Hello all,

First I want to thank everyone that runs this online community. I was very grateful to come across a support community that has a wealth of information to help those going through rough times such as myself!

First I will give my background story. I will try to be as brief as possible. But there is a long history. My W of 8 years came to me almost a year ago during one of our fights and said she wants a Divorce. We started fighting a lot prior and we were both very neglectful of each other after both of our children were born (2 and 5 years old) But this came as a complete surprise as there were absolutely NO warning signs or hints prior. I told her that is NOT what I wanted and I was willing to do absolutely ANYTHING to avoid a Divorce. I listened to her complaints and changed my daily routine and stepped up to fulfill her needs as best I could. She admitted that I did change for the better and have been "amazing" since the threat of Divorce was given. About a month later I discovered on her phone that she was talking in code to her friends about being out with OM and taking the kids out with him. Immediately after the Divorce threat was given, she banned me from her public life. I was no longer allowed to go with her and the kids to friend's parties, work events/parties, etc.. But, she would still go and bring my kids along.

I confronted my W about the OM talk and she denied it of course and said they were referring to something/someone else. Then, my oldest daughter started talking about OM and referring to him by name. I recognized the name and realized that this was a "good friend" of the W that was a work colleague. I confronted the W with this and of course she denied it and accused my daughter of making up stories. Shortly after the OM blocked me on Facebook.

The W and I limped along for about 8 months in a state of her insisting that our Marriage is beyond repair and there was nothing I could do to fix all the damage that was done over the years. I put in my best effort to fix things, but was always met with resistance and no trying whatsoever on her part. Then at about the 8 month mark, she served me with Divorce papers and took the kids to live with her parents. After a few weeks I was able to talk to her and get her to put things on hold. We both saw how it was affecting our children and we decided to stay together and I insisted that eventually when things settle down, we will work on rebuilding our Marriage.

So, the W has been living back in our house with me for the past 3 months now and the talk about the OM from my daughter has ceased. But, last week D-Day occurred. She left her Facebook account logged in on our computer and I saw a lengthy conversation with the same OM I had my suspicions about a long time ago. This all took place before I found the advice on this site and I accosted the W with this information. She flat out lied to my face and denied it several times until I offered to show her the evidence. She then admitted to it and acknowledged it has been going on since the beginning. She swears it was just emotional and not a physical affair. But, I don't know what to believe at this point. I know so far I only have evidence of it being emotional. I demanded that the Affair end and she cut off ALL contact with the OM. It has been almost a week and I am fairly certain she has done nothing to end it judging by her call logs (still talks to OM on the phone daily)

So my question is this: is outing the W and OM really the BEST option in my situation? From most posts I read, outing is usually only done when a WS has already left or is in the process of leaving. With my W just coming back to me and a Divorce that is on hold for 6 months (ready to be reactivated at a moment's notice if one party chooses) I am certain that the WS would be so furious with me over a public outing that she would re-initiate the Divorce and leave me. I wouldn't put it past her to run into the arms of the OM and get physical with him to get revenge on me.

I also have a concern about her career. Both the WS and OM work in politics and a public outing would damage her career and possibly cause her to get fired. We rely on her income and that would devastate our finances at the moment. Naturally I don't care about HIS career or damage done! But, they both work in the same office and see each other daily at work. So, one or both would have to get a new job soon as this is unsustainable to end an affair as I have read. So, that expectation would be demanded by me to the WS.

Lastly, I want to get an opinion on confronting the OM. I know him from past interactions and we were friends before this all happened. But, we are going to run into each other soon at public events. So, I know there will be a time that I will be around him. I was just going to leave it at telling him "stay away from my wife and family and don't ever talk to any of us again!" Really nothing special unless others can offer advice on what to say or do?

Sorry for the long post. But any advice would be appreciated!

Welcome to MB. I am sorry to hear of the events in your marriage.

It may be that you have only read posts where the wife is in the process of leaving. However, what you need to read is Dr Harley's advice on how to deal with an affair, not just the posts that happen to be active here on your arrival. This is Dr Harley's forum, and all the advice given here is taken directly from his writings available free on the website, from his books, and from his daily radio show.

In his article How to Survive an Affair, Dr Harley writes

"If your unfaithful spouse is unwilling to end an affair the right way, I know of a way to help speed up its demise: Expose it. Your own family should know: Your parents, your siblings, and even your children. The family of your spouses lover should also know, especially the lover's spouse. The pastor of your church should be informed as well. Exposure of an affair is like opening a moldy closet to the light of day. Affairs do well when they're conducted in secret, but when they're in full view for all to see, they appear as they are -- incredibly foolish and thoughtless.

Even if exposure were to be ineffective in ending an affair, I'd recommend it anyway. The betrayed spouse needs as much support as possible, and exposure helps friends and relatives understand what's going on. Keeping an affair secret is no real help to anyone. But I've been amazed at how well it dismantles the illusion that affairs rest upon. Instead of assuming that the relationship is made in heaven, an unfaithful spouse quickly senses that it's a one-way ticket to hell on earth.

The first reaction of an unfaithful spouse to exposure is to try to turn the tables on the betrayed spouse. "I will never be able to forgive you for hurting me this way. Don't you ever think about how I'd be affected by this?" Of course, it's really the affair that hurts. The exposure simply identifies the source of the pain. The unfaithful spouse should be the one begging for forgiveness."

The advice to expose applies to ALL affairs, and not only to certain kinds. You need to pick your exposure targets strategically, and they should always include the ones listed the in quotation (your kids, the other man's wife and kids etc). You are not trying to "out" or embarrass your wife, but to ask for support from people who know and care for you, and to hasten its demise by telling employers, in the case of a workplace affair, and the other spouse; these people can demand that the affair end, thus helping you with your task.

Exposure speeds up whatever is going to happen anyway. Your wife won't leave you because you ask your family for support in this crisis. If your wife "runs into the arms of the OM and gets physical with him to get revenge on you,", she is planning to leave anyway. If she goes through with that, the affair will die a natural death quickly, because it is unsustainable. There is no future for your wife with this OM, who really only wants a bit of free nookie. He doesn't want a forced marriage and stepchildren as the price for bedding a married woman.

Well, it's her career or your marriage. Pick one. you can't have both. The affair will continue as long as they work together.

You would not be doing a "public" exposure by contacting their employer, by the way. You would expose in writing directly to the employer and request that they deal with the affair taking place in their place of employment. There are professional and sexual harassment issues that they need to circumvent. If your wife got fired, that would be the best thing that could happen to her.

You need to confront him, but you also need NEVER to run into him at public events. You both, but especially your wife, need to never see or have any contact with him again. You can't end this affair by asking your wife to stop, telling OM to stop - and then leaving them to work together and run into each other at social events.

if you've read this forum, as you say you have, you must know that ending the affair takes drastic action, including instituting no contact for life. As Dr Harley writes in that article:

"Step 1: End the Affair

The first step on the path to surviving an affair is for it to end. An affair ends when the straying spouse ceases all contact with his or her lover and never sees or talks to that person again. Time and again I've watched what happens when a drastic and decisive break with a lover is not made. They try to remain "friends" and maintain casual social contact. But inevitably they find their way back to their lover's arms. It seems that when it comes to this one person, they exhibit incredibly flawed judgment and almost irresistible force draws them back."

Thank you very much for the quick reply! I guess I should have mentioned that yes I have been reading the advice on Dr. Harley's site intently. I plan on purchasing one of his books to read once I get past all of this and return to survival/rebuild mode. I guess I am hinging on where Dr. Harley says " IF your unfaithful spouse is unwilling to end an affair the right way" I think the WS WANTS to end it as she expressed to me and promised. I just think she hasn't gotten the chance to for whatever reason. But, that is probably giving her more credit than she deserves at this point.

And, I do have good reason to assume that my WS WILL leave me if I perform a strategic outing. She will feel betrayed as I already promised her discretion before seeing the advice on Dr. Harley's site. As mentioned, it's such a touchy situation currently where she already has 1 foot out the door. Something like this would push her. It wouldn't exactly be depositing a love credit! LOL She DID choose to come back to me for whatever reason and things seems to have cooled down real quick with OM as far as I could tell. So, I assumed and hoped that she finally made the decision of me over him.



I fear that the above may be untrue in my situation. I am fairly certain that the plan when the WS left me and served me with papers was to give it some time for the Divorce to finalize and the dust to settle. Then, she would start bringing OM around and they would have just suddenly met and fallen madly in love quickly and marriage would follow. I am fairly certain their plan was to marry. I found evidence of her looking up contacts at our local annulment tribunal. We were married in the Catholic church and the OM is Catholic. So, it was pretty telling that she was looking up annulment information before she even served me with Divorce papers. The OM is about 5 years younger than I and has no kids, girlfriend, or wife. So for him it's an "everything to gain, nothing to lose" type of situation for him. I can tell from the evidence that WS has met and spent time with OM's parents. So, they seem to be perfectly fine with what WS and OM are doing. But, I have no idea of what lies (if any) were told to justify things. So, I think the WS is the one that is trying to "have her cake and eat it too" with keeping OM on the sidelines and proceeding with me for long-term plans. I am fairly certain that lies are being told to OM about WS and my relationship.


For the above, I fear the WS decision would be her career! It is her passion, hobby, AND job. I know everyone would say "then you shouldn't be with a wife that feels that way" But, it's complicated with the fragile situation we are in and that probably is a topic for a separate part of the forum.



So for the above, YES I should confront him? But just once and then that's it and all contact is severed? IS what I said good for a quick and brief confrontation dialogue?

I think either way I need to do some more sleuthing and gather more evidence to save before I can proceed with anything. So little is confirmed with evidence at this point.

Hi tech an, welcome to marriage builders. The best advice we can give you is to expose the affair as outlined by Sugarcane. Your wife is going to leave you over the affair unless you do. The longer you wait, the more entrenched it is. DR Harley tells betrayed spouses to expose REGARDLESS of affair status or empty promises made by the wayward. Keeping it secret only serves to enable the affair.

I realize you want to avoid he anger at all cost, but your marriage will not end over her temporary anger over exposure. It will end over an entrenched affair. Our goal is to save your marriage, not to avoid her anger at all cost.

Just understand that those of us here in recovered marriages attribute it to exposure. There is nothing we can do for you if you choose to enable the affair by keeping it secret.

"For the above, I fear the WS decision would be her career! It is her passion, hobby, AND job. I know everyone would say "then you shouldn't be with a wife that feels that way" But, it's complicated with the fragile situation we are in and that probably is a topic for a separate part of the forum. "

Yes, she will choose her career over her marriage as long as the affair is conducted there. This is why exposure is so critical to your success. What topic would be suitable for a different forum? This is just a garden variety workplace affair. We have dealt with thousands from all walks of life, surgeons, pilots, engineers, doctors, secretaries. What do you feel makes your situation unique?

And I should clarify that Sugarcane asked YOU to choose her career or your marriage. What do YOU choose? If you choose to protect her little job, you must sacrifice your marriage. If that is the case, then there will be no possibility for recovery.

Hello MelodyLane,

Thanks for your advice. They are tough words to swallow and I will certainly have to chew on them a bit. But I understand what you are saying and I am thinking that exposure is the only way to go. But then there is the question of the extent of the exposure.


I didn't mean suited for a different forum completely. I mentioned a different PART of this forum. This part is only for advice/help on exposure. So, I said that in an attempt to stay on that topic and not get too far off track into the dynamic of my relationship, why I still want to save our marriage, etc.. as I feel that is for another part of THIS forum.


Very true! I did read that wrong and thought Sugarcane was asking the WS that question and not me. But I must say I am torn on that one. We rely on her career to literally put a roof over our heads and provide medical insurance for our kids. I guess I am just one of those people that always tries to get wine on a beer budget - I want exposure so I can end the affair completely. But, I don't want the repercussions! LOL

I'll continue to gather more evidence and try and work up the courage to do the right thing.

And, I guess I feel my situation is unique due to the following: WS already filed for Divorce and it is currently on a 6 month hold (1 month in) So, she has her "finger on the button" where she can call her lawyer up on a moment's notice and re-activate our Divorce proceedings.

I am forever grateful that she choose to put things on hold and feel that an exposure would be something that would cause her to proceed with the Divorce. She has already threatened several times to resume.

Tech Man,

Do not stray from what Melody Lane and sugarcane are advising you. Five years ago I discovered my husband was having an affair. He threatened me that if I called OW, it would definitely be over between the two of us. I exposed to our side of the family and friends only. I kept the OW's secret which allowed my husband and her to go underground and their affair continued for another five years.

Three weeks ago was DDay #2. This time, I wasn't going to be scared about exposure. I had nothing to lose. He was going to continue seeing her anyway. Besides the same exposure targets I did originally: My family, his family, our children, friends of the marriage, I DID Her workplace, and some of her Facebook friends. Her adopted parents are dead, never married and no siblings. I sent a picture of my husband and I. I only wish I had done this five years ago. If you don't break off and expose the nastiness of their affair, you may be destined to false recoveries like me

Follow Dr Harley's advice. Gather your strength. You are on the road to a divorce anyway unless you expose and give your marriage the best chance you can.

BW

Everybody who comes here thinks their situation is unique.

That's one of the many, many things that is the same about every situation here.

Nonononono...

Purchase Surviving an Affair now. This book contains the entire Marriage Builders program. It has everything you need for recovery or "survival/rebuild mode". It also contains the information you need to even get that far. The other books will lead you astray in an affair situation.

gotcha! You are thinking very short term. If you don't kill the affair, you will be competing with the OM for that salary because you will be DIVORCED. She has more money with which to fight you in a divorce if you don't do everything to kill this affair. So when you choose her job, you are literally sacrificing it ALL. You won't get the benefit of that job in the long term.

Well, I caught WS carrying on electronic conversation with OM again last night. I demanded that this stop already and insisted that she send out a letter to OM and block all communication with him (FB, phone, etc..) She complied but said "Ok, I'll do this. But, I'm talking to my lawyer tomorrow about proceeding with our divorce" So she cut off the communication, but it seems that she may be moving forward with the divorce regardless.

She said OM wasn't the only guy she flirted with recently and that she was trying to draw any attention from any guy she could. Seems like a bad insecurity issue to me. I already told her that I want to meet any and every need she has. I asked to fill out the emotional needs questionnaire. But, she said she is proceeding with the divorce. She said she doesn't love me anymore and doesn't want me trying to fulfill her needs.

So, I am not sure where to go at this point. But, I am praying that she doesn't proceed with the divorce and gives our marriage a chance to rebuild and flourish.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

OK, TechMan...not sure from your thread if you have read SAA or have it or not, but you need to employ a multi-pronged approach, these things are part of "PlanA":
1) Your WW will not give you the tools to meet her needs so you can play the percentages or use what you *think* you know:
a) conversation, affection, family commitment should be pretty safe. Keep the conversation light and interesting, not a lot of heavy relationship talk and no arguing. If is it seeming to head that way, politely excuse yourself.
b) remember back to when you both were in love, what did you do together that created that in love? Do that.

2) Avoid Lovebusters at all costs, again, if you sense that you will lovebust, politely remove yourself from the situation.

3) If WW wants to talk about the divorce, tell her you'll need to find a lawyer and your lawyers can talk about divorce, you'd rather talk about making her happy.

4) Keep snooping covertly, but no longer confront her with this information. SHE KNOWS she's wayward, you don;t need to prove it to her. If it comes up, tell her you want to create a loving affair proof marriage and you want her to join you, then go back to #1. If you DO find evidence, confront the other man directly and expose him without any warning and tell him to stay away from your family. He and your WW will see that you mean business when it comes to protecting your family. This is not up for discussion with the WW or anyone else except the coaches on this board.

5) Don't try to coerce or educate her or make any demands, the only way she is coming back is if she is "lured" back by the prospect of truly achieving that loving marriage. Don't talk about doing it, just do it and don;t expect anything other than her using every despicable means at her disposal to TEST you to see if you mean it. This is not fair, but it is important. Don't allow yourself to fall for any of these test traps, keep with the plan to demonstrate you mean business.

Did you take our advice last time? To whom have you exposed the affair? Have you told their employers? What was their response? Is your wife leaving that job?

People have already spent time giving you advice which you have chosen to ignore because you are afraid. The advice is not going to be different the second time around. You need to read the exposure thread and do a full exposure including her employer or you do not have much hope here.

Did you read MelodyLanes post? Where she points out the fact that you will NOT be living on your WW's salary if she divorces you? She is already planning to file for divorce so this is going to be the reality.

Follow the advice we already gave you!!!

Thanks WalkTheWalk for the constructive advice. I will read up on "Plan A" and follow to the best of my abilities at this point.

To all others: no I have not yet done a full blown exposure. The letter was sent to OM and contact was severed. Yes her immediate supervisor at work knows of the situation and is addressing it. I have not followed-up further on this yet. I don't feel that a full blown exposure is best at this point. All evidence points to her breaking it off completely at this point in time. Dr. Harley said IF a spouse doesn't break of an affair completely to expose. So for now I am going to continue to monitor and confirm. If I find any evidence whatsoever of the affair continuing, then it will be time for a full blown exposure.

People use the phrase "thanks for the consecutive advice" as a way of giving a slap to those who gave advice they did not like. They think they are teaching those other people a lesson, but it is they who will hurt, and sooner rather than later.

You can thank that poster all you like, but it is obvious that he did not read your history and did not realise that your wife and OM work together every day, and that you have not taken the first steps to end the situation.

It's a bit like going to your doctor, being diagnosed with blockages in your blood vessels and told you need an operation. You disappear because you don't want an operation, then later, go to another doctor without telling him your full history - and he doesn't bother to check your full history. He then tells you you need to walk for a mile every day, and you say "thank you for your constructive advice. All the rest of you can pound sand, because I've found a doctor that understands me."

Good luck with that strategy, and with following that advice.

You monitored, and you already found evidence of the affair continuing, just a few days ago. Also, they still work together. Is your plan to monitor and confirm indefinitely that they are still having their affair?