

Fast forward to now, and we had so many highs and lows. When we happy everything is perfect. Our sex life is 1000 times better than it was. She's tranparent with everything, getting off the app, and not hiding anything. She tells me she now knows what it was just a fantasy- that it wasn't real. She says it was the "power" she felt knowing another man could fall deeply in love with her even though she was married made her feel wanted again. That it blinded her to what was actually real, which is our life together.

As time went on, I learned that he fell for her months ago, and she knew she should have ended contact, but she thought it was harmless cause she had no physical attraction to him. She knew how he looked and felt what's the harm, he's nice to talk to. But as time went on, she begun to care about him slowly. When she did try to end it, he cried, and she felt so vulnerable and sorry for him, she told him she loved him too - which st the time she believed. That she loved him as a friend, but knowing it wasn't right anyways.

When she did end it for good, 2 days after her bday, he finally told her he actually had 2 kids and a wife, who ran off and let him alone. I instantly thought he was lying, that they were in his life the whole time. She said it didn't matter, good for him, and she wanted to focus on us. I couldn't help it and with a little digging, I found thru his fb page it wasn't true, his wife and kids were there. My wife was a bit shocked, but she said it didn't matter. Makes it even better since it's easier to remember him as a liar.

So like I said, we have these really good times, but sometimes I get so angry she did this and hurt. I question her sometimes if she still has feelings and she says no, cries, says she doesn't know how long it'll take for me to believe her, but she'll wait forever. She says that seeing how hurt I was has made her realize how wrong it was. She also says it will never ever happen again, that she will no longer have male friends. That she doesn't know if she can forgive herself. My friend tells me it's nothing, there was no real dates, physical contact, but it still hurts. My wife was perfect to me, even after what happened 8 years ago. I never held it against her, cause she didn't have feelings. But this time she did.

Ultimately, since it wasn't a full blown affair, this will be easier right? To get thru? Right now, we r good some days, and then I just go off asking her questions and relive the whole thing. I get mean, calling her a liar. It hurts her so much, but she just takes it, never gets angry at me, just keeps asking for me to just let go and forgive her. Anybody been in this particular situation? Where it wasn't full blown, but still hurt? Am I just over sensitive?

I love her more than anything, even the kids, as wrong as that is. She tells me the same, that she lnows she can't live without me. Early on I threatened her with seperatipn, and she just said no, it's not Happening. Deep Down I didn't want it anyways, so I didn't argue saying it wasn't her choice. I just said fine..but I can always leave. She said no to that too, that unless I tell her I no longer in love, we have to keep trying. And we are, and I know we will get thru it. But I need to stop the blow ups. I feel like I hurt her everytime and regret it instantly.

Anyways thanks for listening. We haven't told anyone except her online gf knows, and one of my friends I barely see just text. We really don't talk to anyone except each other.

I do want to add that since we been married I never cheated on her. When she was pregnant with our first child, I did have an emotional affair online, but we had broken up and I had moved to another city temporarily. I left her while she was preg (though we only dispcered weeks after I had left) and cause I didn't come back until after she was born, she held a lot of resentment. It took a year for us to finally be a couple again and for her to let me back in.
But while I was in that kther city, not with her, I became close with a diff girl online.she found out a year later and was upset, but didn't take it like I do now. Mainly cause it was over, it had taken place while we weren't together, and we weren't married either. So she got over it quicker.

I also told other lies, about other stuff, not worth mentioning. But other than these 2 incidents, she's been completely perfect. Which is why it hurts so much.

Hello Ralph, welcome to Marriage Builders. Did you have a question for us?

Well I guess just any advice to help me with my outbursts. I read I'm not suppose to talk about it, but sometimes I'm watching a movie with my wife or hear a song and get reminded, and boom I have a question, which leads to more , to anger, etc.

Also, from what I've said, about my wife, does a quick recovery seem likely? Any advice really, thanks

That is pretty normal. The issue I see here is that there is no plan for recovery. And having no plan for recovery is a plan to fail. Your marriage never recovered from the last affair and here you are again. The conditions that led to her last affair were never addressed and corrected. Since that is the case, you can look forward to more affairs unless there are major changes.

First off, your wife has poor boundaries around men. She has now had at least 2 affairs because she has opposite sex friendships and has poor boundaries. This is why she has affairs. The solution is to affair proof your marriage. That means no more online apps, social media, and especially male friendships. She should agree to get a dumb phone that cannot have apps. And you should regularly snoop on her to make sure this doesn't happen again. If you won't do those things, I predict that she will eventually have another affair and leave you.

The 2nd part of this plan is to create a romantic, passionate marriage where you both meet each others needs using this program. Doing this will eliminate your resentment. If you don't create a happy marriage in the present, your resentment will grow every year until this happens again.

And lastly, you should expose her affairs. Exposure is the most effective first step towards recovery. The OM's wife should be informed, all of your family and friends. Exposure is critical to recovery for a couple of reasons, a) it bursts the fantasy of the affair and motivates the cheater to make a turn around and b) the more people who know, the more people to hold her accountable and support your marriage. Dr Harley, the founder of Marriage Builders, calls exposure the "most important first step towards recovery."


No, it does not because there is no plan. You should follow the steps above and pick up the book Surviving an Affair.

Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist, From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Thanks for the advice. I don't consider the first one to be an affair. But yeah I'll look st what u wrote

Sorry you are here but welcome.


Yes, this "first one" WAS an affair.

Whatever you want to label it as really doesn't matter - what matters is that this shows under certain conditions, your W will stray from the marriage and allow others to meet her emotional needs.

The answer is changing those conditions (i.e., eliminating OS friendships and restricting her access to social media and apps).

Please be aware that this is Dr Harley's advice we are giving to you.

What you describe in your first post is an affair. The def of an affair is a romantic relationship outside of marriage and that is exactly what she had.

Is it an affair if you talk to someone, and they tell u they have feelings for u, but u let them know you are flattered, but will never be more than a friend? And keep the convos as that?

The fact that she allowed it to happen and LIKED it indicates it was a very 2 sided relationship. If not, she would have put a stop to it, she did not. I understand she characterized it as someone flirting with her, but she was obviously open for business.

Even so, the solution is the same. Did you read our posts outlining a solution? Debating about a years old affair seems to be a distraction.

Yes. And had you come here after that first time, we would have told you if your WW doesn't implement EP (extraordinary precautions) that she would have another affair, which she did.

Why do you care so much whether it is called an affair?

Do you describe a fictional situation or did you or your wife have this conversation with an opposite sex 'fried'?